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Request to have in game survey b4 any change is implemeted

matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
Cryptic devs shouldn't make any change to the game based on the complain and feedback on the forum 'cause 90% of STO do not hang around forum.

I started reading the forum lately 'cause so many stupid changes were made to STO and ruin the my fun. For example, I prefer things b4 the penalty timer. I have no problem whatsoever til they put the timer in. Now I have 3 big problems: afkers/arses/join a mid eSTF that is going to fail or take a long time to finish.

So, I'm sure that many like myself, do appreciate if they do an in game survey b4 implementing any changes since only 10% maybe less players visit the forum.
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  • sabouma1979sabouma1979 Member Posts: 171 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    matrix0 wrote: »
    Cryptic devs shouldn't make any change to the game based on the complain and feedback on the forum 'cause 90% of STO do not hang around forum.

    I started reading the forum lately 'cause so many stupid changes were made to STO and ruin the my fun. For example, I prefer things b4 the penalty timer. I have no problem whatsoever til they put the timer in. Now I have 3 big problems: afkers/arses/join a mid eSTF that is going to fail or take a long time to finish.

    So, I'm sure that many like myself, do appreciate if they do an in game survey b4 implementing any changes since only 10% maybe less players visit the forum.

    The people (players, that is) that claim to know the amount of people visiting the forums are quite amusing....
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If the many players like yourself want to say something they should go to the forums. It's like politics. You don't get to sit at home and the politicians come and ask you, you have to go voting. Then they will do what they want anyway.

    Also do not expect much sympathy here. The leaver penalty is necessary, the only reason it can't be more severe is because no system can make a difference between someone leaving and someone having trouble with his connection. Concerning your big problems:

    afkers: A way to kick those is something people are asking for on the forums.

    a****: for many people leavers fit into that category

    join a mid eSTF that is going to fail or take a long time to finish: If you are unwilling to commit the time to see an STF through to the end even with a group of newbs or n00bs there are two ways: a) find a group of people who know what they are doing and join with them, b) stay out of STFs
    FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
    Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
  • msk5msk5 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Game Design Is Not A Democracy.

    Changes will always upset some and please others, you are no more or less a special snowflake than anyone else playing the game. If you are leaving STFs you deserve the penalty incurred, that is why it is there.
  • captainrevo1captainrevo1 Member Posts: 3,948 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There are a few issues.

    1) polling does not fix anything. if 51% vote A and 49% vote B, guess what. you have still angered everyone who voted B. None of us know exactly how popular every change is, but having votes does not stop people from hating a change.

    2) Maybe its the nature of forums and dev interaction but people in MMO's are probably the most interactive of any entertainment industry. we never get to decide how a film is made, a show, a book, some music. sure they may listen to feedback but no one ever gets to vote on things. MMO's give us unprecedented power in voicing our opinions and seeing those opinions affect the game. yet we always want more. well at some point the people making the game just have to make it their way. if they keep making choices you dont like, then people stop playing. thats business.

    3) changes happen on a weekly basic and in some number. they cant poll everything. it would be a mess. I have no problem polling big things like which faction do you want, or what storyline do you want expanded on as is very hard to go wrong with those. they are simple, and you do want to please the most number of people. Your choice may not win, but chances are you will still like the outcome.

    4) polling balance changes and game mechanics is a very bad idea as most people really dont know what they want or are not thinking about things from 'whats best for the game'
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    This will drive the game into the ground. Why do you think that nationstates are not run by polling the population for every single bill that is proposed?
    EnYn9p9.jpg
  • pyryckpyryck Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think we need some sort of polling here in the forums with up voting for ideas that we think are good and down voting ideas we think are bad.

    This would serve as a better indicator of the forum readers thoughts on matters because not everyone wants to compose a 5000 word posted essay on the good or bad aspects of an idea.
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    This is like when your kids think they should get a vote in how the house is run...

    Merriment ensues.
    _________________________________________________
    [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
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    Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    naevius wrote: »
    This is like when your kids think they should get a vote in how the house is run...

    Merriment ensues.

