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PVP is now slow..

linkjoylinkjoy Member Posts: 60 Arc User
edited July 2013 in PvP Gameplay
I hate to break it you Cryptic, PVP is starting to lose it's player base since you refuse to fix it.

I was in an Arena que for like 10 minutes and Capture and Hold about 20. Yup I timed it.

Since it is losing it popularity, you honestly need to make the win conditions down to like 8 or 10 instead of 15 for the Arena.

And like half of what Capture and Hold is. it's boring too long and just not worth it after awhile.

And I guess you are starting to lose your player base, because never in my 3 years since I played this have seen the Que THAT slow.
Post edited by linkjoy on
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Comments

  • jumpingjsjumpingjs Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You said it yourself,

    PvP has no real popularity.

    I suck at PvP, mainly by choice, as well I am not the best, quite good, but not the best.
    Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

    I hope STO get's better ...
  • lykumlykum Member Posts: 382
    edited July 2013
    wanna pvp bad, my comp can't handle going fast or getting spammed. so whats the point until I get a new comp anyway??

    not just pvp problems keeping people from pvp...
    Lyndon Brewer: 20% chance to capture enemy ship for 60 seconds on successful use of boarding party.

    cause sometimes its party time!
  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The following are a few reason why a lot don't like PvP

    Cost to be competitive among equally skilled players is high. This is especially bad when someone has a lot of characters they all want to play equally. So expensive and time consuming to get high quality gear,duty officers,special ships, special traits and so on.

    They need to have a PvP game that only allows common quality stuff to be used from leveling up ships to common weapons and other common stuff. If they had that I would do PvP more because the fights would be better never having someone totally out gearing another.

    Rewards just are not good enough. I can get better rewards just doing Elite STF missions.

    Some people just don't like to lose.
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited July 2013
    Yesterday I found the Fed vs Fed Q's were packed - literally I Q'd for 2 arenas and 1 c/h and did not wait more than 30 seconds each time - back to back!
  • linkjoylinkjoy Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Arenas are the most popular because it's all PEW PEW. Capture and Hold can take FOREVER.
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Lol, when was It ever fast, there always a wait I've gone to the bathroom and made a sandwich before the PvP ever popped..... And ground I could go to the store and back
    GwaoHAD.png
  • linkjoylinkjoy Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    Lol, when was It ever fast, there always a wait I've gone to the bathroom and made a sandwich before the PvP ever popped..... And ground I could go to the store and back

    that's very impressive
  • skanvakskanvak Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Well, I have try a few pvp and I got quite exploded by Scimitar. On capture and hold, the klingon influence always stay at max so I wonder if it is broken or if we are really bad.

    Anyway, I think that letting people using there gear is good, I quite don't like the kind of "we are all the same" pvp of other MMO BUT you need a way to balance it (even though I hate balancing). In a way ship should be rated (A scimitar or a dreadnough worth more than a standard cruiser). Then the limit should be in ship point so that you won't find 5 Scimitar against 5 constitutions.

    Another mitigating system is a rank system where high ranking player take more slot than low ranking player.

    Last but not least, Arena and capture and hold (holding Spoace :D ) are just boring. We need something at stake (pvp should have an impact on the world) and we need more attractive scenario (like a Starbase assault, with the possibility to beam on the starbase to have space and gound battle at the same time. Or Huge Battle with NPC cruiser and PC cruiser on both side.

    Possibilities are only limited by the investment Cryptic want to make in STO.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,991 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    This is the best news I've heard lately.

    Maybe after it's gone we can get just Star Trek and not magic sci powers.
  • alopenalopen Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Yesterday I found the Fed vs Fed Q's were packed - literally I Q'd for 2 arenas and 1 c/h and did not wait more than 30 seconds each time - back to back!

    Funny you mention that, I made a Fed aligned Rom specifically to address the carebear problem. :D With Roms on both sides I have to agree with the movement to make the queues unifaction and just go red vs. blue.
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited July 2013
    Well, Ker'rat always seems to have people to shoot at. Perhaps the OP can try that as well, especially if he's KDF. . .never enough KDF players to hunt the farmers.

    And for those who think 'good riddance', please take into consideration that it is PvP players that are capable of testing the game mechanics properly, to ensure that they're set up the way they're supposed to be. Rarely does PvE do that. PvE also doesn't challenge people to the same extent.

    I'd say there are two main reasons why PvP isn't terribly popular: One is the lack of rewards. . .you could spend 3 hours pew-pewing in Ker'rat (like I just did last night) and gain effectively nothing (since the idiotic rotation system for KDF PvP missions ensured I had no ker'rat applicable missions at the time). The same goes for arena and C+H. . .if you don't have a mission for them, they're not really worth the time you put into it.

