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EPtA fix is on tribble

majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvP Gameplay
We will be bringing the Tribble server down for maintenance to apply a new update.
ST.30.20130513a.34

General:
  • Mail can now be deleted.
  • Resolved an issue with Emergency Power to Auxiliary outperforming it?s intended design.
  • The final wave of ?The Defense of New Romulus? has been tuned to be more achievable.
  • The B?rel should no longer request that the player purchase the Exeter in order to commit changes in the tailor.
  • Resolved an issue that prevented players from receiving their transwarp to the Tau Dewa sector block upon earning T1 in the New Romulan Reputation.
  • Tuned down the difficulty of the elite Crystalline Entity encounter.
  • Server Stability Updates.

And a very nice lineup of fixes indeed. Thanks Cryptic.
--->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Post edited by majortiraomega on
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Comments

  • aldo1rainealdo1raine Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    And a very nice lineup of fixes indeed. Thanks Cryptic.

    Deleting mail is OP!!!!!!! It may be against the terms of service.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nerf Klinks, Buff Rommies
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    edit: Never mind... /cough

    Will be interesting to see if there were any other changes to EPtA (ie, is it still +50/+1%).

    edit:

    Stealth Detection Rating - 85.43 @ 64/30 Aux
    +EPtA1 - 116.02 @ 87/30 Aux

    Stealth Detection Rating is only reflecting the boost from Aux.

    Where it states the bonus to StealthSight, it instead says the following:

    [UNTRANSLATED: Powerdef.Modautodesc.Emergency_Power_Auxiliary_1_R1.-129625469]

    Well...er...hrmmm...
  • devian666devian666 Member Posts: 473
    edited June 2013
    aldo1raine wrote: »
    Deleting mail is OP!!!!!!! It may be against the terms of service.

    I was decloaked by someone deleting mail. Clearly it's not my fault for flying badly :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    too bad, i was hoping theyd adjust the epta as well rather then straight "fixing" it.

    it wont be enough with all the "perfect" cloaks out there.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    too bad, i was hoping theyd adjust the epta as well rather then straight nerf it.

    it wont be enough with all the "perfect" cloaks out there.

    How are they nerfing it? They are just returning it to what it was before. And there are some snooper builds that you can spec into.

    Escorts should not be detecting cloaked ships - A sci ship fully spec'd to detect - sure.
  • devian666devian666 Member Posts: 473
    edited June 2013
    I understand it's back to what it should be. It's not a nerf.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    It's currently broken on Tribble. It's not providing the +StealthSight buff at all that one can see (no pun intended)...but it's obviously broken, as evidenced by the untranslated bit in the tooltip.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    How are they nerfing it? They are just returning it to what it was before. And there are some snooper builds that you can spec into.

    Escorts should not be detecting cloaked ships - A sci ship fully spec'd to detect - sure.

    nerf was probably the wrong word choice for myself.

    1% isnt enough. 3-5% per tier would be perfect.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    nerf was probably the wrong word choice for myself.

    1% isnt enough. 3-5% per tier would be perfect.

    But that's saying it should provide...

    EPtA1...3-5km
    EPtA2...6-10km
    EPtA3...9-15km

    ...not taking into account the small amount that would be added from the +Aux.

    Sure, it's extremely unlikely anybody's going to run EPtA3 and very unlikely anybody's going to run EPtA2; but look at what it would be giving somebody using EPtA1:

    @3km...+200 Starship Sensors
    @5km...+333 Starship Sensors

    As is, with the +50 StealthSight/+1% StealthSight...it's providing a 30s buff of +66.67/+67 Starship Sensors.

    That's more than two Mk XII Embassy Sensor Probes from an Ensign ranked ability.

    Were it @5km, that would be more than ten Mk XII Embassy Sensor Probes from an Ensign ranked ability.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Indeed, on the one hand I'm glad this is fixed for my Romulans, on the other hand this is going to make it stupid as **** for my non-cloaked ships.

    Good thing I've been testing anti-cloak, snooping ****.

    Still, no one should have to spend 10 USD to ****ing detect Romulans!

