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Support FvK! Merge Q's!

wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
edited July 2013 in PvP Gameplay
hi all. someone from my klink fleet brought me to the idea for this thread (i know, may already been discussed a bit in here, idc ;D):

with the upcoming of rommies on both sides the seperation between fvk no longer really makes sense.
tell me if i'm wrong, but the only viable sense to seperate those seemed to be to keep cloakers out of matches where people don't want to have them (fvf), beside some toys that seem questionable
(more players fvk = more feedback on the forums = greater chance to get things fixed soon(tm)?).

now with cloakers everywhere plz merge the q's and make just one arena q and one c&h q (just like stf q's), where players of both factions could be on the same team.

i don't see klink pvp survive in the long run if nothing about this is gonna be changed.


this thread is not about anything within the factions (except cloaks maybe), so don't come with acetons, elite siphons and so on. i know. i don't like em either!

it's about making pvp possible for any pvp'er who wants to pvp. and those feddies who actually q for fvk seem mostly not that experienced or simply outnumbered in sense of skill and numbers :(.
also sometimes it's just the other way round, but many players made very bad experience in fvk and are kinda scared to go in there at all.

i'm wrong? tell me. i'm right? tell me. wanna troll? grab a jumja stick and go elsewhere plz :P.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Right or wrong, it doesn't matter.

    Cryptic doesnt care.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • redsnake721redsnake721 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Correct... Cryptic dosent care about PVP. But I wont go into F vs K because its just 5 BOP's flying around waiting to do an Alpha strike and then cloak and run away if they dont get a one-shot. Then the AA spam is out of control with 5 or 6 constantly at the spawn. With the Spam and the hit and run tatics is just no fun. F vs F is dogfighting and tanking and is much more entertaining. Sitting in a map with no targets waiting for a sneak attack, then when it comes before you can even fire back your target re-cloaks and is gone. It's just so boring and redundant.
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    Right or wrong, it doesn't matter.

    Cryptic doesnt care.

    you're right in that :(... but no matter that, to all those premades out there: need a challenge? go fvk. guess there's nothing more we could do about, unless may bring this thread to 2000 postings within 2 weeks ;D.... :(

    Correct... Cryptic dosent care about PVP. But I wont go into F vs K because its just 5 BOP's flying around waiting to do an Alpha strike and then cloak and run away if they dont get a one-shot. Then the AA spam is out of control with 5 or 6 constantly at the spawn. With the Spam and the hit and run tatics is just no fun. F vs F is dogfighting and tanking and is much more entertaining. Sitting in a map with no targets waiting for a sneak attack, then when it comes before you can even fire back your target re-cloaks and is gone. It's just so boring and redundant.

    ...write that on the salvage of the bops we did blow earlier today in c&h... if ya had seen that u may came to an other conclusion... go in there, many times it's totally different from what u expect ;)...
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I don't look at it so much as supporting FvK to merge the queues - to take it from FvF, FvK, KvK to RvB...as much as I see it supporting PvP and creating a scenario in which Cryptic at some point could in turn split the queues again in one of the many fashions that people have asked about previously.

    What many folks (not saying anybody in this thread) do not take into account, is how many actual queues there already are...

    FvF, FvK, KvK means there are 12 queues. There are 2 Ground/2 Space game types - that's 4 game types - separated into three types of queues...12 queues.

    For the folks that have suggested splitting the current queues in one fashion or another (gear level, PUG vs. Premade, whatever) - just doing one of those would result in 24 queues. Doing a second would result in 48 queues.

    For the folks that want another game type added, each game type added would add 6 more queues. So you add one, you're at 18 queues - two - you're at 24 queues.

    Now imagine adding game types and splitting the queues? One game type and one split - bam, you're at 36 queues.

    If it were just RvB instead though, there would be 4 queues instead of 12. Adding a game type would take it to 6 queues instead of 18 queues. Splitting would take it to 8 queues instead of 24.

    You could split it and add a game type...and...you'd be at 12 queues like we have now.

