So this is how Cryptic Employees/Representatives respond to proposals and ideas? With sarcasm.
As for bugs. Why would anyone expect the game to be bug free? But a better question is why SHOULDNT players expect the Developers to take enough measures to prevent the game from being overrun with bugs?
As others have said, theres bugs in this game from season 1. These bugs might not be gamebreaking. But they do remind those of us who have been here since Beta that this game was rushed and cheaply done. It also gives new players an idea of how Cryptic does business. Profits first, Quality second.
Once you get through the leveling..which still goes by entirely too fast. Youre left with a handful of dailies that are so grindy and mindnumbingly boring that people routinely quit the game and refuse to come back til a new Season launches.
As for the lose of profits for a season of nothing but bug fixes...Sorry to burst your bubble but most of the past Seasons introduced very little in the way of Content. There were times we went by with one FE or a single addition of content for months with nothing in between.
The truth is most of the Companies business is coming from two things. Ships/Skins and Master Keys. As long as they add new Lockboxes every 3 to 6 months they will continue to roll around in money. So please refrain from passing on misinformation about a Bug Fix Heavy Season costing Cryptic serious business.
Read my signature I'm still a player with No perks what so ever to being a moderator. Considering this is probably the 800th thread (obviously an exaggeration I don't keep count) about making xx season a bug fix season yah i'm going to make a little sarcastic humor attempt. Sorry if that upsets you but I'm still a player, and a person that's seen this discussion countless times.
The game isn't OVERRUN with bugs. Half the bugs i see reported day in and day out are ones I either have never run into once on the multiple characters I have, or have had ways around and just ignored it. (That stupid fire caves bug with the boffs though drove me NUTS but it wasn't gamebreaking.) Does that mean they don't matter? No of course not. But what gets reported on the forums vs what's actually happening in game are totally separate beasts.
I know what the seasons have contained because I've been here since beta as well. I've also reported on every seasons change when I was part of a station covering STO :P I also get what goes on (business wise and development wise) with building an MMO. Like others have said, dedicating 1 entire season to bug fixes would cost cryptic/pwe money as players would split. Yes I remember the year long drought we had during the sell of Cryptic as well and I remember how many people left during that including some friends of mine. Quite a few haven't come back actually except when the Romulan faction hit.
I get people want bug fixes, hell so do I. So do the developers, so do the exec's but there is also the bottom line they have to maintain and yes, majority of players will need new content on a regular basis or they will (and their wallets) leave which then doesn't help anything get done.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Remember that a lot of the developers themselves are also players in this game (including Dan Stahl himself). If they didn't care about this game, would they take the time to actually play as a player and not a developer? I'd think they wold not. But they do play the game.
As many people have said, it would take a lot for them to just stop developing for a season. While they are adding stuff like the Vet rewards for Romulans and adding ships that people were requesting, they have also been planning season 8 stuff too. Since a season is at least 6 months of work, that essentially means at least a year without anything new to the game, which means nothing for people to do after they get everything they wanted, which means people will leave the game, and that'll mean lost revenue for the game.
In the end, it's better for them to continue on the path they are now, fixing what bugs they can.
I am sure their are those that do care but whoever is deciding on what exactly goes does not care about quality if they did bugs would never take years to fix. Years to fix something is unacceptable plain and simple.
Like I said earlier add a new space and ground stf mission. 1 new ship for each faction. And massive bug fixing. Everyone is happy. People who want new missions to do have them. People who want new ships have them. People who want less bugs experience less bugs.
The path they are on sucks. So many annoying bugs. Bugs that can and do drive away newer players. Bugs that might eventually annoy a veteran player 1 time too many and cause them to lose hope and they quit. Bugs that keep spreading and create new bugs.
I would never recommend this game to anyone knowing all the bugs it has and how slow they are to fix them and that anyone I know would not like the game because of that.
I do not expect the game to be totally bug free but fixing bugs should be a higher priority then it currently is.
Read my signature I'm still a player with No perks what so ever to being a moderator. Considering this is probably the 800th thread (obviously an exaggeration I don't keep count) about making xx season a bug fix season yah i'm going to make a little sarcastic humor attempt. Sorry if that upsets you but I'm still a player, and a person that's seen this discussion countless times.
The game isn't OVERRUN with bugs. Half the bugs i see reported day in and day out are ones I either have never run into once on the multiple characters I have, or have had ways around and just ignored it. (That stupid fire caves bug with the boffs though drove me NUTS but it wasn't gamebreaking.) Does that mean they don't matter? No of course not. But what gets reported on the forums vs what's actually happening in game are totally separate beasts.
I know what the seasons have contained because I've been here since beta as well. I've also reported on every seasons change when I was part of a station covering STO :P I also get what goes on (business wise and development wise) with building an MMO. Like others have said, dedicating 1 entire season to bug fixes would cost cryptic/pwe money as players would split. Yes I remember the year long drought we had during the sell of Cryptic as well and I remember how many people left during that including some friends of mine. Quite a few haven't come back actually except when the Romulan faction hit.
