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It's not easy thinking of tourny rules
mimey2
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
In the past I've said I wanted to host a tourny, but never have. I still do, but...I admit, it's difficult to think of a decent set of rules.
Too many rules and people feel it's overly restrictive. Too few, and people will be worried about dealing with excessive amounts of cheese (or some folks might be willing to use said things like cheese/cheap stuff/etc, but don't want it to be known that they use it and thus won't join on that reason).
One thing I did realize: I can't worry about what people actually think about the rules too much.
Let's be honest, if I was to mention any rules I've considered and put them down in this post, people would raise a big ole fuss about it for whatever their reason. So, I've just kept it to 'not too many rules, but not too few', though even that could be argued.
Do note, that if I was to host a tourny, it wouldn't be a No BS tourny. Nothing against Naz or that form of tournament of course, I do think they are great for the community to have those. I just wanna do my own thing.
Also, wouldn't have any association with PvP Bootcamp, though I probably would use the BC Teamspeak, or I'm confident I could find another TS if needed if that wasn't an option. This is entirely my own initiative.
Plus, not a member of any of ya'll's various PvP fleets out there, so nobody needs to worry about that from me.
I admit, this post is basically a big ramble, but I do want to ask:
If I was to host a tourny with a rather different rule set, would folks be interested in it?
I'm not finalized on the rules yet of course. Also, I would need other help in terms of organizing it and all that fun stuff since this is my first tourny, so I don't know that much.
Also, I might write out some of the rules I've been thinking about (again: not finalized). Some of em would be small stuff, some would be rather odd, and so on.
Really, it's more about just seeing if people WANT to do this or not.
Too many rules and people feel it's overly restrictive. Too few, and people will be worried about dealing with excessive amounts of cheese (or some folks might be willing to use said things like cheese/cheap stuff/etc, but don't want it to be known that they use it and thus won't join on that reason).
One thing I did realize: I can't worry about what people actually think about the rules too much.
Let's be honest, if I was to mention any rules I've considered and put them down in this post, people would raise a big ole fuss about it for whatever their reason. So, I've just kept it to 'not too many rules, but not too few', though even that could be argued.
Do note, that if I was to host a tourny, it wouldn't be a No BS tourny. Nothing against Naz or that form of tournament of course, I do think they are great for the community to have those. I just wanna do my own thing.
Also, wouldn't have any association with PvP Bootcamp, though I probably would use the BC Teamspeak, or I'm confident I could find another TS if needed if that wasn't an option. This is entirely my own initiative.
Plus, not a member of any of ya'll's various PvP fleets out there, so nobody needs to worry about that from me.
I admit, this post is basically a big ramble, but I do want to ask:
If I was to host a tourny with a rather different rule set, would folks be interested in it?
I'm not finalized on the rules yet of course. Also, I would need other help in terms of organizing it and all that fun stuff since this is my first tourny, so I don't know that much.
Also, I might write out some of the rules I've been thinking about (again: not finalized). Some of em would be small stuff, some would be rather odd, and so on.
Really, it's more about just seeing if people WANT to do this or not.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.pwlaughingtrendy wrote:I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
Post edited by mimey2 on
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anything else... well its all about flavor and taste.
Do you even Science Bro?
In any case, the pandas would be up for it. Whatever the rules. Cheese, no cheese, all about the pew:)
Advice, keep the rules simple and you should be ok bud
Yep.
You will catch a ton of flak for your rules no matter what, most of it will come directly from players who have never and would never organize anything.
Make your rules.
Keep them relatively simple, straight forward and easy to police and hopefully most reasonable and like-minded players will respond positively.
Some people do not realize how much variables one has to consider, thinking organizing a tourney being a trivial matter. It is not.
Stick to your vision, ignore the hate and trolling, do your initial promotion of your ideas by the means of private teamspeak conversations (the forum is not always the best medium for this) and talk to people with experience in that regard.
Classic rules, ban cheese and done. The idea is make them less restrictive as possible (don't ban ships for example), but be sure that fun is still on the table (no gp, no tif, etc)
Those who argue or cry about rules don't even take part of the tournaments (most of the cases they don't even have a team), you can do a tournament with their rules and they won't play anyway. You can't be democratic with those guys, idiots are made for be ignored.
Bottom line: Set the rules as you see fit. Listen to the feedback, but ignore haters.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Seems everybody in my fleet is either "Not Ready for the Big Show" or "Hates PvP"
While I agree PvP is annoying as a batleth in your back when you're "Not Ready"...
I still found it the best place to learn tricks and hone your skills..
PvE makes everything too easy, and you don't really learn how to maximize your skills and efficiencies..
I have 2 people on my fleet that I managed to convince to try pvp, Was hoping to get a group of 5 or 2 groups of 5 within my fleet..
Still working on it...many are still timid.. and I really can't blame them for feeling underpowered for PvP...
That being said...I'd love to be able to join a PvP tourney..
Can one enter as a single ?
Or must we have a team of 5 to sign up ?
/channel_join tyler durden
Daily there is matches going on. A good place to meet other pvpers and get help. Additionally most fleet tags are left at the door. Much better than hitting the normal queues.
