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Fleet alert leavers

mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Ok, I'm getting a little tired of this happening. I realize that by making this post I'll probably make it 10 times worse, but maybe I'll bring it to their attention.

Basicially, what is happening is that people are going into fleet alert, sometimes AFKing, sometimes not, but leaving after the 2nd or 3rd wave. The ones who are doing this, are not receiving any kind of leaver penalty either, thus allowing them to repeat this over and over without end.

As an FYI, for the first couple waves (2 or 3 I think), every person on a team recieves a bonus amount of fleet marks.

Now, don't misunderstand, yes there is the occasional person that might seem to leave, but instead are actually having honest connection issues. I know that, and understand, I'm used to it. But the ones who are doing it ARE warping out on purpose at a certain point, every single time.

If people want to do it in privates, I don't mind, that is their choice. However, this is bleeding over into public queues more and more, slowly but surely. It's not really fair to other players who do want to play it legit, and only encourages more people to quit them and do the same thing.



My recommendations:

1. Move the bonus marks to only the end of event, and have it based on how far you got, or be a flat, guaranteed amount (like Colony Invasion). So even if you lose for any reason, at least you are guaranteed a bonus of some kind, but only at the end.

OR

2. Split the extra bonus more evenly between all the waves, or with a bias towards the end waves. So that way it's better to actually go all the way through fleet alert, and that would encourage people to do so.

OR

3. Actually put a leaver penalty on it.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Post edited by mimey2 on

Comments

  • aarons9aarons9 Member Posts: 961
    edited July 2013
    fleet alert is not a huge problem..
    most of the time you are paired up with a capt or lower level player when you pug it anyway.


    if you have 2 higher level players you wont have any problems winning it.
    [12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
    [12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
  • latiasracerlatiasracer Member Posts: 680 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The whole most points at the start thing is void of logic anyway...


    I can't see why it isn't something like


    1/2 - 5 Marks
    3/4 - 7 Marks
    5/6 -14 Marks
    7/8- 15 Marks
    Siege : 20 Bonus.




    I've had people leaving the fleet alert if they don't get a certain enemy, which i fail to understand..
    warp plasma can't melt neutronium beams
  • khaldun1khaldun1 Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Most of the time I see people leaving is when there are lower level players in the instance. I have seen other players say "*%)$^ Mirandas shouldn't be in here so I am gone" and warp out. I have to agree on some level. Lower levels should not be in such an instance.

    More often than not, there is not enough firepower if there are 2 or 3 low level players. You MAY get to the siege wave, but you wont dps it down. Especially if the mobs are Romulans and the cloaking scimitar. It just wont happen.

    The solution is something STO should have done a long time ago. SCALE THE INSTANCES BY LEVEL!

    Why is this a hard concept? Just group people of the same level together. Problem solved.

    The obvious drawback is increased queue times. But if people are just going to bail out, would it not be better to have the wait for a GOOD run or be let down due to the current mish mash style of grouping? I'd rather wait.
  • hrisvalarhrisvalar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The same thing happens with Starbase Blockade.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Reave
  • oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    khaldun1 wrote: »
    Most of the time I see people leaving is when there are lower level players in the instance. I have seen other players say "*%)$^ Mirandas shouldn't be in here so I am gone" and warp out. I have to agree on some level. Lower levels should not be in such an instance.

    More often than not, there is not enough firepower if there are 2 or 3 low level players. You MAY get to the siege wave, but you wont dps it down. Especially if the mobs are Romulans and the cloaking scimitar. It just wont happen.

    The solution is something STO should have done a long time ago. SCALE THE INSTANCES BY LEVEL!

    Why is this a hard concept? Just group people of the same level together. Problem solved.

    The obvious drawback is increased queue times. But if people are just going to bail out, would it not be better to have the wait for a GOOD run or be let down due to the current mish mash style of grouping? I'd rather wait.


    I'm going to disagree with the first part. The Borg sector alerts are meant for anyone who answers the call or accepts the mission.

    Even if a group doesn't pull off the mission, you still get XP. It's a good way for the greenhorns to level up and learn some of the ins and outs of anti-Borg combat.

    If higher level players want to farm Omega Marks, that's what the STFs are for.
  • john98837john98837 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    No reason to ruin a good way to farm fleet marks, I'd say toss a leaver penalty on the public queues for fleet alert but leave the private queues the way they are. There is nothing wrong with farming fleet alert in this way but it should be done in private queues, only ***holes do it in public queues.

    I'd also agree either scale the event by level, ban low levels, or make it like starbase 24 were different levels have different instances. Its not right 3 or 4 level 50s to have to completely carry a level 10 or 20 who is simply incapable of contributing much of anything to the mission.
  • foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    aarons9 wrote: »
    fleet alert is not a huge problem..
    most of the time you are paired up with a capt or lower level player when you pug it anyway.


    if you have 2 higher level players you wont have any problems winning it.