I get people want bug fixes, hell so do I. So do the developers, so do the exec's but there is also the bottom line they have to maintain and yes, majority of players will need new content on a regular basis or they will (and their wallets) leave which then doesn't help anything get done.
Re-Read my Post. I never said you receive any 'perks'. As for sarcastic humor. I dont see anything humorous about being sarcastic to someone who made a suggestion. Only gives off the image that any other attempts to propose things will be met in kind. Especially if someone meant to be a representative of Cryptic on the forums is behind the sarcasm. Player or not, you have the Purple Community Moderator title. And should probably be more mindful of that when dealing with people who have taken time out of their personal time to try and add something to a game they enjoy.
As for the bugs. Youre one person. You cant speak on behalf of the thousands of other gamers when it comes to bugs. Its a very well known fact that there are bugs that haunt different players vs others. Theres also the fact that the game very much is full of bugs and again while not gamebreaking. Continue to make this game look cheaply done and neglected. If you think everyone can ignore this like you then thats your opinion but it isnt the truth for the rest of us.
The 'drought' wasnt the end of this game. Cryptic pretended to be 'having' issues getting content out to us while secretly developing the F2P model. And like I said before, they dont make that much money off of Content. They make money off the Lockboxes and additions to the CStore.
Most of that can be isolated to a team of artists and a handful of others while the now expanded developmental team focuses on overhauling numerous bugs.
We can keep throwing out the idea that Cryptic will lose money on a bug fix heavy season. But thats not true at all. There isnt just one way of handling an issue like this. Cryptic/PWE has the means to polish this game. And after 3 years of being on the market. This game is long overdue for a serious polish.
There are plenty of other F2P games that do not roll out content regularly. But they do a mighty good job of keeping a handle on the bugs. Theres also F2P games where the Devs do a good job of balancing both. And now that Cryptic has a larger team of Developers. Their reasons for lack of effort has now become an excuse.
Yes please dedicate just 1 season to fixing all the bugs because that is completely realistic in an MMO environment...
Please realize the sarcasm in the above statement. It is NOT possible to have a bug free MMO. No MMO on the market today is bug free. Less bugs with a bigger development and QA team? Perhaps. But not one is bug free. It'll never happen.
As stated in this guy's signature, he's a volunteer mod. Not an employee of Cryptic's. Nor do his views represent Cryptic's. So basically, his opinion is irrelevant.
I've played a few MMO's and I've never experienced the amount of bugs and server issues that I have with this game. Do they have bugs? Sure. BUT NOT AS MANY as this game has and that the devs continue to create.
Lets face it. Now that the shiny of LoR has worn off we're realizing that:
a. LoR was done totally half assed and rushed out the door
b. it created even more bugs and issues than were in the game before
as well as negatively effecting existing content.
c. the devs have no intenet on fixing anything unless they absolutely have to.
d. Cryptic is constitutionally incapable of producing ANYTHING that is not bugged or
broken.
e. this vicious cycle continues because of the Free to Play model PWE and Cryptic
subscribe to. Always putting short term revenue ahead of long term sustainability.
Look at the Scimitar and the new Carrier AI for Jebus' sake. If not for the fact that this is Stark Trek and that the IP has an incredibly loyal and dedicated fan base this game would be where Champions online is now.
So hell yes the next season should be a bug fix season. And it should include a WoW style matchmaking system for STFs and PvP that will group similar leveled/geared players together. Also matchmaking balanced teams in the public queues that would include a mandatory mixture of different classes thereby legitimizing healers and tanks.
Lastly it should include a massive balance pass on all ships, gear, and doff powers. Dstahl recently said that this game "is far from being on maintenance" but ya know its also far from being where it should be. Take a look at Neverwinter and the amount of resources it's getting and giving (promotions, community events, give aways etc.)
and consider what is the real future of STO?
You will not get an honest answer from Dstahl or anyone else that's affiliated with him.
then make your own game, see how easy it is to run an MMO, stay profitable, keep players interested AND keep it all bug free, all the while keeping the game F2P...I have encountered a few bugs here and there, are they frustrating? yes, have I gotten over it? absolutely. I feel that I am here to play a game, it is for my amusement, entertainment. It the bugs are so bad that it breaks the game or makes it no longer fun, then I leave. I have done this on quite a few other MMO's, tried it, didn't like, moved on. If it is really so painful to play this game, then move on, stop being a TRIBBLE and then ******** about it.
then make your own game, see how easy it is to run an MMO, stay profitable, keep players interested AND keep it all bug free, all the while keeping the game F2P...I have encountered a few bugs here and there, are they frustrating? yes, have I gotten over it? absolutely. I feel that I am here to play a game, it is for my amusement, entertainment. It the bugs are so bad that it breaks the game or makes it no longer fun, then I leave. I have done this on quite a few other MMO's, tried it, didn't like, moved on. If it is really so painful to play this game, then move on, stop being a TRIBBLE and then ******** about it.