And most tourneys get sep threads to try and help those without a team.
Good luck
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I will try that later tonight
Of course they only really gain momentum when there are super secret Imaginary rules that alienate other fleets or groups for no Clear reason.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
You gotta see the irony in that though. Unclear rules lead to stupid behaviour.....
In this case it was unwritten rules.
Mimey, take note:
People advise what to do but this is something advised not to do, unwritten rules = bad for pew pew
http://www.nenedeantes.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/The-Village-People-YMCA-300x288.jpg
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
So, it's just easier not to worry about it.
Though I do wish there was a way to ban some other stuff that isn't so easy to ban. I primarily mean the rep Placate which I think is more than just a 'little' annoying to deal with.
Anywho, gonna post some rules and other non-rule stuff I've been thinking about just for feedback. Nothing is finalized, but how would I know anyone's thoughts if I never said anything?
1. No elite fleet gear (fleet eng and sci consoles would be allowed, all advanced fleet gear is allowed)
Reason: Aside from getting rid of the pesky elite pets that are an annoyance to deal with, like Yellowstones for example, it gets rid of Elite Fleet shields, which just offer way too much of an advantage IMO compared to any other shield nowadays with pretty much no drawbacks.
(though I will admit that a 'blanket' might be a tad too much, but again, not finalized of course)
2. No EWP or Theta
Reason: It disappears. Yes people see it always, yes some people don't see it. I don't believe it's a 'graphics card' problem. I simply don't think it fair that folks can get stuck in something they may not honestly know is there. (If that wasn't an issue, I'd have no problem with EWP or Theta)
3. GPG and TIF would be allowed, but in return, you have to give up one (1) player on your team for each copy of either ability you use.
So if you ran with GPG, you give up one person. Or if you run with TIF, you give up one person. Run with one of each, you give up 2. Or run with 2 copies of one of those abilities, and you give up two people as well.
Reason: Sure most of us consider those both mega-level cheese, so I figured, if someone REALLY wants to run it, they just have to be willing to give up a player on their team for it, and all the stuff they could've brought. Plus it is self-limiting: You could only bring up to 3 copies of GPG/TIF; anymore, and you would lose out on having enough ships to even SLOT more GPG/TIF. On top of that, it wouldn't be a spam fest of the same ability at three copies, you couldn't have 3 GPG because you would be down to 2 ships and couldn't slot the third GPG in the first place, so at most you would have 2 GPG and 1 TIF, or 2 TIF and 1 GPG.
(On a side note, I was thinking about possibly applying this rule to other things, but only if I actually have this rule in the first place)
4. No more than 3 of the same captain type.
Reason: This is a fairly 'standard' rule from most tourneys, and is one I highly agree with.
5. Limited amount of BO DOFFs and elachi weapons
Reason: Yes, the BO DOFF's debuff thing can be cleared with TT, but nothing also stops a team from simply SNBing someone, including a TT and then just using BO for the bleed through bonus for a team's entire focus-fire. Limiting Elachi weapons reduces that chance of the super-huge hit going right for a full hit against hull that can't really be avoided or resisted against so easily.
6. No restrictions on ships
Reason: Easy one. I just don't think it's fair to limit someone simply because of a ship choice.
7. No Valdore console
Reason: This one would be tough to enforce since it is a passive console. But I just think it is WAY too good for what it does. On a similar note...
8. No Plasmonic Leech
Reason: I think folks have gotten a bit too used to having so much free power for only a console slot. I have no actual issue with the console. (though of all the things here, this is probably the least likely to become an actual rule due to the Tyken's changes on Tribble atm.)
9. New builds would be highly encouraged.
Reason: This one goes out to the DPS folks who've recently hopped into PvP. I think it'd be one hell of a show just to change things up. Not to mention anyone else who had some different ideas running through their minds that they might want to try.
Plus...maybe...possibly, some folks wanna make a full D'kora premade, I'd...y'know, give my blessing for that. *cough*
10: Joke rules. I've thought of a few pointless rules that would have no effect on the actual tournament. For example, "To participate in the tournament, you must sign up for the tournament."
I think that's good for now. I do have a couple other things for tourney-running I wanted to mention:
1. What are some 'punishments' that have been doled out in the past for when people have broken the rules in a tournament? I mean, actual breaking of rules, not some of the...issues, we've had in the past few months.
2. I don't have a clue what to name this thing if it happens.
3. No prizes unfortunately, aside from the glory of winning. If anyone wants to donate, it'd be appreciated. But I don't want an entry fee for the tourney since I'd rather not limit folks simply because they don't wish to spend EC on it.
And finally...
I can use the color button too, people. :P
And Elachi weapons aren't really problematic, IMO. You gotta be really, really lucky with those.
Rest looks A-OK!
Well, as I mentioned at the top of my post Scurry, this is just some of the rules I've thought of, it's not a finished list by any stretch. The EMP Burst being broken probably would be on the final list for sure. (I love my D'kora, but broken is broken, I won't deny it)
I'm a tad on the fence about Elachi weapons. Sure there will be the ultra-rare insta-vape of a lucky BO shot from a DBB once in a blue moon. A bit annoying to die to, but rare enough to not be an issue.