    I vote for Candy for dinner, and cake for lunch.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • alarikunalarikun Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have to post about this "Penalty Timer." There's no penalty. You get an EXTRA REWARD if you complete the STF within the allotted time. If you don't, no worries, you can still finish it without any issue.
    Original Join Date: January 2010
    Original Name: -Gen-Alaris
    Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
  • stardestroyer001stardestroyer001 Member Posts: 2,615 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    alarikun wrote: »
    I have to post about this "Penalty Timer." There's no penalty. You get an EXTRA REWARD if you complete the STF within the allotted time. If you don't, no worries, you can still finish it without any issue.

    The penalty timer is if a player decides to leave for any reason. The game places a 3600-second ban on any STF, if a player ditches an STF for any reason other than a Cryptic-side disconnect.
    stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
    Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
    My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
  • kaltoumkaltoum Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If the many players like yourself want to say something they should go to the forums. It's like politics. You don't get to sit at home and the politicians come and ask you, you have to go voting. Then they will do what they want anyway.

    Also do not expect much sympathy here. The leaver penalty is necessary, the only reason it can't be more severe is because no system can make a difference between someone leaving and someone having trouble with his connection. Concerning your big problems:

    afkers: A way to kick those is something people are asking for on the forums.

    a****: for many people leavers fit into that category

    join a mid eSTF that is going to fail or take a long time to finish: If you are unwilling to commit the time to see an STF through to the end even with a group of newbs or n00bs there are two ways: a) find a group of people who know what they are doing and join with them, b) stay out of STFs

    Forums are probably the worst way to take any surveys. Forums represent minority of total player base.

    If cryptic wants a real feedback they should make in game surveys like EQ2. That is how you get an idea about what players want before you implement changes.
    Once upon a time in galaxy far far away......
  • cookiecrookcookiecrook Member Posts: 4,577 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I would like to see all in-game missions have a rating system like the Foundry content. That way, Dev's can get a clear message as to what the players are enjoying after a person completes the mission for the first time on a toon. This would also help players avoid some of the more dreadful content STO has to offer.
    <
    > <
    > <
    >
    Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If the many players like yourself want to say something they should go to the forums. It's like politics. You don't get to sit at home and the politicians come and ask you, you have to go voting. Then they will do what they want anyway.

    Also do not expect much sympathy here. The leaver penalty is necessary, the only reason it can't be more severe is because no system can make a difference between someone leaving and someone having trouble with his connection. Concerning your big problems:

    afkers: A way to kick those is something people are asking for on the forums.

    a****: for many people leavers fit into that category

    join a mid eSTF that is going to fail or take a long time to finish: If you are unwilling to commit the time to see an STF through to the end even with a group of newbs or n00bs there are two ways: a) find a group of people who know what they are doing and join with them, b) stay out of STFs

    1. My point is only ab 10% of STOers r trolling the forum. So basically, the changes r made based on the feed back of those 10%. Why is 10%? STO must have couple thousands players, and only a couple hundred r seen on the forum. Why changes shouldnt be made on all players feedback? because majority of players will leave.

    2 Kick ppl? bad idea. Already foreseen the abuse of the kick button. Timer was put in because of quitter, resulting in afkers abuse. There r quitters with no timer, but ever1 can also leave and join a new pug. Btw, why do you care about changes in pug? It seems like you don't use pug but find-team-n-join option that you're so fond of talking about.

    3. Are you saying that is fair for ppl being forced to join a middle of broken eSTF and stuck there with TRIBBLE noobs/afkers? Personally, I would rather quit and suffer a 60mins CD than stay with a punch of TRIBBLE noobs/afkers who make the STF last more than 60mins.

    If the option of finding a group and join with them are so popular and loved as you says, why the hell they have to change the pug? Why don't the ppl who complain about quitters use that option instead? So stop talking TRIBBLE when ur reasoning is flaw.

    I like the freedom of being able not to play/talk with arses. Putting the penalty timer in pug is just preventing that. I didn't have problem with quitters since I can also leave and join new pug.

