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Ease of Access - Making STO Playable

pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
my father's, brother's, nephew's, cousin's, former-room mate lost their arm in a duel, which makes gaming for them quite difficult by conventionable means. We have been compiling Autohotkey scripts so they can play the game without as much interface demands, much in the same way you can make a gaming keyboard execute batch commands with in a cycle, or have a gaming mouse toggle autofire. we then incoorporate these binds that begin in the windows drivers into the game's own robust keybind system, and they can play now.

There has been some concern in the game that he isnt allowed to play this way, that it is wrong, or immoral. Should he just quit playing video games entirley, or is it fine to use Autohotkey to assist them so they can enjoy the game and contribute to its financial success. - It doesent manipulate the game files in any way, it merely makes human interface less demanding.
Post edited by pulserazor on

Comments

  • jumpingjsjumpingjs Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    In a duel?

    And you have so many relatives that know you that conduct in that activity ... it is so many people that you know ...

    Q was right, the human race is barbaric!

    As for scripts, I will assume you are right in your premise (which do not entirely believe),

    I still disagree.

    The point of the game is to have an interface. It separates the losers (such as my self) and the winners.

    I cannot click everything at the right time.

    So ... NOOOOOOoooo to you premise.
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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Allow me to be as clear as I possibly can, speaking as a forum moderator.

    Cryptic does not support or endorse any third-party software or utilities for use with the game. That has been their official stance since forever.

    Just as they are not going to officially tell you that using Notepad is an acceptable means for recording chat logs, they are also not going to recommend the use of a Windows macro utility in place of the built in keybinds.

    So there are two different ways of looking at this:

    1. Assuming PWE considers use of the utility as an exploit, discussing it on the forums is against the rules.

    2. Assuming using the utility is not an exploit because this is a general purpose Windows utility, this forum is not for the discussion of software that PWE/Cryptic did not create. It is therefore off-topic and discussing it here on these forums is considered a form of spamming.

    Either way, the people who are trying to force this discussion (about third-party utilities) on the forums really need to stop. The official response you're most likely to get involves getting yourself an infraction on the forums, which could lead to a ban.

    As you know, I am not a PWE employee. I cannot tell you whether the utility is or is not an exploit. I can give you advice, which basically amounts to the suggestion that you should drop it. If you choose to use unsupported software as an aid to play the game, you are doing so at your own risk.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
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  • vocmcpvocmcp Member Posts: 1,134 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    bluegeek wrote: »
    Allow me to be as clear as I possibly can, speaking as a forum moderator.

    Cryptic does not support or endorse any third-party software or utilities for use with the game. That has been their official stance since forever.

    Just as they are not going to officially tell you that using Notepad is an acceptable means for recording chat logs, they are also not going to recommend the use of a Windows macro utility in place of the built in keybinds.

    So there are two different ways of looking at this:

    1. Assuming PWE considers use of the utility as an exploit, discussing it on the forums is against the rules.

    2. Assuming using the utility is not an exploit because this is a general purpose Windows utility, this forum is not for the discussion of software that PWE/Cryptic did not create. It is therefore off-topic and discussing it here on these forums is considered a form of spamming.

    Either way, the people who are trying to force this discussion on the forums really need to stop. The official response you're most likely to get involves getting yourself an infraction on the forums, which could lead to a ban.

    As you know, I am not a PWE employee. I cannot tell you whether the utility is or is not an exploit. I can give you advice, which basically amounts to the suggestion that you should drop it. If you choose to use unsupported software as an aid to play the game, you are doing so at your own risk.

    Regardless of OP I find this position highly ignorant and arrogant towards impaired people. It's not even allowed to discuss an actual problem with respect to the game. As a matter of fact I find that it is even pretty close to scratching the law. As you know people with disabilities have the same legal rights of access when it comes to buildings, jobs etc.. There might even be a law ensuring access to digital data. If there is Cryptics policy is illegal. Even if there isn't there are several ways to interpret law:

    Grammatical interpretation: using the literal meaning of the statutory text ("grammatical" is actually the wrong word, but it is commonly used for this type of interpretation).
    Historical interpretation: using the legislative history, to reveal the intent of the legislator.
    Systematic interpretation: considering the context of provisions, if only by acknowledging in which chapter a provision is listed.
    Teleological interpretation: then the purpose of the law is considered.