    So yeah, my support for merging the queues isn't about supporting FvK - it's simply about supporting PvP...
  • masterkeychnk5masterkeychnk5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If it does ever happen, you can count on it that affecting PvP is just a side effect of changing the whole system, as always.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am not Snakie, MT is!
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    If it does ever happen, you can count on it that affecting PvP is just a side effect of changing the whole system, as always.

    There's already mixed queues outside of the faction specific PvE instances.
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited July 2013
    I personally have little interest in fighting alongside Federation players. I go along with it for private PvP matches, but otherwise I'm not really interested.

    Now, if this game had been pitched along the lines of a 'civil war' with different factions in the Federation and KDF siding with one another against the opposing factions, then this idea would fit perfectly. As it is, KDF and Federation are SUPPOSED to be at war. Regularly mixing the PvP queues would pretty much spit in the face of that idea. PvP is pretty much the only place the idea still really exists, as end-game is a Federation/KDF love-fest.

    And if you're having issues with BoPs. . .you're either in a crappy pug team, or you're doing something wrong. There's half-a-dozen ways to either decloak an attacking BOP pre-emptively (not to mention properly-specc'd and equipped science ships can see cloaked vessels 10km out), or keep them from escaping back into cloak. It's also possible to repel most alphastrikes from BoPs (except maybe the ones that use PSW, stacked BOs, etc). Start playing in pugmades/premades that conform to certain layouts (some escorts, some healboats/support boats, and 1-2 disablers/immobilizers) so that you're able to handle what comes at you.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    timezarg wrote: »
    As it is, KDF and Federation are SUPPOSED to be at war.

    Says who?

    Where?

    What is this mythical war of which you speak?

    I currently have 9 toons, 4 level 50 Feds, 4 level 50 KDF, and a level 50 KDF-aligned Rom. What is this war of which you speak?

    Couldn't tell you how many times prior to S7 that I took toons to 50 in a weekend and rerolled them within a couple of weeks. What is this war of which you speak?

    Cryptic killed the "war" off a long time ago...players can experience a tiny aspect of it as they level...but it's long over by the time they hit 50 unless they've avoided all PvE content in the game...but closing one's eyes to something, doesn't mean it's not the case.
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited July 2013
    The war exists 'on paper'. That is, Cryptic has decided to keep it hanging out there while the KDF and Federation conveniently 'join forces' to fight various 'bad guys' (ridiculously easy PvE opponents). I would like it if Cryptic were to make up their minds and officially decide whether there's an actual war going on or not. Right now it's in limbo.

    That's why I said 'supposed' to be at war. Before mixing the queues, Cryptic needs to decide whether the war is actually continuing or not. . .and if it continues, they need to start designing content to reflect that :P

    I'm personally in favor of keeping the war going and seeing more of it. I like it for PvP purposes, it makes for better competitiveness. 'War games' mean nothing.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited July 2013

    So yeah, my support for merging the queues isn't about supporting FvK - it's simply about supporting PvP...

    thx for pointing on it quite simple, i not have been clear on that :). but till then fvk needs some love ;) (even though today the q's popped quite quick on klink-side).
    had a blast match on my rommie against some fleeties from my klink fleet today. my fed-puggies all left after about 3 mins :(... but no matter what: we had a nice, and for me very busy match ending 15/2 :D
    timezarg wrote: »
    'War games' mean nothing.
    we're doing nothing but wargames due to most q fvf only/the ending of a match changes nothing in that "war" i read about...
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    timezarg wrote: »
    The war exists 'on paper'. That is, Cryptic has decided to keep it hanging out there while the KDF and Federation conveniently 'join forces' to fight various 'bad guys' (ridiculously easy PvE opponents). I would like it if Cryptic were to make up their minds and officially decide whether there's an actual war going on or not. Right now it's in limbo.

    That's why I said 'supposed' to be at war. Before mixing the queues, Cryptic needs to decide whether the war is actually continuing or not. . .and if it continues, they need to start designing content to reflect that :P

    I'm personally in favor of keeping the war going and seeing more of it. I like it for PvP purposes, it makes for better competitiveness. 'War games' mean nothing.