    In brief, why are we forced play with arses? Why does some1 think that penalty timer is just... is beyond me. Playing game is for fun... stuck with arses isn't.
  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited June 2013
    1. You must change your attitude about pugs

    Starfleet has sent the only 5 ships in range to do this mission
    some good
    some weak
    some average
    some powerful
    maybe even a enemy agent in your ranks/ AFKer


    I never heard McCoy say **Rammit** Jim we didnt get the opitional !!!!!!!
    Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
    Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
    Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng

    JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
  • crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There are a few issues.

    1) polling does not fix anything. if 51% vote A and 49% vote B, guess what. you have still angered everyone who voted B. None of us know exactly how popular every change is, but having votes does not stop people from hating a change.

    2) Maybe its the nature of forums and dev interaction but people in MMO's are probably the most interactive of any entertainment industry. we never get to decide how a film is made, a show, a book, some music. sure they may listen to feedback but no one ever gets to vote on things. MMO's give us unprecedented power in voicing our opinions and seeing those opinions affect the game. yet we always want more. well at some point the people making the game just have to make it their way. if they keep making choices you dont like, then people stop playing. thats business.

    3) changes happen on a weekly basic and in some number. they cant poll everything. it would be a mess. I have no problem polling big things like which faction do you want, or what storyline do you want expanded on as is very hard to go wrong with those. they are simple, and you do want to please the most number of people. Your choice may not win, but chances are you will still like the outcome.

    4) polling balance changes and game mechanics is a very bad idea as most people really dont know what they want or are not thinking about things from 'whats best for the game'

    Couldn't have said it better...at least we do get a chance to see where this game goes if you ACTIVELY participate in the forums...don't blame others for the lack of participation in tools that actually work for STO
    DUwNP.gif

  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    jellico1 wrote: »
    1. You must change your attitude about pugs

    Starfleet has sent the only 5 ships in range to do this mission
    some good
    some weak
    some average
    some powerful
    maybe even a enemy agent in your ranks/ AFKer


    I never heard McCoy say **Rammit** Jim we didnt get the opitional !!!!!!!
    Maybe the Enterprise wasn't grinding for an Omega set.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited June 2013
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  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    matrix0 wrote: »
    Cryptic devs shouldn't make any change to the game based on the complain and feedback on the forum 'cause 90% of STO do not hang around forum.

    It's not completely representative, but it represents the group of players who "care" most about the game in that they register and discuss it.
    matrix0 wrote: »
    I started reading the forum lately 'cause so many stupid changes were made to STO and ruin the my fun.

    Yes one of the biggest things that ruined the game was the addition of the Romulans (which were polled about and discussed on the forums) /sarcasm
    matrix0 wrote: »
    For example, I prefer things b4 the penalty timer. I have no problem whatsoever til they put the timer in. Now I have 3 big problems: afkers/arses/join a mid eSTF that is going to fail or take a long time to finish.

    This problem was endemic BEFORE the penalty timer. The problem is the players not the mechanisms they use to solve it.
    If you get banned from a queue because you left a match because you decided that you couldn't do it or you forgot your EV suit. You should take a hit, it's only an hour. Man Up and learn to play.
    matrix0 wrote: »
    So, I'm sure that many like myself, do appreciate if they do an in game survey b4 implementing any changes since only 10% maybe less players visit the forum.

    If you want an opinion and a vote, be pro active and go out on the forums and vote, like you would in real life; and like in real life, if you can't be bothered with things like forums and informed choice you can't complain when you get something you don't like.

    As this would be a change to the game that is only discussed on the forums. I vote no to this option thank you very much.
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kaltoum wrote: »
    Forums are probably the worst way to take any surveys. Forums represent minority of total player base.

    If cryptic wants a real feedback they should make in game surveys like EQ2. That is how you get an idea about what players want before you implement changes.

    Forums represent the minority of the total player base that actually cares for the game.
    matrix0 wrote: »
    1. My point is only ab 10% of STOers r trolling the forum. So basically, the changes r made based on the feed back of those 10%. Why is 10%? STO must have couple thousands players, and only a couple hundred r seen on the forum. Why changes shouldnt be made on all players feedback? because majority of players will leave.