    Unless EPTA provides a substantial boost to detection over what exists now, you're going to need that commander ship uni console and sensor scan to even have a chance to detect a fully-specced Romulan ship.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Indeed, on the one hand I'm glad this is fixed for my Romulans, on the other hand this is going to make it stupid as **** for my non-cloaked ships.

    Good thing I've been testing anti-cloak, snooping ****.

    Still, no one should have to spend 10 USD to ****ing detect Romulans!

    Unless EPTA provides a substantial boost to detection over what exists now, you're going to need that commander ship uni console and sensor scan to even have a chance to detect a fully-specced Romulan ship.

    TB3 has 17 sec duration. Follow it w/a TB1 or 2 and basically they can't cloak for 30 seconds even if they're using APO so long as you're an a ship built to keep up w/them.

    Pre-emptively it's back to old tricks like laying mines/cycling tbrs/cycling ewp, pets w/cloak debuffs etc. Or just let them try and alpha and counter like I mentioned above.

    Edit: Forgot to mention TB's cooldown starts on activation, not when it ends for w/e reason. This is why it's easy to chain.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    p2wsucks wrote: »
    TB3 has 17 sec duration. Follow it w/a TB1 or 2 and basically they can't cloak for 30 seconds even if they're using APO so long as you're an a ship built to keep up w/them.

    Pre-emptively it's back to old tricks like laying mines/cycling tbrs/cycling ewp, pets w/cloak debuffs etc. Or just let them try and alpha and counter like I mentioned above.

    Edit: Forgot to mention TB's cooldown starts on activation, not when it ends for w/e reason. This is why it's easy to chain.

    Agreed, that's one of the things I was considering, going back to the old school area denial.

    I guess it's time to spam the **** out of stuff. ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Indeed, on the one hand I'm glad this is fixed for my Romulans, on the other hand this is going to make it stupid as **** for my non-cloaked ships.

    Good thing I've been testing anti-cloak, snooping ****.

    Still, no one should have to spend 10 USD to ****ing detect Romulans!

    Unless EPTA provides a substantial boost to detection over what exists now, you're going to need that commander ship uni console and sensor scan to even have a chance to detect a fully-specced Romulan ship.

    Before all this LoR stuff - before the Romulan Rep - I could spec my B'rel Retrofit to be undetectable unless I was sitting ontop of a ship and they did a sensor scan.

    Sometimes when In Ker'rat and there was a Fed there with no de-cloaking abilities - I would just constantly bump there ship and push their ship around - lots of fun - then I would de-cloak on top of them and let them blow me up to get the daily for dying- and make them feel better for me bumping them and they could do nothing about it.

    So what is this you are saying about Romulans?
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Agreed, that's one of the things I was considering, going back to the old school area denial.

    I guess it's time to spam the **** out of stuff. ;)

    Except you can do w/a battle cloak now lolz. Just got rank 40 rom sci ship :D
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Unless EPTA provides a substantial boost to detection over what exists now, you're going to need that commander ship uni console and sensor scan to even have a chance to detect a fully-specced Romulan ship.

    Sub/Infiltrator is stacking +Stealth again. Shouldn't be.

    You could have Sub/Infil on the Captain and 5x Sub/Infil BOFFs giving you +900 Starship Stealth or more when you should only be getting +150 or so....
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    Sub/Infiltrator is stacking +Stealth again. Shouldn't be.

    You could have Sub/Infil on the Captain and 5x Sub/Infil BOFFs giving you +900 Stealth or more when you should only be getting +150 or so....

    But isn't that to counter the fact that 5 pips would wipe out your cloak? Without min 400 you would have 0 stealth.

    Now this would only effect 2 cases as Pip goes down after cloaking - but cloaking at full pip they would be able to follow you.

    Also In the T'Varo you can be running 5 pips quite a lot with the EBC - so how will that work if it does not stack?
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Once again, it shows Cryptic is unable to fix something without breaking it. :rolleyes: Thankfully, it's still on Tribble, not Holodeck. Since this fix isn't working, it likely means it won't be rolled out to the Holodeck anytime soon until they can actually fix it.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    But isn't that to counter the fact that 5 pips would wipe out your cloak? Without min 400 you would have 0 stealth.

