Re-balancing the 'Need/Greed' rolls

predcon

There are two methods that are infinitely better than the current 'equipment grab' microgame, which seems to be designed around players actually being polite to each other.

The first is to apply a 'Diminishing Returns' effect to each successive 'Need' roll, which would cap the player's maximum roll score at a lower and lower number, until the player gets the idea and doesn't spam the 'Need' button anymore, and takes a few 'Greed', or even 'Pass' rolls (if the player is that hard up for EC, there's always repeatable Patrol and/or Foundry missions, the latter of which seem to drop more loot).

The second, more simple method would be to eliminate 'Need/Greed' entirely, and just display it as 'Want/Do Not Want'.

starswordc

Additional suggestion: Give modifiers to the roll based on PC level relative to the item in question. So, for example, a Vice Admiral (50) would roll poorer on Mk IV gear than a Lieutenant Commander (25), and vice versa on Mk XII gear. This would make characters more likely to get gear they can actually use.

ursusmorologus

Here's a simple mechanic: Keep a tally of the number of rolls since the player last won an item. Whenever the user clicks the "need" button, add the running tally to the current roll value. If the user clicks "greed" or "pass" simply increment the tally. If the user wins the lottery, reset the runnng tally to zero.

The result is "Passing" frequently will cause your bonus score to continually rise, giving you incrementally better chance at winning a "need". Clicking "greed" often will result in more frequent wins, but your "need" bonus will also remain low.

marshalericdavid

I personally think only someone who did damage to something should get loot from what was destroyed. If something was destroyed and no one did any damage to it they should not have a chance at any drops.

starswordc

marshalericdavid wrote: »

I personally think only someone who did damage to something should get loot from what was destroyed. If something was destroyed and no one did any damage to it they should not have a chance at any drops.

Awesome! That would certainly solve the problem of AFK loot farming.

rylanadionysis

just randomize everything

markhawkman

rylanadionysis wrote: »

just randomize everything

My personal favorite of the loot distribution systems that the game has is "Round Robin". In Round Robin, the game cycles between players so that everyone gets something. It's still luck whether you get the purples, but at least you don't have to deal with those annoying need/greed text boxes... Ugh... I hate those. Missions proceed so much smoother when you don't need to bother with those worthless things.

But I digress.... The key flaw with need/greed is that there is no downside to clicking Need. One Idea that I've heard in the past was to make it so people had "need points". You start the match with 3. Each time you click "Need" it costs 3. You get 1 Need point each time you click on either greed or pass.

cryptkeeper0

Just make the loot separate drops where you only see and pick up drops for you...

markhawkman

cryptkeeper0 wrote: »

Just make the loot separate drops where you only see and pick up drops for you...

There's an option for that too. I think it's called "Free for all". But... I'm not sure if you can change the loot system used for STFs at all. In regular teamups, the team leader can set the loot style.

dknight0001

My adjustment is simple.

Make Need Bind it to the Character, and make it worth 0 EC.

Greed means you can sell it on the exchange or to a Vendor. Need means I intend to equip it right now.

Oh and this change would see people whinging for weeks about everybody still hitting need on everything and the people who don't read patch notes complaining their loot is bugged. But after awhile I think the guy hitting Need on Tac console will be the guy using that flavour of weapons.

markhawkman

dknight0001 wrote: »

My adjustment is simple.

Make Need Bind it to the Character, and make it worth 0 EC.

Greed means you can sell it on the exchange or to a Vendor. Need means I intend to equip it right now.

Oh and this change would see people whinging for weeks about everybody still hitting need on everything and the people who don't read patch notes complaining their loot is bugged. But after awhile I think the guy hitting Need on Tac console will be the guy using that flavour of weapons.

MMM..... that would be a delicious nerdrage session.

doffingcomrade

Except for the problem where a lot of the stuff is needed for an alt, because items only drop for characters you're not currently using: The surest way to guarantee an item never drops is to play the character that actually needs it.

Plus, it's an additional annoyance. The current system is far more ignorable since you can now just bind the stupid thing into your regular mashing button and completely ignore it. The last thing we need is for people to have to deal with the distraction of figuring out what do with an item in the middle of a battle.

reximuz

Rolling on loot in space combat is a pain, and most of it is vendor trash anyhow.