    While the grammatical is not applicable and this is more of a European perception you can see where the last three points are going. These interpretation methods have been used in similar cases to extend law to new developments. In casu you'd be able to infer a right to digital access for impaired people from other laws with similar rules regarding jobs, buildings etc.. And if someone sues, and there is no law yet, these are the methods that are used by judges. I wouldn't put my money on Cryptic.
  • defcon1776defcon1776 Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I am a disabled player having only 2 somewhat usable fingers on my left hand and a right arm plagued by shoulder surgery. I do not use any outside software. I do find however, that playing any other class but a tactical toon is much more difficult, especially on the ground due to having more skills requiring their own, non-chained keybind. Even certain ships such as carriers are much more difficult due to the additional commands.

    With that said, keybinds as they are do provide me enough customization to be successful and in some cases excel as a tactical captain. While my chaining tactical commands may not be ideal for some min-maxers, without it I would not be able to play well enough to be competitive, if at all.
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  • ajm1067ajm1067 Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    The debate about whether this is a facility for someone with only one limb, or an exploit for people to use, is undermined by the OP with their opening line:
    my fathers, brothers, nephew, cousins, former-room mate lost their arm in a duel

    All statements made following that, I read as a bogus argument.
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  • johnny111971johnny111971 Member Posts: 1,300 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    To me (btw I have no digits on my right hand) the OP is looking for a way to justify the use of whatever tool... once a SINGLE case can be made that allows the tool (in the anonymous world of MMO's), that tool can no longer be considered exploitative, or not allowed. This seems to be an attempt to justify the use of bots, macros, scripts, etc. If this is what you are doing, then you should be ashamed.

    If you are being serious OP, then first I apologize for my first comment. Second, Keybinds and a game pad such as Razor Nostromo are all that your family members will need to successfully, and excel, at this game. Macro's, and such are not necessary in the slightest. Needing to use this myself, I am more than happy to talk to you or your family members in game on how to set up the device, and what I find to be efficient keybinds.

    I have multiple characters, multiple classes, participate in all aspects of the game, (PvE, PvP), and have no problems... and think I do quite well.

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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    vocmcp wrote: »
    {snip}

    You are misrepresenting what I said.

    I did not say "you can't use the software". I don't have that authority. I said "use at your own risk".

    I did not say "tough noogies for people with disabilities". Personally, I'm all for giving people with disabilities tools to help them overcome their physical limitations.

    I said, to the best of my knowledge, you can't discuss third-party utilities here. There's no legal requirement I am aware of that forces PWE to allow third-party software to be discussed on their forums. It has nothing whatsoever to do with disabilities.

    Now, if people would like to discuss Accessibility issues in general, the Controls and User Interface forum is a good place to do that. You're still not going to be allowed to discuss auto hot key specifically. But you can feel free to suggest things Cryptic could do to make their user interface more disability-friendly. That would be great feedback.
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  • bridportbridport Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I dont agree with it, the player will have an unfair advantage. If everyone could use it then maybe.
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  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I've decided to take the OP at his word and assumed that this thread is really about Accessibility issues and not about third-party software that some people may or may not be using for purposes other than Accessibility.

    Therefore I have moved the thread to the Controls and UI forum.

    Please limit the discussion to Accessibility issues, challenges playing STO with disabilities, and suggestions about how to overcome those challenges. Feel free to suggest UI enhancements.

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  • rinksterrinkster Member Posts: 3,549 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    bridport wrote: »
    I dont agree with it, the player will have an unfair advantage. If everyone could use it then maybe.

    er.......someone sets up a system so they can play STO with the three fingers they have left on the one hand and that's an unfair advantage?

    Do you think ramps into public buildings give wheelchair users an unfair advantage?


    to the OP and subsequent comments........

