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Super speed Jem'Hadar Attack Ship lulz build

marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited July 2013 in PvP Gameplay
I have been playing around with this a few days and its so fun I thought I would share it here. I am even running circles around other bugships and eaily outrunning them so it seems most aren't using this ship to its full potential. This may be op though as it can stay permanently at full impulse like speed during combat while running max weapons by cycling speed buffs or get to close to 300 speed by using all buffs at once. This build can also be done with the Fleet Saber, or the new risian corvette can do it even better by bumping epte1 up to 3 which will be absolutley ridiculous. Speed is getting out of control since LoR and I think we all need to abuse the heck out of it until they balance skills like epte, and enjoy it while it lasts. You can keep going in and out of range of people in seconds, doing strafing runs to harass people and throw them off so they won't be sure when exactly you will come back into range fully buffed, you can pick targets anywhere on the map and be there in seconds to kill them and back across the map again. Nobody can outrun you and nobody can catch you with this.
PVE you can guard all sides of map in KASE or CSE and still be fast enough to dps structures in between, it makes STF with bad pugs doable.

2x APO
1x EPTE 1
1x Aux2ID 1

Helsman trait

3x purple evasive manuver conn doffs
2x purple Damage control doffs

Omega or fleet hyper engines

engine power warp core with W->E and ECap

Deuterium and RMC devices

max impulse thrusters skill and at least 6 ranks in engine performance
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Post edited by marc8219 on

Comments

  • captainednacaptainedna Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    1 subnuc ,1 nukara mine and few tb mines will make that op less op.Or graviton pulse ...

    you can use the same thing on all ships not only on bug and outrun all ships....even your healer :rolleyes:
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited June 2013
    Bug ships are pretty scary but less so when they run around out at crazy speeds. I ignore 'em and their muted dps and focus on slower ships.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    1 subnuc ,1 nukara mine and few tb mines will make that op less op.Or graviton pulse ...

    you can use the same thing on all ships not only on bug and outrun all ships....even your healer :rolleyes:

    Not really all ships have the turn to handle the crazy speed or have the boff layout to be able to keep epte and epts up full time and run aux2id and the bug has best impulse mod until Corvette comes out.

    I have been subnucced sometimes, but even then unless you immediately hit with mines or movement debuff it won't matter because I will still be going pretty fast and another buff will be up soon, so it takes coordination to stop which is hard when you busy fighting other people. Don't need heals too much when people can't target you or keep you in arc., but even then you can always dart in for a quick heal and out if you want. That said it won't be best in a premade arena team that uses lots of cross healing though, but great in Kerrat or cap and hold with lots of distance to cover.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    Bug ships are pretty scary but less so when they run around out at crazy speeds. I ignore 'em and their muted dps and focus on slower ships.

    I have been able to rack up great dps and kills with this, I am not always moving at this speed 100% of time. I do move fast to do strafing runs to cause chaos and try to break fedballs up, but then can move quickly to pick off lone targets or people trying to get back to the fight before they regroup. Also my dps is so high in a bug I do get kills at full speed without slowing down too though. You have less time to do dps but have surprise on your side and catch people unbuffed or without a healer.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • captainednacaptainedna Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    Don't need heals too much when people can't target you or keep you in arc., but even then you can always dart in for a quick heal and out if you want.

    exactly ,people will kill your team and leave you alone :D

    same if you get a really tanky ship with no damage or heals....you will float alone like the ugly kid and no one will play with you lol

    still that build is fun...I mean you can see the whole map (kerrat is really big) in few seconds :D
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited June 2013
    I use 2 copies of AtoD on my steamrunner ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    @rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
    @rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
    @rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11039521&postcount=52

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=11043071&postcount=122

    I am referencing the above two posts and respond to them here in this thread where it is more appropriate. So I in fact did run into the OP's super fast bug ship in Kerrat and killed it, albeit there were indeed other Feds there, so it wasn't a 1 vs 1, for full disclosure.
    marc8219 wrote:
    I will be using my max speed bugship build on the corvette though, it might go so fast you won't be able to even time anything like a a grav pulse on me. You might have caught my superfast bug in kerrat not sure it did die once there past weekend but so many people i was zooming around hard to tell

    Generally speaking, I rarely use the Graviton Pulse although it's there in the inventory, as a part of my one floating console space. The way I disable any fast moving ships in Kerrat or elsewhere doesn't typically involve the Graviton Pulse since I need that console space for survivability in Kerrat where the risk of being ambushed or gang up is very high.