That's precisely why people post these threads: They don't WANT to leave, but it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to justify staying when their daily experience is one where they navigate issues--some of which have been reported years ago.
With regard to the thread in general: It's a problem that Cryptic can't devote more time to bug fixing and polishing because that would mean a content drought. It says something about the structure of the game itself that STO is not replay-friendly (be it new characters or end-game content). Perhaps that is where the real problem is and Cryptic should really consider finding ways to expand repeatable content in meaningful ways that make a month or two of solid bug-fixing more palatable.
As it is, Cryptic has put all it's money on grinds and the reputation system--which is just not sustainable. People are going to burn out not because there's nothing left to do, but because what IS left to do is excruciatingly mind-numbing.
I like that response thank you. I do agree, there should be more repeatable content. but at the same time, people like new stuff as well. I think Cryptic is relying on the foundry to provide varied content to the game world.
then make your own game, see how easy it is to run an MMO, stay profitable, keep players interested AND keep it all bug free, all the while keeping the game F2P...I have encountered a few bugs here and there, are they frustrating? yes, have I gotten over it? absolutely. I feel that I am here to play a game, it is for my amusement, entertainment. It the bugs are so bad that it breaks the game or makes it no longer fun, then I leave. I have done this on quite a few other MMO's, tried it, didn't like, moved on. If it is really so painful to play this game, then move on, stop being a TRIBBLE and then ******** about it.
People know that games are not easy to make and run however that is no excuse for what they are doing. This is the only Star Trek game and a lot of people play it for that very reason. People still like this game even will all the bugs but people want the bugs to get fixed not to remain for years. People tend to complain about things they like but believe can be better it happens in many things in life.
That's precisely why people post these threads: They don't WANT to leave, but it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to justify staying when their daily experience is one where they navigate issues--some of which have been reported years ago.
With regard to the thread in general: It's a problem that Cryptic can't devote more time to bug fixing and polishing because that would mean a content drought. It says something about the structure of the game itself that STO is not replay-friendly (be it new characters or end-game content). Perhaps that is where the real problem is and Cryptic should really consider finding ways to expand repeatable content in meaningful ways that make a month or two of solid bug-fixing more palatable.
As it is, Cryptic has put all it's money on grinds and the reputation system--which is just not sustainable. People are going to burn out not because there's nothing left to do, but because what IS left to do is excruciatingly mind-numbing.
pretty much, i mean if there was another space MMO that isn't the insanity that is EVE, you can bet this game would have less players, but there isn't, BSO doesn't count, that thing is a joke.
this game IS fun, especially if you're fan star trek in general, even if the game in general is kinda bad.
as for the reputation system, this would be fixed easily, by making it account wide and the problem with the grind isn't so much that its a grind, but that it essentially bogs down to 3 STFs(few people do hive, its too hard/takes too long, and most avoid ground STFs too), also big dig, klingon scout force and gorn minefield(for the dailies only mostly), the end.
everything else simply does not give enough rewards to justifity the time spent, which people no matter what others say, will want, if you make a game based on grind, people will feel like they HAVE to grind, its how it works, so despite the game having quite large ammount of content, most people believe they have no reason to bother with it.
they could fix this, by using the foundry through, and giving appropriate rewards.
also don't forget cryptic essentially killed alts by not making rep account wide(or at the very least faction wide), and thus killing part of the replayability, i know i barely touch over half of my alts.
Comparing STO to Star Citizen is like comparing STO to Eve. The only real similarity is that they are in space. Star Citizen seems to be in a competition with Eve and Eve will feel the effect more than STO. Star Citizen seems to have too many elements in common with Eve, a huge trade focus and major PvP to name a couple. Star Citizen seems to have the hardcore aspect that Eve has and lots of people in STO like the casualness of the game. There will always be Trekkies interested in STO and STO will survive until PWE decides to call it quits on STO. SWTOR was supposed to kill off STO and look how well it did. Until Star Citizen has been out for at least a few months, then it will either be a major success, a major flop, or neither. There is no proof which one it will be.
STO will not survive once that game releases--even if it's not competing directly.
I dont think STO is going anywhere. But Cryptic better not hope to maintain the status quo with future Space oriented MMOs on their way.
Right now Cryptic/PWE is enjoying the fact that they are the only serious Space MMO (Minus EVE) Developers and there is no direct or even slightly indirect competition in this arena.
But the serious lack of interest in the infrastructure of this game will bite them in the behind once more flushed out games hit the market...And they WILL eventually hit the market. STO has done nothing but prove that there is a market for Space MMOs and that they can survive.
Star Trek Online/Cryptic has until 6 months into the release of Star Citizen to put a heavy effort into fixing the bugs and other serious issues before their current sales patterns drop off.
Cryptic needs to give us an entire season of bug fixes. If they cannot give us a stable gaming experience, Cryptic might as well just forget about any new seasons.
