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Is Starfleet Military, what politics IS the Federation, and other questions
megasilver
Member Posts: 61 Arc User
An interesting question I remember reading from a book when I was a kid in the 90's, Phil Farrand's Nitpickers Guide for Classic Trekkers. Here's a small portion of that question as highlighted by quotation marks.
"If anyone had asked me this question while I writing the nitpicker's guide for next generation my immediate response would been 'Obviously!'. Aside from the discipline of the crew , everything I saw smacked of military: the uniforms, the armament , the ships, ranks, the command structure. I just assumed that Starfleet was the equivalent of our modern day military, and took the oppertunity to criticize the lack of military disciple on Picard's Enterprise. Then The letters poured in that Picard had said that Starfleet wasn't Military. In addition, there's a story going around Trekdom that the Great Bird of the Galaxy himself Gene Roddenberry, unequivocally asserted that Starfleet wasn't Military. As to what exactly it is, I heard most likened to a fleet of ships run by Jacques Cousteau. What follows is a small collection of statements and situations dealing with this matter. I leave it to you to decide.
1. when ever there's a threat of invasion by the military of another group, Starfleet anwers the call. ( Balance of Terror, Errand of Mercey) If we were threated with war we wouldn't call Jacques, we'd call the Military
2."Tomorrow is Yesterday. In this episode Kirk tells Christopher that Starfleet is a combined service when asked if the Navy had bulit the Enterprise.
3."Errand of Mercey" Kirk tells the Organians he's a soldier not a Diplomat.
4."whoms gods destroy" garth tells kirk he is the finest military commander in the Galaxy-execpt for himself. Kirk replies he is primarly a Expoler for now.
5. Star Trek II, In reference to Starfleet, David Marcus states that scientist have always been the pawns of the military. His mother replies that Star fleet has kept the peace for 100 years
6.Star Trek V, Starfleet sends Kirk to Nimbus III to rescue the amabassadors, isn't rescuing hostages a military operation?
7. Star Trek VI, in the initail briefing a female Captain asks if they are considring mothballing Star fleet. The man in charge states that the exploring, and scientific aspects would be unaffected. If so then what would be affected then..., wouldn't it be the Military?"
Now that that question has been posed by one of the most intriguing authors in the Star Trek pop culture juggernaut, it has stirred up a lot of questions regarding this matter. IS Starfleet military? Moreover, on Earth, what happened to a lot of it's official localities in terms of things like civilian law enforcement? Tom Paris once mentioned he'd want to join the Federation Maritime Forces at one point, so I'm assuming it's the local Earth equivalent like coast guard or merchant marines still in its own planetary sphere.
Another issue that seems to be bugging me, is that the Federation as a whole, let alone Earth seems completely stagnant(which would probably explain San Francisco getting wrecked by the Dominion); the Federation doesn't believe in money by the 24th century, so their economy kind of puts the quality of their work(in my opinion) into question. However, they've had since the 23rd century, a means of currency to spend on local facilities like Space Station K-7, et al; Federation Credits. Even Spock, in William Shatner's Star Trek: The Return, mentioned three currency systems in particular: Federation Credits, Starfleet Requisition Chits, Gold-Pressed Latinum, the latter being the most valuable and widely used currency in that part of the galaxy.
So, with that in mind, the Federation seems to be a rather liberal and stagnant socialist style of government. I dare not call it benevolent totalitarianism, though a lot of the things the Federation does in the 24th century wouldn't jive by our standards. I can only assume by the 25th century(STO), there's some change in the form of Starfleet's sociopolitical, and economic policies for the time.
I have other questions that beg asking, but those will be addressed as we go. What do the fans think of the questions presented; what is your answer to those questions?
"If anyone had asked me this question while I writing the nitpicker's guide for next generation my immediate response would been 'Obviously!'. Aside from the discipline of the crew , everything I saw smacked of military: the uniforms, the armament , the ships, ranks, the command structure. I just assumed that Starfleet was the equivalent of our modern day military, and took the oppertunity to criticize the lack of military disciple on Picard's Enterprise. Then The letters poured in that Picard had said that Starfleet wasn't Military. In addition, there's a story going around Trekdom that the Great Bird of the Galaxy himself Gene Roddenberry, unequivocally asserted that Starfleet wasn't Military. As to what exactly it is, I heard most likened to a fleet of ships run by Jacques Cousteau. What follows is a small collection of statements and situations dealing with this matter. I leave it to you to decide.
