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Intro to PVP Video

thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
edited July 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Hi! I messed this video up BIG TIME!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B9MP3dB1Fc&feature=c4-overview&list=UUAAgaD-zbotq2By_2-8qqIg

The idea was to present THREE points that I believe are very important for a person to agree to BEFORE they ever actually PVP. In any sort of game really. The following is posted to clarify the crappy video.

First, you can't consider your MMO 'just a game' any longer. The PVP slider is always potentially set to "insane" so please just give up on 'casual'. If you can't give the same amount of respect to an MMO as you would the stylized forms of PVP called Rugby, Football, or Table Tennis well PVP isn't for you. You need to realize that an MMO is at least a hobby that you spend your valuable time on. That time is important. Respect your play time.

Second. It's an MMO. So there are OTHERS. There time is important as well. Respect that as well. And MAKE SOME FRIENDS. Seriously. Don't be like me. Make some friends. You have a HOBBY you enjoy, enjoy it with friends. And also....want to get really really angry and disgusted with PVP? Do it alone. Works like a charm. Make some friends using the forum and the in game channels! Do these things FIRST!

Third. Get FRAPS or some other video capture program. NO EXCUSES. NONE! FREE! If you are SERIOUS about enjoying yourself you OWE it to yourself to have good toys! Please. This is a no brainer. You have professional quality tools you can use to improve your ability in ANY GAME. Make use of them.

I know players that STILL do NOT realize how fast, brutal, and unforgiving STO pvp can be. They think it's magic and hax. It isn't. But you can only really see what happened if you record it and play it back in slow motion. You will improve by doing this. That is a fact and not open to debate. If you don't do it, you're just holding yourself back. Think you suck? You could be good. Think you're good? You could be better.

Anyway sorry for the crappy video. Cheers!
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    2 and a half seconds is plenty of time to push that extra mouse button that triggers my TT bind, and even the button next to it that fired off all my heals if need be. if you dont like being a squeaky animal baby, bind life saving measures today! you cant click it on your trey faster then you can activate a bind on your keyboard or mouse. dont use TT unless you absolutely need it too. getting shoot does not necessitate activating TT. thats the only thing saving you from the cloaked raider you dont know about yet. that guy watching your cooldowns carefully, knowing what options you will have available once they attack.


    another good way to protect yourself from instant death is to have comrades in arms! opvp tends to be full of people ready to group. the best way to deal with premades is to bring your own, not complain about other people correctly playing this game like its a team game. call targets and heal each other, and you will be shocked how much more effective your team will be
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    thissler wrote: »
    MAKE SOME FRIENDS.

    Never!

    I click X on all the friend requests...just leaving them in limbo. ;)
  • crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Good points, good video, and as you already know, the bunny was kinda hard to understand.

    Oh, and one of these days I'm gonna teach you when to use "too" instead of "to". :P
    __________________________________
    STO Forum member since before February 2010.
    STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
    I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
  • jaegernljaegernl Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Can we be friends? :(
    Isaac the Adequate - Level 70 Oath of Devotion Paladin
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    jaegernl wrote: »
    Can we be friends? :(

    Then you shouldn't have blown her up. ;)

    To the OP, it was a joke what was said in chat, Julius saved your behind before, remember that.
  • panserbjorne39panserbjorne39 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I choose to be a nerd. A happy nerd. =) I love the videos and I'm learning a lot. Thanks.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    crusty8mac wrote: »
    Good points, good video, and as you already know, the bunny was kinda hard to understand.

    Oh, and one of these days I'm gonna teach you when to use "too" instead of "to". :P

    You know I'm looking through posts trying to see when I messed that up. I'm going to search until I find it! If you think that's too much work for my pretty little head you have another thing coming to you! I bet the two of us would get along famously if we went to dinner and a movie too!

    Cheers!
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    spam stack buff/debuff.
    alpha dakka.
    next.

    i agree, cheese is neither hax nor magic, but then cheese is how2play in this game, hence why i play other games for pvp.