Its time for a major game overhaul.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,597Community Moderator
edited August 2013
MMOs are by nature buggy. As it is a constantly evolving program, things break. Its just how MMOs are. *shrug* I'll probably be around until they turn the lights off myself. Since STO is F2P, I can pick up where I left off anytime.
I think i just dont need to say much on that..........so many bugs.....so many annoying gamebreaking bugs/exploits/not working things......
Just take one season......stop developing....stop throwing out stuff......
Just work on fixes.......balancing.....the code......the stability and all the embarrassing bugs.
Id throw a party at esd if that would happen:rolleyes:
I posted something similar. As a real lifer a real 1k survivor I too am so tired of all the bugs from before the game launched. It really is disappointing after all these years 2 computers 3 OS's that all of these bugs still exist and return so often!
MMOs are by nature buggy. As it is a constantly evolving program, things break. Its just how MMOs are. *shrug* I'll probably be around until they turn the lights off myself. Since STO is F2P, I can pick up where I left off anytime.
The reason "MMOs are by nature buggy" is exactly because of the attitude that falls back on the "MMOs are by nature buggy" excuse. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Bethesda does the same thing with their titles, but rather than rely genre excuse, they try to make their incredibly buggy games appear charming because of the lack of polish ("We think some bugs should stay in the game because they add to the experience"). No matter how they try to spin it, it's an excuse.
It is not impossible to flush out most bugs--especially many of the bugs still plaguing STO. It takes willpower, manpower, and a publisher insightful enough to know how bugs impact players' experiences--and how those experiences impact retention.
I've left behind many a game because of bugs. Ironically enough, most of them were single-player games--not MMOs.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "This is Fleet Commander BumBle!..
Vice Admiral of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..
I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
Yes please dedicate just 1 season to fixing all the bugs because that is completely realistic in an MMO environment...
Please realize the sarcasm in the above statement. It is NOT possible to have a bug free MMO. No MMO on the market today is bug free. Less bugs with a bigger development and QA team? Perhaps. But not one is bug free. It'll never happen.
As others have said, what's gamebreaking for some is not gamebreaking to most and vise versa. If something is truly game breaking to where the majority of players cannot get around it then sure it's fixed ASAP. Little annoying bugs are, as time permits, fixed and pushed to live. However, some bugs don't even manifest till thousands of people utilize something then they notice it.
That's just how MMO's are. Not to mention yeah, if they just did 1 season of bug fixes no new content (meaning for about 6 months we don't see anything new) you'll see a sharp sharp decline in the user base which ultimately would not help at all.
Kinda like how no real content was added for how many months prior to FTP? What was the reason then?
Kinda like how no real content was added for how many months prior to FTP? What was the reason then?
The reason for that was actually somewhat legitimate:
Cryptic was in the process of being sold from Atari to other companies.
As such, they had to be careful with what they released, because it could potentially increase or decrease the value of the company, thus potentially offset the value of a sale.
In the mean time, Atari pulled almost all resources from Cryptic leaving them with minimum staff, so there wasn't much left to prepare new content.
Then when they finally were sold, focus was forced to be offset to prepare for F2P, and as such little to no content was added.
It dosen't make it right, and it dosen't make it fun to have been a player back then (I was there after all, and just as bitter about it as anyone), but it does make sense.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
And yet, despite the lack of content, here we all are. It seems to me, that if enough people stuck around long enough to keep STO going during the "Year of Hell", getting some real quality of life improvements would be a welcome change.
And yet, despite the lack of content, here we all are. It seems to me, that if enough people stuck around long enough to keep STO going during the "Year of Hell", getting some real quality of life improvements would be a welcome change.
which is funny, because people claim it will cause players to leave in droves if they dedicate a patch to bug fixing and delay content a bit, there will probably be some complaining, but most will keep playing(and paying).
which is funny, because people claim it will cause players to leave in droves if they dedicate a patch to bug fixing and delay content a bit, there will probably be some complaining, but most will keep playing(and paying).
Exactly. Ive said this earlier that the two main means of income for Cryptic is Ships/Skins(bundles) and Master Keys.
Creating a small team to build New items for the lockboxes while focusing the rest of the team to work out the bigger nastier bugs and even those that are just aesthetically annoying would do a lot.
They dont need to fix EVERY bug. Just show some effort to prolonging this games lifespan by fixing what will eventually drive the playerbase away.
People get crazy about this. What game breaking bugs and exploits?
Oh I don't know how about game crashes that a lot of people have. I myself get a lot of crashes when I switch characters or visit the starship bridge for when I want to do doffing. These problems happen a lot once LoR was released.
1. For me its really funny that there are still players that seem to not recognize all the bugs. They must be either ignoring them, playing in fleets without knowledge-sharing, or really doing their "doesnt matter to me - i play my content" -thing without looking to the right or left !
2. Which Bugs (funny again that thats being asked here because they are more than obvious, just visit the bug section in forums or talk to an "expierienced" player)? Not everyone has all bugs. Nor does everyone has the same bugs. There are also people without bugs.
