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Request for a Bird of Prey 3-Pack
breadandcircuses
Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
Hi everyone. I'm not entirely sure if I'm posting this in the right location, but I started along this line of thought in the Birds of Prey need a buff thread... and it seemed like an interesting exercise. Possibly in futility, but interesting anyway. So, here is my suggestion and request for a new Bird of Prey 3-Pack for the C-Store. 
These stats would still leave the BoP 3-pack squishier than the Andorian Escorts but a bit faster and capable of using a Battle Cloak. At the same time, they would be the less agile and less adaptable than traditional BoPs, but hardier and capable of mounting a full weapon, console and boff setup. In addition, the 3-Piece Set Bonus from equipping the consoles from all three ships would allow it to fill in as a Vesta equivalent for the KDF, albeit with greater flexibility and lower Auxiliary power and somewhat less fancy console powers.
So, what I'm looking for is whether you like the design and whether it seems like something viable without being another glorious example of power creep. The idea here is to keep the BoP a capable jack-of-all-trades ship, while also bringing it into decent parity with the current state of Federation and Romulan top-tier C-Store ships.
So... thoughts?
breadandcircuses wrote: »Basic Stats
Hull: 27500
Shield Modifier: .88
Fore Weapons: 5*
Aft Weapons: 2
Crew: 65
Device Slots: 2
Base Turn: 19
Impulse Modifier: .2
Universal Bridge Officer Seating: 2 Lt Commander, Lieutenant
Battle Cloak
+15 Weapons Power
*The fifth fore weapon slot may only be filled with a Burst Disruptor Dual Beam Bank, though the other fore weapon slots may accommodate additional Burst Disruptor Dual Beam Banks.
Burst Disruptor Dual Beam Bank [Acc] [CrtH]x2: Combining several experimental technologies, these weapons are unique to this ship and are only compatible with its systems. They discharge a volley of five pulses in approximately half the time it takes to discharge a standard dual beam bank. The strobe effect that results from this not only offers a unique visual display, but also provides improved accuracy. This comes at the cost of higher drain on the ships systems when firing, however, and increases the time between volleys. In game terms, these fire 5 pulses for approximately 80% damage per pulse of a standard dual beam bank, in half the discharge time and an increased cycling time, resulting in identical base DPS. They receive an innate Accuracy bonus of +2.5% and Critical Hit Chance bonus of 1%, in addition to other modifiers, and drain -12 Weapon Power when firing other weapons. They fire from the wingtip cannons, which pivot to match the direction of fire.
Tactical
Consoles: 2 Engineering, 3 Science, 5 Tactical
Assigned Bridge Officer Seating: Commander Tactical
Universal Console - Enhanced Fire Control System: Passive. This console alters the behavior of Fire at Will when used with the Burst Disruptor Dual Beam Bank. First, the system automatically designates your currently locked target as the priority target; put another way, you will always fire at your locked target even when Fire at Will is active, with additional attacks being determined randomly and without an increase in the maximum number of targets for Fire at Will. This does not affect weapons other than the Dual Disruptor Burst Bank. Second, this console will also reduce the global and duplicate ability cooldown of Fire at Will to 15 seconds, bringing its cooldown in line with other weapon special attacks. This portion applies to Fire at Will itself, therefore could potentially affect other weapons. May only be used on these ships.
Engineering
Consoles: 4 Engineering, 2 Science, 4 Tactical
Assigned Bridge Officer Seating: Commander Engineering
Universal Console - Cloaking Distribution Module: Passive. This console alters the standard cloaking behavior by redistributing Shield power to Auxiliary, rather than actually disabling shields. This will allow the ship to retain shield power during the initial stages of cloaking, and increase stealth when fully cloaked. Any Shield power level increases applied after cloaking will be redistributed as well, allowing the potential for shields to "flicker" back up until that power is distributed away from shields. Power returns back to its normal settings at the usual power distribution rate upon leaving cloak, rather than "snapping" back up; this leaves the ship more vulnerable than under normal circumstances for a few seconds after dropping out of cloak. May only be used on these ships.
