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Tholian Web Mines

darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
edited July 2013 in PvP Gameplay
More and more I'm seeing Tholian Web Mines being the precursor to taking a healthy ship to a dead ship in just a few seconds.

What are people's opinions about this? Do people think that they've been set correctly or do people think they're too strong? Me, I think their duration should be lessened a little bit.
Post edited by darramouss1 on
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Comments

  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    More and more I'm seeing Tholian Web Mines being the precursor to taking a healthy ship to a dead ship in just a few seconds.

    What are people's opinions about this? Do people think that they've been set correctly or do people think they're too strong? Me, I think their duration should be lessened a little bit.

    I've seen them take a Recluse from 100% shields and hull to dead in 4 seconds with no fire from any other weapons.
  • borgressistanceborgressistance Member Posts: 268 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    i thik they are oke,with a few exceptions:

    1,

    when someone is "specced"into them.

    max mine/torp damage and such, running high aux and weapon power.

    2.

    when using it as a main weapon.
    the mine's dont do really bad damage until used with dispersal attack pattern beta 2/3
    if you have 9 of those mines chasing you, you know you are a dead men.

    3,

    when used by more as 1 player in pvp, a full team using them isnt gonna work.

    the funny part is, that the same 3 points apply to most stuff thats considerd op or cheese.

    tif,graviton generator, pets with tractor beams etc etc, same apply's to them, 1 or 2 players using it is oke, more or players who are specially specced for it, hurts.
  • voxlagindvoxlagind Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
  • shailatshailat Member Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    voxlagind wrote: »
    Thank you! It's about time that someone spoke up about these.

    again? isnt there like 2 post already on this topic?
    ogew7.jpg
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    shailat wrote: »
    again? isnt there like 2 post already on this topic?

    Yet no word from the Devs...
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    skurf wrote: »
    I've seen them take a Recluse from 100% shields and hull to dead in 4 seconds with no fire from any other weapons.

    Holy cow!! That's a bit much!!

    I do think they're a little strong. They stop you more effectively than cloaked tractor mines, they do more damage that tricobalt mines and they know your BOff abilities offline. It's like having three very powerful abilities for the price of a rear weapons slot. And their cooldown isn't super long.

    Is there any word from Cryptic as to whether they're working as intended or are they slated for adjustment?
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Holy cow!! That's a bit much!!

    I do think they're a little strong. They stop you more effectively than cloaked tractor mines, they do more damage that tricobalt mines and they know your BOff abilities offline. It's like having three very powerful abilities for the price of a rear weapons slot. And their cooldown isn't super long.

    Is there any word from Cryptic as to whether they're working as intended or are they slated for adjustment?

    WAD
    psw stun -> nerfed
    Vm disable -> nerfed
    Trics -> nerfed


    New toy to give it all to tac/escorts in one package : check

    Like most cc powers. Nerf em in sci and give it to tacs.
  • seansamurai1seansamurai1 Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    That's funny you mention tacs in this, its like a broken record.

    Even stranger is the only web mines to kill me and kill others have ALL been sci ships.

    As a Tac, I can tell you mine are pretty useless other than the stun.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    use dispersal patterns which need tac lt n up Bo slots. Buff with the usual apa goodness enjoy.

    Try to do the same with sci consoles, deflectors, skill tree, and sensor scan..... That's why I brought up tacs.


    Multiple tac console won't hurt either

    Systems for whatever reasons seems intend to make apa the best buff for cc n stuns. The sense lies somewhere in geckos spreadsheet. Sci stuns-> too strong gotta nerf those *pewpew*
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The last time I was nailed by web mines was when I was in a cruiser (a pretty solid tank) and got hit by mines launched with a dispersal pattern from a MVAM escort.

    After getting fired upon by one of their escorts and one of their cruisers for over a minute I had close to maximum shields and roughly 95% hull. Then I get hit by web mines. A few seconds later it was over. I'm pretty sure that my crew didn't even have time to make it to the escape pods.
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey guys,

    We tracked down an edge case with some weird math involving skill points and their effects on the damage of these mines. In most normal cases, they were behaving as expected - however, in this edge case, they were getting multiplicatively stronger than expected. In the not-too-distant future, we should have a fix for this behavior.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey guys,

    We tracked down an edge case with some weird math involving skill points and their effects on the damage of these mines. In most normal cases, they were behaving as expected - however, in this edge case, they were getting multiplicatively stronger than expected. In the not-too-distant future, we should have a fix for this behavior.

    Excellent. I'm glad that there has been some work done on this, though I still fully expect people to call 'nerf', just as they have on stuff in the past that was only bug fixes. Still, it's good to know that something WAS up with these in some cases.

    I do have a question Hawk: Are they doing the appropriate amount of bleed through damage? Because it seems like they would totally ignore shields sometimes.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    well thats something anyway. still, they should not deal unresistable damage
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey guys,

    We tracked down an edge case with some weird math involving skill points and their effects on the damage of these mines. In most normal cases, they were behaving as expected - however, in this edge case, they were getting multiplicatively stronger than expected. In the not-too-distant future, we should have a fix for this behavior.

    Thanks for looking in to this. They're a cool item and when they're fixed and balanced they'll be even cooler.