    The second is the lack of options.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Maybe you're just not on around peak times - I've never had to wait that long for a match to get started.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    This is the best news I've heard lately.

    Maybe after it's gone we can get just Star Trek and not magic sci powers.

    The entire game is based around 'magic buffs', not just PvP... so PvP nor it's population has anything to do (at all) with what you perceive to be 'real star trek.'
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Personally I don't PvP because of massive number of childish insults handed out in PvP matches.

    I'd work on fixing the PvP playerbase, before I'd try to fix the game-mode.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited July 2013
    The following are a few reason why a lot don't like PvP

    Cost to be competitive among equally skilled players is high. This is especially bad when someone has a lot of characters they all want to play equally. So expensive and time consuming to get high quality gear,duty officers,special ships, special traits and so on.

    They need to have a PvP game that only allows common quality stuff to be used from leveling up ships to common weapons and other common stuff. If they had that I would do PvP more because the fights would be better never having someone totally out gearing another.

    Rewards just are not good enough. I can get better rewards just doing Elite STF missions.

    Some people just don't like to lose.

    I think you're looking at the whole thing wrong.

    Gear, in of itself, is not the primary thing to keep in mind. One can realistically PvP with a mixture of blue and purple Mk XI items and maybe a Borg, MACO, or KHG set and an okay warp core. That's essentially what I'm running in my hit-and-run BoP, and I still get kills. I run a Fleet Norgh, but I was still kicking TRIBBLE back when I was using a Hegh'ta against Fleet ships and the like. You do have to know what the heck you're doing, though. You have to be using a proper build for your ship, and you have to know how to use that build. I don't believe ANYBODY starts kicking TRIBBLE the first time they PvP, it's a learning experience. This is a good thing. You need to practice and figure out what works for you in PvP.

    You could pit TRH, Sad Panda, or other top-level players against your average PvPer with both sides using common gear, and the elite players would win. . .simply by dint of having more PvP experience, coordination experience, and personal skill. The only way to compensate for that is to have some sort of tiering system that separates the new players from the inexperienced ones. . .and even then, that doesn't stop asshats from creating new players and griefing the new-to-PvP folks.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    timezarg wrote: »
    I think you're looking at the whole thing wrong.

    Gear, in of itself, is not the primary thing to keep in mind. One can realistically PvP with a mixture of blue and purple Mk XI items and maybe a Borg, MACO, or KHG set and an okay warp core. That's essentially what I'm running in my hit-and-run BoP, and I still get kills. I run a Fleet Norgh, but I was still kicking TRIBBLE back when I was using a Hegh'ta against Fleet ships and the like. You do have to know what the heck you're doing, though. You have to be using a proper build for your ship, and you have to know how to use that build. I don't believe ANYBODY starts kicking TRIBBLE the first time they PvP, it's a learning experience. This is a good thing. You need to practice and figure out what works for you in PvP.

    You could pit TRH, Sad Panda, or other top-level players against your average PvPer with both sides using common gear, and the elite players would win. . .simply by dint of having more PvP experience, coordination experience, and personal skill. The only way to compensate for that is to have some sort of tiering system that separates the new players from the inexperienced ones. . .and even then, that doesn't stop asshats from creating new players and griefing the new-to-PvP folks.


    I used a B'Rel and easily killed someone flying a Jem"Hadar attack ship at Ker'rat once so I know that skill is very important. What I had said before was if you have equally skilled the one with the much better gear and so on will have a big advantage.

    Player #1 a Jem"Hadar Attack ship with Mk XII full Jem'Hadar Set, 5 very rare duty officers of his choice, MK XII Polaron weapons and 5 MK XII very rare Polaron Phase Modulator tactical consoles. Also has other very good consoles as well for what he is doing. Tier 5 of all reputation.

    Player #2 flying a free leveling up tier 5 ship using nothing but gear he gets from replaying story missions and a couple of item from the exchange. Has some uncomm duty officers. Has yet to reach tier 1 of any of the reputation.

    Both players are equally skilled and are at Ker'rat what do you think happens when they decide to fight 1v1 their near the broken planet?
  • artanisenartanisen Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    instead of fixing it i think they should just
    create entirely brand new pvp system.

    like having a pvp sector block. but thats
    just wishful thinking.

    sooner or later players need to protest
    and riot about the pvp system.
    other wise they just dont care.
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited July 2013
    I used a B'Rel and easily killed someone flying a Jem"Hadar attack ship at Ker'rat once so I know that skill is very important. What I had said before was if you have equally skilled the one with the much better gear and so on will have a big advantage.

