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I dont understand Romulan Battle Cloak

pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvP Gameplay
I have played with a KDF Bop for years, and have played against battle cloaking bops for just as long. I understand that if I cloak while someone has me targetted, I drop my shields and die, or if someone hits me while I am cloaked, my cloak will fall off. Any KDF that has tried to cloak away from me gets pretty much insta popped. There is definately a bad time to cloak.


These Romulan ships dont seem to do this. I havent used one myself, but everytime I see one cloak 2 km away while I am shooting at it, they simply disappear, I cant target them, cant break the cloak, and certainly dont pop them like I expect to pop any ship that turns its shileds off in front of my CRF. - Romulans seem to be able to cloak whenever they want, with no penalty.


What am I missing?
Post edited by pulserazor on

Comments

  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There's still the 3s delay that they can be targeted after they hit cloak. They'll still get hit by any torps/weapons fire that was underway at the moment the cloak interacts (or afterward, depending on how the torps take to get there).

    Getting hit by normal weapons fire/torps won't break a battle cloak. That's no different for the RBC/REBC than for the KBC/KEBC.

    Same thing takes place whether I'm in a Fleet T'varo on my Reman Sci or in a Hegh'ta on my KDF Sci...

    The Romulan Cloaks do have a slightly higher base Stealth Value than the Klingon Cloaks, but the Romulan Cloaks can lose up to 400 Stealth Value depending on how much Singularity Charge they have.

    There's also going to be the issue of Sub/Infil stacking to give much higher Stealth Values than they should, so it could be as simple as that...as far as what you're experiencing with them disappearing compared to KDF folks disappearing. 300+ additional Stealth Value means 6km better Stealth Distance...poof, gone from your screen while the KDF at a similar distance might still be visible.
  • cha0s1428cha0s1428 Member Posts: 416 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I don't know if that is what the OP meant, virus. (If it is then nevermind!)

    If he means what I think he means is the fact that romulans don't seem to die. I was doing some pvping this morning and their was a T'varo running as a torp boat. I would occasionally take him out of cloak with either phaser proc or tric mines, or even just get a shot at him when he fired his torps. Any BoP would just get vaporized usually by BO or HY, but these rommie ships seem to take it in stride. They seem much more resilient than anything else when their shields are down.

    My guess, at least with this T'Varo was he was using torps to keep himself in combat until quantum absorption was up, hit it, and come out swinging. I was getting irritated at first, as my weapons seemed to be healing him rather than hurting him. But, QA is a bit cheesy with EBC, so meh.

    They also have much higher hull than BoPs, so maybe that's a thing to consider as well.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I thought I noticed in testing on tribble that sometimes when I cloaked in combat my foe would lose targeting on me almost immediatly.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The T'varo is definitely a beefier build than the B'rel, no doubt about that.

    Fleet T'varo has a base hull of 29700 (and a shield mod of 0.99).
    Fleet B'rel has a base hull of 24750 (and a shield mod of 0.88).

    If a person is flying a Torp'varo, then they've also likely taken Fortified Hull instead of Enhanced Shield Penetration...giving them +5% Hull.

    For the Fleet T'varo that means...+1485 hull.
    For a Fleet B'rel that means...+1237.5 hull.

    The guy flying the Fleet B'rel though, is probably less likely to take the Fortified Hull though because of not only options there...but the lack of incentive since it doesn't have access to that nifty 2pc set the T'varo can run.

    While the B'rel has the +10% Escort Bonus Defense and the T'varo does not, the guy in the T'varo has much easier access to +Def BOFFs that will stack. So while the B'rel could manage greater Defense, it's more likely that the average T'varo (even without the +10%) will have a higher Defense.

    And yes, the T'varo will have access to Quantum Absorption. Odds are they'll have the Singularity Stabilizer console as well, so they'll be able to run QA more often. Heck, they may even sport a [SingA][SingC] Core so that they build Singularity Charge faster and the CDs on Singularity Abilities are shorter. Add in some PWO DOFFs that build Singularity Charge (since the 2pc reduces Torp CD anyway)...and yep, you're looking at that much more QA.

    Personally I prefer the Singularity Jump for the Acc Debuff, targetable clearing, and just plain ol' positioning.

    So yeah, from that angle there would be an issue as well... can't do the Sci BoP w/ 4x Sci BOFFs... but you can make a mean Torp'varo.

    Course, if you see one drop a Mega Torp - I recommend blowing up the torp as soon as possible, lol...pretty good odds that they'll die from the splash when it pops. Speaking of which, if you want to troll somebody on your team...shoot at it while its within the splash range, they'll get hit by the splash even though you popped it. Evil torp...evil...lol...torp. :)
  • magniacapramagniacapra Member Posts: 544 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Basically, Romulans are hilariously OP, and that's before a certain broken universal console.
  • thisslerthissler Member Posts: 2,055 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    pulserazor wrote: »
    I have played with a KDF Bop for years, and have played against battle cloaking bops for just as long. I understand that if I cloak while someone has me targetted, I drop my shields and die, or if someone hits me while I am cloaked, my cloak will fall off. Any KDF that has tried to cloak away from me gets pretty much insta popped. There is definately a bad time to cloak.


    These Romulan ships dont seem to do this. I havent used one myself, but everytime I see one cloak 2 km away while I am shooting at it, they simply disappear, I cant target them, cant break the cloak, and certainly dont pop them like I expect to pop any ship that turns its shileds off in front of my CRF. - Romulans seem to be able to cloak whenever they want, with no penalty.