    Because those 10% actually care to give feedback and the others don't actually leave?
    matrix0 wrote: »
    2 Kick ppl? bad idea. Already foreseen the abuse of the kick button. Timer was put in because of quitter, resulting in afkers abuse.

    So you think that people who would have quit usually now go AFK? Funny, I was under the impression that they were after the rewards without doing anything.
    matrix0 wrote: »
    There r quitters with no timer, but ever1 can also leave and join a new pug. Btw, why do you care about changes in pug? It seems like you don't use pug but find-team-n-join option that you're so fond of talking about.

    Nope, I do pug exclusively. But I have never willingly left a group. I have however already seen my fair share of quitters when things didn't go perfectly and have absolutely no love or respect for them. They are only marginally better than people who go afk.
    matrix0 wrote: »
    3. Are you saying that is fair for ppl being forced to join a middle of broken eSTF and stuck there with a**** noobs/afkers? Personally, I would rather quit and suffer a 60mins CD than stay with a punch of TRIBBLE noobs/afkers who make the STF last more than 60mins.

    Yep. It's fair towards those people who got their team reduced by leavers. And if you prefer the 60 minutes penalty to playing something for the normal rewards then that's your choice. Don't complain about the consequences.
    matrix0 wrote: »
    If the option of finding a group and join with them are so popular and loved as you says, why the hell they have to change the pug? Why don't the ppl who complain about quitters use that option instead? So stop talking TRIBBLE when ur reasoning is flaw.

    Who said anything about the option being popular or loved? I told you the two ways to avoid the leaver penalty.
    matrix0 wrote: »
    I like the freedom of being able not to play/talk with a****. Putting the penalty timer in pug is just preventing that. I didn't have problem with quitters since I can also leave and join new pug.

    Yeah, I'm sure it's fun to find a new PUG everytime someone decides that he doesn't want to continue because he won't get the 15 bonus marks, or because he blew up for the third time or whatever. :rolleyes:
    matrix0 wrote: »
    In brief, why are we forced play with a****? Why does some1 think that penalty timer is just... is beyond me. Playing game is for fun... stuck with a**** isn't.

    It's simple. It's to keep people like you either in STFs or out of them. Quitters make the game worse for the other players, just like leechers.
    FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
    Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
  • wilbor2wilbor2 Member Posts: 1,691 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    i do seem to remember a poll last year some time, a Rommy faction came out on top and we got a new faction to play with. i did not vote for the Roms but i have really injoyed it, i just hope there will poll us on what we wont in the next big season.

    as for AFKers we the forum uses have been calling for a fix to this problem for the past year that ive been useing the forums but the Devs just ignore us.
    gs9kwcxytstg.jpg
  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    Removing the penalty timer is a bad idea, no matter how many threads you try to make about it.

    Really? I don't see any. I've never got any problem b4 timer. Now, I do. I don't like being forced to play with afkers and arses. Do you? Nukara pug is the lastest example why timer is stupid. The mission has 100% fail rate when a punch of ppl do not have ev suit or dont stay at the consoles but run around shooting. So, why can we quit from the beginning when we know that the mission will fail? Are you saying it's ok for one or two players to ruin things for the rest? It sounds illogical to me.

    I only see one problem (with no penalty timer from leaving): quitters. So what? they can quit, so can I. Joining new pug is better than stuck playing with a punch of arses n afkers imho.

    Not sure why devs implemented the timer because I don't remember having any problem with quitters or anything else back then.
  • otowiotowi Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I can see where the OP is comming from. But this will not happen.

    Sure it would be nice if they had polls about certain changes, if only to get a feeling of how well received or not said changes would be.

    Unfortunatly, this will most likely not happen, since it would only lead to one of the sides getting upset one way or the other....

    Nice thought thou OP...
  • jumpingjsjumpingjs Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Click here if you want to know why that would not work, and perhaps if there was a voting system , how we could do it.
    Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.

    I hope STO get's better ...
  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The leaver penalty is necessary, the only reason it can't be more severe is because no system can make a difference between someone leaving and someone having trouble with his connection.
    Absolutely untrue.

