I got to thinking about the rep passives a bit, and have come to the conclusion that the best way to balance them across the player base is to reinvent them as traits.
Currently, each tier of reputation unlocks two passive abilities (which are essentially traits), and the player has to choose between those two at that tier (9 "traits" total per rep, of which 5 can be activated). I propose that each tier simply have a single trait unlock (total of 5 per rep), and it would go into the global trait pool next to all the other traits, and users could consider that trait against all of the other traits they already had access to.
This would provide some balance to the overall game landscape, in that people would have the same number of traits. Meanwhile, the additional traits would provide more variety to those players who went through the trouble of unlocking them. Assuming they were good traits to have, the additional variety would be reward enough, without being overpowered.
I was also considering the option of adding additional trait slots at varying levels, such as 1 additional trait unlock at Tier-5 per rep, however this just puts us back into the present situation where players with a lot of passives are completely OP against players that dont have them. This situation is bad for future growth, since it makes it extremely difficult for new players (and alts) to compete with older players. Players should compete on their gameplay skill, not on items/slots/gear
edit--After some more consideration, I am modifying the proposal to include one additional trait slot at Tier 2 of each rep system. Tier 2 requires less than one week to reach, so it is something that is available to people who do not even want to participate in the reputation system. Note that these would be usable by any trait, not necessarily the traits associated with any of the specific rep systems. In addition, I would like to see some generally available mechanisms for increasing trait slots, such as a unique DOFF assignment, PVP rewards, etc.
No. I don't pvp, so I have to lose what I earned for no return on all that investment? Did I say No already? Learn to manage your farmhands so you don't have to rely on taking things away from other players in order to be competitive.
Wooo, allot harder on the Elite PvE aspect after grinding threw that rep system so hard.
PvP wise, which I seldom do might balance things out between Lv50 rookies & Lv50 Vets. It's quite the nerf. That Rep system is not a pretty thing to go threw
If you want to PVP and are not willing to go through the reps to get items and bonuses, than your in the wrong game.
You want us to just give up 15 bonus abilities for nothing in return. Absolutely not. It won't help the game, it'll just make the rep systems not worth doing. And we'll all just sit at 50 with fleet stuff.
If you want to PVP and are not willing to go through the reps to get items and bonuses, than your in the wrong game.
You want us to just give up 15 bonus abilities for nothing in return. Absolutely not. It won't help the game, it'll just make the rep systems not worth doing. And we'll all just sit at 50 with fleet stuff.
Yeah. It would make the Rep System a WHOLE lot less done. Mayb just Omega & part of the Rom for Torps then stop. I don't think anyone would bother with the new Nukara Rep. That's quite a sink. I hate doing all those sliders & supply on multi toon for a good month or so, still get nightmars
You want to reinvent the system to essentially the way it is but remove the element of specialisation. i.e. You could have two passives in the same tier and none from an earlier one or add completely unrelated traits to in the form of an empty slot. You state that this would balance PvP.
I got to thinking about the rep passives a bit, and have come to the conclusion that the best way to balance them across the player base is to reinvent them as traits.
Unless there's a VERY clear and obvious power creep involved that would kill one of the primary draws that the various reps have.
Yeah. It would make the Rep System a WHOLE lot less done. Mayb just Omega & part of the Rom for Torps then stop. I don't think anyone would bother with the new Nukara Rep. That's quite a sink. I hate doing all those sliders & supply on multi toon for a good month or so, still get nightmars
Yes. As you observed, hardware would make the rep systems still desirable, especially the Omega rep for the multiple sets, and a lot of people would still take romulan rep to T4 for the weapons and only a few would go to T5 for the expiremental beam and the hangar pets. Pretty much as it is now. The rep systems would still have considerable value, indeed they would still have the same material value as they do now.