    What am I missing?

    I just happened to have this clip of a BOP taking fire while cloaked lying about.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT6NO_NWnzY&feature=youtu.be

    And truth be told, cloaking in front of your CRF is likely a pretty safe proposition. Anyone's CRF even.

    Anyway, cheers and happy flying and all that!

    EDIT: And as far as I know the names are pure coincidence. Honest.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Hahah, nice one. :P
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  • this1isavailablethis1isavailable Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    There is no magic, cloak gives +50% defense at the time you press the icon.
    Yes it is too good for ships that aldrealy have top tier stats and bo layouts.
  • eisenw0lfeisenw0lf Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    I thought I noticed in testing on tribble that sometimes when I cloaked in combat my foe would lose targeting on me almost immediatly.

    This. I had a dogfight the other day, my Mogai against a Dhelan, and whenever the Dhelan activated its battlecloak my weapons immediatly lost target despite the fact that I could still see the Dhelan for a few seconds more.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited June 2013
    I fly the T'varo now at 50 and agree that it is slightly too good at defense when geared / skilled appropriately. I am for a defense nerf if they fix the following:

    1. torpedoes / weapons fire continuing to hit you after you have cloaked and moved away
    2. transphasic / torpedo damage increased or shared cooldowns removed from torpedoes

    In essence less defense => fix cloak bugs and/or more dps.
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  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Could it be the Molecular Phase Inversion Field + Battle Cloak duo?

    "The D'ridthau Warbird Battle Cruiser is equipped with a Romulan Battle Cloaking Device. This Cloaking device can be used in combat, but your weapon systems and shields are disabled while it is active.

    This ship comes equipped with a universal Molecular Phase Inverter console. The Molecular Phase Inverter can be activated to shift your ship out of phase for a limited time, drastically increasing its Defense and Damage Resistance and allowing it to pass through other ships. In addition, the ship's turn rate and speed is increased during while this console is active. The ship's Cloaking Device can still be utilized while the Molecular Phase Inverter is active. This console can be used on any Romulan Warbird."

    When I activated this just before cloak it was pretty potent virtually no damage going to cloak and I was hit directly by torp spread.
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited June 2013
    AKA get out of jail card.
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  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    devorasx wrote: »
    AKA get out of jail card.

    Yip when this happened to me the first time, I thought "yo, this on every ship in a premade?!"

    Taking focus? Simple. Phase + Cloak at will. Phase has a 4 min CD I think but that's four uses in an average length match per ship if I am not mistaken. Not sure if it can be used on other ships.

    I am not convinced that these singularity powers on top of all the boff abilities and rep abilities can be remotely balanced. Even a ship dying causes problems.

    I am cringing to think that they might add some Fedside and KDF and then what?
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited June 2013
    Yip when this happened to me the first time, I thought "yo, this on every ship in a premade?!"

    Taking focus? Simple. Phase + Cloak at will. Phase has a 4 min CD I think but that's four uses in an average length match per ship if I am not mistaken. Not sure if it can be used on other ships.

    I am not convinced that these singularity powers on top of all the boff abilities and rep abilities can be remotely balanced. Even a ship dying causes problems.

    I am cringing to think that they might add some Fedside and KDF and then what?

    The phase thingy can be used by any warbird. The torpedo cant, as its DD only. So yes, even my Bogai can run into a group, laugh, cloak, and re-open with a BO.
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  • rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The developers seem to have gone out of their way to give any warbird a workaround to its inherent weakness.

    Meaning, on paper any warbird has a weakness to exploit (slow, squishy hull, lack of heal slotting, so forth). When min maxers got ahold of them, they found multiple ways to not only plug every weakness, but also enhance every strength.

    Now in every PvP match vs romulans I feel like Kirk in Star Trek VI. =/ Except for in my case, that homing torpedo would just tickle it =/


    I find it patently absurd that in my freeship HaFeh, I am already out damaging my main toon whenever i have singularity overcharge up with just mk xi blue gear i got off the exchange, and am able to basically chain cloaks to the point I could see how someone could never die.

    Feels like a ship custom made to make the game easy mode.
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  • wazzagiowwazzagiow Member Posts: 769 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    to me the b'rel needs beefing up badly. the rommie bop just exposes this more and more. or they should just make a k'vort bop, agile bit bigger and a beefier hull than the b'rel??
  • pulserazorpulserazor Member Posts: 590 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Thank you for your replies, and Thissler. Your youtube videos got me started bopping.

    I have to ask, how much impact does the captain skill for cloaking have, as I dont tend to put points there, mostly because the tooltip and wiki dont seem to give me any numbers to work with. I brawl a bit more then most bops, relying on 2piece aegis and KHG Maco to evade hits, rsp, and AMS/ICC to escape. Perhaps I need to respec 6 or more points in stealth?
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    My Sci Reman Fleet T'Varo Torp boat runs with a base 94% defense bonus with reman passives and BO passives + traits + skills

    That's before using anything like EptE or evasives or anything else. As I become more used to flying it vs the old B'rel - I almost never die in PvP.

    In fact the last 5 matchs I died 3 times - all from the mega torp that I fired!!!

    Virusdancer mentioned this earlier - it is a nasty thing - great for PvE but you can get caught by it exploding inside 2.5km if someone targets it - or it hits a mine - and BOOM 50k dmg with no shields.
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