    Being able to tell the difference between someone leaving (warping out) and someone having trouble with his connection (connection closed/timeout) is a fairly basic difference, quite easily distinguished, and definitely able to deal with each case in a programmatically graceful way.

    -- Smoov
  • assimilatedktarassimilatedktar Member Posts: 1,708 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    smoovious wrote: »
    Absolutely untrue.

    Being able to tell the difference between someone leaving (warping out) and someone having trouble with his connection (connection closed/timeout) is a fairly basic difference, quite easily distinguished, and definitely able to deal with each case in a programmatically graceful way.

    -- Smoov

    Yeah, "warping out". I have my WLAN USB stick right in arms reach. I could simply pull it out for a few seconds until the game disconnects me and then relog after a few minutes.
    FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
    Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
  • smoovioussmoovious Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The problem isn't for when they make changes that add some new functionality.

    The problem is when that new functionality, _replaces_ old functionality.

    For changes that have nothing to do with the interaction, and solely affects the user interface, how the player controls his character, there is little need to replace the old.

    The server itself doesn't give a damn if the commands it receives from the client, was done through the old UI or the new UI, for example. It doesn't make the distinction. UI choice is solely for the user's side of things, activating functions that get sent to the server through the communcations protocol.

    Take the new UI scheme for example. I still have yet to hear any convincing explanation why the old UI _had_ to be taken out.

    Sure, some thought it outdated, and others thought it ugly... but guess what... plenty of people think the same exact thing about the new UI.

    The new UI has its positives and negatives, and the old UI has its own positives and negatives as well... given the choice, I would still be using the old UI as my own personal preference.

    And... that's the thing.

    No single scheme being forced on everyone, is going to please everyone, but making the choice of which UI to use, will. Whenever the user has a choice to customize his experience to his own liking, everyone wins. Nobody is forced to use one over the other, and everyone can choose for themselves which works better for them.

    It isn't just STO either... this happens time and time again in other games, and non-game software as well.

    User choice has to be the priority, and removing functionality, should only occur, when no other option is possible.

    In the case of the UI and the no-shoulder-cam/first-person feature we lost, they didn't do that. They just imposed, and we lost.

    In any event, what they think the users want, based on what they see on the forums, has to be taken with a grain of salt, too. There are many posters who are quite loud and frequent with their opinions, and they may not necessarily be the ones that should be listened to.

    It is easy to be loud and visible and say what you want a lot and be noticed. That doesn't mean they really know what they're talking about.

    There are plenty of posters, who aren't so obnoxious or dramatic, who post less frequently, but when they do post, have put a lot of serious thought behind the opinions and ideas they are sharing.

    With the sheer volume on the forums, Cryptic is hard-pressed to be able to tell who is worth listening to and who isn't.

    Hell, some of the people that post on the forums, do so so often, that I wonder how they have any time left to actually play the game!

    Anyways... my 2-cents...

    -- Smoov
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  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    You don't have to be. Make friends, socialize, utilize existing chat channels or create your own and form teams of people you know. You'll never have an issue with AFK'ers again. The only person responsible for you being teamed with people you don't like is you.


    Your reasoning is flaw.

    1st, if u argue that ppl should team up with friends to avoid arses/afkers, I can also use the same faulty logic to argue that you should team up with friends to avoid quitters. Hence, no need for penalty timer or pug.

    2nd, Without timer we only have 1 problem to deal with: quitters. With timer, we have several problems: afkers, arses, morons and being forced into an existed pug (i.e. I was forced to join an existed queue where good players quit because of either arses or afkers. So now I have to try to finish it or wait for it to fail. I don't see any fairness in this.)

    3rd, forming team and play sound wonderful... but time consuming and not really practical. If this option is so much better then pug... why the hell pug is still here and kicking? because pug it's practical and fast. No matter how many friends you got... u can queue/join freely and efficiently as pug.

    So stop using the same flaw and pointless argument. I show every1 that the penalty timer creates more problems than benefits
  • snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    matrix0 wrote: »
    Cryptic devs shouldn't make any change to the game based on the complain and feedback on the forum 'cause 90% of STO do not hang around forum.

    They don't really make changes based on forum complaints.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • edited June 2013
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