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vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvP Gameplay
I am gonna try to lay out what a lot of the more Veteran PvP players already know. The Scimitar so far looks like it is going to be an OP monster. Why not though? We all know that there is a possibility they may raise the Level Cap someday. Which will make all the End Game gear we have currently go the way of the dinosaur.

As far as OP is concerned there will always be a "Best" ship. Skill makes that ship into a monster though. This is proven by the exchange, as PvP controls prices. The things that are good for PvP are what is expensive.

I suppose Cryptic needs money, and why not? Sell me a Scimitar and I will buy it. There is no real way they can put it into the same category as a Defiant, or Failaxy. They just would not sell. Now as far as overall effectivness, looks like it might compete with Temporal ships and the legendary Bug. Had to make a ship better some day.

Who knows, maybe they will nerf it. But this ship can be earned by F2P players, and can be purchased by Romulans on both sides of the fence. So the only problem I see, is that it is not on Holodeck yet.

Here is to the Scimitar, the first possible T6 ship :cool:.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by vegie0 on

Comments

  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    vegie0 wrote: »
    I am gonna try to lay out what a lot of the more Veteran PvP players already know. The Scimitar so far looks like it is going to be an OP monster. Why not though? We all know that there is a possibility they may raise the Level Cap someday. Which will make all the End Game gear we have currently go the way of the dinosaur.

    As far as OP is concerned there will always be a "Best" ship. Skill makes that ship into a monster though. This is proven by the exchange, as PvP controls prices. The things that are good for PvP are what is expensive.

    I suppose Cryptic needs money, and why not? Sell me a Scimitar and I will buy it. There is no real way they can put it into the same category as a Defiant, or Failaxy. They just would not sell. Now as far as overall effectivness, looks like it might compete with Temporal ships and the legendary Bug. Had to make a ship better some day.

    Who knows, maybe they will nerf it. But this ship can be earned by F2P players, and can be purchased by Romulans on both sides of the fence. So the only problem I see, is that it is not on Holodeck yet.

    Here is to the Scimitar, the first possible T6 ship :cool:.

    There used to be a day when Bugs ruled supreme - glad there is finally some REAL competition that is not in the $300 US dollar range - and yes each bug is valued between $250 to $350 dollars!!

    That equals SUPER pay-to-win
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    every thing depends on the turn rate. if the scimitar has a 5 turn rate, instead of about 9, its a house of cards more then anything. its very op by the looks of it, but its not on an escort chassis, its on a cruiser chassis. only if it moved around like an escort, and turned like an escort, would those huge stats be op. frankly, for cruisers to complete now, they need to have at bloated as hell base stats, and they should if they have a sub 9 turn rate. but if the scim has 9 or better we're screwed.
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    every thing depends on the turn rate. if the scimitar has a 5 turn rate, instead of about 9, its a house of cards more then anything. its very op by the looks of it, but its not on an escort chassis, its on a cruiser chassis. only if it moved around like an escort, and turned like an escort, would those huge stats be op. frankly, for cruisers to complete now, they need to have at bloated as hell base stats, and they should if they have a sub 9 turn rate. but if the scim has 9 or better we're screwed.

    I am going to Laugh extremely hard if it 10+

    Of course I will sob like a little baby if its less than 8

    8 is the same as Exel which is the bare min for a crusier to be.

    Scimitar is billed as a carrier - but really it's not.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    vegie0 wrote: »
    We all know that there is a possibility they may raise the Level Cap someday. Which will make all the End Game gear we have currently go the way of the dinosaur.

    I don't really agree with this part Vegie. I highly doubt they will ever move past Mk XII gear.

    And any 'tier 6' ships will probably just be on the same 'fleet/lockbox ship' level that we are on now.

    The reason for Mk XII gear, if you wanna use canon (soft-canon that is), is the Destiny novels, which describe the Vesta's "Phaser Cannons" as being Mark XII, and since this is the same relative-ish time as those books, they will stay within that realm.

    In terms of game stuff, they will stay Mk XII, because all the current best stuff is Mk XII. If they ever introduce Mk XIII or above, that would indeed make EVERYTHING that EVERYONE has totally worthless across the ENTIRE game, and if anything would be guaranteed to kill it instantly, that would. They are basically saying with all this fleet and lockbox gear, 'hey, this Mk XII stuff is the best of the best'. For them to suddenly make MK XIII or more, is basically shooting themselves in the head.

    Now, on the Scimitar's turn, I have a feeling it might be a low base number, if for no other reason than the 'P2W' aspect and wanting you to equip the consoles and use the cloak to gain higher turn.

