With Projectile DOffs and Photons, you can literally consistently fire 1 off every second.
Thanks to this awesome CD advantage, how long would a match have to be in order for these to outdamage Trannies, all things being equal (no Breen set)/would it be worth to run a full Photon boat over a full Tranny boat for damage?
trans torps do harmless damage. the mines and mines from the breen torp, you notice when you get hit by those. shields have an average of 85% damage resistance to knetic, fireing any torp at them is useless with out the what, 80% penetration mines have?
anyway, that built in resistance makes torps useless, especially when BO exists not having the shield damage issue.
In PvP trany torp is going to win every time... in PvE photon will win by a mile.
As far as people that claim they do tickle dmg... they are very very wrong.
Having said that if you are going to run Tranny torps with no consoles... and no other Torp +dmg buff gear... you might as well run another torp. There base dmg is stupid low... in order to make them an effective weapon you NEED to min max the heck out of them.
My Ultimate torp boat puts there base dmg up to just a hair under 7k base.... yes that is going to not be tickle dmg. If I preload and fire 2 spread 3 patterns with alpha up on that... well I have killed carriers with well timed triple spreads from 100%... that's not tickling.
Based on the title ... my first thought was ... uh oh ... some bad holodeck RPing thread and I was going to suggest it be moved to the RP forum ... or some fleet forum PvP ... um nm.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Not much of a PvPer, but in PvE - using the trans cluster torps from Breen combined with gravity well, tetryong and various other placating skills will give you massive AoE damage. When one ships dies, it'll create a cascading affect that'll keep going if you fire at will and launch full spread torps.. if you can do both.
It's quite the awesome tactic against mobs of npcs.
The imagery this thread title suggests is beyond hilarious, It's going to get a lot of hits from the curious....
Yeah, OP's actual topic is rather anti climatic tbh.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
In PvP trany torp is going to win every time... in PvE photon will win by a mile.
As far as people that claim they do tickle dmg... they are very very wrong.
Having said that if you are going to run Tranny torps with no consoles... and no other Torp +dmg buff gear... you might as well run another torp. There base dmg is stupid low... in order to make them an effective weapon you NEED to min max the heck out of them.
My Ultimate torp boat puts there base dmg up to just a hair under 7k base.... yes that is going to not be tickle dmg. If I preload and fire 2 spread 3 patterns with alpha up on that... well I have killed carriers with well timed triple spreads from 100%... that's not tickling.
Min Max them or go home though.
I'm running 3x Transphasic Compressor Mk XII with the Rule 62 console to boost them on a Wells.
I'd do the same with the Photons, 3x console + Rule 62. I'm trying to figure out if the higher base damage/rate of fire will overcome the lack of increased bleedthrough.
trans torps do harmless damage. the mines and mines from the breen torp, you notice when you get hit by those. shields have an average of 85% damage resistance to knetic, fireing any torp at them is useless with out the what, 80% penetration mines have?
anyway, that built in resistance makes torps useless, especially when BO exists not having the shield damage issue.
I actually get most of my damage from the Tranny torps. The BTCT is too situtational to always be counted for my damage with my build; I only really effectively fire it off once every minute or so when I'm making an EWP strafing run.
They do 'tickle' damage to most (though some people just really get eaten away by them, it's kind of funny), but it adds up over time.
In PvP trany torp is going to win every time... in PvE photon will win by a mile.
As far as people that claim they do tickle dmg... they are very very wrong.
Having said that if you are going to run Tranny torps with no consoles... and no other Torp +dmg buff gear... you might as well run another torp. There base dmg is stupid low... in order to make them an effective weapon you NEED to min max the heck out of them.
My Ultimate torp boat puts there base dmg up to just a hair under 7k base.... yes that is going to not be tickle dmg. If I preload and fire 2 spread 3 patterns with alpha up on that... well I have killed carriers with well timed triple spreads from 100%... that's not tickling.
Min Max them or go home though.
As he said you can do major dmg but you have to max for trans torps - the following shot is of a C/H on my Fed side Reman Sci Fleet T'Varo Trans torp boat - 3rd from the top - Tala
700k in dmg
Still I would like them to increase the bleed through to 60% on trans torps
LMAO! Clearly, another klink who has no idea what he is talking about.
Guess you've never seen the great Failaxy (spelling?) Dun!! Dun!!! Dun!!!