Depending on the quality of the traits, those might also be compelling enough by themelves. The only reason I do T5 romulan rep now is for the free mini-cloak ability, with the mask energy field ability from the KHG set it gives me cloaking retreat capability for my sci captains on every ship. Also the T4 romulan passive that gives the free placate, that one would still be very useful as a trait. I would give up a couple of ground traits to slot those, no doubt about it. That means it would still be worth doing the rep to unlock them. Really, it just depends on how useful the traits are, and if you want to give up some other trait to get them. If you are going after the hardware, the traits are incidental. If the traits are compelling, you will grind for them directly. Sounds about right.
The problem with the current system is its soo overwhelming to new toons. Thinking about the long-term, new blood is critical, and the game is so horribly out of whack right now, some kind of radical changes are necessary to make the game approachable. This is only part of the problem, items/gear are the bigger issue, but this is a big part of it. New players have no chance of rolling up to a match against players with full stacks. Its gotta be corrected, or the game goes away
PvP and PvE just need to be seperate entities, leaving the curent system for PvE and then reinvent the PvP side for pure balance. traits should not come into play for PvP, skill and experiance should be the deciding factor not gear and traits. gear should be for different PvP class where if you have T5 drp garbage you play against others with the same gear class, have full fleet and rep gear then you play against those that have them as well. Make it fair and balanced not 1 will be OP and thats what everyone uses.
I would play PvP if everyone had the same exact setup except for what class they chose and everyone was perfectly even with skill and experiance deciding who wins.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
There is only two improvements I want to see to the rep system. First it is made account wide, two they remove the dilithium costs to getting the gear from the rep system, or at the very least drastically reduce those costs.
Sure .. If they refund all the credits I sunk into the grinds and compensate me with dilithium for the endless runs of the same boring missions.
Otherwise a big fat no ... No rep powers means not worth doing ... Means no end game.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
PvP and PvE just need to be seperate entities, leaving the curent system for PvE and then reinvent the PvP side for pure balance. traits should not come into play for PvP, skill and experiance should be the deciding factor not gear and traits. gear should be for different PvP class where if you have T5 drp garbage you play against others with the same gear class, have full fleet and rep gear then you play against those that have them as well. Make it fair and balanced not 1 will be OP and thats what everyone uses.
I would play PvP if everyone had the same exact setup except for what class they chose and everyone was perfectly even with skill and experiance deciding who wins.
That's a bit unrealistic. You must do really bad in PvP
Other then that, sense everyone has the same Rep system, same abilities from them.. That's perfect balance. If you keep dying that sounds more like a personal problem. If ur a Rookie fighting a Vet, in any game you'll boost ur chances of getting owned. If you want to reduce the power of Vet so you don't die so soon jus sound like bitter talk. I kno that sound mean, but it's real.
But yeah, everyone has the same Rep abilities guys, the rest is personal battle skills
I got to thinking about the rep passives a bit, and have come to the conclusion that the best way to balance them across the player base is to reinvent them as traits.
Currently, each tier of reputation unlocks two passive abilities (which are essentially traits), and the player has to choose between those two at that tier (9 "traits" total per rep, of which 5 can be activated). I propose that each tier simply have a single trait unlock (total of 5 per rep), and it would go into the global trait pool next to all the other traits, and users could consider that trait against all of the other traits they already had access to.
This would provide some balance to the overall game landscape, in that people would have the same number of traits. Meanwhile, the additional traits would provide more variety to those players who went through the trouble of unlocking them. Assuming they were good traits to have, the additional variety would be reward enough, without being overpowered.
I was also considering the option of adding additional trait slots at varying levels, such as 1 additional trait unlock at Tier-5 per rep, however this just puts us back into the present situation where players with a lot of passives are completely OP against players that dont have them. This situation is bad for future growth, since it makes it extremely difficult for new players (and alts) to compete with older players. Players should compete on their gameplay skill, not on items/slots/gear
Why in dear god would you want to take the ability to chose between 9 abilities, and reduce them down to 5? Sure if all 9 were mixed together in those 5 I could go for that.