    Player #1 a Jem"Hadar Attack ship with Mk XII full Jem'Hadar Set, 5 very rare duty officers of his choice, MK XII Polaron weapons and 5 MK XII very rare Polaron Phase Modulator tactical consoles. Also has other very good consoles as well for what he is doing. Tier 5 of all reputation.

    Player #2 flying a free leveling up tier 5 ship using nothing but gear he gets from replaying story missions and a couple of item from the exchange. Has some uncomm duty officers. Has yet to reach tier 1 of any of the reputation.

    Both players are equally skilled and are at Ker'rat what do you think happens when they decide to fight 1v1 their near the broken planet?

    Of course gear is going to play SOME role. Saying it shouldn't is silly. Almost all MMOs that have PvP have systems where gear matters at least a little.

    In a situation like the one you described. . .that's when you call in reinforcements in the form of 2-3 other players and try to beat the sucker. That's why PvP isn't a 1v1 setting in this game, it's clearly based more around team/group combat.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    timezarg wrote: »
    Of course gear is going to play SOME role. Saying it shouldn't is silly. Almost all MMOs that have PvP have systems where gear matters at least a little.

    In a situation like the one you described. . .that's when you call in reinforcements in the form of 2-3 other players and try to beat the sucker. That's why PvP isn't a 1v1 setting in this game, it's clearly based more around team/group combat.

    The point is that it takes so long for someone to get the gear,duty officers,ship and so on for someone to make sure they have what they need to be competitive against someone equally skilled. Their needs to be option to shorten that in some way. Have a game that allows anything and another that limits what you can use.

    Well they wanted to do 1v1 PvP against each other and doing it in Ker'rat was a good place to do is so neither side asks for help. The second player would have such a hard time. PvP is usually a team game but it can be 1v1 too.
  • cerritourugcerritourug Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    anazonda wrote: »
    Personally I don't PvP because of massive number of childish insults handed out in PvP matches.

    I'd work on fixing the PvP playerbase, before I'd try to fix the game-mode.

    The PVP community, the real PVP community ere the more helpful players in the game. Look at the PVP bootcamp.

    The ones who leech or just go to PVP for the Dilithium are the ones that need to be fix.

    Anyway, PVP in STO is not popular because Cryptic want it. PVP in this game is not popular not because ppl dont want to play against other players, but because the cryptic PVP sucks and is forgotten.
    __________________________________________________

    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • qjuniorqjunior Member Posts: 2,023 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I loathe PvP, but something occured to me. They should have PvP gear that is only usable inand attainable through PvP. They talked about a PvP rep, that might be a good thing. :)
  • corvallecorvalle Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    linkjoy wrote: »
    I hate to break it you Cryptic, PVP is starting to lose it's player base since you refuse to fix it.

    I was in an Arena que for like 10 minutes and Capture and Hold about 20. Yup I timed it.

    Since it is losing it popularity, you honestly need to make the win conditions down to like 8 or 10 instead of 15 for the Arena.

    And like half of what Capture and Hold is. it's boring too long and just not worth it after awhile.

    And I guess you are starting to lose your player base, because never in my 3 years since I played this have seen the Que THAT slow.

    That is because PVP in STO is a sidenote. Even the queue list is hidden in a drop down menu with the Visit Bridge option. There is no balance anyways, ships like JHAS can take on 5 other players, cruisers are ineffective...its a wonder that the few people who do participate, continue to do so..

    Never had any interest in PVP in this game anyways, just like alot of others.
  • magnumstarmagnumstar Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    They need to have a PvP game that only allows common quality stuff to be used from leveling up ships to common weapons and other common stuff. If they had that I would do PvP more because the fights would be better never having someone totally out gearing another. QUOTE]

    A all common gear PVP would help get folks queuing up. I would rather have a match that's based on pure skill rather than one that is based on what gear you have.
  • magnumstarmagnumstar Member Posts: 269 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    timezarg wrote: »
    Well, Ker'rat always seems to have people to shoot at. Perhaps the OP can try that as well, especially if he's KDF. . .never enough KDF players to hunt the farmers.

    And for those who think 'good riddance', please take into consideration that it is PvP players that are capable of testing the game mechanics properly, to ensure that they're set up the way they're supposed to be. Rarely does PvE do that. PvE also doesn't challenge people to the same extent.

    I'd say there are two main reasons why PvP isn't terribly popular: One is the lack of rewards. . .you could spend 3 hours pew-pewing in Ker'rat (like I just did last night) and gain effectively nothing (since the idiotic rotation system for KDF PvP missions ensured I had no ker'rat applicable missions at the time). The same goes for arena and C+H. . .if you don't have a mission for them, they're not really worth the time you put into it.

    The second is the lack of options.