    But that's the thing, even FvK is nothing more than a war game. Outside of personal meaning it may hold for somebody, it's no different than FvF or KvK. Nothing changes because of the queues. There's no bonuses for anybody, there's no territory changes, there's nothing...they're casual queues...pew pew, wheeee!

    If they were to flesh out the neutral zone as mentioned - create another sector - allow folks to fight over worlds in a Ker'rat type instance, etc, etc, etc...hey, that would be another thing. (Would be a pretty nifty thing, imho - wink, wink, nudge, nudge - hey Cryptic?)

    But as it stands, FvK is Fed/F-Rom vs. KDF/K-Rom... they'll be adding the Cardassians, Liberated Borg, and who knows how many other "factions" down the road. There could easily come the time where there are no Feds nor KDF in the majority of FvK matches.

    If folks want to maintain the semblance of the war, then they'd likely need to organize such for themselves. Get together all the like-minded folks, get some sort of ladder system going that tracks territorial control, play out the matches, record them, submit them so an official winner can be declared without any arguing/etc, and go through to track the wholeshebang...cause it doesn't look like Cryptic is going to do it.

    Because honestly, and this is just recent personal experience, the last time I did three Arenas - I had 2x FvF and a FvK. I saw a total of four Fed ships and zero KDF ships - Romulans, Tal Shiar, Jem'Hadar, Tholian, Cardassian, etc...course, er...I was there in my Breen Chel Grett. My main Fed flies a Chel Grett and my main KDF flies a JHEC...my eventual overall main will be the Reman in the Fleet T'varo.

    Outside of players making the effort to coordinate actual FvK gameplay, FvK's already dead...it's just another war game queue...three war game queues, why not merge them so we can get more game types, etc, etc, etc?
  • edited July 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • staq16staq16 Member Posts: 1,181 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    A merged queue needs to happen, if only so that KDF fleet groups can mix it openly with their Fed counterparts and KDF PVPers don't have such a long wait. Call it "Omega Force Wargames" if you want it to make sense in-game; by all means put in some logic to group KDF, Roms and Feds onto one side as far as possible... that should keep everyone happy.

    And while they're at it? Put something in so that PUGgers can avoid premades if they choose. I suspect that's a big disincentive for a lot of casual PVPers.
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hear, Hear! Merge the Queues!

    And World Hunger!

    And make a new PvP game-mode!


    (the last two are about equally likely to happen)
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    staq16 wrote: »

    And while they're at it? Put something in so that PUGgers can avoid premades if they choose. I suspect that's a big disincentive for a lot of casual PVPers.


    skurf wrote: »

    And make a new PvP game-mode!


    (the last two are about equally likely to happen)

    i fear one quote answers the other :D. though i also think premades are another reason for some to hop out, but that's not the topic in here ;). that also can appear on fvf, so one step after the other plz.

    to merge fvk and fvf should not be to hard to implement and also would open the way to more modes, as virus already stated.
    the seperation just no longer makes sense with rommie toys in fvf, so: plz let us all play in the same sandbox.
    let my klink team up with my fed-mates who doesn't run a klink at all.
    staq16 wrote: »
    Call it "Omega Force Wargames"

    i like that. at least it would be much more honest than the "war" we got right now :D...


    edit for canon lovers: klinks fighting side-by-side with rommies against feds who are fighting side-by-side with (wait a sec) remans ^^ :D.... regarding this canon had been shot at least by lor i guess...
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I totally support merged queues, especially since it is hard now to even tell if you are in FvK or FvF, given that half the ships are Romulan/Jem Hadar.
    _________________________________________________
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  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    merged queues= more fun for all. maKe IT so
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    so.... i see most in here seem to agree that the q's should be merged. regarding to the poll cryptic took last year pvp-improvements been on place 3 in that poll and we already got klink-and rommie content.

    so the next update is about pvp? is it? i'll believe it if anyone can point on an official statement to this. anyone already got further information?

    until that i'd liked to see more fed-premades in fvk. give em a challenge...
    to get more in there it at least may would help if spawncamping would be banned by klinks as dishonourable behaviour (of course as well on fed-side, where it also does happen :() ;).
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    wast33 wrote: »
    so the next update is about pvp? is it? i'll believe it if anyone can point on an official statement to this. anyone already got further information?

