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Is this perhaps the future of STO's PVP (s.9-10) ?

aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvP Gameplay
I might have missed a discussion on this , but recently DStahl made some comments on godisageek.com podcast (TIME INDEX 0:22.00) , where he referenced ongoing discussions with the Neverwinter team in regards to creating (perhaps) a STO endgame mission that combines elements of an STF and PVP , as seen in the upcoming Gauntlgrym NW trailer .
(see the trailer before posting your response)

As for me , I'm torn on this subject .
I loves my STF's and in a way I see this as a diluting of that team based game play .
I expect that there are PVP players who will feel just as I do but in reverse ... , as they will see the PVE part as a "chore" they must do to get to their preferred part of the pew pew .

I am also concerned that some STF-ers won't be too enthused to get to the "final stage" where there's a good chance that they will get roflstomped by experienced PVP players ... , especially if this takes place in space , where PVP is much more broken (IMHO) then on ground .

Yet all in all this is progress (sorta) , and it does include territory control (sorta) .

Thoughts ? :)
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • edited June 2013
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  • burstorionburstorion Member Posts: 1,750 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Intresting idea but with the state pvp is in now, and the unceasing (but admittedly slow) power creep; not to mention the fact it'll make a kerrat spawn cheesefest look like a minor problem..


    ..No, I can't see myself playing such a mode
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,376 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I want a horse for STO...

    then we can do a british cavalary charge
    zx2t8tuj4i10.png
    Thank you for the Typhoon!
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    A few preliminary thoughts on how this could be fun and good for the game.

    1) This should widen the scope of viable builds for PvP and PvE purposes.

    Contrary to many PvP'ers claims, PvE builds in STO exist. Some powers are great for achieving PvE tasks, while being next to useless in PvP, and the other way around. If the mix of PvEvP in phases rewards more diverse builds this will be good. Switching builds between matches is not fun. And i hate gimping myself in one respect in order to achieve the other.

    2) More viable Team compositions

    Despite Cryptics insistence to release DPS fest content. This could help to bring back more varied team compositions into pvp. 3xsci plus 2xtac is the pretty much standard, 5xsci might be viable as well. If we reward engs or teams that bring all three classes, have dedicatd tanks, healers, debuffers, etc. in the PvE section this could lead to more varied PvP team setups. Wanna go all pro-premade fine, no bonus achievable for bringing all three classes. Engies desperately need something like this atm.

    3) Balance pass
    Before anything remotely like this goes live, we need a balance pass worthy of a seasonal update. THere are so many borken powers, whacky numbers, and OP p2w items its not even funny. Similarly acquisition of good gear (especially special doffs) needs to be more straght forward and less dependent on lucky draws out lucky boxes, at insane prices. People will not play this with alts, or not have fun if they constantly get beaten by some silly P2W garbage. Reward team work and strategy, not purchase power.

    4) While PvP lacks a dungeon, and STO PvE needs some new STFs, this dungeon will not fix PvP for cryptic. Private Matches, new maps, working spawn points etc etc are still on the map. If these come along the dungeon, it can help to make pvp a bigger part of STO endgame. But if after a succesful raid on the dungeon all i have to try out my new shiney gear is the same broken kerrat, and the same unbalanced cheese fest of lolspace roflstomping that we have now, the effects will be very short lived.

    5) faction gameplay
    should be an important element of this.

    Given Cryptic's track record on:
    power creep,
    dysfunctional quality control,
    sheer ineptitude at releasing things like functional spawn points,
    inability to incorporate and rewards non-dps elements into PvE,
    white washing of factional differences,
    ignorance of class imbalances,
    lack of comprehension regarding coordinated pvp gameplay,
    troll like pleasure of, despite overwhelming feedback to the contrary, repeatedly releasing items with devastating effects on PvP that have Zero impact on PvE,
    abysimal track record of pvp related promises

    i have little hope that this will be anything to look forward to....its going to be all ground anyway

  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    thay8472 wrote: »
    I want a horse for STO...

    then we can do a british cavalary charge

    Pfft, the cool kids have elephants :P Ride Nelly, RIDE LIKE THE WIND!

    I'd take ANY new content at this point.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    More fantasy from the out-of-touch guy.

    Ya think he knows PvP is unbalanced and broken ? Then force it on his majority audience who don't want PvP at all...

    "I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • magniacapramagniacapra Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Given that I've been force fed creating new toons - would be good to actually get some new pvp content for the first time in the games life time.

    Christ, the whining from the STF crowd for something that may never happen is already ridiculous.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I could see this working if they are actually willing to work at it. I mean a damn near total systems overhaul. There is just SO much, so many different things that need to be fixed, buffed, nerfed, etc now that they would need to go through that.

    Because 99% of people are not going to want to deal with the PvP aspect, and hate having to do it at all, thus only wanting to farm it ala Ker'rat.