    There may come a time when legal requirements treat video games the same as public buildings. When there may be a legal requirement to make them accessible to the differently abled.

    That time is not yet.

    So Cryptic have no obligation to help anyone in this situation.

    However, it seems to me that there is an opportunity here.

    Suppose Cryptic were to, perhaps, dedicate a third of one programmer who works on UIs time to the problem. If that person were to become the point person to reach out to those who do need extra tools to play the game, then instead of relying on outside coding to help things, then it could be brought inhouse.

    And, sometimes, doing things you don't have to do is the right thing to do.
  • vocmcpvocmcp Member Posts: 1,134 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    bluegeek wrote: »
    You are misrepresenting what I said.

    ....

    I said, to the best of my knowledge, you can't discuss third-party utilities here. There's no legal requirement I am aware of that forces PWE to allow third-party software to be discussed on their forums. It has nothing whatsoever to do with disabilities.

    ...

    I don't think I'm misinterpreting anything. You mentioned that the rules state that you're not even allowed to discuss the issue as it may include some third party software. Currently STO does not provide any such means so the only resort would be third party software. This effectively bans a fruitful discussion on possibilities on how impaired people may access the game without having to wait for ages for a Cryptic solution. And frankly..... given that this would increase the (paying) playerbase Cryptic should be thankful about it.

    I know I'm being a bit pedantic here and I don't assume this rule was made with this in mind. As a matter of fact I very well understand why it is there. Unfortunately it also has a negative side effect which we see here. I hope Cryptic can show some "leniency" here.
  • wrathofachilleswrathofachilles Member Posts: 937 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I'm not physically limited to hinder my playing of STO, but I would certainly appreciate a little more automation like autofire for skills. I feel like I spend far too much time staring at the 'dashboard' as it were, playing with the radio, rather than watching the road and driving. I imagine that the ability to put skills like cannon rapid fire that one is popping every time it comes available on autofire so you can pay attention to the field and keep tabs on other more critical abilities would be helpful to everyone, including those with disabilities.

    I know there are plenty of people who say that the functionality is basically already there by using all these convoluted keybinds, but if that's true, then what's the point of not implementing autofire for skills if it already exists but just requires that one construct the keybind and mash keys? And for the "you just want the game to play itself" argument... well, if the functionality already exists, and people are just mashing keys, that requires no more skill than it does to strategically put powers on and off autofire as the situation requires. Inevitably, most of the people who claim autofire is lazy are keymashing keybinders so... yeah, hypocrites.

    Perhaps my input is a bit of a hijack since I'm not disabled, but what can I say, I'm a romulan opportunist, I see leverage to get my sorely missing autofire implemented and I must decloak and fire!
  • tiekosoratiekosora Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    I am a disabled vet. I have lost some use of my right arm, and with the accompanying nerve damage, some loss of use of my fingers on that hand. To that end, I use a game pad, specifically the G13 by Logitech. Far easier to set up than macro scripts in the in-game allowed system. Does it give me an advantage over other players? Maybe if there was another guy out there with my exact disability.

    I think it is important to note that the specific phrasing used that I have seen in regards to this topic, is "Cryptic DOES NOT SUPPORT". That does not at all say Cryptic bans the use of third party software, they do not support it. Other companies have come out and said the same thing about various apps, and their definition of that is, if you have a problem interfacing the app with the game and can't play, they won't help you. So what needs to happen is that if Cryptic has already said they prohibit the use of third party stuff, it needs to be put out there in the very open so all can see. If not, they need to clarify their stance, possibly list programs that are used by players with accessibility issues/disabilities as OK, and a list of those that will get you banned.

    If you believe that PWE or Cryptic is infringing on the rights of disabled players, I would suggest contacting not the Better Business Bureau, but rather the folks at www.AbleGamers.com who are serious advocates for gamers with all manner of disabilities. They often have engineers volunteer to build custom hardware to accommodate players with severe disability. These folks work with game studios specifically in regards to accessibility, and not only know the right people to approach, but the right way to do so.
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