But really, depending on the player, most torpedo boats don't do much damage. That might be the player...but in my experience torpedo boats are usually just annoying. I've had some do crazy damage to my tacscort, but when I'm in a cruiser I usually overheal the damage taken. It could be my two neutroniums and one monotanium alloy I usually use.
I know one can get good DPS with torpedo spread and transphasic torpedoes, but just as spamming FAW all the time hitting multiple targets, most of that damage is just healed over rather than being useful.
I will say though, being cluster torpedo spammed will do crazy damage, but the torpedoes are just meh...maybe upping the bleed through a little is a good idea, but bran (I think it was him) talking about the piercing tetryon DCs said they have to be careful with bleed through as to not make something way OP.
But really, depending on the player, most torpedo boats don't do much damage. That might be the player...but in my experience torpedo boats are usually just annoying.
Because people have this image of torpedo boat = BoP / T'Varo. Those are just annoying, yes. Not all ships are the same however.
I've had some do crazy damage to my tacscort, but when I'm in a cruiser I usually overheal the damage taken. It could be my two neutroniums and one monotanium alloy I usually use.
Cruiser and by extension, tanks, are always tough to crack. It doesn't matter it's a torp boat or FAW beam boat or DHC escorts. The difference is Torp boat's spike attack is functionally different to spike attack using DHC and/or BO. Additionally, Torpedo have a 1 sec delay per launcher so the maximum number of torp that can be launched is usually 1 per sec except Omega torp launcher, which is unique in that it fires every 0.5 sec so long as it has charges available. Therefore, it can't fire simultaneously like a full bank of DHC or Beams do. But it does have the advantage of bunching several Torpedo Spread / Torpedo High Yield together to create an alternative type of alpha similar to back to back BO.
Some cruisers are extremely tanky, others, less. In my experience, a cruiser that relies on armor consoles to protect against bleedthrough damage is underestimating the kind of spike that Torpedo boat can bring. For one thing, a Sci Torp Boat can simultaneously cast both Sensor Scan and APD/B on the said cruiser to completely neutralize your damage resistance. Given the two require two different teams to clear, you can only clear one of them at a time. And assume you run TT, you only partially clear APD but it recasts again as soon as you retaliate until TT runs out. SS will be left intact as it requires ST to clear. At maximum Aux, we are talking about a combined damage resistance debuff of approximately -90 using SS3 + APD1, this is more than enough to wipe out the protection of your 2 neutronium XII purple + 1 monotanium XII purple
I know one can get good DPS with torpedo spread and transphasic torpedoes, but just as spamming FAW all the time hitting multiple targets, most of that damage is just healed over rather than being useful.
If the attack is not intensive enough, indeed, it will be easily healed over. The danger is the Cluster torp synergizes with Transphasic torp in that they both share Transphasic Compressor tact console as their common damage boost. Therefore, torp boat that uses transphasic torp and cluster torp can increase their damages by +120 using 4 purple Transphasic Compressor Mk XII purple. Moreover, there are many ways to tackle down a cruiser. One is to watch your heal buff and time a Subnuke accordingly. With the addition of Web Mines, and the threat of a highly buffed cluster torp and a cruiser's low speed and maneuverability, a torp boat can crank up significant spike damage that can't be resisted through the conventional means that they use against DHC / Beam escorts such as RSP.
I will say though, being cluster torpedo spammed will do crazy damage, but the torpedoes are just meh...maybe upping the bleed through a little is a good idea, but bran (I think it was him) talking about the piercing tetryon DCs said they have to be careful with bleed through as to not make something way OP.
I have a feeling you have yet met a battle-tested torpedo specialist that's why you are underestimating their threats. In my numerous pvp matches, there is no shortage of cruisers blowing up with their full shields on. Part of the reason I think is because the vast majority of people think of DPS as being associated with energy weapon, only a very small minority that uses torpedo at all, let alone torpedo specialist. Here is a pic of a Tal Shiar Battle Cruiser being bombarded by nothing but kinetic Transphasic Torpedos and blew up in flame : Transphasic Torpedo in action
You can see the damages that the successive Torpedo led to the damage numbers displayed and even after the BC took fire and starting to blow up, more torpedo are still on their way. The golden dot you see still flying toward the cruiser is a Transphasic Torpedo. Closer to the Cruiser, you can see what looks like an AOE explosion - that is a naissant TS detonation. Furthermore, you can see the cruiser still had shields when it was killed as its shield is deflecting the kinetic impact of the torpedo but the hull is already gone.
