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Nukara passives
side7
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
I'm having some issues deciding and tried searching through the forums with no real luck so I was wondering if folks might be able to give me some suggestions.
I'm a tac flying escorts, if that helps.
As an example, is stacking Omega Graviton Amplifier with Nukara's T2 Enhanced Shield Penetration effective at all? I thought I'd read that shield piercing damage wasn't b/c of the way shields split bleed through between shield and hull and these abilities just shift one to the other instead of actually adding 2.5% in damage.
Also, the T4 passive, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Offense, seems less effective if you're an all energy build since you can only benefit from 2/3 of the stat boosts while you'd benefit from all three boosts on Defense.
For ground experts, does 5% in shield penetration matter or is the additional 7.5% in health better at T1?
Thanks for any help in advance.
I'm a tac flying escorts, if that helps.
As an example, is stacking Omega Graviton Amplifier with Nukara's T2 Enhanced Shield Penetration effective at all? I thought I'd read that shield piercing damage wasn't b/c of the way shields split bleed through between shield and hull and these abilities just shift one to the other instead of actually adding 2.5% in damage.
Also, the T4 passive, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Offense, seems less effective if you're an all energy build since you can only benefit from 2/3 of the stat boosts while you'd benefit from all three boosts on Defense.
For ground experts, does 5% in shield penetration matter or is the additional 7.5% in health better at T1?
Thanks for any help in advance.
Post edited by side7 on
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@DevolvedOne
(I guess if you have almost no use on shield regen like a constant cloaker i suppose its ok to use this, or for a pure bleedthrough build I guess it could work as well for the extra oompf)
Strictly comparing both passives the Shield regen is alot more powerful, thus unbalanced.
The Nukura T2 passive just adds to bleedthrough. Since the Omega T4 bypasses shields, they do not benefit each other.
As for the Nukura T4 passive (offense), you can refer to my previous post: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=746991
While it would seem like you'd get more out of the T4 defense passive, it'll probably end up being a wash. The small amount you get will easily be overtaken by someone's small damage boost that is hitting you with 7 or 8 weapons every firing cycle.
While I'm no ground expert, most people's health is not more than 700, I believe. Meanwhile, pulsewaves can critical for over 1k (fully buffed). I'd prefer the bleedthrough.
The description for the trait doesn't not specifically say it only works with energy weapons. Therefore, it is likely that it would work with melee/kinetic damage.
The turrets on the back to virtually nothing. Well...until i used a decent a>w and acap overcharged warp core and T4 nukara (offence)
It works nicely
And noone expects that Tactical Vesta Inquisition :P
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Assume that you have 100 power in Aux:
Defense:
+20 Shield Performance = +2 shield power level
+20 Structural Integrity = +6% hull hp (calculated from base hull hp)
+20 Hull Plating = ~+2.5% energy resist (subject to diminishing returns)
Offense:
+20 Weapons Training = +5% damage with both energy and projectile weapons (calculated from base damage)
+20 Energy Weapons = +5% damage with energy weapons
+20 Projectile Weapons = +5% damage with projectiles
(Combine these, and it's +10% damage to both energy and projectile weapons.)
I don't think I need to say this, but the offensive t4 rep option is by far the better one for the vast majority of ships.
Pretty much this, if you're tact go always for offensive. Choose the Shield Penetration.
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Power creep.
Nukara rep is a pain to deal with, but even if you don't want to do it, others will, which means that they will have an advantage over you. People WANT to stay competitive, and thus they will grit their teeth and grind it out achingly.
You can get away with not doing Nukara rep (at least not for the passives, that's for sure, gear is up to you). But Romulan and Omega rep...they're a LOT more useful, both in gear and passives.
Same thing for fleet stuff. Between having it and not having it, can make a big difference. Usually. Particularly the elite space shields, warp cores, engy and sci consoles are the bigger things. Weapons, engines, deflectors, etc, not as much.
The diminishing returns on putting points into a skill is not to be confused with the actual points in a skill.
Remember...
1-3 is +18 per point.
4-6 is +10 per point.
7-9 is +5 per point.
It's difficult to discuss, because there's skill and there's skill - lol. Heck, there's also skill (can't forget how much a skill costs).
Skill Level?
Skill Bonus?
Skill Point Cost?
Skill Level has diminishing returns. You get -8 Skill Bonus per Skill Level from 4-6 than you did 1-3. You get -5 Skill Bonus per Skill Level from 7-9 than you did 4-6.
However, each "point" of Skill Bonus does not have diminishing returns.
4 Skill Levels shows diminishing returns because unlike 1-3, where you went 18-36-54, with 4 you're going to 64. Likewise, 7 shows DR because unlike 4-6, where you went 64-74-84, with 7 you're going to 89.
200 skill bonus is twice the benefit of 100. 150 twice 75, etc, etc, etc.
Thus, there is no DR with the T4.