But: From my expierience, most people (that i know) know about them ! By having them, by talking to people having them, by reading the forums or by simply seeing them on others ! I really dont want to throw critics on anyone here (although just putting up a thread like that seems to put some people in rage, again funny, especially when crying about one, typing.....like......that......because......i dont know why....if....it...is....better....for...u....i...just....stop using my handy and write normal like i do now, but back to topic). Everyone has to fit his own playstyle. And not everything has same priority for every player. I?m fine with that too.
So: there are many people that are indeed having these bugs, that are really annoyed and effected in gameplay ! Isnt it quite tolerable that these people are trying to get some attention on these issues? If u are one of those players that doesnt care about bugs, doesnt care about the other players and so on, the minimum you could do is: "give some love & try to understand those people being disappointed about that"
3. The Argument that every MMO has bugs:
Yes. Accepted ! But this isnt about black & white. Its about shades of grey. Every MMO has bugs and its nearly impossible without bugs. But STO has reached critical mass. I know dozens of people that quit STO long time ago because of the bugs, grind & p2w. And theres a constant stream of people to other games due to these reasons. Especially PVP-ers. But also many PVE-ers.
Nearly every new ships comes with bugs. the same with consoles, weapons or other items. Also Reputation Traits, revamps and the content is hitting holodeck with inbuild bugs. Why do they have tribble server ???
And on top, many of these bugs exist since years ! Many come back from time to time. Many new come in addition with every update !
Isnt it necessary to take a break one time and watch closer ? If i start to compare sto to other games sto really "hurts".
4. STO is a great game in general. I love science fiction. I love PVP. I love starships. And i love the system sto allows me to have that all in one. That being said, i am not happy if nearly everything is broken when hitting holodeck. Nor am i happy about the balancing being constantly ignored, the massive amount of grinding and new stuff coming in without putting it in good relation to the other stuff. In terms of PVP theyve constantly been saying "next season well improve pvp", but they did nothing but producing more problems.
But also in terms of PVE: Are u guys really happy with getting new broken stuff, getting new bugged content, getting new grindingsystems, money- and timesinks, new unbalanced functionalities and copy&paste-stuff ???
I really cant believe that is true.
A season dedicated to all the problems in this game is (i think) a good way to get some new ground to stand on.
For me, that doesnt necessarily mean that there is no new content coming, if they do so. I really think if they try to kill all (many) bugs, try to get the balancing on a good level again and get all their stuff fixed/rebalanced, they also need to rearrange some things. A season being done like that would produce a feeling of a nearly "new" game, a feeling of having tons of new content without releasing new copy&paste stuff or bugged missions that are done in 2 days.
I really think that would motivate people. And i am sure Cryptic would get lots of Attention and positive Feedback on that.
And cryptic still could bring some new things. But not like in other seasons. And theres a season after that season. So they could continue with whatever they want.
But: if they dont do that one day (in a season or whatever) ! The game will just keep pulling new players, but the others will be gone. I am here since Beta. And many many i know, also are (or were).
And the new ones will stay for weeks or months, but not for years. In my opinion you cant hold a games level with such a tremendous amount of bugs/unbalancing/exploits.
5. The "selling" argument:
a) There are tons of fans putting ressources in the game since beta. These people (i am sure) would put even in some more if the game would be "better" again !
b) New people put in some ressources Season by Season in waves. But they wont do that constantly because they will be gone maybe the next season.
c) Old people may come back.
d) Only selling broken stuff season by season doesnt pay the game. Selling stuff constantly will pay the game. Its like in a bar. Get your Community. Get people coming again. Get people spreading your name. That will be a good thing for a bar. Throw out high prices, bad cocktails and poor service will (even if there still is a good marketing) destroy your bar because there will be other bars doing better.
e) To all the posters here that stated "they have to continue their way because they need the money": I think this is a kind of thinking that makes any development and improvement nearly impossible. And i think its just not true because they would also make the money fixing the things and making the game better !
6. Is it necessary to dedicate a season to that ? Is there no other way?
Hmm. No ! And Yes !
There is another way. To do it constantly. But this is the path they stated to follow. And they did not. I dont know if they didnt want to or if they just werent able to. But it is not happening. Not in the way the game needs to get all the bugs on a constantly acceptable level.
So that would be one possible alternative way to go.
I hope i didnt bore you with that wall of text. And feel free to criticise me.
Hope there are still people having some "hope", although mine is gone...
Comments
The game isn't OVERRUN with bugs. Half the bugs i see reported day in and day out are ones I either have never run into once on the multiple characters I have, or have had ways around and just ignored it. (That stupid fire caves bug with the boffs though drove me NUTS but it wasn't gamebreaking.) Does that mean they don't matter? No of course not. But what gets reported on the forums vs what's actually happening in game are totally separate beasts.