    Here's to hoping we don't get the people complaining nerf when they're fixed. As far as I'm concerned, fixing a bug so it performs as it always should have is NOT a nerf!!
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey guys,

    We tracked down an edge case with some weird math involving skill points and their effects on the damage of these mines. In most normal cases, they were behaving as expected - however, in this edge case, they were getting multiplicatively stronger than expected. In the not-too-distant future, we should have a fix for this behavior.

    Thank you for looking into this.

    By edge case, do you mean that it happens infrequently or that when only a specific set of buffs are applied?
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Thank you for looking into this.

    By edge case, do you mean that it happens infrequently or that when only a specific set of buffs are applied?

    I'll tell you after they're fixed. :P
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey guys,

    We tracked down an edge case with some weird math involving skill points and their effects on the damage of these mines. In most normal cases, they were behaving as expected - however, in this edge case, they were getting multiplicatively stronger than expected. In the not-too-distant future, we should have a fix for this behavior.

    No wonder people were reporting such variable experiences! Thanks for looking into it.

    Edit: Now that I think about it, it feels like a lot of the stuff after LoR was double-dipping or otherwise getting multiplicatively stronger (Valdore console, etc.). Could this be a symptom of an underlying problem somewhere?
  • frtoasterfrtoaster Member Posts: 3,354 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hey guys,

    We tracked down an edge case with some weird math involving skill points and their effects on the damage of these mines. In most normal cases, they were behaving as expected - however, in this edge case, they were getting multiplicatively stronger than expected. In the not-too-distant future, we should have a fix for this behavior.

    Are the web mines supposed to be dealing physical damage rather than kinetic damage? As far as I know, physical damage is the damage type of ground melee attacks.
    Waiting for a programmer ...
    qVpg1km.png
  • adjudicatorhawkadjudicatorhawk Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    frtoaster wrote: »
    Are the web mines supposed to be dealing physical damage rather than kinetic damage? As far as I know, physical damage is the damage type of ground melee attacks.

    I asked around and they're intentionally doing Physical damage right now, but we're debating changing them to do kinetic damage.
    Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
    Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
    Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
  • johnny111971johnny111971 Member Posts: 1,300 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I asked around and they're intentionally doing Physical damage right now, but we're debating changing them to do kinetic damage.

    Thanks Hawk. I'd +1 moving to kinetic, the only downside i see is due to current resists (new consoles, etc) is that the damage would then become negligible... but still be a useful CC... keeping the stun of course.

    Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I asked around and they're intentionally doing Physical damage right now, but we're debating changing them to do kinetic damage.

    Kinetic would be awesome.

    It keeps in line with existing mine damage types and can be properly resisted. The Nukara Mines still prove to be desirable due to their additional CC aspects, so it's not like it's a nerf.

    As it stands, Physical damage can not be resisted and that hurts :(

    A Recluse going from 100% hull and shields to 0 in the blink of an eye sucks.
  • caldannachcaldannach Member Posts: 485 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Why has the OP opened a 3rd thread about the same issue?

    Its quite clear to see that the other 2 threads are always bumped onto the first page pf pvp threads, there was no need to make another.
    " Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    caldannach wrote: »
    Why has the OP opened a 3rd thread about the same issue?

    Its quite clear to see that the other 2 threads are always bumped onto the first page pf pvp threads, there was no need to make another.

    This one got a Dev answer, though, so it's now the most pertinent one.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    havam wrote: »
    WAD
    psw stun -> nerfed
    Vm disable -> nerfed
    Trics -> nerfed


    New toy to give it all to tac/escorts in one package : check

    Like most cc powers. Nerf em in sci and give it to tacs.

    As someone who has 6 level 50 tacs and plays them 80% of time I would like nothing more then to give it back and see these mines deleted from the server and devs admitting to a mistake in introducing them, or at least nerfed.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    ya lose the physical damage, that doesn't even make sense in space, thats unarmed ground damage. also change the risan yacht impulse wake damage too, it deals physical damage as well.
  • jacknm1jacknm1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nerf...the wake isnt much of a threat though, only targets within 2km of your backside are effected, and ive seen no real damage from it.

    Also to bump, it seems that engine power and points in ID seem to resist the damage taken from these mines, I.e. my Tac has been caught in these mines many times, never once died nor taken more than 20% damage, He runs high Engine power and 6 points in ID.

    My sci healer however runs fairly lower engine power and has 6 points in ID, and has been taken from 100% to 20% in about 4 seconds....

    as a control test i got the same person to mine both my characters with exactly the same setup, again my tac on showed a small amount of damage and my sci died completely.

    and as a side note, eng team may not provide a clear for web mines but it does provide a good deal of resists, i hit eng team on my sci with the mines active, hull heal and the mines were not nearly as effective.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I asked around and they're intentionally doing Physical damage right now, but we're debating changing them to do kinetic damage.

    Please make this happen. With the bug fix, and the change to kinetic, it would still be a good weapon, just not stupid OP.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I asked around and they're intentionally doing Physical damage right now, but we're debating changing them to do kinetic damage.

    Why would you want them dealing Physical damage anyway? Why? That has no effect in PvE to my knowledge and would only serve to make them much more dangerous in PvP than they should be.
  • whoami2whoami2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    voxlagind wrote: »
    Thank you! It's about time that someone spoke up about these.

    Agreed! xD
  • darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I support the change to kinetic. Even if their damage can be resisted, you're still held in place with no access to your BOff abilities. I kinda think that that's strong enough!!
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