Science
Consoles: 2 Engineering, 4 Science, 4 Tactical
Assigned Bridge Officer Seating: Commander Science
[EDIT] Universal Console - Emergency Holographic Recovery Teams: Active. Self. A multiple redundant system of holo-emitters dispersed throughout the ship allow for a large number of holographic crew to be deployed temporarily throughout the ship. These holographic teams immediately set to work responding to emergency conditions present, clearing Engineering and Science debuffs and status effects over a period of 20 seconds. During this same period, Crew is automatically recovered at an accelerated rate, crew injury and death is prevented, and minor shield and hull heal-over-time effects are applied. This can be used while cloaked, but this also prevents any shield recovery. Modified by Starship Hull Repair (hull HoT) and Starship Shield Emitters (shield HoT). In game terms, this applies the effects of fully trained Engineering Team I and Science Team I, with the heals spread into 20 sec heals-over-time and an additional Crew Recovery effect. May only be used on this ship. [EDIT]
Console Set Bonuses
2-Piece Set Bonus: Isometric Pulse Warhead: Active. Attack Modifier. This modifies the next torpedo fired to detonate in a 5km burst, applying an Electrical damage over time effect with a large penalty to Perception and Accuracy over a base duration of 10 seconds. Modified by Starship Weapons Training, Starship Projectile Weapons, Starship Particle Generators, and Starship Projectile Weapons Specialization (damage); and Starship Countermeasure Systems (duration). It is resisted by Electrical Damage Resistance % (damage) and Starship Sensors (duration).
3-Piece Set Bonus: Combat Auxiliary Systems: Passive. All energy weapons now use Auxiliary Subsystem Power to determine damage output, and drain Auxiliary Subsystem Power when firing with other weapons. In addition, Beam Overload divides its power drain between Weapons and Auxiliary Subsystem Power; this reduces the immediate impact on damage output, but potentially affects the [Amp] effect from the ship's Warp Core. The benefits to Beam Overload only apply if used with the Burst Disruptor Dual Beam Bank. This does NOT reallocate the ship's innate +15 Weapons Power or the Weapons Subsystem Energy Drain resistance bonuses from sources such as the Systems Engineer duty officer Marion Frances Dulmar.
These stats would still leave the BoP 3-pack squishier than the Andorian Escorts but a bit faster and capable of using a Battle Cloak. At the same time, they would be the less agile and less adaptable than traditional BoPs, but hardier and capable of mounting a full weapon, console and boff setup. In addition, the 3-Piece Set Bonus from equipping the consoles from all three ships would allow it to fill in as a Vesta equivalent for the KDF, albeit with greater flexibility and lower Auxiliary power and somewhat less fancy console powers.
So, what I'm looking for is whether you like the design and whether it seems like something viable without being another glorious example of power creep. The idea here is to keep the BoP a capable jack-of-all-trades ship, while also bringing it into decent parity with the current state of Federation and Romulan top-tier C-Store ships.
So... thoughts?
I do not like Geko ether.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Post edited by breadandcircuses on
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Also on the consoles, love the eng one, tac one is okay (not sure about dropping the FAW to 15 seconds but love the concept of 'stay on target'), but the sci one makes me cringe. A 'take away all possible defenses' console just begs to cheese-based builds and leaves the target with no form of defense, and undefendable stuff always causes problems (look at the initial-release Elachi console). It'd be very effective, but where's the fun for the target if they're getting killed by something they can't do anything about?
I wouldn't underestimate the difference of 4500 base hull points; the Andorian "glass cannons" still get about 1/6 (16.36%) more hull, and don't do silly things like drop their shields to escape combat. Honestly, the 5/2 was an intentional attempt to help the BoP catch up to the Kumari, though forcing one of those to be the "this ship only" weapon and another a torp (to utilize the 2-piece) was an intentional attempt to mitigate that level of craziness. Unlike the Kumari, you can't get everything out of a pure energy build.
This is a very good point about the Science console. While I'd envisioned it being removed by Science Team, until they remove the GCD between the Team abilities they tend to exclude each other in most viable builds. It is definitely beyond what I was aiming for. Even though the power itself doesn't apply any status effects, I can see your point about making everything else stupidly powerful by potentially wiping out resistances.