    Or I could be wrong and it might be higher, possibly even two digits.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • aetam1aetam1 Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think the scimitar will have a turn rate of about 6. And a set bonus that adds 2. That would make it a very powerful pve ship but not that scary in pvp.
    (Yes thinking that helps me sleep at night)


    And I highly doubt that they will ever increase the player lvl or the ship tiers. Or add something beyond MK XII. They rep system, the fleets everything is designed for these gear lvls. They might add another mod at some point and introduce something beyond ultra rare instead of increasing the the item lvl. And the reputation system is more or less an increase of player lvl. A very simple one, you get a few passives and they do not have to redesign the skill tree.
    As for the ships, I don't think there will ever be true T6 ships. But I could see them reworking all existing T5 ships at some point.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • ddesjardinsddesjardins Member Posts: 3,056 Media Corps
    edited June 2013
    I disagree with the idea that XII is the final cap, and Cryptic has hinted as much.

    There will be a fleet admiral rank and along with that sets, consoles and more than likely weapons to match. Why? The simplest answer is money, and I don't see that as a bad thing.

    Lets be frank. All games historically come to an end, generally due to the lack of players. There is always something new on the horizon. While there is a certain 'strength' to the IP and a willingness to wait for the next new additions, I don't believe that the growth in newer players will be larger than those who move on to other games.

    Homeostasis in the player base is not their goal. Their goal (and rightfully so) is to increase the profitability of the game.

    A wholesale redesign of the game is unlikely. The only way forward is to expand the current player base within the confines of what is available, updating the underlying technology whenever possible.

    XII+ is the easiest answer to that equation.

    The symptoms are there:

    I have no desire to spend my time here doing the same thing over and over for no additional rewards. I so want to decry the grind - but I was more than willing with three toons to do Romulan and Omega rep over for them.

    At 7 toons, I am worn out. The chase for the next best thing is really the next flavour of weapons. 4 reputations at once is too much and I think you'll agree this feeling is shared by many.

    The only thing left to keep me interested is new ships. New ships mean bigger and better capabilities. Who the heck would want buy something that's less effective? If they are unable to produce new ships on a regular basis, then the only thing left to do is to give us promotions. And what good are promotions if there is nothing that comes with that?

    Just my two bits.

    Admiral Thrax
  • bootybootsbootyboots Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I thought the idea was there will not be a level increase but a rank increase

    and you will be able to take four NPC ships you command like you do boffs (huge profit for Cryptic since it means 5 times the amount of outfitting, rather than 1x for a level increase)
    House of Sigma (channel KDFdefera for PvE requiring only KDF teams) List of KDF issues [my in-game handle @bootymcboots] (channel KDF Empire for KDF orientated discussion - still in development/growing)
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Actually, we've already exceeded the MK XII equipment cap because of embassy science consoles and now dilithium mine engineering consoles. They make the same regular MK XII console not worth using at all. Not only do they have better stats, but they have an added bonus power to them. Hell, that's better than just a plain old level increase to XIII gear.
  • aetam1aetam1 Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I disagree with the idea that XII is the final cap, and Cryptic has hinted as much.

    There will be a fleet admiral rank and along with that sets, consoles and more than likely weapons to match. Why? The simplest answer is money, and I don't see that as a bad thing.

    Fleet admiral? Did not they talk about hat idea 2 years ago?
    In the end raising the lvl cap will make some people happy and some people angry. And it would be a lot of work. They need a look at the skill tree, possibly a new lvl of skills. Extend the reputation to include higher lvl gear, new end game missions etc. That a lot of work and I don't think it would make them that much money. If the invested the same work in a another faction they would make more.
    I think this game is taking a similar route that Dark Age of Camelot did. They simply added master lvls, champion lvls,... but never increased the lvl cap.

    They decided people at max lvl need something to do so they introduced the fleet/rep grind. And from the looks of it they will simply add more fleet holdings and reputations. Maybe they will make the rep grind easier for new toons at some point, I surely hope so. But I highly doubt that nukara is the last reputation.
    And I think they said we will get a pvp rep... with season 9 or something.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • aetam1aetam1 Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    skurf wrote: »
    Actually, we've already exceeded the MK XII equipment cap because of embassy science consoles and now dilithium mine engineering consoles. They make the same regular MK XII console not worth using at all. Not only do they have better stats, but they have an added bonus power to them. Hell, that's better than just a plain old level increase to XIII gear.