Points in skill do not suffer from diminishing returns. It's as you put more points in skills that the amount you get per skill is diminished.
All skills max out at 99 (without gear or passives). But, each skill point does not give you 11 points in that skill. As was pointed out in a previous post.
Think of points from gear as an extra skill point. With the T4 Nukura ability, the most someone could get from it is 26 points. That is a significant amount of skill points. It's just that skills do not give you a huge bonus to your damage, power level, resistance, etc when it's maxed out by skill points.
You might be right theoretically and number wise renim, but think about it. Healers/tanks often have Aux alot higher, damage dealers usually dont run aux high at all, and even doing so will severely compromise their speed/shield tanking/regen etc
So I think eventually they are pretty equal and they might have taken this into consideration.
I try to get as much damage as I can. The extra 2.5% bleedthrough will allow me to get just a little bit more damage on my target than if I didn't have it. Same with the T4 Omega damage passive. Even if I only did 77k damage kinetic damage from this passive in 1.5 million damage. When I had the plasma DOT embassy console, that only gave me 22k extra damage in the 1.5 million total damage I did in one round. It isn't much, but I kept it anyways up until they announced the new Fleet warp cores.
In anticipation for the AMP modifier on the Elite Fleet Warp Cores, I have adjusted my power levels that I have all 4 subsystems above 75 with Plasmonic Leech. That's, I think, 13.2% increase to my damage. With my Aux at 78, I'm going to get 15.6+ to my energy and weapon training. 15.6 versus 26 (130 Aux) isn't too much of a difference. And I have no points in Aux Performance in my skills.
But that's kind of the point of what my post was saying. I think most folks have that bookmarked.
Look at the numbers up there under the numbers you mentioned.
6 is 84.
9 is 99.
There is DR going from 6 to 9, because each of those only provides +5. 1-3 provides +18, 4-6 provides +10, and 7-9 provides +5.
So you look at Energy Weapons Training...each "pt" provides 0.5 damage in the example given there.
2 skill levels is 36 pts... base is 249, 2 is 267 (+18 dmg, 0.5 x 36).
8 skill levels is 94 pts... base is 249, 8 is 296 (+47 dmg, 0.5 x 94).
That 0.5 per pt remains the same. If you had 150 pts in EWT, with the base damage of 249 - your damage would be 324 (0.5 x 150, +75 dmg).
The DR arises because you go from getting +18 per level to +10 per level to 10 +5 per level...but the value for each point given is the same.
Plasmonic is not such a game changer in such that you pretty much 'need' it to counter it from someone else shooting at ya.
Assuming all use it, or even just a few, they shoot at ya and you need plasominc urself to counter the loss in power, so.
Perhaps I was more refering to the romulan ships which have lower base etc, I just dont think that putting all your power to aux from 30 to 125 or so justifies the small extra damage boost.
I mean I got like 4 copies of EptX so two powerlevels are constantly buffed, weaps are at 125 engines at 110 or so and my shield and aux sittin at like 40/30 (I got Warp core Potential and Efficiency at 9 as well, as for Engine performance and other stuffz)
I might think about flattening em all to 75 if its even possible at some point, who knows. its going to be hard with a rommy ship tho.
Offence will boost Tier 1 and 2 Tier 2 skill-powers (if you need to put points in, 1000+3000 skill points=4000)
Defense will boost tier 2 and 2 tier 4 skill-powers (if you need to put points in, 1500+5000 skill points= 6500)
If you have all energy:
Offence will boost Tier 1 and 1 Tier 2 skill-powers (if you need to put points in, 1000+1500 skill points = 2500)
Not going to say what is best, but lest say you take your t4 passive extra points you get and take them out of your skills, so you can use them somewhere else, Defense will give you the most skill-points.
Bone1970 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone Trader don't belief in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. Fed Tac.
Bone2 don't believe in a no-win senario, Kirk's protege. KDF Eng.
Warning: Not a native English-speaker, sorry if my English sucks.
Funny thought though, if the Leech is not a game changer/OP then why did the feds complain so loudly to get it?
The only real choice of wether to go for the Nukara passives is to keep abreast of Power Creep in the game and /or to further a build idea one may be working on a specific toon.
R.I.P
What makes Leech great is the bonus to your power levels. Which is why, if you really wanted to, you can get Aux and Weapons to high levels. This can be done on pretty much any ship now. But the new AMP warp cores make it beneficial for you to have all of your power levels at above 75. 13.2% can almost be considered having an additional tactical console (albeit a low level, low rarity one).
It's just 0.5 for that particular item...Energy Weapon Training and a Beam Array. Each of the skill bonuses will have their own bonus for each point that they have.
You can get an idea of what the bonus provided by each point is for each one from that chart.
Pick one of the "blue" entries.
Subtract the base number from the "blue" number.
Divide that number by the number listed under the skill level at the top.
That will be your boost provided.