    He's absolutely right, game balance is mainly do to PvP'ers. If something the Dev's create turns out to be too powerful or under powered the PvP crowd are the first to notice it.
  • thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,991 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    praxi5 wrote: »
    The entire game is based around 'magic buffs', not just PvP... so PvP nor it's population has anything to do (at all) with what you perceive to be 'real star trek.'

    Buffs aren't the problem: Debuffs, Holds and unrealistic magic powers are used mostly in PvP and have just recently been added to NPCs to make them more "challenging."

    Show me where ANY Star fleet Captain in any of the shows or movies commands a Tyken's Rift or Gravity Well be deployed.

    If we lose PvP, then those powers will be unnecessary and can be removed from the NPCs as well to make them less cowardly.

    If someone needs to completely disable someone to win a fight, have they really won anything other than a justly earned coward moniker?

    Basically you can do anything to YOUR ship. The only thing touching someone Else's should be weapons fire.

    Just IMO, but I feel STO following the actual IP would be a fun game.
  • masterkeychnk5masterkeychnk5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    linkjoy wrote: »
    I hate to break it you Cryptic, PVP is starting to lose it's player base since you refuse to fix it.

    I was in an Arena que for like 10 minutes and Capture and Hold about 20. Yup I timed it.

    Since it is losing it popularity, you honestly need to make the win conditions down to like 8 or 10 instead of 15 for the Arena.

    And like half of what Capture and Hold is. it's boring too long and just not worth it after awhile.

    And I guess you are starting to lose your player base, because never in my 3 years since I played this have seen the Que THAT slow.

    Eh ur serious? up the killcount by 15 (30) cuz the matches dont take long enough these days.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am not Snakie, MT is!
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited July 2013
    Buffs aren't the problem: Debuffs, Holds and unrealistic magic powers are used mostly in PvP and have just recently been added to NPCs to make them more "challenging."

    Show me where ANY Star fleet Captain in any of the shows or movies commands a Tyken's Rift or Gravity Well be deployed.

    If we lose PvP, then those powers will be unnecessary and can be removed from the NPCs as well to make them less cowardly.

    If someone needs to completely disable someone to win a fight, have they really won anything other than a justly earned coward moniker?

    Basically you can do anything to YOUR ship. The only thing touching someone Else's should be weapons fire.

    Just IMO, but I feel STO following the actual IP would be a fun game.

    Oh, so you'd be in favor of magic powers like 'bouncing a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish'. Or 're-route the EPS relays to emit a resonant feedback pulse'. Or 'reconfigure the bussard collectors to emit warp plasma' (wait, we already have that one).

    Your complaints are baseless. Trek is filled with 'magic solutions' to defeat/disable enemies. The only time Starfleet uber-ships actually win by firepower alone is when they severely outweigh the enemy. . .otherwise, they try to pull some technical trick to outwit the enemy. It's the same exact thing with the 'magic powers' in the game. Complaining about those is stupid.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Just IMO, but I feel STO following the actual IP would be a fun game.

    So they should remove the magic wand healing, but otherwise everything is fine? There are a lot of folks that agree that the magic wand healing has no place in STO.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    timezarg wrote: »
    Oh, so you'd be in favor of magic powers like 'bouncing a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish'. Or 're-route the EPS relays to emit a resonant feedback pulse'. Or 'reconfigure the bussard collectors to emit warp plasma' (wait, we already have that one).

    Your complaints are baseless. Trek is filled with 'magic solutions' to defeat/disable enemies. The only time Starfleet uber-ships actually win by firepower alone is when they severely outweigh the enemy. . .otherwise, they try to pull some technical trick to outwit the enemy. It's the same exact thing with the 'magic powers' in the game. Complaining about those is stupid.

    Yeah, in reading their post - I was left to wonder if they've ever watch a single episode or movie from the Star Trek franchise... /sigh

    Star Trek was full of all sorts of "magical" things like that...how could anybody claim to have watched anything without having witnessed all the technomagic that took place...it was almost cliche.
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Buffs aren't the problem: Debuffs, Holds and unrealistic magic powers are used mostly in PvP and have just recently been added to NPCs to make them more "challenging."

    Show me where ANY Star fleet Captain in any of the shows or movies commands a Tyken's Rift or Gravity Well be deployed.

    If we lose PvP, then those powers will be unnecessary and can be removed from the NPCs as well to make them less cowardly.

    If someone needs to completely disable someone to win a fight, have they really won anything other than a justly earned coward moniker?

    Basically you can do anything to YOUR ship. The only thing touching someone Else's should be weapons fire.

    Just IMO, but I feel STO following the actual IP would be a fun game.

    Have we been watching the same shows?

    How many times have you heard "Fire an inverted magneto augmented tachyon beam" or some random stuff like that in order to disable a ship?
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