    But that is still MK XII. It is just ultra rare. At some point we might have advanced ubah super ultra rare MK XII stuff with 10 mods but I think they will still call it MK XII :P

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I am going to Laugh extremely hard if it 10+

    Of course I will sob like a little baby if its less than 8

    Currently I'm hoping for a (-2) myself , but take another look at the RCS consoles that the new Dil Mine offers . Some of those carry defensive bonuses .
    Strap a few of those into a Scimi and watch it turn .
    I'm thinking it will get a turn rate with those consoles in mind .

    mimey2 wrote: »

    In terms of game stuff, they will stay Mk XII, because all the current best stuff is Mk XII. If they ever introduce Mk XIII or above, that would indeed make EVERYTHING that EVERYONE has totally worthless across the ENTIRE game, and if anything would be guaranteed to kill it instantly, that would.

    Errrr , you do remember a time when the Top Gear was Mark XI , right ?
    Then Mk XII came along .
    We're still here ... and the sky has yet to fall . :)
  • hayabusafuryhayabusafury Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    vegie0 wrote: »
    I am gonna try to lay out what a lot of the more Veteran PvP players already know. The Scimitar so far looks like it is going to be an OP monster.

    Here is to the Scimitar, the first possible T6 ship :cool:.


    So, the same OP monster the Warbirds were going to be, or the Vesta and Andorian ships before that? The same OP Monster FED and KDF 3 pack ships are currently?

    You sure don't paint a pretty picture of the "knowledge" of the "more Veteran PvP" player base. No wonder PvP is such a joke in this game.

    1/10 for the sky is falling troll thread.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Help rebuild the Romulan Star Empire to glory. Click the banner to join today.

  • aetam1aetam1 Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Errrr , you do remember a time when the Top Gear was Mark XI , right ?
    Then Mk XII came along .
    We're still here ... and the sky has yet to fall . :)

    Well the top gear was Mk X at release if I remember it right. But they game was unfinished and the max lvl 45. With the extension of the max lvl I suppose they thought we need new gear and Mk XII was just a matter of time once they had MK XI. They always have two Mks at the same lvl. But for Mk XIII they would more or less need an lvl increase to follow the gear pattern and I can't see that happening. But time will tell.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • chemist6lpchemist6lp Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So, the same OP monster the Warbirds were going to be, or the Vesta and Andorian ships before that? The same OP Monster FED and KDF 3 pack ships are currently?

    You sure don't paint a pretty picture of the "knowledge" of the "more Veteran PvP" player base. No wonder PvP is such a joke in this game.

    1/10 for the sky is falling troll thread.

    You seem to forget that certain amount of time has passed between the examples you're citing. Besides, most of these ships have at least tiny semblance of balance.

    Odyssey is... well, a cruiser.
    Vesta's hull is paper thin.
    Kumari... to be honest, statwise, there is little that would indicate some sort of weakness, but it's not nearly as hard to destroy as I would have expected.

    But this Scimitar thing... take a Jem Dread, buff almost everything about it and there you go - you have the newest grind accelerator of the shut-up-and-take-my-money kind for those who could just as well use their RA ships, because honestly, that's all it takes to finish almost any PvE.
    Science for the win. / Czechoslovak Fleet 1st Division
  • vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So, the same OP monster the Warbirds were going to be, or the Vesta and Andorian ships before that? The same OP Monster FED and KDF 3 pack ships are currently?

    You sure don't paint a pretty picture of the "knowledge" of the "more Veteran PvP" player base. No wonder PvP is such a joke in this game.

    1/10 for the sky is falling troll thread.

    You must be somebody that is bad at PvP D:? Simply put the Scimitar's stats and capabilities allow for more strategies to develop with ectensive time and testing. She seems to have more firepower than any other ship in game. (5 Forward, 3 Aft with 5 Tac consoles.) Also she is more stealthy and and manuverable than any of the other known carriers. FFS it is the first Carrier with a Cloak!!!!:eek:

    Now for the sky is falling part, I want a Scimitar. I want ships that are a tier above the bug so that we can continue to get more interesting and powerful gear.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • aetam1aetam1 Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    vegie0 wrote: »
    You must be somebody that is bad at PvP D:? Simply put the Scimitar's stats and capabilities allow for more strategies to develop with ectensive time and testing. She seems to have more firepower than any other ship in game. (5 Forward, 3 Aft with 5 Tac consoles.) Also she is more stealthy and and manuverable than any of the other known carriers. FFS it is the first Carrier with a Cloak!!!!:eek:

    Now for the sky is falling part, I want a Scimitar. I want ships that are a tier above the bug so that we can continue to get more interesting and powerful gear.

    We do not really know all the Scimitars stats. The turn rate is unknown (and that will be important). What kind of cloak is unknown (people reported it has a "Scimitar cloak"). We don't even know how much hangar bays or what happens to your pets when you cloak.
    The Scimitar has the potential to be very powerful from what we know but there is no reason to panic, yet.