    Exactly.


    I and another end game captain carried a run once when we got teamed with Captain level and below players.

    He took one side, I took the other. The "Young ones" acted as back up support and did so quite well but Between my Jem Dread (At the time) and his Fleet Escort we did the heavy lifting.
  • reximuzreximuz Member Posts: 1,172 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm going to disagree with the first part. The Borg sector alerts are meant for anyone who answers the call or accepts the mission.

    Even if a group doesn't pull off the mission, you still get XP. It's a good way for the greenhorns to level up and learn some of the ins and outs of anti-Borg combat.

    If higher level players want to farm Omega Marks, that's what the STFs are for.

    The problem with low level ships in Red Alerts is that the scaling system doesn't fix their lack of weapons or BOFF abilities. You get 2 Miranda's and you are probably going to lose, and XP is really useless when you are already at cap.

    I don't want low levels prevented from getting in, I want their scaling fixed so they aren't totally useless. Their weapons should be scaled up, and then doubled in damage to make up for only have 3 slots, and they should get a buff and a massive CD reduction on their BOFF abilities to make up for only having 2-3 of those.
  • omegaphallicomegaphallic Member Posts: 101 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If you lose the final seige battle you lose a whopping 4 fleet marks!

    Serious doesn't bother me. 99 percent of the time we win anyways with time to spare. Now that I'm using Elite Slavers, Disruptor Automatic Point Defence Turrets, a Photon Accx2 dmg torp with 2 blue torp doffs and Nadeon Dentantators Fleet Alerts are even easier to win. So if a Miranda or 2 want to tag along that is fine with me, makes it more interesting.
  • topsettopset Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    reximuz wrote: »
    and XP is really useless when you are already at cap.

    Spoken by someone who hasn't tried the rep grind on multiple toons. Expertise is the one limiting factor for most people!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kirk's Protege.
  • josegasparjosegaspar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    It ins't just Fleet Alerts, it is sort of built into the F2P and Rep system insane grinding (WAY out of hand). Because of this I've created a new chat chan 'Elite Marks' where you can join and/or post requests for other serious players to team with. It is not in competition with any other channels I am aware of but if it is please let me know directly. I've posted details here:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=792881

    I agree...AFK leeches are costing us rewards and they are also reaping us all minimized benefits from our work. All the while they are forcing us to grind for a longer duration of time on each mission to reap fewer marks.
  • hyplhypl Member Posts: 3,719 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    When fleet mark rewards were increased after the removal of officer reports, Cryptic structured the fleet mark rewards per wave so that even if you couldn't get the Siege wave done in time (usually due to lack of DPS from low level players), you'd still get a good amount of fleet marks for finishing the other waves.

    But because the leaver penalty for this queue doesn't really work, people are simply finishing the waves and leaving before the Siege wave begins, then repeat the process as a means to farm fleet marks in space quickly.

    Come to think of it, leaver penalties are like a wild card for all queues. I've left or been disconnected from queued missions several times and have only gotten a penalty once or twice. Even when I rage quit, I get no penalty. :rolleyes:
  • sean2448sean2448 Member Posts: 815 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I hate when they leave mine trap
    here is a siple solution to anything in the PVE que gets like STF's where can't quit mission this would solve several issuses it is not fairwhere players can hust up and leave
  • thelastlegatethelastlegate Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I do not have a great deal of experience with this problem.
    I have seen it a few times on the KDF side where on all three occasions the same person was involved.
    Seen it once on UFD side where the leaver pointedly said "So long Suckers" before warping out.

    My own proposal.
    As I understand it the fleet base we are defending belongs to one or another fleet represented.
    I suggest when we warp in it put up in yellow letters "Defending (insert fleet name) Base"
    This would motivate some people to fight harder.
    For example if it were my own fleet base I would be more prepared to expend resources to save it.
    Now the clever part.
    In the event that the base Survives (say 50% or higher at the end of the timer allowing for end stage repairs) the hosting fleet could receive a bonus to FM gained.
    Anyone warping out before siege could be put on a 2 hour cooldown.
  • notapwefannotapwefan Member Posts: 1,138 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    people do it to avoid the cooldown. They should remove the cooldown time, specially on KDF side where we have lesser players than Federation side.