    So wait...applying buffs and potential debuffs to a target...is cheese? You say you play other games for PvP, so if you're here - then you must play STO for PvE? Er, do you not apply buffs and potential debuffs in PvE? Or do you just run ships without BOFFs, don't use Captain abilities, or any clicky-soles and just...um...fire weapons?
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    People got along just fine in PvE before Rep. They got along just fine in PvE before Fleet Ships and Lockbox Ships...Fleet Gear and Lockbox/Lobi Gear. Folks got along just fine in PvE before oh so many things were added...

    ...and even with all that being added, the PvE has still been nerfed along the way as well.

    For folks that feel the need to have all the stuff that's been added to be able to do what many took for granted without all the stuff that's been added...

    ...then no, STO PvP might not be the place for them.

    Then again, it wouldn't have been the place for them even before everything was added. Just saying...
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    point well missed....

    Um...no.
    skollulfr wrote: »
    if im playing sole pve & run into one of the many difficulty spikes

    Point made.

    /facepalm
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  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    no choice in the matter if you want to blow through a million hp before nanite spheres come along & fix it all. primarily im here because i like startrek.


    Ok after that nothing else matters. Good choice.

    i still think the entire power set and how they work is a load of clunky, spammy unrefined leftover bunk from the 90s with broken to non existant cost benefit play-offs.

    This statement is nonsensical.

    "yay look i can macro! wooo!"

    The game engine doesn't accept macros in the same way that Rift or WoW does. Or many other games as well. STO is not very macro friendly.

    "i can bind a bucnh of keys together to spam off some powers whos only cost is that theyl be on cd timers! woo!"

    Right. Like a macro. Except STO doesn't play like that. Anyway CD's are a basic tool that designers use to set tempo in real time games. Just because there are no "turns" don't think that there are no "turns". There's a sequence to events. It may be malleable and it may be determined by who does what first and you personally may not have progressed to the point where you can make that distinction but rest assured turns are there. CD's are an inherent part of these types of games, they ARE the denomination of cost.

    " i dound shield distro to my lmb so it goes off every time i click to semi-automate what should be inherent functinality rather that needless micro"

    There was a time when manual shield distribution was far more important than it is now. It is always important to engage the player. Oh, so you were too busy to distribute? Too bad. Nowadays that binding won't help as much as before, but it is still valid to require the players input.

    yea... there would need to by a lot of dragging out of the gaming stonage done before i would enjoy pvp here, and having to fight the interface as i fight another player isnt going to encourage me.

    "oh look, activation timers to limit the number of powers i can activate at teh same time, just because a less intrusive costing system to the powers wasnt done"


    STO doesn't include a Global Cooldown. Of course it won't accept simultaneous commands so there is a limit to how fast you can activate abilities. The rapid activation of abilities has always been a key part of STO, and part of what makes it beyond the grasp of some players. Without the governance of a global cooldown some players are wont to explode all their abilities too quickly leaving nothing for reserve. There are system cooldowns though. Those exist in sto although some of the original restrictions have been lifted.

    *shrugs*

    (edit) and i wouldnt be doing the team pve for the julemberenth time if it wasnt for the fact that i can see the effect of the rep bonuses when im playing a toon without them, id stick to the foundry.

    It seems you really just don't understand how CD's were implemented in this game. Thats OK that isn't uncommon. It's very different from most other MMO's and can be quite a challenge to players used to those other games.

    If you DID understand how they were implemented, you wouldn't have made the statements you made. So don't slip into denial. Understand how the CD's work and most of the points you brought up will just go away.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    condescend elsewhere.

    It's not condescension. It's a simple reality. Cryptic has continued to pump in more and more powerful items while not only not increasing PvE difficulty but actually decreasing the difficulty. So for certain players, PvP is not going to be the place for them...obviously.

    I'm not good enough (either in PvP or PvE) to be condescending toward anybody. But that doesn't change that if somebody is having difficulty in PvE (outside of something like NWS), then they're likely in for a world of hurt regarding PvP. It's not going to be their thing. It's blunt, but it's not condescending in the least.

