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Question about cannons (DHC and DC)

asardetemplariasardetemplari Member Posts: 447 Arc User
So I'm sitting here building both my Defiant and my Charal, and I wanted to know something I am curious about:

DHCs put out heavy burst damage but take a short time before firing again.
However, DCs don't put out the same amount of damage but fire faster.

But I was told that DHCs put out more DPS, even though DCs have a higher DPS stat??



Could someone clear this up for me, maybe even correct me?
latest?cb=20160406061118&path-prefix=en

Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Post edited by asardetemplari on

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  • topsettopset Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    So I'm sitting here building both my Defiant and my Charal, and I wanted to know something I am curious about:

    DHCs put out heavy burst damage but take a short time before firing again.
    However, DCs don't put out the same amount of damage but fire faster.

    But I was told that DHCs put out more DPS, even though DCs have a higher DPS stat??


    Could someone clear this up for me, maybe even correct me?

    Sure. They actually have identical DPS stats if you look. The damage is higher on DHCs but the DPS are the same. That's because DHCs fire less often.

    Anyway, here's the summary.

    DHCs outperform DCs in every way. They crit harder, and they actually end up with less power drain. DHCs have -12 and DCs have -10 but that's per firing cycle. Given that DCs cycle twice as often... well... you can see.

    In summary:

    DHCs are more powerful because they crit harder, have less overall power drain. Also you don't have to keep the target in your firing arc for as long to get the full damage.

    DCs: Well, they proc more often. End of good things.

    Go with DHCs!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • asardetemplariasardetemplari Member Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Right. Thank you :)
    latest?cb=20160406061118&path-prefix=en

    Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
  • taabu82taabu82 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Hm... is there someone who prefers Dual Cannons over DHC's? If so, why?
  • paxfederaticapaxfederatica Member Posts: 1,496 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    IIRC, DHCs supposedly have a slight power buff compared to DCs. On the other hand, because DCs still put out twice as many shots per fire as DHCs, DCs are superior in terms of procs, whose chances of hitting are based solely on the number of shots. For example, if you're using antiproton DCs/DHCs, the DCs give you twice as many chances to crit per fire as do DHCs.

    Edit: topset above explained things better than I.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    DHCs also have inherent +CritD bonuses to them. DCs don't.

    Also, in damage, Spike Damage is king, esp. in PVP. DHCs, along with a well placed Beam Overload 3 are the main tools on achieving that. DHCs with Cannon Rapid Fire and other TAC / ENG buffs really rip into a target with the intent of doing catastrophic damage before the target can properly react. The higher base damage of DHCs with the buffs make this possible.

    IMHO, there's absolutely no reason to use DCs. They are suffering the same limited firing arc as DHCs, but don't truly have appreciatively smaller weapon drain than DHCs. They don't have the base damage for spike damage.

    If you want high damage in close proximity but can pull off the proper turns for it, DHCs are supreme. If you want okay close proximity damage but can't keep a target always in your front arc, consider Beam Arrays or the 180 degree arc regular Cannons.

    Anything but Dual Cannons. You're playing with the same limitations of Dual Heavy Cannons but without the benefit of great damage.
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  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    DHCs are better. End of story.
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  • jornadojornado Member Posts: 918 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    As I recall its actually been proven somewhere that DCs don't even proc more often - procs tick on weapon activation, not on cycle, and the time between activations is the same. Some enterprising person actually did a full on statistical chart detailing proc rates. Can't find it right now, but its on the forums somewhere.

    Cheers!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
  • pokinatchapunxpokinatchapunx Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    In my testing I've found that 5 disruptor DHCs on a charal are superior to 5 DCs. Yes, I run 5 DHCs. Yes, it is worth it. No, I won't respond to trolls on this matter. :P
  • topsettopset Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    jornado wrote: »
    As I recall its actually been proven somewhere that DCs don't even proc more often - procs tick on weapon activation, not on cycle, and the time between activations is the same. Some enterprising person actually did a full on statistical chart detailing proc rates. Can't find it right now, but its on the forums somewhere.

    Cheers!