I'd like to see them yank the current loot system entirely and do what Turbine has done with Lord of the Rings Online, which has introduced an 100% auto-loot system. They also have an open tapping system, but I'm think open tapping already exists in STO.

How it works is when a mob dies it auto-grants all the members loot right to their bag, and there is also a 50 slot overflow bag that will auto-delete anything left in it for more than an hour of game time.

sussethrai

One problem with insta-loot is that for example in Cure (ground), one of our team members is very good at soloing Armek. To do this, he uses a lot of static grenades, and usually requests that the team pass on grenades so he can use them. Our team is usually happy to do this, as we steamroller Armek almost every time within a minute or two with this method. Auto-loot, since the grenades are bound on pickup, would mean we can't give them to the team member who can use them most effectively in this scenario.

I would be okay with, once the scenario has completed, auto-loot on any unclaimed items.

thunderfoot

marshalericdavid wrote: »

I personally think only someone who did damage to something should get loot from what was destroyed. If something was destroyed and no one did any damage to it they should not have a chance at any drops.

dknight0001 wrote: »

My adjustment is simple.

Make Need Bind it to the Character, and make it worth 0 EC.

Greed means you can sell it on the exchange or to a Vendor. Need means I intend to equip it right now.

Oh and this change would see people whinging for weeks about everybody still hitting need on everything and the people who don't read patch notes complaining their loot is bugged. But after awhile I think the guy hitting Need on Tac console will be the guy using that flavour of weapons.

I play STFS for Marks and BNPs only. But I have to admit I really like the way Y'All are thinking.

markhawkman

sussethrai wrote: »

One problem with insta-loot is that for example in Cure (ground), one of our team members is very good at soloing Armek. To do this, he uses a lot of static grenades, and usually requests that the team pass on grenades so he can use them. Our team is usually happy to do this, as we steamroller Armek almost every time within a minute or two with this method. Auto-loot, since the grenades are bound on pickup, would mean we can't give them to the team member who can use them most effectively in this scenario.

I would be okay with, once the scenario has completed, auto-loot on any unclaimed items.

this is a great example of how need/greed is supposed to work.

When people use it right it works great.

IF they use it right.

khayuung

N/G is broken because nothing is Bind on Pickup. And you're still never going to completely deter ninjas.

I'd much rather if something drops, everyone in the team gets something of the same quality, though the item would be different for each person.

jetwtf

Just eliminate it altogether and use either an auto roll or "round robin". If you win you either claim or pass. If you pass it goes to the next person in the list or the person that rolled the next highest. Round Robin is most fair because everyone gets something with no "chance" except the item and quality. Ive rolled need everytime and got not 1 win enough so now i dont even bother unless its a purple drop.

And drops should only go to those who did damage to the target, if you are killing things off to the side by yourself you are the only one getting those drops, if you are AFK you get none. This is even more fair alongside a "round robin" You get drops from what you killed with no help, you share drops with everyone if there is assistance in the kill, you get NO drops if you do not help.

Once a system like that is in place do not show the drops to the whole group, only the 1 person being offered the drop can see it. This avoids arguments and jealousy when you dont know what everyone else recieved and they do not kow what you recieved.

gypsyblade

Or do what Cryptic did when they made City of Heroes...

Everyone is on their own loot table reward... everyone has a chance to get a drop from an enemy... its put right into your inventory... simple.. no fuss.. no drama...

doffingcomrade

jetwtf wrote: »

And drops should only go to those who did damage to the target

This proposal severely penalizes healers and other support roles that do not damage many targets, while rewarding "sprayers" who essentially tag every target with random stray shots without actually being effective.

sussethrai wrote: »

One problem with insta-loot is that for example in Cure (ground), one of our team members is very good at soloing Armek. To do this, he uses a lot of static grenades, and usually requests that the team pass on grenades so he can use them. Our team is usually happy to do this, as we steamroller Armek almost every time within a minute or two with this method.