If memory serves, the Elachi proc is a per-hit roll I think. So every single hit from a weapon rolls a chance to proc it. With even 2 DHCs and a DBB firing normally from two ships, that proc can happen more often than you think. Plus with people easily able to obtain very good damage pretty much all the time, so if they are focus firing on someone, and it procs even on a normal hit, it's gonna hurt pretty badly.
But again, on the fence about em.
The only rule is that you may only use mark X white gear. nothing else.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Sure does sound simple, and catchy, but how the heck do you enforce that? :P
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
thats a valid question. i suppose it would become obvious when someone used an ability we all know is console or set bonus originated, or has WTFHIGH hull on a ship that starts with 30, or something.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Still, the Elachi proc does have that 5-second lockout, which makes things a little better. But yeah, it's a bit of an on-the-fence thing.
Yes it's per-hit, but it has a 5s lockout.
Honestly my parsings with these are inconclusive, and I sometimes wish I hadn't spent 60 mil on a set.
- White Mk X items, Stock ships...
Sounds interesting, does this include any consoles that may come with the ship ?
What about a mobius for example, who uses both temporal consoles..
I could see Temporal Backstep being somewhat advantageous.
Sounds Fair.
The Elachi Disruptors in general...have you ever wondered if Cryptic was trolling the players with them?
No actual Disruptor proc - just the Elachi proc - a proc tied to the weapon itself - a proc that locks out other Elachi weapons. Tada, Elachi Turrets.
It's as if they looked at the Phaser proc and said let's make a Disruptor one - without the Disruptor proc itself while ignoring the weapon itself as far as the damage goes...something that doesn't matter with the Phaser proc since DBB or Turret, it's a Phaser proc - not a damage related proc.
No lockout...too powerful...but I wonder if they considered a per weapon lockout to be too powerful as well or perhaps just too cumbersome on the system to track.
All in all, it cries out/screams out for some kind of change to the proc...to make it not so...er...yeah...
Given they've got it tied into the Heavy Crescent Wave Cannon (Lobi Store, Elachi set) and Crescent Wave Cannon (Lockbox Ship, S'golth) - I'm surprised they haven't done something about that yet...
@mimey, as for the rules - if nobody shows up at all, then there might be an issue. If only one guy shows up, declare him (or her) the winner...TRIBBLE the rest.
On the one hand, yeah in general I agree. It seems to be another weapon that is very swingy in it's performance even though we keep being told they don't want things to be too swingy in performance...
The main reason i stick with disruptors of all stripes though is that I've already invested in the consoles (for my ResB set) and we continually seem to get new weapons fueled by those consoles.
So while the Elachi turrets may be awful, you can freely combine (fore elachi weapons) them with Standard Disruptor Turrets, nanite dis turrets, pol/dis turrets.
It's the troll potential out there - somebody sporting Elachi Turrets potentially removes your investment...leaving you with your damage boosted weapons, but at the loss of any of the other Disruptor related procs.
As for the other Disruptor weapons, I've got to do more testing - but it looks like when they fixed the "double" Disruptor issue - they removed Disruptor stacking. Used to stack the Disruptor procs from multiple Disruptor Arrays on two of my guys (Nanite, Polarized, Hybrid) - after the fix, they started overwriting the Breach aspect (even with the Nanites which applies the single dual proc debuff rather than two individual debuffs from their dual procs - the change in damage resistance reflects overwriting rather than stacking).
But speaking of the Elachi Turrets - there's a good weapon to ban from tourneys!
No rep/fleet/lockbox/lobi gear (basic white mk x stuff only)
No universal consoles
Pretty much no 'extra' anything else you can think of.
Only basic tier 5 or C-store ships allowed.
That kinda thing. Didn't do it since I was wondering if people would actually be willing to give up all their goodies and extras that have been added over time.
Would also give the players a new appreciation for all the end game gear we've/they've bought, and have gotten "used to" over time..
I barely even think about all the "goodies" Ive bought, after a while, you lose the wow factor on all the gear you've bought..
I think going back to basics once in a while would be a healthy excerise in appreciation for all the hard work you've put into the game.
I did, actually, chuckle out loud at this. (ChoL?).
That should be your sig, and it's funny because it's true.
Breen Cryonic Cluster Torpedos launch a single fragile torpedo that will drop a series of automatic mines. When a hostile target gets close, the mines will activate and chase the target (leaving a cryonic trail behind them, which applies a cryonic debuff to any who pass through it) before detonating with a heavy cold damage blast and applying a cryonic debuff).
The debuff causes temperatures on the ship to plummet and will cause a recharge penalty on all abilities as both Captain and Crew are forced to wear mittens...
In all seriousness, regarding the QA department - I'm not sure that anybody can expect them to keep up with the rate of everything that's being added - just don't see how that's a fair expectation. Beyond that, not everything that a player or even group of players is necessarily broken to Cryptic - it could be working exactly as intended...folks may just not like that.
Which ties into many of the squabbles over items allowed or disallowed in various rules discussions for tourneys...