    Crazy. There really is absolutely no use at all in DCs then. Well, that kinda sucks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Kirk's Protege.
  • asardetemplariasardetemplari Member Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Well... Wednesday, I did an STF and got Polaron Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII [Acc]x3 and sold them on Thursday for about 10 million, and since I couldn't buy the Federation Combat EVA suit I wanted, I spent about 5 million of that upgrading my Defiant's DHCs to Mk XIIs, gave my Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier a Warp Core upgrade, gave my Defiant a Warp Core upgrade. I decided to go with DHCs because of this thread. I wanted to make sure I was doing something right.

    I chose Phaser over Antiproton because:

    1) I'm what my friend Sarlik calls a 'pure-ist'. Phasers for my Federation ships. My Galaxy-class gets photon torpedoes, my Sovereign gets a quantum torpedo and a photon torpedo in the front, and another photon torpedo in the back. And my Breen ship gets disruptors. Whoever made the Breen have polaron weapons and the Romulans have plasma weapons screwed up. They both use disruptors. So my Chel Grett got disruptor weapons, and my Jem'Hadar Carrier got Polaron weapons and quantum torpedoes. If I had a Jem'Hadar Attack Ship and they didn't cost so much, it would have that set-up as well.

    2) I didn't want my Defiant to rely on my Charal's Andorian phasers. As much as I would like to outfit all of my ships with STF gear and appropriate weapons and consoles.. I probably wouldn't fly all of them. As it is, I am regretting buying the Odyssey from my fleet's shipyard for 200k instead of the Sabre.


    Just my thoughts :3
    latest?cb=20160406061118&path-prefix=en

    Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
  • shadoreshadore Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Well cannons from what I've read base their damage on the weapon power level when they fire. This especially comes into play if for some reason you want to use quad cannons. Quad cannons are not heavy cannons, they're quad light cannons. If you want to use the quad cannons then it is best to use dual cannons to go with them because the fireing cycle of quads and dual lights are almost the same. If you were to use dual heavies with the quads the heavies will lower the weapon power level for the quads which will lower it for the dual heavies. When paired with dual lights they fire almost at the same time. Since they fire at the same-ish time their damage will be higher relative to the weapon. That being said, quad cannons aren't very good because the mods on them are dam x 4. Dam is widely considered the worst mod. that coupled with the engine power drain lowering your speed and defense...

    If you want to use quad cannons, use dual cannons. Otherwise dual heavies tend to be better.

    And yes i tested this out. For about a week i ran things like stfs and those tau dewa space patrols and other things regularly with a build based on them and i did pretty good. I switched to dhc without the quads and did noticeably better.
  • sonnikkusonnikku Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    topset wrote: »
    Sure. They actually have identical DPS stats if you look. The damage is higher on DHCs but the DPS are the same. That's because DHCs fire less often.

    Anyway, here's the summary.

    DHCs outperform DCs in every way. They crit harder, and they actually end up with less power drain. DHCs have -12 and DCs have -10 but that's per firing cycle. Given that DCs cycle twice as often... well... you can see.

    In summary:

    DHCs are more powerful because they crit harder, have less overall power drain. Also you don't have to keep the target in your firing arc for as long to get the full damage.

    DCs: Well, they proc more often. End of good things.

    Go with DHCs!

    That might not quite be the "end" of good things. They are cheaper because the wide majority of players want heavies. And they should, all other factors being equal. But for some, getting purple mark 12 dual cannons for the price of blue mark 10 heavies can actually be an over all benefit until you have the funds or rep to get mark 12 very rare heavies.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    sonnikku wrote: »
    That might not quite be the "end" of good things. They are cheaper because the wide majority of players want heavies. And they should, all other factors being equal. But for some, getting purple mark 12 dual cannons for the price of blue mark 10 heavies can actually be an over all benefit until you have the funds or rep to get mark 12 very rare heavies.

    When working with what resources you have, by all means, use what's available to you. You can make good use of Uncommon quality DHCs also. I'd take Uncommon green DHCs over Purple DCs any day of the week.
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  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    When working with what resources you have, by all means, use what's available to you. You can make good use of Uncommon quality DHCs also. I'd take Uncommon green DHCs over Purple DCs any day of the week.
    This. You can have 5K+ DPS using blue and green gear. And it's enough for any eSTF. I usually start eSTF with my newest char with a full blue polaron weaponry/consoles, and the Jem'hadar set. Then I switch to something else once I have the rep gear.
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