I know what the seasons have contained because I've been here since beta as well. I've also reported on every seasons change when I was part of a station covering STO :P I also get what goes on (business wise and development wise) with building an MMO. Like others have said, dedicating 1 entire season to bug fixes would cost cryptic/pwe money as players would split. Yes I remember the year long drought we had during the sell of Cryptic as well
I get people want bug fixes, hell so do I. So do the developers, so do the exec's but there is also the bottom line they have to maintain and yes, majority of players will need new content on a regular basis or they will (and their wallets) leave which then doesn't help anything get done.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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I am sure their are those that do care but whoever is deciding on what exactly goes does not care about quality if they did bugs would never take years to fix. Years to fix something is unacceptable plain and simple.
Like I said earlier add a new space and ground stf mission. 1 new ship for each faction. And massive bug fixing. Everyone is happy. People who want new missions to do have them. People who want new ships have them. People who want less bugs experience less bugs.
The path they are on sucks. So many annoying bugs. Bugs that can and do drive away newer players. Bugs that might eventually annoy a veteran player 1 time too many and cause them to lose hope and they quit. Bugs that keep spreading and create new bugs.
I would never recommend this game to anyone knowing all the bugs it has and how slow they are to fix them and that anyone I know would not like the game because of that.
I do not expect the game to be totally bug free but fixing bugs should be a higher priority then it currently is.
Re-Read my Post. I never said you receive any 'perks'. As for sarcastic humor. I dont see anything humorous about being sarcastic to someone who made a suggestion. Only gives off the image that any other attempts to propose things will be met in kind. Especially if someone meant to be a representative of Cryptic on the forums is behind the sarcasm. Player or not, you have the Purple Community Moderator title. And should probably be more mindful of that when dealing with people who have taken time out of their personal time to try and add something to a game they enjoy.
As for the bugs. Youre one person. You cant speak on behalf of the thousands of other gamers when it comes to bugs. Its a very well known fact that there are bugs that haunt different players vs others. Theres also the fact that the game very much is full of bugs and again while not gamebreaking. Continue to make this game look cheaply done and neglected. If you think everyone can ignore this like you then thats your opinion but it isnt the truth for the rest of us.
The 'drought' wasnt the end of this game. Cryptic pretended to be 'having' issues getting content out to us while secretly developing the F2P model. And like I said before, they dont make that much money off of Content. They make money off the Lockboxes and additions to the CStore.
Most of that can be isolated to a team of artists and a handful of others while the now expanded developmental team focuses on overhauling numerous bugs.
We can keep throwing out the idea that Cryptic will lose money on a bug fix heavy season. But thats not true at all. There isnt just one way of handling an issue like this. Cryptic/PWE has the means to polish this game. And after 3 years of being on the market. This game is long overdue for a serious polish.
There are plenty of other F2P games that do not roll out content regularly. But they do a mighty good job of keeping a handle on the bugs. Theres also F2P games where the Devs do a good job of balancing both. And now that Cryptic has a larger team of Developers. Their reasons for lack of effort has now become an excuse.
As stated in this guy's signature, he's a volunteer mod. Not an employee of Cryptic's. Nor do his views represent Cryptic's. So basically, his opinion is irrelevant.
I've played a few MMO's and I've never experienced the amount of bugs and server issues that I have with this game. Do they have bugs? Sure. BUT NOT AS MANY as this game has and that the devs continue to create.
Lets face it. Now that the shiny of LoR has worn off we're realizing that:
a. LoR was done totally half assed and rushed out the door
b. it created even more bugs and issues than were in the game before
as well as negatively effecting existing content.
c. the devs have no intenet on fixing anything unless they absolutely have to.
d. Cryptic is constitutionally incapable of producing ANYTHING that is not bugged or
broken.
e. this vicious cycle continues because of the Free to Play model PWE and Cryptic
subscribe to. Always putting short term revenue ahead of long term sustainability.
Look at the Scimitar and the new Carrier AI for Jebus' sake. If not for the fact that this is Stark Trek and that the IP has an incredibly loyal and dedicated fan base this game would be where Champions online is now.
So hell yes the next season should be a bug fix season. And it should include a WoW style matchmaking system for STFs and PvP that will group similar leveled/geared players together. Also matchmaking balanced teams in the public queues that would include a mandatory mixture of different classes thereby legitimizing healers and tanks.
Lastly it should include a massive balance pass on all ships, gear, and doff powers. Dstahl recently said that this game "is far from being on maintenance" but ya know its also far from being where it should be. Take a look at Neverwinter and the amount of resources it's getting and giving (promotions, community events, give aways etc.)
and consider what is the real future of STO?
You will not get an honest answer from Dstahl or anyone else that's affiliated with him.
That's precisely why people post these threads: They don't WANT to leave, but it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to justify staying when their daily experience is one where they navigate issues--some of which have been reported years ago.