    Besides, any AI enemies they have will still most likely favor Tacs no matter what. Again, they'd have to nearly overhaul their systems (including NPC AI), for this whole thing, or else the PvE aspect would be pretty much the exact same thing it is now.

    The Elachi are a decent start in making actual harder NPCs, but even then, all they mostly do is spam all their abilities still. They VM you over and over, subspace jump behind you (sometimes all at once, or very nearly so), and shoot a lot.



    Probably a very important, if not most important thing is that it has to be worth it. One of the biggest problems with PvP (as I've noticed from USSultimatum's 'why don't you PvP' thread) is that people see a lack of either...A. PvP Modes, or B. rewards.

    This would add a new mode indeed. But a lot of folks don't bother with PvP because they can get more dilithium (along with other, better rewards) elsewhere at a more efficient pace.

    I'm not saying this can't work (especially in space, if it's ground...good luck with that), but if they ONLY add this in, without changing anything else already in the game...well, it'll be adding another layer of Jenga bricks on top of an already unstable tower.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    First, I had to watch the trailer on YouTube so I could watch it...was just a slideshow at that link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzIaEijZxo0

    Second, I preferred what Geko talked about than what that video showed.

    The video showed basically a three phase process.
    1) Competitive PvE race for points.
    2) NPC infested PvP domination match.
    3) Two different PvE dungeons, dependent on the outcome of phase 2.

    Even what Geko talked about wasn't perfect by any means, but it went something like this:

    A) Competitive PvE groups - where actions affected the PvP groups.
    B) PvP groups - where actions affected the Competitive PvE groups.

    The Gauntlgrym has a major issue, imho. Consider the following, eh?

    PvE players that loathe PvP.
    PvP players that loathe PvE.
    Players that enjoy both PvE and PvP.
    That's before getting into any mix of Ground/Space.

    Then consider what Geko had briefly mentioned with the same from above, eh?

    The PvE folks that hate PvP can just do the PvE side. The PvP folks that hate PvE can just do the PvP side. Nobody's forced to do anything they don't like, unlike the Gauntlgrym thing.

    I mean, honestly, think about the Gauntlgrym thing for a moment...

    ...think about your average PUG ESTF.
    ...think about your average PUG C&H.
    ...think about your average PUG ESTF again.

    That's what it is, eh?

    Think about Premades/PUGmades vs. PUGs...

    ...and yeah, I don't see it working for STO - Hell, I don't see it working in Neverwinter.
  • mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    OMG Yes! .
    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • wazzagiowwazzagiow Member Posts: 769 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I can see an idea like this being really good for end game 1 day. sadly I think we in star trek are a long way off this :(

    i'd rather see 3 full factions and 3 way pvp, with territory control after a balance pass. before the devs attempted such a grand venture. but it dose seem like a cool concept. that can encourage people to mix pve and pvp together which would be a good for end game health.
  • edited June 2013
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  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'm not really a fan of item based games so giving me an item-rush as a prequel to PVP with a reward consisting of more item-rush, doesnt really do it for me. I could see STO doing it though.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    sophlogimo wrote: »
    You still leave the mission with a feeling of (although more limited) success.

    Which is something that bothers me about PvP in STO as is...everybody's a weiner! I mean, er, everybody's a winner!

    You can, technically, lose in PvE. You can't lose in PvP. Tada, afkers - suicide commandos - etc, etc, etc - all those wonderful things that plague PvP.

    It's like pee wee sports. "Hey guys, we might have come in last in the whole state...but here's our trophys!"

    Society as a whole has gone down the drain because of this mentality. There was too competitive which went to compettiive but have fun...and that was great...but it kept going and going; eventually breeding a generation of losers. It's just going to continue until society collapses...nobody will be left who tries.
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Which is something that bothers me about PvP in STO as is...everybody's a weiner! I mean, er, everybody's a winner!

    You can, technically, lose in PvE. You can't lose in PvP. Tada, afkers - suicide commandos - etc, etc, etc - all those wonderful things that plague PvP.

    It's like pee wee sports. "Hey guys, we might have come in last in the whole state...but here's our trophys!"

    Society as a whole has gone down the drain because of this mentality. There was too competitive which went to compettiive but have fun...and that was great...but it kept going and going; eventually breeding a generation of losers. It's just going to continue until society collapses...nobody will be left who tries.

    Now now STO based rumors of the end of civilization as we know it seem slightly exaggerated :D

    After 3 years of in development of stuff that cryptic really, honestly, swear to god, care about a LOT a LOT new PvEvP modes could be great. With a little bit of common sense and some time for feedback from the pvp community this could help get PvP in the right direction. However, it will not do this from where PvP is at right now. A lot more house cleaning needs to happen on Cryptics side. 3 years of negelct won't fix themselves with space spiders riding into the great vault on ferenginar.
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