    When we learned of the vesta stats back then people where shouting it is the most op thing ever. It will be vastly more powerful than the bug and 5 man vesta teams will rule the world. Now how turned that out?

    Just wait till we see the stats, than you can start your end of the world party. But even the stats won't tell us all. Often you have to fly and test a ship to truly see what happens. That's the reason we have holodeck. So we can test stuff that we payed money for.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • zarxidejackozarxidejacko Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Rule of Acquisition nuber 34: War is good for business.
    As long as people buy ships with good stats to dominate pve/pvp, more powercreep will follow. Nothing can be done.
    Scimitar not first and not the last.
    2010 is my join date.
  • captainednacaptainedna Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I don't really agree with this part Vegie. I highly doubt they will ever move past Mk XII gear.


    this already happend...not mk XIII but MK XII and 1/2 already exists in the fleets .Check normal neutronium mk XII purple vs fleet mk XII neutronium.They can keep mk XII and give the orange colour and +100% over purple .
    vegie0 wrote: »
    As far as OP is concerned there will always be a "Best" ship.


    all games have "the best something".That the best something is what people want the most.Even in real life you have the best sheets ...cars ,houses ,foods etc.Who says is p2w something is only BSing a cliche.
    There used to be a day when Bugs ruled supreme - glad there is finally some REAL competition that is not in the $300 US dollar range - and yes each bug is valued between $250 to $350 dollars!!

    That equals SUPER pay-to-win

    like the p2w cliche ,bug is op is a cliche .You would most likely want to keep that 300 dollars ship op because if people paid that much to have it op then be sure they will be annoyed and leave the game...its bad for you business if you loose people who can afford to spend 300dollars for a ship.

    I got it for ec made in few days of trading on exchange ,so Im not talking for me because you can be sure I can get the most op/p2w/>insert any way of calling them< ships in game like I did with the bug ... but those who paid real money to get one ...well ,they wont like that :rolleyes:

    in this game you can only have stuffs that are gamebreaking ,not P2W.Or Valdore console...they even made pve impossible by adding that garbage...now people cant win a first place in events if they dont have a romulan toilet with a c store console on it (not that console drops in game are worth much anyway when you have 100 times better bound to character stuffs in fleets).
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Yeah, the last I recall Geko talking about it was along the lines of:

    No "T6" ships.
    Character Rank will increase.
    More ways to customize/improve T5 ships (including higher Mk gear).

    As it stands though, imho, the current Tier system is broken.

    T5, eh?

    RA T5...
    VA T5...
    Fleet T5...
    Lockbox T5...

    Calling them all T5 is kind of problematic, no?

    Course, then there's the gear for those T5 ships, eh? Mk IX-XII. Don't forget, there's no VA gear yet. Even the Mk XII stuff is technically RA/UH.

    RA T5 w/ Mk IX
    Lockbox T5 w/ Mk XII

    Yep, there are issues there...imho.

    And yeah, that's before getting into the Ultra Rare Mk XII. /cough

    So maybe we'll get the Mk XIII-XIV for VA. Then the FA will introduce what, Mk XV?

    More slots will be added to ships, allowing for more customization and more power.

    Heck, let's do a crafting revamp and be able to slot better mods on things, eh?

    UR Mk XV Dual Heavy Cannons with multiple UR mods slotted! Woot! Woot!

    And still be flying T5 ships. ;)
  • vegie0vegie0 Member Posts: 480 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think at this point we as players Define the Tiers of the ships. Exclusively the PvP players in that earlier statement. This is due to my realization that of all things, when I see a ship I size up its combat potential before I engage. A lot of BOPs do this, but it brings me back to my first post. The ship quality I define as follows.

    T1 - Basic First ship
    T2 - Same thing really
    T3 - Effective up to RA 40
    T4 - Effective ships such as the Patrol Escort (or Cruisers that have some limited suvivability)
    T5 - Basic Z-store ships with need of toys and or abilities.
    T6 - Fleet Escorts/Cruisers (These tend to be deadly)
    T7 - Advanced ships with Heavy combat capability (Fleet Patrol Escort, Lots of Fleet Cruisers with DEM and Aux2Batt capability)
    T8 - God tier stuff (The ships everybody knows can rip you apart with the right Captain at the controls. Bug ship, Galor, *Now maybe Scimitar*)

    This is how I more or less classify ships. It this way allows me to be more specific then saying this Bug ship is equal to the capability to this Fleet Galaxy. Well because it isn't. Share what you think of my list and if you think that we as players define what is good, and what is not?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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