I have a feeling you have yet met a battle-tested torpedo specialist that's why you are underestimating their threats.
I said most, because most of them are terrible. Then there's antoniosalieri who's popped me real fast, and paradise killer in his transphasic Fleet MVAE that's freaking awesome. I even fly a transphasic sci b'rel and I have a fed torpedo boat too. But in general, torpedo boats aren't as spikey as the good old BO.
Anyway, back on topic..I'm interested in what you all figure out. Even if it's what I think, that transphasics are better than photons, I like the out-of-the-box thinking going on..and this thread is wayyyy better than the TRIBBLE fleet drama that's been going on in the forums.
Note: Obviously the damage is going to vary, the shield power/shield damage reduction is going to vary, and the hull's kinetic damage resistance are going to vary.
Base Damage Common Photon Mk X: 2704
Base Damage Common Trans Mk X: 1956
vs. 125 Shield Power Resilient Shields & 33% (Kinetic) Hull
You'd need 6.2210059171597633136094674556213x Photons to do the Hull damage of the Trans.
You'd need 2.3040218132242672119972733469666x Trans to do the Shield damage of the Photons.
vs. no shields & 33% (Kinetic) Hull
2704 * 0.67 = 1811.68
1956 * 0.67 = 1310.52
Photon Cycle: 1/6.5s
Trans Cycle: 1/10.5s
3x VR PWO DOFFs have a 48.8% probability to reduce recharge by 5s. That would drop the Photon to a 1/1.5s cycle and the Trans to a 1/5.5s cycle. Since that cycle is not 6x+ faster, the Photon would never catch the Trans for Hull damage. Given that multiple torps can cause multiple procs (ie, Torp#1 has a 48.8% probability - so does Torp#2...you could get your Trans firing as fast as the Photons).
Also, as previously mentioned in the thread - EPtS, TSS, ExS can further boost the shield's kinetic damage resistance beyond what's already provided by shield power and the innate 75%. Also take into consideration the amount of shield healing that tends to take place...it's just not going to work for PvP. PvE where all of that doesn't happen, well - you get that shield facing down (or on a target with no shields) - then the Photons would be superior.
In general, it's one of the reasons why folks either DHC/Quant or BO/Quant - drop the facing and the Quants hit...score!
Personally though, I prefer that mix of Trans, Grav Wells, TBRs, FBP, etc, etc...or even Plasma Torps/Mines, Grav Wells, TBRs, FBP, etc, etc - to pop folks with full shields. AtB (and teamplay) tends to neuter the Plasma though. Cause even if you SNB the HE off, it's back pretty fast.
With Projectile DOffs and Photons, you can literally consistently fire 1 off every second.
Thanks to this awesome CD advantage, how long would a match have to be in order for these to outdamage Trannies, all things being equal (no Breen set)/would it be worth to run a full Photon boat over a full Tranny boat for damage?
I'm calling upon you, math wizards!
...I know this was focussed on the math, but I am fairly certain that no matter how many doffs or launchers you have, all torpedoes have a shared GCD that means the best rate of fire you can ever get is 1 shot per 3 seconds. So only the Hyper Plasma can do 1 Torp/Second.
...I know this was focussed on the math, but I am fairly certain that no matter how many doffs or launchers you have, all torpedoes have a shared GCD that means the best rate of fire you can ever get is 1 shot per 3 seconds. So only the Hyper Plasma can do 1 Torp/Second.
Nope, they changed that a while back. Now the GCD between torps is only 1 second.
I'm running 3x Transphasic Compressor Mk XII with the Rule 62 console to boost them on a Wells.
I'd do the same with the Photons, 3x console + Rule 62. I'm trying to figure out if the higher base damage/rate of fire will overcome the lack of increased bleedthrough.
Its all about what you want to use them in. For PvE photons will work better (try quantums, with CD reducing doffs they work even better), and for PvP trans are the way to go.
Comments
anyway, that built in resistance makes torps useless, especially when BO exists not having the shield damage issue.
As far as people that claim they do tickle dmg... they are very very wrong.
Having said that if you are going to run Tranny torps with no consoles... and no other Torp +dmg buff gear... you might as well run another torp. There base dmg is stupid low... in order to make them an effective weapon you NEED to min max the heck out of them.