[EDIT] So, how about something like the Emergency Holographic Recovery Teams instead? It occurred to me that since cheese is the source of so many issues, why not go the exact opposite direction and provide a counter to that cheese rather than adding to it? Note that while it is similar to the Fermion Field of the Vesta-class MSSV console, it trades the AoE healing and Particle Generators buff for an anti-cheese capability and some crew recovery. Thoughts on this? [EDIT]
Oh, and the Tac console does not drop the cooldown of FAW to 15 seconds, it drops the global and duplicate ability cooldowns to 15 seconds. Basically, it would let you run 2 copies of FAW at the same cycle you can run 2 copies of BO, CRF, CSV, THY or TS.
nice,love them,though i think that sci console is dangerously close to the scimitar console,people may cry about it.But other than that,a well thought out and practical idea.(nudges cryptic)
+1
Flagship - N.C.C.-99635-A U.S.S. Asterion
I support playable Typhoon class!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I did make the Eng console similar to the Tulwar's Singularity Distributer Unit, true, but I intentionally made it inferior in two distinct ways:
1) Your shields will still drop, they just take longer to do so.
2) Your shields will take longer to recover coming out of cloak than would normally be the case, making it somewhat higher risk.
I wanted to make this feel KDF, if you get what I mean, so I designed it to have similar results while having a practical source for this benefit. I also made sure that it created an additional mechanic to adapt to, rather than the no-cost/always-on shields and stealth bonus. Note that with the 3-piece set bonus, you also get an Auxiliary overcap coming out of cloak, but if in an Aux-based Attack preset you should be overcapped anyway. As a result, you are unlikely to have increased stealth relative to your normal power settings.
If you did actually mean the Sci console... that first idea really was not good, as reginamala78 pointed out. My [EDIT] proposal you see now was actually meant as an anti-cheese version of the Vesta's Fermion Field, as I noted above.
When you are cloaked you can't normally shoot, and your shields go down; therefore, you should modify your Power Preset 3 or 4 to be 15/15/85/85... and change to this power setting right after you cloak. That way you move faster and are harder to detect while you are trying to hide, and don't have power assigned to systems that aren't active anyway. Just be sure to go back to your normal Power Preset before leaving cloak, or you are going to be toothless and fragile.
Naturally this doesn't apply to the Scimitar 3-pack...
R.I.P
This legendary and iconic breed of Star Trek ships needs better representation in these times.
We already have that one!
it fires under cloak since when it that possible ?
It has been possible for some time now.
However, take note that it can only fire projectile weapons (torpedoes & mines) while cloaked and when it does it decloaks-fires-cloaks again automatically in the range of 3 seconds. It can also spam science abilities while cloaked same as the projectiles.
It's the same with the Romulan T'Varo. Both ships have 'Enhanced Battlecloak' that allows them to do this.
And also the Romulan Scimitar has a special console that allows it to fire energy weapons for some 15 secs. while remaining cloaked.
aha I usually use 3 dhc + 1 photon torp forward, and rear 2 turrets! So to make full use of the enhanced cloak an full projectile build is preferable then r?
That 3-second "flicker" can be a problem with high rate-of-fire torpedoes like Photons. To make full use of the Enhanced Battle Cloak, you need high damage torpedoes and to time your torpedo special attacks to double-tap. Basically, you are trying to hit as hard as possible in as short a window as possible... then fade away from your target before they can respond and forcibly decloak you if they are still alive. Mine drops can also be good for this, but they can also leave you within range of a Charged Particle Burst (among many other things). Adding offensive Science abilities to this can also help significantly.
This post does a decent job of explaining how to use a BoP against other players... as well as the limitations you face in doing so. Part of my request/proposal for a new BoP 3-pack is that the Battle Cloak no longer justifies the reduced hull, reduced shields, reduced number of weapons and reduced boff or consoles slots of the Bird of Prey category of ships... and I just don't see us getting a revamp of ships that were already paid for. Tactical Carrier Warbird Retrofit aside. I apologize for my pessimism. :P
In all practicality, though, for most PvE purposes you are going to be better off just staying decloaked, shielded, and maintaining a stream of DHC's + Photons... or Hyper Plasmas if you have the Romulan Reputation unlocked. With either, a single torpedo and 3 Projectile Weapons Officers (Very Rare, Rare minimum) will keep a good rate of fire.
Personal opinion, which may not represent the opinions of Cryptic, players that only play a single faction, or anyone other than me: That "and" bit back there is rather excessive under current battlefield conditions. Plus... I want something other than the Bortasqu' 3-pack for the KDF, darn it.
That being said I wouldn't expect any kind of packs or anything like feds or romulans get because not enough of the player base plays the faction that we love to play so we aren't important enough.