Also all players can obtain the exact same amount of traits even with the rep system as it is now, unless gold or lifers get additionals for which they pay for it's equal no matter what. Why would you want to give up ground traits for space only, when currently you can have them both so long as you put in the time and effort to unlock the rep ones?
What you are proposing is utterly stupid and your complaint is equally dumb, because you can have the exact same build as anybody else. All it takes is time and money if money is needed for sub granted perks or store and lockbox and lobie goodies. WOW -1 for this post most definitely.
i agree with the part that if you are new and wanna do pvp, that the rep grind is long, and give's you a slight disadvantage.
so, why dont make the rep system aviable from level 30 instead of lvl 45?
that way people can already do t1 to t2/3 and they dont have such a big disadvantage when hitting lvl 50.
i know that omega marks are hard to get, but the red alerts and the borg episode will give enough marks,
that way people dont get to lvl 50 in 1 day, and they can start sooner with the rep systems??
Given the Rep system is equally accessible to all is not unbalancing.
There are way way more imbalancing features to this game, fleets equiptment, fleet ships, lockboxes, , c store ships, subefuge Romulan space trait and so on, I could continue.
In fact there are so many things unbalancing pvp that I honestly believe serious pvp is unfixible.
After some more consideration, I am modifying the proposal to include one additional trait slot at Tier 2 of each rep system. Tier 2 requires less than one week to reach, so it is something that is available to people who do not even want to participate in the reputation system. Note that these would be usable by any trait, not necessarily the traits associated with any of the specific rep systems. In addition, I would like to see some generally available mechanisms for increasing trait slots, such as a unique DOFF assignment, PVP rewards, etc.
After some more consideration, I am modifying the proposal to include one additional trait slot at Tier 2 of each rep system. Tier 2 requires less than one week to reach, so it is something that is available to people who do not even want to participate in the reputation system. Note that these would be usable by any trait, not necessarily the traits associated with any of the specific rep systems. In addition, I would like to see some generally available mechanisms for increasing trait slots, such as a unique DOFF assignment, PVP rewards, etc.
OMG no, why would you want less traits than current? -1 for the idea and this post!!!
I would hate to have rep passive be unlocked as trait choices. It is fine as is with the only change being a shorter time to reach tier 5 of all the reputations.
OMG no, why would you want less traits than current?
many of them are cheap copies of each other. its an opportunity to have 15 focused well-developed traits rather than have 27 poorly-developed noise traits
As far as the pvp argument goes, the main problem in pvp, is lack of team work. It has always been that way. Messing with the traits is not going to allow someone to lone wolf it, as it were. In pvp no matter your gear you work as a team or you die. Plain and simple.
As yet another of the majority players that don't PvP, NO. Aside from all the arguments already stated, your main point of this balancing between rookies and vets is just fundamentally wrong. Even if you take the passives, those vets are still going to have superior gear and, of course, experience.
Besides, the PvP I have played has been all alpha stike tac/escorts in space and tac lunge/flank/blam on ground. I think if you want to talk about balance, start with the bigger issues first rather than things that anyone can get with enough patience.
Comments
PvP wise, which I seldom do might balance things out between Lv50 rookies & Lv50 Vets. It's quite the nerf. That Rep system is not a pretty thing to go threw
-V
If you want to PVP and are not willing to go through the reps to get items and bonuses, than your in the wrong game.
You want us to just give up 15 bonus abilities for nothing in return. Absolutely not. It won't help the game, it'll just make the rep systems not worth doing. And we'll all just sit at 50 with fleet stuff.
Yeah. It would make the Rep System a WHOLE lot less done. Mayb just Omega & part of the Rom for Torps then stop. I don't think anyone would bother with the new Nukara Rep. That's quite a sink. I hate doing all those sliders & supply on multi toon for a good month or so, still get nightmars
-V
You want to reinvent the system to essentially the way it is but remove the element of specialisation. i.e. You could have two passives in the same tier and none from an earlier one or add completely unrelated traits to in the form of an empty slot. You state that this would balance PvP.