    Now to disable you, it starts with a well timed Subnuke beam, whether you have ST or not, because it will remove your APO and send your 2nd copy of APO into a very long CD. Keep in mind, pretty much everyone and their dogs have EPtE these days so your speed advantage is in fact never that great to begin with. Mine is no exception and given my ship is super agile and it runs EPtE + APO3 every 15 sec, matching your maneuvers is not an issue. Your speed and turn is only effective against cruisers and ships that are slow to begin with - not against other ships that are also very agile and there is no shortage of them in Starfleet. I too am intimately familiar with ultra high speed ship, its strengths and weaknesses because at some point in the past, I have experimented with it but eventually decided such approach underperforms expectations. So I'll point out a major weakness of this design for everyone here to know - in order to achieve ultra high speed, this requires your engine to be a "Hyper-Impulse" type. However, whether it's the Fleet version or the Omega Force version, neither of them is protected against disable or has any form of self-repair as say for example the Adapted MACO/Honor Guard engine has. So if you are constantly running EPtE, the Subnuke would have debuff it and send your EPtE into a long CD, which means you can't use it to repair your engines. All of sudden, both your APO and EPtE are offline and in long CD and you have no way of repairing engine if disabled. This means at that moment, you will be very vulnerable to things like Viral Matrix and other powers.

    To make my life easier, I use an under-rated skill - Tractor Beam 3. You won't see many people running it because it isn't "sexy" like other skills and with the popularity of Aux to Bat, it's often overlooked. On my ship, which maintains Aux at 125, and PG = +116, that thing is in fact what killed most of my victims. The snare it creates with some points into Graviton Genrators and the post-shield hull damage just stops most ships who have just been subnuked totally dead in the water. You'd be surprised for such easily counterble skill, people aren't spec to counter it, aka. Polarize Hull, and certainly most Escorts aren't prepared to deal with it due to their over-reliance on APO. They are seriously unprepared to deal with being held without APO. Yes, I note you have Evasive Maneuvers and with 3 X Conn Officer + Helmsman, you can reduce its CD down to 20 sec. In my eyes, that 20 sec is enough to make the kill - the reason being EM only lasts 8 sec whereas tractor beam 3 last 17 sec. One way or the other, you are going to spend a full 9 sec if not more totally dead in the water. During that 9 seconds, your Defense will drop to pretty much 0, if not lower. My weapons all have 20%+ critical chance and critical severity about 90% to begin with, with your defense being 0 - it won't be pretty. 9 seconds is also enough for the web mines to deploy and do their damage. Because my attacks ignore shields, no amount of shielding or EPtS or TSS can protect you against my attacks.

    In any event, another danger of your high speed build is that you will kill yourself by flying right into web mines. When I see some escorts just running around like mindless mosquitos, I set the web mines to auto fire. These bug traps work like a charm. Sure enough, at their ultra high speed, they just fly right into them with no time to react or change course since these mines have very low energy signature.

    I still don't understand why Klignons should have access to the Risian Corvette, a Federation T5 combat vessel. If it had been the other way around, the crying from the Klink would have shut these forums down by now. One way or the other, to assume Starfleet doesn't know how to deal with ultra-fast combat vessels is simply hysterical. We could practically write the manual on this specific style of combat, all its strengths and weaknesses and how to counter. So unlike what others think where they will just go after your "friends", I will come after you.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The only manual you wrote is on ego, and you add to it daily. Who are you?

    Grav pulse and sub-nuc? That's your answer? That works on, oh wait, everything. Don't pretend it's any bit of skill on your part to put those two together to get a kill.