With regard to the thread in general: It's a problem that Cryptic can't devote more time to bug fixing and polishing because that would mean a content drought. It says something about the structure of the game itself that STO is not replay-friendly (be it new characters or end-game content). Perhaps that is where the real problem is and Cryptic should really consider finding ways to expand repeatable content in meaningful ways that make a month or two of solid bug-fixing more palatable.
As it is, Cryptic has put all it's money on grinds and the reputation system--which is just not sustainable. People are going to burn out not because there's nothing left to do, but because what IS left to do is excruciatingly mind-numbing.
People know that games are not easy to make and run however that is no excuse for what they are doing. This is the only Star Trek game and a lot of people play it for that very reason. People still like this game even will all the bugs but people want the bugs to get fixed not to remain for years. People tend to complain about things they like but believe can be better it happens in many things in life.
pretty much, i mean if there was another space MMO that isn't the insanity that is EVE, you can bet this game would have less players, but there isn't, BSO doesn't count, that thing is a joke.
this game IS fun, especially if you're fan star trek in general, even if the game in general is kinda bad.
as for the reputation system, this would be fixed easily, by making it account wide and the problem with the grind isn't so much that its a grind, but that it essentially bogs down to 3 STFs(few people do hive, its too hard/takes too long, and most avoid ground STFs too), also big dig, klingon scout force and gorn minefield(for the dailies only mostly), the end.
everything else simply does not give enough rewards to justifity the time spent, which people no matter what others say, will want, if you make a game based on grind, people will feel like they HAVE to grind, its how it works, so despite the game having quite large ammount of content, most people believe they have no reason to bother with it.
they could fix this, by using the foundry through, and giving appropriate rewards.
also don't forget cryptic essentially killed alts by not making rep account wide(or at the very least faction wide), and thus killing part of the replayability, i know i barely touch over half of my alts.
My hope is that it lasts long enough for Star Citizen to be released.
STO will not survive once that game releases--even if it's not competing directly.
I dont think STO is going anywhere. But Cryptic better not hope to maintain the status quo with future Space oriented MMOs on their way.
Right now Cryptic/PWE is enjoying the fact that they are the only serious Space MMO (Minus EVE) Developers and there is no direct or even slightly indirect competition in this arena.
But the serious lack of interest in the infrastructure of this game will bite them in the behind once more flushed out games hit the market...And they WILL eventually hit the market. STO has done nothing but prove that there is a market for Space MMOs and that they can survive.
Star Trek Online/Cryptic has until 6 months into the release of Star Citizen to put a heavy effort into fixing the bugs and other serious issues before their current sales patterns drop off.
People are not one dimensional beings. I am playing STO because there are no other games currently holding my attention.
Games do not have to be similar to take customers away from one to the other.
For example If Civ 6 were released today, I would not be here.
There is more in common between STO and Star Citizen then with the Civilization series.
I have time for 1-2 games, that is it.
Its time for a major game overhaul.
I posted something similar. As a real lifer a real 1k survivor I too am so tired of all the bugs from before the game launched. It really is disappointing after all these years 2 computers 3 OS's that all of these bugs still exist and return so often!
The reason "MMOs are by nature buggy" is exactly because of the attitude that falls back on the "MMOs are by nature buggy" excuse. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Bethesda does the same thing with their titles, but rather than rely genre excuse, they try to make their incredibly buggy games appear charming because of the lack of polish ("We think some bugs should stay in the game because they add to the experience"). No matter how they try to spin it, it's an excuse.
It is not impossible to flush out most bugs--especially many of the bugs still plaguing STO. It takes willpower, manpower, and a publisher insightful enough to know how bugs impact players' experiences--and how those experiences impact retention.
I've left behind many a game because of bugs. Ironically enough, most of them were single-player games--not MMOs.
"This is Fleet Commander BumBle!..
Vice Admiral of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..
I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
Kinda like how no real content was added for how many months prior to FTP? What was the reason then?
The reason for that was actually somewhat legitimate:
Cryptic was in the process of being sold from Atari to other companies.
As such, they had to be careful with what they released, because it could potentially increase or decrease the value of the company, thus potentially offset the value of a sale.
In the mean time, Atari pulled almost all resources from Cryptic leaving them with minimum staff, so there wasn't much left to prepare new content.
Then when they finally were sold, focus was forced to be offset to prepare for F2P, and as such little to no content was added.
It dosen't make it right, and it dosen't make it fun to have been a player back then (I was there after all, and just as bitter about it as anyone), but it does make sense.
which is funny, because people claim it will cause players to leave in droves if they dedicate a patch to bug fixing and delay content a bit, there will probably be some complaining, but most will keep playing(and paying).
Exactly. Ive said this earlier that the two main means of income for Cryptic is Ships/Skins(bundles) and Master Keys.
Creating a small team to build New items for the lockboxes while focusing the rest of the team to work out the bigger nastier bugs and even those that are just aesthetically annoying would do a lot.
They dont need to fix EVERY bug. Just show some effort to prolonging this games lifespan by fixing what will eventually drive the playerbase away.
People get crazy about this. What game breaking bugs and exploits?