No, doesn't seem a strong enough word here....
Unless there's a VERY clear and obvious power creep involved that would kill one of the primary draws that the various reps have.
Yes. As you observed, hardware would make the rep systems still desirable, especially the Omega rep for the multiple sets, and a lot of people would still take romulan rep to T4 for the weapons and only a few would go to T5 for the expiremental beam and the hangar pets. Pretty much as it is now. The rep systems would still have considerable value, indeed they would still have the same material value as they do now.
Depending on the quality of the traits, those might also be compelling enough by themelves. The only reason I do T5 romulan rep now is for the free mini-cloak ability, with the mask energy field ability from the KHG set it gives me cloaking retreat capability for my sci captains on every ship. Also the T4 romulan passive that gives the free placate, that one would still be very useful as a trait. I would give up a couple of ground traits to slot those, no doubt about it. That means it would still be worth doing the rep to unlock them. Really, it just depends on how useful the traits are, and if you want to give up some other trait to get them. If you are going after the hardware, the traits are incidental. If the traits are compelling, you will grind for them directly. Sounds about right.
The problem with the current system is its soo overwhelming to new toons. Thinking about the long-term, new blood is critical, and the game is so horribly out of whack right now, some kind of radical changes are necessary to make the game approachable. This is only part of the problem, items/gear are the bigger issue, but this is a big part of it. New players have no chance of rolling up to a match against players with full stacks. Its gotta be corrected, or the game goes away
I would play PvP if everyone had the same exact setup except for what class they chose and everyone was perfectly even with skill and experiance deciding who wins.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Otherwise a big fat no ... No rep powers means not worth doing ... Means no end game.
- Judge Aaron Satie
That's a bit unrealistic. You must do really bad in PvP
Other then that, sense everyone has the same Rep system, same abilities from them.. That's perfect balance. If you keep dying that sounds more like a personal problem. If ur a Rookie fighting a Vet, in any game you'll boost ur chances of getting owned. If you want to reduce the power of Vet so you don't die so soon jus sound like bitter talk. I kno that sound mean, but it's real.
But yeah, everyone has the same Rep abilities guys, the rest is personal battle skills
-V
Why in dear god would you want to take the ability to chose between 9 abilities, and reduce them down to 5? Sure if all 9 were mixed together in those 5 I could go for that.
Also all players can obtain the exact same amount of traits even with the rep system as it is now, unless gold or lifers get additionals for which they pay for it's equal no matter what. Why would you want to give up ground traits for space only, when currently you can have them both so long as you put in the time and effort to unlock the rep ones?
What you are proposing is utterly stupid and your complaint is equally dumb, because you can have the exact same build as anybody else. All it takes is time and money if money is needed for sub granted perks or store and lockbox and lobie goodies. WOW -1 for this post most definitely.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
so, why dont make the rep system aviable from level 30 instead of lvl 45?
that way people can already do t1 to t2/3 and they dont have such a big disadvantage when hitting lvl 50.
i know that omega marks are hard to get, but the red alerts and the borg episode will give enough marks,
that way people dont get to lvl 50 in 1 day, and they can start sooner with the rep systems??
There are way way more imbalancing features to this game, fleets equiptment, fleet ships, lockboxes, , c store ships, subefuge Romulan space trait and so on, I could continue.
In fact there are so many things unbalancing pvp that I honestly believe serious pvp is unfixible.
OMG no, why would you want less traits than current? -1 for the idea and this post!!!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Besides, the PvP I have played has been all alpha stike tac/escorts in space and tac lunge/flank/blam on ground. I think if you want to talk about balance, start with the bigger issues first rather than things that anyone can get with enough patience.