You can check it, by doing the following...pick a skill level, grab the number beneath it, multiply that number by the bonus number you grabbed from doing the previous thing, add that to the base...and it should match the number listed on the chart (or be close, some will be off by a little here and there because of the rounding that takes place in STO).
They do provide their boosts beyond the 99 (which oddly enough for calculations for most things tends to be 99.9 instead of 99).
It's like the Omega passive...Omega Weapon Training. It's giving +30, taking folks to 129. There's the Enhanced Shield one that gives +30 Shield Systems - taking folks to 129.
I've got a Snooper that has 9 Sensors, the Astrophysicist Trait, runs 4x Sensor Probes Mk XII, etc, etc, etc. Pop out a Sensor Probe, make a note of the numbers, pop it back in, each "pt" is the same no matter how many of the consoles I shuffle in and out.
Consoles are one of the easiest ways to test those bonus numbers - because once you've determined the bonus amount per "pt" - you know how much a console should give you. So you pop an ability dependent upon that particular skill...voila!
I wasnt aware that Leech could be completely countered by PI drain wise.
So yeah I guess the power level increase is nice. But back to the original discussion of comparing both nukara tier 4 passives, Its still hard (On a romulan ship) to stay on 125 weapion power at all times and having maximum auxiliary without significantly impairing your ships speed/defense, for only a meager damage increase.
Also I still stand with my original post about Leech needed to counter leech, or 'balance' yourself towards other players.
You gain * amount (16~?) power level in all, wheeas your opponent does not. So in order to balance or get yourself up to par you would also need Plasmonic yourself, or am i wrong in that assumption?
I could care less about the Fed cryers, but it was only problematic when they could stack for me personally. Maco boost was still pretty good most of the time in PvP, since you're getting shot at there alot and alot more, comparing to STF's lol.
Has anybody run an AMP core to see where the boost comes into play? Is it working like a Tac console or is it working like a Tac ability? I've never delved into Torp/Mine math, but for Directed Energy there's going to be a difference there depending on how it is done.
Say we had Random Energy Beam Array Mk XII...running at 125 Weapon Power, 99 Weapon Training, 99 Energy Weapon Training...standard stuff - no special gearing, no passives, etc, etc, etc. (The following was made possible by information/calculations/formulas provided by bareel.)
Base
Base = 100
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 149.95 (Weapon Training)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 199.9 (Energy Weapons)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 319.9 (Mark XII)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 329.9 (Very Rare)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 824.75 (Weapon Power)
IF@Console
Base = 100
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 149.95 (Weapon Training)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 199.9 (Energy Weapons)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 319.9 (Mark XII)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 329.9 (Very Rare)
+ (100 * 0.132) = 343.1 (AMP)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 857.75 (Weapon Power)
IF@Ability
Base = 100
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 149.95 (Weapon Training)
+ (100 * (0.999 * 0.5)) = 199.9 (Energy Weapons)
+ (100 * 1.2) = 319.9 (Mark XII)
+ (100 * (4 * 0.025)) = 329.9 (Very Rare)
* (1 + ((125-50) * 0.02))) = 824.75 (Weapon Power)
+ (824.75 * 0.132) = 933.617 (AMP)
Base: 824.75
@Console: 857.75 (+33 dmg or +4% dmg)
@Ability: 933.617 (+108.867 dmg or +13.2% dmg)
Of course, that's without any other abilities/consoles/etc/etc/etc being accounted for in that determination...
...was just curious if anybody knew how it was going to work.
Enhanced Shield Penetration...directed energy...doesn't do anything for my torp boats. Kind of like the Singularity Overcharge from the Romulan Singularity Abilities is useless for my Reman.
With the T4, whether I go Def/Off...all of my guys will at least get something.
With the T2...I'm forced to go with the +5% hull (which can be silly) for my torp guys.
And yet, people complain that KDF doesn't have any 5 tactical console ships.
The T2 Omega passive (the one that gives +30 to weapons training) gave me a 43.5 DPS increase. Almost half of a MK XII purple console.
At the time of my testing, back when my Aux power level was at 55 (giving me +11.1 weapon training and energy weapons), I was getting a 32.2 DPS increase.
When I set it to 65, or half of 130 (giving me +13.0 to weapon training and energy weapons), I got 38.2 DPS. Let's say I have 130 power to Aux, or double the power at 65, I can now get ~76.4 DPS.
That's about 85% of what I get from a MK XII purple tactical console.
It's really not a meager amount. If you add the T2 Omega and the T4 Nukura (at 65 power level), you almost have enough to equal another MK XII purple tactical console. With Leech, I now have, what is essentially, a 6th purple MK XII tactical console.
I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but you can see my test results here: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=746991&page=2
I haven't tested it myself. I'm assuming Cryptic would do the right thing and just buff the base damage, like a console. If it is increasing the damage after modifiers, I would both be shocked and excited at the increase in my DHC damage.