My Ultimate torp boat puts there base dmg up to just a hair under 7k base.... yes that is going to not be tickle dmg. If I preload and fire 2 spread 3 patterns with alpha up on that... well I have killed carriers with well timed triple spreads from 100%... that's not tickling.
Min Max them or go home though.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
It's quite the awesome tactic against mobs of npcs.
Yeah, OP's actual topic is rather anti climatic tbh.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I'm running 3x Transphasic Compressor Mk XII with the Rule 62 console to boost them on a Wells.
I'd do the same with the Photons, 3x console + Rule 62. I'm trying to figure out if the higher base damage/rate of fire will overcome the lack of increased bleedthrough.
I actually get most of my damage from the Tranny torps. The BTCT is too situtational to always be counted for my damage with my build; I only really effectively fire it off once every minute or so when I'm making an EWP strafing run.
They do 'tickle' damage to most (though some people just really get eaten away by them, it's kind of funny), but it adds up over time.
As he said you can do major dmg but you have to max for trans torps - the following shot is of a C/H on my Fed side Reman Sci Fleet T'Varo Trans torp boat - 3rd from the top - Tala
700k in dmg
Still I would like them to increase the bleed through to 60% on trans torps
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5338/9cjq.png
LMAO! Clearly, another klink who has no idea what he is talking about.
um...that's because some builds don't care about shields... Maybe this is news to you but it's clear you really haven't traveled much.
Apples and oranges, I don't even know where to begin. I think it's best I just refrain from commenting any further.
Guess you've never seen the great Failaxy (spelling?) Dun!! Dun!!! Dun!!!
But really, depending on the player, most torpedo boats don't do much damage. That might be the player...but in my experience torpedo boats are usually just annoying. I've had some do crazy damage to my tacscort, but when I'm in a cruiser I usually overheal the damage taken. It could be my two neutroniums and one monotanium alloy I usually use.
I know one can get good DPS with torpedo spread and transphasic torpedoes, but just as spamming FAW all the time hitting multiple targets, most of that damage is just healed over rather than being useful.
I will say though, being cluster torpedo spammed will do crazy damage, but the torpedoes are just meh...maybe upping the bleed through a little is a good idea, but bran (I think it was him) talking about the piercing tetryon DCs said they have to be careful with bleed through as to not make something way OP.
Because people have this image of torpedo boat = BoP / T'Varo. Those are just annoying, yes. Not all ships are the same however.
Cruiser and by extension, tanks, are always tough to crack. It doesn't matter it's a torp boat or FAW beam boat or DHC escorts. The difference is Torp boat's spike attack is functionally different to spike attack using DHC and/or BO. Additionally, Torpedo have a 1 sec delay per launcher so the maximum number of torp that can be launched is usually 1 per sec except Omega torp launcher, which is unique in that it fires every 0.5 sec so long as it has charges available. Therefore, it can't fire simultaneously like a full bank of DHC or Beams do. But it does have the advantage of bunching several Torpedo Spread / Torpedo High Yield together to create an alternative type of alpha similar to back to back BO.
Some cruisers are extremely tanky, others, less. In my experience, a cruiser that relies on armor consoles to protect against bleedthrough damage is underestimating the kind of spike that Torpedo boat can bring. For one thing, a Sci Torp Boat can simultaneously cast both Sensor Scan and APD/B on the said cruiser to completely neutralize your damage resistance. Given the two require two different teams to clear, you can only clear one of them at a time. And assume you run TT, you only partially clear APD but it recasts again as soon as you retaliate until TT runs out. SS will be left intact as it requires ST to clear. At maximum Aux, we are talking about a combined damage resistance debuff of approximately -90 using SS3 + APD1, this is more than enough to wipe out the protection of your 2 neutronium XII purple + 1 monotanium XII purple
If the attack is not intensive enough, indeed, it will be easily healed over. The danger is the Cluster torp synergizes with Transphasic torp in that they both share Transphasic Compressor tact console as their common damage boost. Therefore, torp boat that uses transphasic torp and cluster torp can increase their damages by +120 using 4 purple Transphasic Compressor Mk XII purple. Moreover, there are many ways to tackle down a cruiser. One is to watch your heal buff and time a Subnuke accordingly. With the addition of Web Mines, and the threat of a highly buffed cluster torp and a cruiser's low speed and maneuverability, a torp boat can crank up significant spike damage that can't be resisted through the conventional means that they use against DHC / Beam escorts such as RSP.