    The concept of 30 min cooldown during the bonus hours is TRIBBLE anyways. Noone is going to stick for 3 hrs infront of the computer, at least the ones with lives beyond the keyboard.
    Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
    Ain't Nobody Got Time for That


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thelastlegatethelastlegate Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Simply multiply the cooldown by four if you leave before the end
  • aarons9aarons9 Member Posts: 961
    edited July 2013
    they need to get rid of all cool downs..

    a fix tho for this problem of people leaving would be to make it not give rewards until the end. like azure, ensnared, colony invasion..

    for some reason they made fleet alert give rewards each level.. and the 1st 2 levels give the most rewards, no reason to finish the map and waste 30 minutes on CD.
    [12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
    [12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
  • thelastlegatethelastlegate Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I say longer cooldowns for leavers and maybe None for those who fight through
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I say longer cooldowns for leavers and maybe None for those who fight through

    The problem with that is that it also punishes people who are involuntarily disconnected (and yes, Cryptic can write software that can tell if someone warped out or had a disconnect, but no, they can't write software that can tell if someone was involuntarily disconnected or unplugged his cable to avoid the leaver penalty).
    FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
    Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
  • aarons9aarons9 Member Posts: 961
    edited July 2013
    The problem with that is that it also punishes people who are involuntarily disconnected (and yes, Cryptic can write software that can tell if someone warped out or had a disconnect, but no, they can't write software that can tell if someone was involuntarily disconnected or unplugged his cable to avoid the leaver penalty).

    i dont say longer CDs..

    i say NO CDs if you finish or fail the mission.. goes for all missions.

    if you leave (or get disconnected, unplug cable, etc), then you get hit with the standard 1 hr cd.


    why does it matter if you want to back to back certain missions.. waiting 30 min to an hour is a long time to reply a mission.
    [12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
    [12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
  • thelastlegatethelastlegate Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    But they could write software that counts disconnects
    and if you get say three in the last phase in 24 hours blocks you from queuing at all for a day.
  • aarons9aarons9 Member Posts: 961
    edited July 2013
    But they could write software that counts disconnects
    and if you get say three in the last phase in 24 hours blocks you from queuing at all for a day.

    you realize how crappy this would be?

    i did a stf yesterday and during that time i got booted 5 times..
    i managed to come back in just as the boss blew up and i got my reward..

    the day before, i got booted and i wasnt able to come back.. i got hit with a pen that time.


    if i got 24 hour banned caues the game dropped me, id be pretty mad.

    and before you guys say get better internet, i dont think i have a problem with mine.
    2839964405.png
    [12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
    [12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
  • thelastlegatethelastlegate Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    logging back in before end of mission would remove the count .
  • robeasomrobeasom Member Posts: 1,911 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Keep all marks till the end that will stop people leaving. But Cryptic will take ages to implement this idea as it doesnt earn them money
    NO TO ARC
    Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
    Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
    Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tekehdtekehd Member Posts: 2,032 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Ok, I'm getting a little tired of this happening. I realize that by making this post I'll probably make it 10 times worse, but maybe I'll bring it to their attention.

    Basicially, what is happening is that people are going into fleet alert, sometimes AFKing, sometimes not, but leaving after the 2nd or 3rd wave. The ones who are doing this, are not receiving any kind of leaver penalty either, thus allowing them to repeat this over and over without end.

    As an FYI, for the first couple waves (2 or 3 I think), every person on a team recieves a bonus amount of fleet marks.

    Now, don't misunderstand, yes there is the occasional person that might seem to leave, but instead are actually having honest connection issues. I know that, and understand, I'm used to it. But the ones who are doing it ARE warping out on purpose at a certain point, every single time.

    If people want to do it in privates, I don't mind, that is their choice. However, this is bleeding over into public queues more and more, slowly but surely. It's not really fair to other players who do want to play it legit, and only encourages more people to quit them and do the same thing.



    My recommendations:

    1. Move the bonus marks to only the end of event, and have it based on how far you got, or be a flat, guaranteed amount (like Colony Invasion). So even if you lose for any reason, at least you are guaranteed a bonus of some kind, but only at the end.

    OR

    2. Split the extra bonus more evenly between all the waves, or with a bias towards the end waves. So that way it's better to actually go all the way through fleet alert, and that would encourage people to do so.

    OR

    3. Actually put a leaver penalty on it.

    Could be connection issues, who knows.... I know I was pissed in azure one time where we had freed 4 T5 ships (they just came popping up on that map), and a 5th one had showed up.... we had 2 minutes left on the clock and my connection to the server dropped. I was beyond pissed on that one.
  • aurigas7aurigas7 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If you leave before the end you get marks and no CD, if you finish it, you give marks away and can't chain the fleet alert. Basically a no brainer what to do if you want to farm fleetmarks.
    I'm a bit old fashioned, therefore I pick usually the stupid option and stay until the end and then just switch to another char or do crystalline thingy instead for fleet marks and dil.
    It is not the players who are at fault, it is the stupid encounter design.
    Vorcha_forward.jpg
  • thelastlegatethelastlegate Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    maybe award no marks at all until the end?
    or no cooldown if you stay til the end
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