    Many people simply want to feel like the hero - and - Cryptic is doing everything in its power to make sure as many people as possible can feel that way. Big ol' monster farms where NPCs wait for players to come pwn them. That's a PvE thing, though. In PvP, somebody's going to get popped. Somebody's not going to be the "hero"...and...that's just not fun for some folks.

    As long as games have continued to reach as many customers as possible, by including all sorts of special gear/powerups/etc/etc/etc...they have increased issues on the PvP side. Because Player A that doesn't need XYZ to do 123 comes across Player B that does need XYZ to do 123...only Player A does have XYZ as well, so Player B gets spanked.

    Thissler's videos are not Thissler pats on the back - they're educational. Folks can see what folks are not doing or are doing wrong...so do what they're not doing or don't do what they're doing. They're an opportunity for people to learn, to get better, etc, etc, etc.

    edit: I wanted to come back and comment on this part below.

    Some people aren't going to like that, though...they just want to drop photon grenades in barrels of fish and be the man. That's kind of sad...

    That's somewhat out of place. Different folks will play for different reasons, but imho - they need to be honest about it.

    I was out smoking and thinking about the games the girlfriend plays. She plays Farmerama as well as Candy Crush/clones on Facebook and enjoys hidden object/adventure games. While Farmerama does require effort on her part, it's not challenging effort - it's a timesink where she gets a sense of accomplishment from having done tasks. She gets bored at times, but she's been doing it so long - she keeps doing it.

    On the other hand, she really enjoys the challenge from the other games. She gets a major sense of accomplishment from beating a certain level and then moving on to the next challenge with the Candy Crush-like games. She looks for the next/more difficult adventure game after finishing one.

    So it's not fair to say it's sad that enjoys one of the types there - because she's honest about the enjoyment that she gets out of each. She's not looking at Farmerama as if it's the same challenge that she's getting from her other games. She generally has fun either way...

    ...but imagine if her other games were just like Farmerama? She'd be losing out, and she'd know it.
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  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Maybe you're thinking about ground. Ground is full of activation times. Space isn't. And no STO doesn't accept macro's well, and certainly not in the same manner as the games I mentioned.

    So 90's? Did you just call CD's clunky and 90's? Is that when you think CD's were developed? Dude it isn't just basic it's INTRINSIC. C'mon now. There's NO global, there are SOME ( not effing many as a percentage) activation times on abilities (plainly to discourage use in pvp) you don't like way those tools are being used fine. But at least understand them. It isn't the interface that needs fiddling, its you.

    Stop. It is clear you just don't understand and wish to backpedal and be stubborn. That's fine. You like Star Trek, great. Leave it there.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Most abilities have a 0.5s activation timer. Even weapons have that 0.5s activation timer. Some do not have the 0.5s activation. Some actually have a 1.0s activation timer.

    Take into account potential UI lag, overall latency, and reaction time...one may never notice the 0.5s timers but the 1.0s timers can be killer.

    A quirky example would be Miracle Worker (1.0s) vs. 3x BO. If you MW on the 2nd BO, you're already dead...MW will trigger after you've popped.

    Course, piddling about over 0.5s activation timers is pretty much moot - since, well - the majority of us can't count that fast. By the time we've started to say half...it's already happened.

    Of course, there's also the issue that an activation timer is not a GCD as stated. Just because Ability X has an activation timer does not prevent you from using Ability Y (which will likely have it's own activation timer). They're independent.

    Further of course, is that pesky UI lag - which can give the appearance of a GCD even though one does not exist and why many will attempt to keybind rather than click. While the possibility of general I/O lag can still exist, it tends to be less noticeable with a keybind than a click (even going beyond the time that it may require to move the mouse into position to click and performing the click itself).
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    like i said, that mechanic is there to make macros harder to use, since you either need to script it accounting for the activation times, or much like the ingame keybind stacking, mash the key until all associated powers are up.

    Nothing I said supports what you're saying here.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    skollulfr wrote: »
    your point?

    Why did you quote what I said then?
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