I have a feeling you have yet met a battle-tested torpedo specialist that's why you are underestimating their threats. In my numerous pvp matches, there is no shortage of cruisers blowing up with their full shields on. Part of the reason I think is because the vast majority of people think of DPS as being associated with energy weapon, only a very small minority that uses torpedo at all, let alone torpedo specialist. Here is a pic of a Tal Shiar Battle Cruiser being bombarded by nothing but kinetic Transphasic Torpedos and blew up in flame : Transphasic Torpedo in action
You can see the damages that the successive Torpedo led to the damage numbers displayed and even after the BC took fire and starting to blow up, more torpedo are still on their way. The golden dot you see still flying toward the cruiser is a Transphasic Torpedo. Closer to the Cruiser, you can see what looks like an AOE explosion - that is a naissant TS detonation. Furthermore, you can see the cruiser still had shields when it was killed as its shield is deflecting the kinetic impact of the torpedo but the hull is already gone.
I said most, because most of them are terrible. Then there's antoniosalieri who's popped me real fast, and paradise killer in his transphasic Fleet MVAE that's freaking awesome. I even fly a transphasic sci b'rel and I have a fed torpedo boat too. But in general, torpedo boats aren't as spikey as the good old BO.
Anyway, back on topic..I'm interested in what you all figure out. Even if it's what I think, that transphasics are better than photons, I like the out-of-the-box thinking going on..and this thread is wayyyy better than the TRIBBLE fleet drama that's been going on in the forums.
Base Damage Common Photon Mk X: 2704
Base Damage Common Trans Mk X: 1956
vs. 125 Shield Power Resilient Shields & 33% (Kinetic) Hull
2704 * 0.95 * 0.25 * 0.65 = 417.43 Shield
2704 * 0.05 * 0.67 = 90.584 Hull
1956 * 0.57 * 0.25 * 0.65 = 181.1745 Shield
1956 * 0.43 * 0.67 = 563.5236 Hull
You'd need 6.2210059171597633136094674556213x Photons to do the Hull damage of the Trans.
You'd need 2.3040218132242672119972733469666x Trans to do the Shield damage of the Photons.
vs. no shields & 33% (Kinetic) Hull
2704 * 0.67 = 1811.68
1956 * 0.67 = 1310.52
Photon Cycle: 1/6.5s
Trans Cycle: 1/10.5s
3x VR PWO DOFFs have a 48.8% probability to reduce recharge by 5s. That would drop the Photon to a 1/1.5s cycle and the Trans to a 1/5.5s cycle. Since that cycle is not 6x+ faster, the Photon would never catch the Trans for Hull damage. Given that multiple torps can cause multiple procs (ie, Torp#1 has a 48.8% probability - so does Torp#2...you could get your Trans firing as fast as the Photons).
Also, as previously mentioned in the thread - EPtS, TSS, ExS can further boost the shield's kinetic damage resistance beyond what's already provided by shield power and the innate 75%. Also take into consideration the amount of shield healing that tends to take place...it's just not going to work for PvP. PvE where all of that doesn't happen, well - you get that shield facing down (or on a target with no shields) - then the Photons would be superior.
In general, it's one of the reasons why folks either DHC/Quant or BO/Quant - drop the facing and the Quants hit...score!
Personally though, I prefer that mix of Trans, Grav Wells, TBRs, FBP, etc, etc...or even Plasma Torps/Mines, Grav Wells, TBRs, FBP, etc, etc - to pop folks with full shields. AtB (and teamplay) tends to neuter the Plasma though. Cause even if you SNB the HE off, it's back pretty fast.
is this supposed to be a serious post?
yes DDIS he thinks you are a PvP noob that does not know any of the games mechanics.
...I know this was focussed on the math, but I am fairly certain that no matter how many doffs or launchers you have, all torpedoes have a shared GCD that means the best rate of fire you can ever get is 1 shot per 3 seconds. So only the Hyper Plasma can do 1 Torp/Second.
This is exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
Nope, they changed that a while back. Now the GCD between torps is only 1 second.
Its all about what you want to use them in. For PvE photons will work better (try quantums, with CD reducing doffs they work even better), and for PvP trans are the way to go.