The game plays fine. Great even.
Not to mention new content devs and big fixing devs are not the same devs.
My vote is for new content. I love content.
Oh I don't know how about game crashes that a lot of people have. I myself get a lot of crashes when I switch characters or visit the starship bridge for when I want to do doffing. These problems happen a lot once LoR was released.
2. Which Bugs (funny again that thats being asked here because they are more than obvious, just visit the bug section in forums or talk to an "expierienced" player)? Not everyone has all bugs. Nor does everyone has the same bugs. There are also people without bugs.
But: From my expierience, most people (that i know) know about them ! By having them, by talking to people having them, by reading the forums or by simply seeing them on others ! I really dont want to throw critics on anyone here (although just putting up a thread like that seems to put some people in rage, again funny, especially when crying about one, typing.....like......that......because......i dont know why....if....it...is....better....for...u....i...just....stop using my handy and write normal like i do now, but back to topic). Everyone has to fit his own playstyle. And not everything has same priority for every player. I?m fine with that too.
So: there are many people that are indeed having these bugs, that are really annoyed and effected in gameplay ! Isnt it quite tolerable that these people are trying to get some attention on these issues? If u are one of those players that doesnt care about bugs, doesnt care about the other players and so on, the minimum you could do is: "give some love & try to understand those people being disappointed about that"
3. The Argument that every MMO has bugs:
Yes. Accepted ! But this isnt about black & white. Its about shades of grey. Every MMO has bugs and its nearly impossible without bugs. But STO has reached critical mass. I know dozens of people that quit STO long time ago because of the bugs, grind & p2w. And theres a constant stream of people to other games due to these reasons. Especially PVP-ers. But also many PVE-ers.
Nearly every new ships comes with bugs. the same with consoles, weapons or other items. Also Reputation Traits, revamps and the content is hitting holodeck with inbuild bugs. Why do they have tribble server ???
And on top, many of these bugs exist since years ! Many come back from time to time. Many new come in addition with every update !
Isnt it necessary to take a break one time and watch closer ? If i start to compare sto to other games sto really "hurts".
4. STO is a great game in general. I love science fiction. I love PVP. I love starships. And i love the system sto allows me to have that all in one. That being said, i am not happy if nearly everything is broken when hitting holodeck. Nor am i happy about the balancing being constantly ignored, the massive amount of grinding and new stuff coming in without putting it in good relation to the other stuff. In terms of PVP theyve constantly been saying "next season well improve pvp", but they did nothing but producing more problems.
But also in terms of PVE: Are u guys really happy with getting new broken stuff, getting new bugged content, getting new grindingsystems, money- and timesinks, new unbalanced functionalities and copy&paste-stuff ???
I really cant believe that is true.
A season dedicated to all the problems in this game is (i think) a good way to get some new ground to stand on.
For me, that doesnt necessarily mean that there is no new content coming, if they do so. I really think if they try to kill all (many) bugs, try to get the balancing on a good level again and get all their stuff fixed/rebalanced, they also need to rearrange some things. A season being done like that would produce a feeling of a nearly "new" game, a feeling of having tons of new content without releasing new copy&paste stuff or bugged missions that are done in 2 days.
I really think that would motivate people. And i am sure Cryptic would get lots of Attention and positive Feedback on that.
And cryptic still could bring some new things. But not like in other seasons. And theres a season after that season. So they could continue with whatever they want.
But: if they dont do that one day (in a season or whatever) ! The game will just keep pulling new players, but the others will be gone. I am here since Beta. And many many i know, also are (or were).
And the new ones will stay for weeks or months, but not for years. In my opinion you cant hold a games level with such a tremendous amount of bugs/unbalancing/exploits.
5. The "selling" argument:
a) There are tons of fans putting ressources in the game since beta. These people (i am sure) would put even in some more if the game would be "better" again !
b) New people put in some ressources Season by Season in waves. But they wont do that constantly because they will be gone maybe the next season.
c) Old people may come back.
d) Only selling broken stuff season by season doesnt pay the game. Selling stuff constantly will pay the game. Its like in a bar. Get your Community. Get people coming again. Get people spreading your name. That will be a good thing for a bar. Throw out high prices, bad cocktails and poor service will (even if there still is a good marketing) destroy your bar because there will be other bars doing better.
e) To all the posters here that stated "they have to continue their way because they need the money": I think this is a kind of thinking that makes any development and improvement nearly impossible. And i think its just not true because they would also make the money fixing the things and making the game better !
6. Is it necessary to dedicate a season to that ? Is there no other way?
Hmm. No ! And Yes !
There is another way. To do it constantly. But this is the path they stated to follow. And they did not. I dont know if they didnt want to or if they just werent able to. But it is not happening. Not in the way the game needs to get all the bugs on a constantly acceptable level.
So that would be one possible alternative way to go.
I hope i didnt bore you with that wall of text. And feel free to criticise me.
Hope there are still people having some "hope", although mine is gone...
Greetz