    The last I heard, PvP improvements were being tacked in with overall endgame improvements - so that it wasn't so much about PvP improvements, as much as just touching up endgame. Of course, lol - with it having gone from PvP to PvP/Endgame...it's not hard to imagine the next step would be PvP/Endgame to Endgame where the PvP is forgotten about again. ;)
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The last I heard, PvP improvements were being tacked in with overall endgame improvements - so that it wasn't so much about PvP improvements, as much as just touching up endgame. Of course, lol - with it having gone from PvP to PvP/Endgame...it's not hard to imagine the next step would be PvP/Endgame to Endgame where the PvP is forgotten about again.

    damn u :D.... couldn't u just may have told that with a bit more sense for sensivity? ;)...
    as it is, referring to the declined participation of dstahl on this topic (he seemed to be quite talkable when bootcamp started), i fear ur right in this :(....

    so (dahell), until anything may changes for pvp, don't let klink-pvp left behind fed-side. embrass the challenge it gives.

    (sometimes i even wish they won't touch it at all. likely at least the first time after something is done, it will not be fun for us :rolleyes:.... more maps, merged q's and i'd probably be fine with it as "pvp-update")
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    How about Geko's thing about the mix of PvP and competitive PvE? That one, um, that one...wait, let me compose myself here. Ahem...

    /cough

    That included such things as folks completing a PvE objective on one map adding a turret to the PvP map.

    /cough

    Hrmmm, there is supposed to be another Rep Grind added by the end of the year - never saw the follow up interview on that to see if there was any more info on what it might be...

    ...might be a grind accomplished by adding turrets to PvP maps from PvE maps. ;)

    edit: Read the second part of that interview and there was no further mention of it. Not sure why I bothered reading the first part...it's fluff from a fluff interviewer.
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    How about Geko's thing about the mix of PvP and competitive PvE? That one, um, that one...wait, let me compose myself here. Ahem...

    /cough

    That included such things as folks completing a PvE objective on one map adding a turret to the PvP map.

    /cough

    Hrmmm, there is supposed to be another Rep Grind added by the end of the year - never saw the follow up interview on that to see if there was any more info on what it might be...

    ...might be a grind accomplished by adding turrets to PvP maps from PvE maps. ;)

    ...may they cleanse endgame totally from anything but kerrat with.... a turret... "here ya go, enjoy our new pvp-update: the kerrat-turret-rep (from which u can obtain pakhled gear)" ^^ :D..... :X.... (don't give em ideas :rolleyes:)
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    wast33 wrote: »
    ...may they cleanse endgame totally from anything but kerrat with.... a turret... "here ya go, enjoy our new pvp-update: the kerrat-turret-rep (from which u can obtain pakhled gear)" ^^ :D..... :X.... (don't give em ideas :rolleyes:)

    Lol...they'll add Pakled DOFFs that improve the turret placed on the PvP map from the PvE map - which will in turn reduce the amount of grind needed for the Competitive PvE Reputation. It will be available for a limited time and in very rare quantities from a new DOFF pack available in the next lockbox.

    edit: Just wanted to add that I was most definitely joking about that - don't work at Cryptic, do not have inside info about what they're doing or anything like that - just a joke.
  • wast33wast33 Member Posts: 1,855 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Lol...they'll add Pakled DOFFs that improve the turret placed on the PvP map from the PvE map - which will in turn reduce the amount of grind needed for the Competitive PvE Reputation. It will be available for a limited time and in very rare quantities from a new DOFF pack available in the next lockbox.

    edit: Just wanted to add that I was most definitely joking about that - don't work at Cryptic, do not have inside info about what they're doing or anything like that - just a joke.

    as for me: was lmao, but not took it serious ;)... trolling my own thread :rolleyes:.... mhmmm jumja sticks :D...
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