Chance builds

deokkent

Edit: I understand if a mod comes across this thread and want to move it to build/powers sub forum, but i plead they resist the urge to do so. I posted this topic in PvP gameplay because I feel it's more relevant to pvp.

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Horrible builds... Why? Well, depends how lucky/unlucky you are. What the heck is a chance build anyway? Damage control, energy boffs, elachi weapons; all those loveable things that come with chance procs which can potentially decide the fate of the match.

Remember when people were complaining they didn't get a maco/omega drop in STF with over hundred runs prior the reputation system (lucky ones getting it the first day). Or people who had to open 400 lockboxes to get a ship (lucky ones obtaining one with the first 10 lockboxes)?

I have a horrible suspicion that procs work about the same way, along with critical chance RNG affecting some more negatively than others. Take this with a grain of salt, cuz I haven't done any real vigorous testing. But let's be honest, something is fishy if your 3 purple damage control don't proc 2 times in a row, or 3 rare energy doffs (beam overload versions) don't proc twice in a row. Those are high chance proc you know. So yeah...

Any opinions? I'm probably just being paranoid but I appreciate your input.

dahminus

RNG is a harsh mistress that should be tied up and abused...

If theres a chance to fail, it will fall eventually. Such sayeth Murphy and the above Pain in the #$?

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rylanadionysis

This thread pretty much sums up why I use antiproton.

masterkeychnk5

deokkent wrote: »

Edit: I understand if a mod comes across this thread and want to move it to build/powers sub forum, but i plead they resist the urge to do so. I posted this topic in PvP gameplay because I feel it's more relevant to pvp.

---

Horrible builds... Why? Well, depends how lucky/unlucky you are. What the heck is a chance build anyway? Damage control, energy boffs, elachi weapons; all those loveable things that come with chance procs which can potentially decide the fate of the match.

Remember when people were complaining they didn't get a maco/omega drop in STF with over hundred runs prior the reputation system (lucky ones getting it the first day). Or people who had to open 400 lockboxes to get a ship (lucky ones obtaining one with the first 10 lockboxes)?

I have a horrible suspicion that procs work about the same way, along with critical chance RNG affecting some more negatively than others. Take this with a grain of salt, cuz I haven't done any real vigorous testing. But let's be honest, something is fishy if your 3 purple damage control don't proc 2 times in a row, or 3 rare energy doffs (beam overload versions) don't proc twice in a row. Those are high chance proc you know. So yeah...

Any opinions? I'm probably just being paranoid but I appreciate your input.

Well, honestly, I've always said to myself anyway a build based too much on chance is not a solid build.

Doffs:
I always try to prevent the use of Damage Control Doffs for one. Why? You need 2 different copies of EptX, and 3 purples give you a total chance of 92% chance.

The cost on 3 doffs however is very high, and even with that the chance of it failing is still too high for me. Imagine I would use it on my Sci healer, and that EptA doesnt kick in all of the sudden, possibly lower heals and i might not be able to heal someone up enough. Or imagine the EptS doesnt kick in when u need it the most. Boom headshot.

9 of 10 builds there are at least 3 doffs anyway which are pretty much a prerequisite for any (Of my) build, so removing one out of 3 damage controls is unthinkable for me even more then running 3. So yeah so far I found zero of my builds where 3 purple damage controls would actually be the best choice.

I also tried the theory: 2x EptS, 1x EptW, and make sure EptS is always up but EptW more on a chance. Conclusion, it doesnt work. it ****s up the cycle of eptS too and leaving it with a gap, or EptW is getting out of sync when u need it.

Weapons
I honestly don't see why people are making such big discussions on weapon procs. I'm fairly sure that phaser procs are still one of the most powerful ones around when they do occur, but why bother with this low chance. Just pick the weapon you like, who cares. 2.5% per cycle is not 2.5% per shot. Or I might be more picky on my weapons proc.

Weapon Modifiers
You could say the acc vs bonus defense is also quite chancy, so much factors on the field can change it, and all targets have alot of different def values too. Although this is true, I've personally always flew with Acc x3 weaps, and i still do. It will increase the probability of your hit actually landing on the target, and it increases the probability of your crits too. (No hit means no crit, even if its flagged as a crit obviously)

So yeah, my builds are always aimed for the least chance possible, rock solid


Anyway, SOMETIMES a chance effect outweighs the 100% probability you would get otherwise, and its still more viable to go with the chance based factor rather then the solid factor based on how powerful that chance is. 2.5% is nothing, but a free passive that gives you 2.5% per cycle chance to subnuke someone, hell yeah
(Oh i was just giving out an example, im not running special subnuke doffs lol)

Other stuff like the 3% CritH rep thingy, well that is chance ofcourse, but after alot of Target parsing and testing your CritH will flat out and the 3% crit thingy over a long stretched out period is actually no longer chance but more a steady increase in your overall DPS (Logically)

The placate and shield heal procs from the rep system are both chances so yeah, and equal at that too. You have little choice but to pick at least one of them, unless you want to gimp yourself and be a brave little boy
(ofcourse it totally depends on how you play and what you play when you pick your little passive bonusses)

orondis

I generally dislike anything that relies on chance, whether it's lockboxes (only reason I'd open them is for the lobi), doff procs or STF drops.