It sounds to me like you guys are a private group. A private group is able to actually set the loot policy in the team window, although due to various bugs in the system, it can refuse to stick. Our group runs FFA Oldschool Ninja Looting when we can, specifically to avoid any and all hassles associated with annoying popups.

jetwtf

doffingcomrade wrote: »

This proposal severely penalizes healers and other support roles that do not damage many targets, while rewarding "sprayers" who essentially tag every target with random stray shots without actually being effective.

Then outgoing healing applied to ships doing damage. But still even a healer has weapons and can use them lol.

markhawkman

jetwtf wrote: »

Then outgoing healing applied to ships doing damage. But still even a healer has weapons and can use them lol.

Yeah it's very rare to see a ship so heavily invested in ehaling that it never shoots at things....

doffingcomrade

Maybe, but without lots of shooty-skills, it's capable of lobbing plinks at maybe one thing, before the entire swarm is then mowed down in FAW and CSV. That means it gets to loot ONE target, at best, if anything. Lots of healboats are pretty slow-moving ships. Since healing demands a high aux-focus, a healboat may, at best, be carrying a few torpedoes, which it is too slow to bring to bear quickly, and will take even longer for the torpedoes to arrive, by which time the target may have already exploded.

As such, it is VERY much possible for a healboat to never land a single hit on anything but something large and bricklike, such a Gateway, which will drop nothing.

jetwtf

I call BS on that. Beam arrays, turrets. If you go all torp then you would still have turrets or beam arrays in aft plus maybe mines unless you are a fool and should quit the game now. A whole lot of ways one can do atleast some damage to multiple targets, Target enemy, shoot, target friendly and heal toggle back to enemy. If the ship you are healing is so bad that you have to focus heals on it and never get a chance to fire weapons then you should just let em die.

But My point was adding outgoing healing can take the place of DPS in getting into the loot rolls so a dedicated healer that does not fire a single shot has equal chances of loot. If you heal the one doing DPS you are supporting them and deserve a chance at that loot. If you are at spawn spamming heals on nobody then you deserve nothing. It's not complicated and is fair.

bluegeek

I recently got my two oldest sons into the game and since I'm playing a throwaway character just to help them level up, I let them get everything they can possibly get -- including taking a Pass on loot unless they can't use it at all.

Even with that, I still get plenty of drops. I just don't get the occasional gem. And it's less hassle than having to trade it over to them.

I might get a bit more mercenary about it when they get to VA...

nickcastleton

i actually like how the current systems is now TBH.

In other mmos i was sick to death of the fights over item rolling and people rage quitting cause they didnt get what they want.

With almost everyone using need now i have NEVER seen a fight over loot people roll need if they get then great if not they simply tred on this is the only mmo where i have never seen a loot fight.

doffingcomrade

jetwtf wrote: »

But My point was adding outgoing healing can take the place of DPS in getting into the loot rolls so a dedicated healer that does not fire a single shot has equal chances of loot.

What about the guy in Azure who doesn't heal anything or fire any shots, and never actually gets into fights, but is the one to release all the ships?

krilldarn

I think I might be one of the rare people who ignore the box and let 99.9% of drops auto pass. I have the stuff i need from fleet stores. Items drops are inferior and will only get sold for the EC to get what I need for other toons.

I do the PvE or STF for the marks and Dilithium. for items to trade for EC i use the foundry. If I feel like per-suing a purple drop I will change the game difficulty to elite and hit the sector patrols in Tau Dewa.

I think a beter system for getting better equipment should be done through the DOFF system. I.E experimental console upgrade gives you a common, after a few times of being run the DOFF should have gained experience in that project so your chance of Uncommon increases, then a few more times blue chance increases so on and so on.

futurepastnow

My suggesting is to allow the hosts of private matches to disable- or force- the need option for their match if they wish.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

lancemeszaros

dknight0001 wrote: »

My adjustment is simple.

Make Need Bind it to the Character, and make it worth 0 EC.

Greed means you can sell it on the exchange or to a Vendor. Need means I intend to equip it right now.

Change "Bind to Character" to "Bind to Account" and this is pretty much the best solution imo.