1. when ever there's a threat of invasion by the military of another group, Starfleet anwers the call. ( Balance of Terror, Errand of Mercey) If we were threated with war we wouldn't call Jacques, we'd call the Military
2."Tomorrow is Yesterday. In this episode Kirk tells Christopher that Starfleet is a combined service when asked if the Navy had bulit the Enterprise.
3."Errand of Mercey" Kirk tells the Organians he's a soldier not a Diplomat.
4."whoms gods destroy" garth tells kirk he is the finest military commander in the Galaxy-execpt for himself. Kirk replies he is primarly a Expoler for now.
5. Star Trek II, In reference to Starfleet, David Marcus states that scientist have always been the pawns of the military. His mother replies that Star fleet has kept the peace for 100 years
6.Star Trek V, Starfleet sends Kirk to Nimbus III to rescue the amabassadors, isn't rescuing hostages a military operation?
7. Star Trek VI, in the initail briefing a female Captain asks if they are considring mothballing Star fleet. The man in charge states that the exploring, and scientific aspects would be unaffected. If so then what would be affected then..., wouldn't it be the Military?"
Now that that question has been posed by one of the most intriguing authors in the Star Trek pop culture juggernaut, it has stirred up a lot of questions regarding this matter. IS Starfleet military? Moreover, on Earth, what happened to a lot of it's official localities in terms of things like civilian law enforcement? Tom Paris once mentioned he'd want to join the Federation Maritime Forces at one point, so I'm assuming it's the local Earth equivalent like coast guard or merchant marines still in its own planetary sphere.
Another issue that seems to be bugging me, is that the Federation as a whole, let alone Earth seems completely stagnant(which would probably explain San Francisco getting wrecked by the Dominion); the Federation doesn't believe in money by the 24th century, so their economy kind of puts the quality of their work(in my opinion) into question. However, they've had since the 23rd century, a means of currency to spend on local facilities like Space Station K-7, et al; Federation Credits. Even Spock, in William Shatner's Star Trek: The Return, mentioned three currency systems in particular: Federation Credits, Starfleet Requisition Chits, Gold-Pressed Latinum, the latter being the most valuable and widely used currency in that part of the galaxy.
So, with that in mind, the Federation seems to be a rather liberal and stagnant socialist style of government. I dare not call it benevolent totalitarianism, though a lot of the things the Federation does in the 24th century wouldn't jive by our standards. I can only assume by the 25th century(STO), there's some change in the form of Starfleet's sociopolitical, and economic policies for the time.
I have other questions that beg asking, but those will be addressed as we go. What do the fans think of the questions presented; what is your answer to those questions?
Post edited by megasilver on
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Comments
Starfleet is a military, but inevitably tries to pretend it isn't.
Federation member worlds can keep their standing military and security forces when they join.
The invention of things like replicators and transporters means certain economic laws taken for granted on modern day earth are more or less ignored. When you can make just about anything out of anything else, what's the use of money?
Cultural stagnation isn't a human problem. When one can dedicate their lives to art, philosophy, medicine or any other "bettering ourselves" field without having to worry about putting food on the table, you can invariably get a lot done. It's kitchy, it's cliche, but who's to say that if we can cure poverty, hunger, disease, prejudice and unite for the betterment of all what we can't do?
Very fair point. To say the least, the Federation would not be truly socialist, because if it was, then the Federation would have had your entire life mapped out for you. At least on all Federation worlds, its citizens are still in charge of their own destiny.
I'm not going to get into a political debate regarding anyone's interpretation of existing earth socio-economic and political structures, but I'll just say this:
Self-determination is one of the fundamental rights of a sentient being so far as the Federation is concerned.
As for currencies, there is a lot of inconsistencies. The Federation is supposed to have stopped using currencies. Yet, people like waiters, waste employee or dilithium miners... are supposed to work because they like it ? I mean, really ? Also, federation people always have currencies to trade wherever they go, for example Kim buying Lobis to Quark. This kind of money is coming from somewhere.
Freedom is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. Your culture will adapt to service us. XD
inconsistencies ? who would have thought... ....
:rolleyes:
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Basically, Starfleet is the unified body that does everything that's required for the UFP when you are a space faring civilization. You explore and colonize new worlds, you protect your worlds, you represent your organization and so on. It is, as far as military goes, the strong arm of an utopian society which has abandoned militarism as we know it. A very far fetched real world comparision would be something like the German Federal Border Patrol past WWII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundesgrenzschutz). Use a bit of imagination here - a paramilitary organization under civil jurisdiction that is tasked with a multitude of security tasks directed inward and outward.
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- Starfleet is not a military, it's an all new type of organization that integrates many branches relevant in space travel. While it is resposible for the protection of the Federation, it is also responsible for scientific research and first and foremost exploration of space.