If it's something like attack pattern cooldown reduction or damage control doffs, I just can't rely on them. Knowing my luck when a bug targets me the damage control doffs will fail and I'll be vapour.

Heck, I've been waiting 2 mins for something to proc, only to have it proc nigh constantly for the next 30 seconds.

I need it to be consistently reliable, not feeling like I've put my life in the hands of a dabo wheel.

masterkeychnk5

orondis wrote: »

I generally dislike anything that relies on chance, whether it's lockboxes (only reason I'd open them is for the lobi), doff procs or STF drops.

If it's something like attack pattern cooldown reduction or damage control doffs, I just can't rely on them. Knowing my luck when a bug targets me the damage control doffs will fail and I'll be vapour.

Heck, I've been waiting 2 mins for something to proc, only to have it proc nigh constantly for the next 30 seconds.

I need it to be consistently reliable, not feeling like I've put my life in the hands of a dabo wheel.

eh, the AP cooldown doffs arent chance, but a fixed value.

khayuung

dahminus wrote: »

RNG is a harsh mistress that should be tied up and abused...

If theres a chance to fail, it will fall eventually. Such sayeth Murphy and the above Pain in the #$?

The build in your sig is... preeetty hilarious I must say. Kinda like a Jedi Shadow tank.

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masterkeychnk5

I dunno wasnt it like 10% chance to proc on a critical hit? Seeing as with every volley you pretty much crit anyway and with the 10 second immunity is pretty much a guaranteed placate every 10+~ seconds on your target (Unless someone else also fires at him and ruins it for you, so he placates instead haha.

lake1771

There are other 'chance' builds that are pretty fun to fly, and rather difficult to make work consistently.

I've a (ship name omitted) I fly unconventionally set up.

I use clusters and immobilizing techniques. two piece breen set. transphasic tac consoles.
I tank, survive, till someone is foolish enough to let two cluster torps catch them at once. Or one hits and crits. pops any bug on a good crit.

Its fun, not horrible at all. Takes a lot of work to survive and jocky my ship around to get a target lined up.

the QQ from a fully kitted out attack ship when it pops from full shields and hull is well worth the half an hour it took to line it up as well as crit.

Don't slip. Its an 'lol' build right up until you're waiting to respawn and crying about a lucky hit. Next thing you know it'll be 5/0 me.

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timezarg

I run a fairly straightforward and probably not too effective BoP build in PvP, with BO and HY torps along with VM and Tractor Beam. Even that build is at least partly reliant on chance for how effective it is, because the critical hits REALLY make a difference. If my BO2/BO3 (depending on which variation of my build I'm running) doesn't crit, it will usually hit for around 15k damage. If the target has one of those ridiculously high-resist shield setups, it can be as low as 9-10k. Not enough to take shields down. Critical hits can ramp up to 35-45k damage for me (others can do better, of course, though they're probably running a more optimal setup that's more expensive, etc). That's almost always enough to take out a shield facing and do hull damage.

The same with my torpedoes. Normal HY3 quantum salvo damage usually takes out anywhere from 1/3-2/3 of target hull, depending on what I'm hitting (cruisers have more hull, etc). Critical hits have been known to take targets from 80% hull to dead.

So you could say I'm relying on a chance build in the sense that it's the critical damage that really makes my build devastating (and that's assuming the torps even hit hull, which is another issue entirely). I just don't have enough umph otherwise to guarantee the target will be destroyed or at least forced onto the defensive. Most of the time I just end up hurting target shields and maybe nicking the hull. Usually good enough if I'm working with 1-2 others.

masterkeychnk5

Well yeah Torps really are chancey too, but still fun

At the end most builds have a chance factor somewhere, even the biggest tank has a chance to blow up against the weakest player, the chance is just very very small. lol

Oh yeah it was 20% huh for that placate

timezarg

masterkeychnk5 wrote: »

Well yeah Torps really are chancey too, but still fun

At the end most builds have a chance factor somewhere, even the biggest tank has a chance to blow up against the weakest player, the chance is just very very small. lol

Oh yeah it was 20% huh for that placate

It's getting to the point where I'm thinking of trying to use cluster torps or straight-up transphasic torps and seeing if I can make it work for me. Would be nice if I had room to throw in a transphasic-boosting tactical console, but I need all three of my console spots for my AP weapons :P

masterkeychnk5

And so you should. No point in torp consoles if you cant even penetrate shield. Trannies are good but since they also nerfed Torp ability stacking even full buffed tvaro tran build with all the possible torp boost shizzles isnt going to do much good against proper buffed targets

Cluster is closest to transphasic viability in terms of efficient killing, but even they rely on the One crit they all crit rule, if they dont crit then forget about taking tanky players out :C well perhaps 40K guys with less then 30/40% resist.