Edit: Although I do remember something being said about they no longer want it to be an issue about this faction gets this or that but the problem with the KDF hasn't changed so until they make it where that is not the problem anymore the fact of how the KDF is handled isn't going to change just because they want to change how people look at the situation.
If you invested in a C-Store ship Fedside when you started out Pre-LoR... making a second Fed character got you access to that ship, making a KDF character gets you access to nada. Care to take a guess which folks favored?
Post-LoR there is a more level playing field in terms of starting faction and progression content... but there are more ships, species, and fleets on the Fed side. Care to take a guess which folks still favor?
It is what it is, no more, no less. The KDF has less players, so less gets invested in the KDF, so the KDF has less players. Chicken and the egg, and whatnot. Ultimately, all we can do is ask; it's up to the devs whether we get another ship... or a new 3-pack as I optimistically requested. Regardless, I enjoy my time playing each faction.
Yeah many of the long term KDF players offered similar or exact proposals for that ever since the ferasans and bortasqu' were put into the game. Unfortunately they feel they have lost money on the bortasqu' and won't ever release another. When they say they lost money what they mean is that they made something that was very poor quality but compared to the ody pack and then expected to make as much money off the bortasqu' that the ody made.
Yeah people have been asking for 3 years or more and it hasn't happened and more than likely will never happen. Being KDF hasn't changed that much I am inclined to get into something else since this game overall is losing its momentum to hold me in as a player.
((*edit* I want the K'vort to be a 5 fore ship))
[/SIGPIC]
I was reading the responses in this thread....like for example...they don't put 5/3 weapons on the ship....don't add to the power of the ships.
I hate to brake the bubble of stupidity...but I am wondering if people even notice that even the best Klingon ships are weaker then all other ships.
Like on the federation side I can get my cloaked ship with 5 weapons in the front 4 in the back....have more console slots <10> and more device slots <4>......sooo....not trying to be mean but I guess i have to....
Its just simple to be able to see the Klingon ships underperform a lot.....and their highest tier 5 ships are kind of bad....less hull and shield strength...and yet they don't even get a battle cloak most of them. And if they are not Klingon they don't have a cloak at all....which makes it even more silly because the aligned race ships seam to be weak as heck too.
Its the little things...like the bad turn radius...or the not many weapon slots....or not many console slots.
On the marauder ships...for me its been the lack of weapon slots...and the no increased device slots....and the number of officers you can use still being low...
I mean you are already penalized with a small crew compliment....so your repair of your ship and shields is already penalized heavily....also the time to use your powers is also impaired greatly......I keep wondering if people play this game.....or theory craft all day with out actually knowing why the ships don't perform well.
If it where me though....instead of coming out with more ships...I would instead implement a system to let players enhance and upgrade what they have....but go figure....cryptic like the throw away your old ship concept a lot more for some reason.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
=^_^=
- Judge Aaron Satie
oh of course the feds need a bop.
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As well they can always roll Rom to get the best BoP experience.
R.I.P
R.I.P
The Klingons do not bring enough to STO.
The past decades of marketing info by the owners of the franchise has proven this time and time again.
Unfortunately we are seen as a die hard loyal fanbase that is no where near an economic cash source as strong as the fans of the federation.
Why else do you think the new 1-20 levels of the KDF where refered to as a "labor of love" by the Devs?
Check that statement again, Labor of Love... Some Devs had to like the KDF or the new levels would not have happened because one does not labor well on something they do not love.
We are easily set aside because we do not make them lots of money. Thats the simple truth.
R.I.P
Yes I admit I for example purchased a bunch of fersan bridge crew and have been working on changing all my doffs to fersans as well....as an example character.
I suppose there are not that many players that do that sort of thing.
In a way I can understand the money issues with specific race groups and thus no extra ships......Cryptic's folly was making it so areas in the game are closed off to factions....they should have learned to never do that in games...the more divide you have on groups the less likely players will play together....and the less likely the game will continue to infinite.
I noticed they tried to not do that with romulans....but they still have the entire federation versus Klingons thing.....
I guess they failed to remember how the fan favored episodes in star trek went.....the federation didn't fight the Klingons over shermans planet using combat(since they could not due to the organian peace treaty).....they fought by competing to see who could develop the planet more efficiently.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
=^_^=