    And responding seriously with how you'll curbstomp a build that has "lulz" in the title...
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • masterkeychnk5masterkeychnk5 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, EptE and all others still needed a buff, but if you think its too much we should consider nerfing EptS instead. But yeah I'm running a T'varo with 2x EptE and its fun as hell, a bit squishy tho without EptS :D


    Lulz Graviton, lets buff it to 60 seconds :D

    I wonder how these skills are justified if you have them buffed or unbuffed. Some ppl only obtain 20/30 sec on it. When does it become OP?

    Is an OP console suddenly allowed when you dont spec into it skill tree/console wise? I think that doesnt matter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am not Snakie, MT is!
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, EptE and all others still needed a buff, but if you think its too much we should consider nerfing EptS instead. But yeah I'm running a T'varo with 2x EptE and its fun as hell, a bit squishy tho without EptS :D


    Lulz Graviton, lets buff it to 60 seconds :D

    I wonder how these skills are justified if you have them buffed or unbuffed. Some ppl only obtain 20/30 sec on it. When does it become OP?

    Is an OP console suddenly allowed when you dont spec into it skill tree/console wise? I think that doesnt matter.

    This is from STO wiki, so it might be incorrect.

    But let's take a look:



    Graviton Pulse
    Cone Engine Debuff
    90' targeting arc (up to 10 targets in area of effect cone)
    -66% Speed for 8 sec
    -80% Turn rate for 8 sec
    15% Chance: to take Impulse Engines Offline for 16 sec


    Base is...8s, with a follow up power that is only 15% for 16s.

    I'd say that console is ok, unbuffed.




    That's where this gets wonky.


    So, my question is:

    Just what the hell interaction is going on that allows this to get up to 20, 30 or even 50s durations?


    Is there any other power in the game that through skills/consoles allows you magnify the duration by 6x?

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say "no, there isn't".



    To put this into perspective, it would be like taking Gravity Well and buffing it so it's duration becomes 120 seconds, or two full minutes of gravity well, or alternatively a 60s Tractor Beam 1.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't been hit with one in a few months, but I've had it persist through APO and other things so that when it wore off the debuff reapplied.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • twamtwam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So ehm, people are actually getting kills with these EPtE/AP:O builds?

    The ones I encountered so far were just buzzing all over the place like an ADD squirrel on PCP, but didn't pose any threat that I couldn't shake off, without interrupting what I was doing... I pretty much presumed these weren't the best of players, but still, I had my doubt with the effectiveness of these fly-by tactics.
  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,415 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I get lots of kills with mine. I'm not quite so lucky to have a bugship, so I'm using a fleet defiant retrofit- but otherwise built like the one in the OP with some minor changes due to unavailability of certain doffs.

    Using the Jem Hadar XII deflector (for +26.2 inertial dampers, and the +2% stealthsight, which is useful against klingons but useless against roms running all +stealth rom boffs), and using the Omega 'efficient at high power levels' engines, which provide a great boost to speed and turn letting me really zip around.

    3x Dual heavies fore, 2x turrets back, 2 copies of cannon rapid fire 1. 1x dual beam bank fore and 1x breen cluster aft. I'm an engineer captain so I get extra power, using a wep->eng and ecap warp core, eng batteries, evasive/helmsman, and the eng trait to boost power across the board.

    My build centers around using beam overload 3-1 to spike on my attack runs.

    So a typical attack run involves me at full weapon power decloaking, hitting them with a beam overload chain, flying past and dropping a breen cluster on them. If this doesn't kill them- and it won't for a lot of enemies- by the time I swing around for a second past my power levels have recharged and my beam overloads have recharged also. This way I can keep doing high damage while in weapons range, rather than having to 'slow down' to stay on target.
  • ivantomdisplayivantomdisplay Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It was fun to chase that bug in Kerrat last night. Boy he is fast, I LoL'd.
    [10:49] [Combat (Self)] Your Proton Barrage deals 96581 (43411) Proton(Critical) to Seto.
    Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    redricky wrote: »
    The only manual you wrote is on ego, and you add to it daily. Who are you?

    Grav pulse and sub-nuc? That's your answer? That works on, oh wait, everything. Don't pretend it's any bit of skill on your part to put those two together to get a kill.