Basically, the scope of activites that fall on Starfleet's shoulders suprases being a military, like I said - it's an organization that integrates many branches and activities relevant in spacefaring.
- The Federation does not experience stagnation, I have no idea where you came up with that conclusion from.
- Earth has abolished all forms of currency. Not the whole Federation, but only Earth itself. Living conditions in Star Trek are not that good on all the Federation member worlds, that's why often Earth was referred as the 'paradise'. The basic idea was that Humans evolved far past some things, including the need of currency.
This however does not reflect upon the entire Federation and other member worlds have currencies. For ex. the Bank of Bolarus has been mentioned on more than one ocassion in Star Trek.
This isn't really a new type of organization. Until pretty recently, Earth had many of these, and we called them Navies.
Oceangoing research by independent organizations is a relatively new thing - as recently as the early-mid 20th Century navies still played key roles in many such expeditions. The HMS Beagle never saw combat, but was still very much a Royal Navy sloop-of-war, with an RN captain and crew, guns, cannons, and a couple of clergy/scientists stuffed into the passenger accommodations.
Yes it has a military structure because it would be a bit difficult to run starships without that order and discipline, and as starfleet was originally an Earth organisation it would follow the military structure of Earth's history.
But I dont think you can call it a military as it does so much more, and not its primary function. just as aspect that is needed from time to time.
We dont see a great deal of the federation as a whole. so we dont know the ins and out of how it functions. Does the federation council have a member from each planet? is it more like the UN that has a permanent security council that only chimes in on big issues? How much autonomy do the member worlds still have?
I always saw the federation as a loose collection of worlds that stay independent of each other and go about their own business but have to meet certain requirements to stay members.
You think you are confused? Wait till the "hand me everything" in game crowd shows up. They'll think you are speaking another language.
I gather from that the "primary 'military'" from member worlds are absorbed into Starfleet, leaving only local, planetary forces remaining under local, independent control.
From everything I've seen on screen, Starfleet IS military, but, not in the way that our modern day military is. Military and combat tatics are taught as a matter of course, but captains and members of Starfleet do not spend all day everyday practicing their craft as our modern military does. They tend to more emphasize exploration and diplomacy with the Military skills there if needed.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
Yes, Starfleet has many similarities with Earth navies - even Roddenberry himself stated that he sees the starships in Star Trek similar to the submarines and that he sees the ship vs. ship combat as the old style naval combat.
But my point was that Starfleet's range of activities and responsibilities is far wider than those of an Earth navy, so in that manner it is something completely new. No organization that existed or exists on Earth integrated all that Starfleet is suposed to have within.
I don't know about the other navies of the world, but the Royal Navy still does stuff like that. It operates several survey vessels, and always has at least one ship working with the British Antarctic Survey.
Starfleet isn't actually all that unusual; aside from being in denial about the military bit.
Whilst they did all these things they developed new technologies in order to aid navigation.
They were also unquestionably military as they are today.
Roddenberry based Star Trek on Hornblower, a Royal Navy Sailor so it is very clear that there is the military ethos behind it. There are several references to Starfleet being military in the original series.
It also follows logically that you would put military personnel into space as we do now for obvious reasons.
It would appear that some distance was made between Starfleet and the military in order to remove the negative stigma attached to the various conflicts before and during the time of The Next Generation while presenting a more idealised version of the future that in some ways made it all the more and strange than the actual aliens and weird and wonderful technology.
I think you are confusing Socialism (A loosely defined group of political idealogies, with very little in common beyond being opposed to rampant capitalism) and Marxism dear chap :P
The federation is easily a socialist nation - The needs of the people are the priority (Albeit, because of Replicators) and Capitalism is more or less extinct.
Private ownership seems to have been maintained (siskos dad owns a restaurant), but Common ownership isnt a necessary trait anyway.
Politically, the Federation is a representative republic.
Economically there is no real world analogue, because Star Trek society is post-scarcity and we don't have that yet. It would seem to be an evolved form of neosocialism, though.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
The federation is like the United Nations we have now. The member nation gather at council meetings and discuss matters of the state. There is a president and a security council that votes on matters of security.
That's how I see it.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
Ironically all of which are based on the military in one form or another. Yes, even the Scout movement was formed by Lt. General Sir Robert Baden Powell K.C.B. and large amounts of it are based on his ideals for training young boys into good soldiers.
Oh yeah, I get that all of those were based on the military form, as was Starfleet obviously; I was just saying that being like something doesn't necessarily mean being something. Although I suppose if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck...