The penalty timer created unforeseen problems/abuses:
1. Afkers
2. Joining a mid-pug where noobs were so bad/incompetent that all the good players left. The only options available were either quit the pug or trying to finish it, and no matter what option we chose... we suffer from time penalty - it's either penalty timer from leaving the pug or it would take a long time to finish it.
If the penalty timer was removed:
1. less rage and stress 'cause we could leave a pug that had arses ruining the fun for everyone.
2. if some1 decided to afk during the pug, every1 else could just leave the afker all alone there til he returned. Personally, I find this is the most fitting and best answer to afker.
Why kick option would eventually lead to other abuses/complained:
1. kick vote would eventually become a form of grieving.
2. we would still suffer the time penalty even we could kick the afker since all pugs were team oriented.
3. There would be bug, and we wont be able to play. Didn't we just have a pug bug that kick ppl out of the instance upon joining?
who cares if i want to run the same mission over and over..
its the same as running other missions back to back.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
As a fine upstanding poster here in the STO forums I would just like to let you know that you could be found in violation of the TOS for the forums as petitions are not allowed.:)
If they remove the timers I could play an STF with you and bail just before the optional completes, then I can see you 5 minutes later when I re-run the mission that you bailed on too.
who cares if i want to run the same mission over and over..
its the same as running other missions back to back.
Indeed. The only reason I can think of is limit the dil we can earn. However, it's kinda pointless since the daily refined dil is limited to 8k. I do not have a problem with the CD timer but the penalty timer from leaving pug.
But there are other factors that make people leave.
Someone gets mad for no reason and leaves all of a sudden. Even with the penalty, what if its at a critical stage of the stf(donatra,tactical cube, etc.). I also noticed in a stf, if one person leaves, everyone is follows. making everyone have to start STF over again.
I got a idea too, to back up your idea, to counter the above problem. I know this probably already happens but not much from my experience. Make it so if someone leaves, for what ever reason it may be, that immediately someone waiting to get into a match, gets thrown in to your match to fill in for the person that left and still get full awards or small deduction of awards.
I got another idea off topic from yours that may work. A timer. IF someone goes AFK and does not re-enter combat within 90 seconds gets booted and my other idea above takes place.
I'm unsure when/why all those timers were implemented anyway 'cause there wasn't any timer when I left to play stwor couple months ago.
Playing STO nowadays is less enjoyable due to all the stress/rage caused by arses/noobs in pug imo.
I'm not sure why cryptic listen to whiners on the forum since it's only ab 10% of STO players frequent forum. Kinda stupid. They should do in-game survey before doing any change based on forum complain. The most concrete example is AFkers that every1 seems to complain. I'm using pug daily and hardly encounter any afker.
I only want to have an option to leave a pug without penalty if the players I'm with, ruining the fun for me. We play game to relax and have fun not to increase our stress lvl due to arses imo.
I'm not sure why cryptic listen to whiners on the forum since it's only ab 10% of STO players frequent forum. Kinda stupid.
I agree with this. They should do a in game survey. But I dont really want, even if its only 10% of the people, for their ideas to go away. I think there should be a thread(and a notification to the players of the thread), that is solely based on a certain issue, for people to provide ideas to fix. Then we take the top ideas(idk they install a like button to keep track of who likes whos ideas), and then take those and throw them into a survey in game to allow people to "vote" or express why or why not they like the idea. And put a like and dislike button for the voting process.
I try not to let other people ruin my experience, its just a game.
But there are other factors that make people leave.
Someone gets mad for no reason and leaves all of a sudden. Even with the penalty, what if its at a critical stage of the stf(donatra,tactical cube, etc.). I also noticed in a stf, if one person leaves, everyone is follows. making everyone have to start STF over again.
I got a idea too, to back up your idea, to counter the above problem. I know this probably already happens but not much from my experience. Make it so if someone leaves, for what ever reason it may be, that immediately someone waiting to get into a match, gets thrown in to your match to fill in for the person that left and still get full awards or small deduction of awards.
I got another idea off topic from yours that may work. A timer. IF someone goes AFK and does not re-enter combat within 90 seconds gets booted and my other idea above takes place.
Penalty timer don't really prevent ppl from leaving pug imo 'cause once they're fed up, they would leave... as I would... timer or not However imo, the ppl who lose the most in penalty timer are the normal players since as I've mentioned before, all STO pugs are team oriented, so it would take longer to finish with less players. Hence, the ones who left in the pug already suffer time penalty.
Setting watchdog subroutines to monitor each player input/output isn't simple or easy as everyone seems to think. The biggest problem is resource hogging. Monitor 1 individual may not require much but the resources required r massive when it's applied to large group... unless you don't mind having disconnected/slowness/stability problem.
Life was fine b4 penalty timer... at least we didnt have to deal with afkers or quitters or TRIBBLE noobs
Umm the penalty wasn't added for no reason. It was asked for because of the quitters. People would just leave after the first person died without letting people get warmed up and it mostly resulted in a chain reaction of quitters!
Umm the penalty wasn't added for no reason. It was asked for because of the quitters. People would just leave after the first person died without letting people get warmed up and it mostly resulted in a chain reaction of quitters!
They were not happy days.
Now we got afkers due to timer.
I prefer the old pug. I rather choose quitters over afkers. At least we have the option to leave and join another pug.
I just can't sign this petition. I think all it would do is put us right back in the bad situation we were in before the timers...and vote kick is just a bad idea period. So where does this leave all of us for a solution? No idea. LOL
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
I prefer the old pug. I rather choose quitters over afkers. At least we have the option to leave and join another pug.
yes we do matrix, but doing your suggestion we will have BOTH quitters and afkers at the same time & in the same pugs, and that would just ruin the pug queues altogether.
We have a punishment in place for the quitters now that is at least some deterent to bad behavior.....now we just need a working solution to the afk problem also. And i should also say that those solutions should not punish the innocent players just out to have a fun evening before bedtime.
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Afkers have always been in this game they did not magically appear becasue the timer.
yes, there were afkers... and we had the option to leave them b4 timer. Now we don't. Therefore, I prefer the no timer and deal with quitters than dealing with afkers.
yes, there were afkers... and we had the option to leave them b4 timer. Now we don't. Therefore, I prefer the no timer and deal with quitters than dealing with afkers.
Running into AFKers is mostly your own fault. Socialize, make friends/contacts and team with people you know. No more AFKers for you.
How many people are needed to add to friends list so you can play whatever mission you want when you want without having to wait who knows how long to do said mission?
Someone would have to add a great many to be able to have good chances to always have enough people online to play the missions with but even then their are things that could stop that such as timer cooldown for missions they could have or no one wants to do those mission because they want to do something else or any other number of things.
No the only way to be able to play what you want when you want is to pug. The pug experience needs to be improved by either making leeching not provide rewards for said leechers or let people leave without penalty so if someone leeches people can leave and the leecher will be in a mission with no one and the leecher gets the message that people wont deal with leeching.
I'm guessing that if the leaver penalty if removed , pugers will then have to deal with yet one more troublesome personality type : Cartman-esque elite players.
"Whoa,,,three cruisers? Forget this. I'm going hooo-oooome. "
"An Engineer? No one plays those anymore noob. I'm ...outta here (and going home)"
"I'll start the other side instead of mopping up nanite spheres left over from the first one. Don't like it? I'm ...... goin home."
It will provide consequence free drama queening , and we will be seeing the queens a lot if they can jump into the next stf after whatever they do in the previous one.
Enduting that would be fine if the AFKers would actually be affected, but they won't. The fact they don't care how they look, what it says about their fleet or how it reflects on them personally will not be changed just because it takes five minutes for the team membership to settle down at the start of the match.
Whatever change to address AFKers is made needs to IMPACT THE AFKERS.
Monitoring the AFKers won't work
Vote to Kick is open to abuse
So what about, for lack of a better term, a "Lazy Sod Button" ?
How it works:
Mission starts and Player 1 goes AFK.
Player 2 presses the LSB and it starts a countdown clock.
If Player 3 presses thier LSB then the countdown runs faster, same for Player's 4 and 5.
If the clock reaches zero then the mission fails and everyone goes home.
Yes, it wastes a bit of genuine players time but the point is to stop AFK'ers leeching off other people. If they gain nothing from going AFK then there is no point in them doing it.
Now, if any player who has pressed thier LSB moves or uses an ability etc, then it cancels thier part in the "self-destruct" slowing the clock down.
In theory this could be abused by griefers starting a mission and then hitting the LSB, but if the initial timer is long enough then the other 4 players have a choice to either try and finish the mission in the time available or hit thier own LSB's and hasten the end.
If all mission rewards are moved to only be given at the end, then it stops people doing optionals and nuking the missions. The only thing it wouldn't prevent is where teams fail optionals and decide to pull the plug on the mission, but I don't see that being a huge problem.
Person 1: There are bad people in pugs, I want a way to not have to deal with them like leaving without a penalty or a vote kick or an AFK timer from cyptic based off of damage dealt/abilities activated.
Person 2: You have a way to no deal with bad people in pugs: join a fleet, make friends, use channels. All your ideas are unnecessary and open to abuse.
What I don't understand, and never see anyone address, is why Person 2 cares if it's open to abuse, or unnecessary.
Person 2 obviously doesn't pug. Person 2 has fleetmates, friends, etc that they run with.
If a system were implemented by Cryptic to address these issues, even an imperfect one, and it was abused, it still wouldn't affect Person 2. Obviously their friends/fleeties wouldn't abuse it with them.
So the only people who would suffer the abuse are the people who currently pug, and those are the very people who are asking for some system to be put in place. Obviously, they're ok with the potential for abuse and feel the tradeoff would be worth it.
So to all the Person 2s out there, please explain why it matters to you, or in what way it affects your gameplay or experience in STO if people who are forced to pug get a system to deal with leechers and afkers that has the potential for abuse.
_________________________________________________
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.
Comments
who cares if i want to run the same mission over and over..
its the same as running other missions back to back.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
As a fine upstanding poster here in the STO forums I would just like to let you know that you could be found in violation of the TOS for the forums as petitions are not allowed.:)
Forums are for discussions.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Indeed. The only reason I can think of is limit the dil we can earn. However, it's kinda pointless since the daily refined dil is limited to 8k. I do not have a problem with the CD timer but the penalty timer from leaving pug.
But there are other factors that make people leave.
Someone gets mad for no reason and leaves all of a sudden. Even with the penalty, what if its at a critical stage of the stf(donatra,tactical cube, etc.). I also noticed in a stf, if one person leaves, everyone is follows. making everyone have to start STF over again.
I got a idea too, to back up your idea, to counter the above problem. I know this probably already happens but not much from my experience. Make it so if someone leaves, for what ever reason it may be, that immediately someone waiting to get into a match, gets thrown in to your match to fill in for the person that left and still get full awards or small deduction of awards.
I got another idea off topic from yours that may work. A timer. IF someone goes AFK and does not re-enter combat within 90 seconds gets booted and my other idea above takes place.
Playing STO nowadays is less enjoyable due to all the stress/rage caused by arses/noobs in pug imo.
I'm not sure why cryptic listen to whiners on the forum since it's only ab 10% of STO players frequent forum. Kinda stupid. They should do in-game survey before doing any change based on forum complain. The most concrete example is AFkers that every1 seems to complain. I'm using pug daily and hardly encounter any afker.
I only want to have an option to leave a pug without penalty if the players I'm with, ruining the fun for me. We play game to relax and have fun not to increase our stress lvl due to arses imo.
I agree with this. They should do a in game survey. But I dont really want, even if its only 10% of the people, for their ideas to go away. I think there should be a thread(and a notification to the players of the thread), that is solely based on a certain issue, for people to provide ideas to fix. Then we take the top ideas(idk they install a like button to keep track of who likes whos ideas), and then take those and throw them into a survey in game to allow people to "vote" or express why or why not they like the idea. And put a like and dislike button for the voting process.
I try not to let other people ruin my experience, its just a game.
Penalty timer don't really prevent ppl from leaving pug imo 'cause once they're fed up, they would leave... as I would... timer or not However imo, the ppl who lose the most in penalty timer are the normal players since as I've mentioned before, all STO pugs are team oriented, so it would take longer to finish with less players. Hence, the ones who left in the pug already suffer time penalty.
Setting watchdog subroutines to monitor each player input/output isn't simple or easy as everyone seems to think. The biggest problem is resource hogging. Monitor 1 individual may not require much but the resources required r massive when it's applied to large group... unless you don't mind having disconnected/slowness/stability problem.
Life was fine b4 penalty timer... at least we didnt have to deal with afkers or quitters or TRIBBLE noobs
Ummmm that was the whole reason we got the penalty, what game are you playing.
Umm the penalty wasn't added for no reason. It was asked for because of the quitters. People would just leave after the first person died without letting people get warmed up and it mostly resulted in a chain reaction of quitters!
They were not happy days.
Now we got afkers due to timer.
I prefer the old pug. I rather choose quitters over afkers. At least we have the option to leave and join another pug.
yes we do matrix, but doing your suggestion we will have BOTH quitters and afkers at the same time & in the same pugs, and that would just ruin the pug queues altogether.
We have a punishment in place for the quitters now that is at least some deterent to bad behavior.....now we just need a working solution to the afk problem also. And i should also say that those solutions should not punish the innocent players just out to have a fun evening before bedtime.
Afkers have always been in this game they did not magically appear becasue the timer.
yes, there were afkers... and we had the option to leave them b4 timer. Now we don't. Therefore, I prefer the no timer and deal with quitters than dealing with afkers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaujnSmgrHk
How many people are needed to add to friends list so you can play whatever mission you want when you want without having to wait who knows how long to do said mission?
Someone would have to add a great many to be able to have good chances to always have enough people online to play the missions with but even then their are things that could stop that such as timer cooldown for missions they could have or no one wants to do those mission because they want to do something else or any other number of things.
No the only way to be able to play what you want when you want is to pug. The pug experience needs to be improved by either making leeching not provide rewards for said leechers or let people leave without penalty so if someone leeches people can leave and the leecher will be in a mission with no one and the leecher gets the message that people wont deal with leeching.
"Whoa,,,three cruisers? Forget this. I'm going hooo-oooome. "
"An Engineer? No one plays those anymore noob. I'm ...outta here (and going home)"
"I'll start the other side instead of mopping up nanite spheres left over from the first one. Don't like it? I'm ...... goin home."
It will provide consequence free drama queening , and we will be seeing the queens a lot if they can jump into the next stf after whatever they do in the previous one.
Enduting that would be fine if the AFKers would actually be affected, but they won't. The fact they don't care how they look, what it says about their fleet or how it reflects on them personally will not be changed just because it takes five minutes for the team membership to settle down at the start of the match.
Whatever change to address AFKers is made needs to IMPACT THE AFKERS.
Vote to Kick is open to abuse
So what about, for lack of a better term, a "Lazy Sod Button" ?
How it works:
Mission starts and Player 1 goes AFK.
Player 2 presses the LSB and it starts a countdown clock.
If Player 3 presses thier LSB then the countdown runs faster, same for Player's 4 and 5.
If the clock reaches zero then the mission fails and everyone goes home.
Yes, it wastes a bit of genuine players time but the point is to stop AFK'ers leeching off other people. If they gain nothing from going AFK then there is no point in them doing it.
Now, if any player who has pressed thier LSB moves or uses an ability etc, then it cancels thier part in the "self-destruct" slowing the clock down.
In theory this could be abused by griefers starting a mission and then hitting the LSB, but if the initial timer is long enough then the other 4 players have a choice to either try and finish the mission in the time available or hit thier own LSB's and hasten the end.
If all mission rewards are moved to only be given at the end, then it stops people doing optionals and nuking the missions. The only thing it wouldn't prevent is where teams fail optionals and decide to pull the plug on the mission, but I don't see that being a huge problem.
Person 1: There are bad people in pugs, I want a way to not have to deal with them like leaving without a penalty or a vote kick or an AFK timer from cyptic based off of damage dealt/abilities activated.
Person 2: You have a way to no deal with bad people in pugs: join a fleet, make friends, use channels. All your ideas are unnecessary and open to abuse.
What I don't understand, and never see anyone address, is why Person 2 cares if it's open to abuse, or unnecessary.
Person 2 obviously doesn't pug. Person 2 has fleetmates, friends, etc that they run with.
If a system were implemented by Cryptic to address these issues, even an imperfect one, and it was abused, it still wouldn't affect Person 2. Obviously their friends/fleeties wouldn't abuse it with them.
So the only people who would suffer the abuse are the people who currently pug, and those are the very people who are asking for some system to be put in place. Obviously, they're ok with the potential for abuse and feel the tradeoff would be worth it.
So to all the Person 2s out there, please explain why it matters to you, or in what way it affects your gameplay or experience in STO if people who are forced to pug get a system to deal with leechers and afkers that has the potential for abuse.
::WARNING:: This game is not intended for use as a source of self-esteem.