    And responding seriously with how you'll curbstomp a build that has "lulz" in the title...

    It is pretty dangerous in some situations like running around kerrat suprising people everywhere, but it isn't too serious of a build so I called it that, I wouldn't do arena with my fleet in it and make it too hard for healers, and it has trouble handling other bugs 1v1
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, EptE and all others still needed a buff, but if you think its too much we should consider nerfing EptS instead. But yeah I'm running a T'varo with 2x EptE and its fun as hell, a bit squishy tho without EptS :D


    Lulz Graviton, lets buff it to 60 seconds :D

    I wonder how these skills are justified if you have them buffed or unbuffed. Some ppl only obtain 20/30 sec on it. When does it become OP?

    Is an OP console suddenly allowed when you dont spec into it skill tree/console wise? I think that doesnt matter.

    I mostly did this build as an experiment at first then found out about the ludicrous speeds you can maintain, it leads me to think maybe there should be a slight nerf to epte, and/or maybe some kind of diminishing returns on movement buff stacking or some kind of hard cap.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »

    To make my life easier, I use an under-rated skill - Tractor Beam 3. You won't see many .

    good point about hyper not resisting disable and tractor beam 3. I been using tb2 or 3 on some other ships also with high aux to still be able to hold people with epte.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    redricky wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong because I haven't been hit with one in a few months, but I've had it persist through APO and other things so that when it wore off the debuff reapplied.

    That's a good question, I've not tested that. If I have some time I will, but the next 3 weeks are pretty hectic.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    Not really all ships have the turn to handle the crazy speed or have the boff layout to be able to keep epte and epts up full time and run aux2id and the bug has best impulse mod until Corvette comes out.

    I have been subnucced sometimes, but even then unless you immediately hit with mines or movement debuff it won't matter because I will still be going pretty fast and another buff will be up soon, so it takes coordination to stop which is hard when you busy fighting other people. Don't need heals too much when people can't target you or keep you in arc., but even then you can always dart in for a quick heal and out if you want. That said it won't be best in a premade arena team that uses lots of cross healing though, but great in Kerrat or cap and hold with lots of distance to cover.

    Dear Talia,

    Based on the results from last night in Kerrat where your super fast Sci B'rel was smashed into pieces 3 times by a "slow whale ship", perhaps you want to reconsider this strategy? :D Even T'Powah could grab you in a tractor - though I never understood why you picked on T'Powah, Starlfeet Medical, to begin with given he is a pure healer and can debuff all your SS, VM, Subnuke and other nuisance tactics. It goes to show your above described strategy is outdated. Oh, and I don't think you were hit by the Web Mines at all but you died anyway. Too bad, because you can't blame it on the mines. :D
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    Dear Talia,

    Based on the results from last night in Kerrat where your super fast Sci B'rel was smashed into pieces 3 times by a "slow whale ship", perhaps you want to reconsider this strategy? :D Even T'Powah could grab you in a tractor - though I never understood why you picked on T'Powah, Starlfeet Medical, to begin with given he is a pure healer and can debuff all your SS, VM, Subnuke and other nuisance tactics. It goes to show your above described strategy is outdated. Oh, and I don't think you were hit by the Web Mines at all but you died anyway. Too bad, because you can't blame it on the mines. :D

    *Points at thread title* In case you missed it, it was a B'Rel he was in, and this thread describes a JHAS. He's not necessarily using the same tactic. Not to mention this thread was done nearly a month ago now. Of course some aspects are going to be semi-outdated.

    Furthermore, healer interference is something a Sci B'Rel can definitely be used for. Forcing a healer to burn heals/cleanses on himself instead of another target.

    Your vendetta is beginning to make you sound very short-sighted and immature. You resurrected an old thread to do nothing but bring in your old web mine stuff again.
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO! It's Marc's face pulled back to his ears as he flies past me in arena in 0.5 warp speed O.o
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Is it a bird? Is it a plane? NO! It's Marc's face pulled back to his ears as he flies past me in arena in 0.5 warp speed O.o

    Like Clarkson in this?: http://youtu.be/6v4YNkurhLk :D
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Yes! Just like that!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
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