    Now this would only effect 2 cases as Pip goes down after cloaking - but cloaking at full pip they would be able to follow you.

    Also In the T'Varo you can be running 5 pips quite a lot with the EBC - so how will that work if it does not stack?

    5 pips would wipe out 400 of the 450 Stealth the BOFFs/Captain Provide (900 Starship Stealth providing 450 Stealth)...

    I build Singularity Charge in no time on my T'varo. There's the [SingA][SingC] mods on the Singularity Core which give me +20% Singularity Charge and -10% CD on Singularity Power. There's the Singularity Specialist Trait (with it's somewhat useless description). There's also the Singularity Stabilizer console which resets the Singularity timer and builds 2 SC/s for 15s. I'm always popping Singularity Jump when I get the chance to bleed charge.

    Currently he has 5309.2 Stealth. If it weren't stacking, it would be 5159.2...which at 5 pips would drop to 4759.2. Somebody with min Aux in a non-Sci without any Sensors/skill or gear/etc would have 5003 Perception and be able to see me 4.88km. I'd still have +135% Bonus Defense (not including any abilities, which allow me to boost it over +200% temporarily). That's with just Infiltrator on the Captain and 2x Sub (I didn't have much luck with the reroll game to get better BOFFs...I never got Superior Infil/Op...just Superior TRIBBLE so I stopped).
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Oh ****, so they removed the stealthsight bonus on Tribble? Or at least it's broken.

    :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    Once again, it shows Cryptic is unable to fix something without breaking it. :rolleyes: Thankfully, it's still on Tribble, not Holodeck. Since this fix isn't working, it likely means it won't be rolled out to the Holodeck anytime soon until they can actually fix it.

    Well, hopefully it gets addressed and there's some answer about the Stealth stacking (don't want it to swing the other way either)...have to figure there's going to be a few things done in the next couple of days to have stuff dropped out Thursday for a Holo patch.
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    Well, hopefully it gets addressed and there's some answer about the Stealth stacking (don't want it to swing the other way either)...have to figure there's going to be a few things done in the next couple of days to have stuff dropped out Thursday for a Holo patch.

    I think they left rommie doffs stackable because a lot of KDF spend big time FC + Dilithium buying several of the embassy doffs.

    I only got 1 because of the high cost - like 100k marks and 5 billion dilth - think it would have pissed a lot of people off who bought 2/3/4 of them.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The QQ about oh no now the perfect cloaks will get us is bs. lol

    EPTA was fine before as far as detection went... the issue was it only lasted for 5s

    Now it will last for 30s as intended.

    I really don't see the issue. I don't think EPTA was ever intended to be the perfect anti cloak skill.

    If you honestly want to combat a cloaking team you now want to have a sci anti cloak. EPTA + Sensor Scan + Gravity well / CPB / TBR (to show you where they are) / Mines / Tractor beam / VM... I can go on cause that isn't the half of them.

    For Cruisers there is EWP and yes reversing it into someones face is good anti cloak. They can also run EPTA with no real issue.

    For escorts its simple... wait for the ambush, tac team evasive omega what ever else you need and start a dog fight with a ship that either has less hull and shield then you or much less turn. Either way you only loose that fight if your outnumbered of just plan bad. ;)

    The concerns over cloak are honestly pretty silly.

    How ever as a guy that mainly plays cloaking ships... if you feel EPTA is terrible by all means don't run it I won't mind.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So I did some testing of the Tribble EPTA changes.

    With Sensors 9, Com uni console, Sensor Scan, EPTA 1.

    I can detect a ship with max stealth at a shade under 11km.

    Going to test later with a different setup as a test subject.

    But so far, I'm happy with the changes. It seems like I won't have to gimp my setup's healing potential or survivability to detect cloaked ships.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think they left rommie doffs stackable because a lot of KDF spend big time FC + Dilithium buying several of the embassy doffs.

    I only got 1 because of the high cost - like 100k marks and 5 billion dilth - think it would have pissed a lot of people off who bought 2/3/4 of them.

    It came up in the March 8th Tribble Notes thread...
    havam wrote: »
    I m curious why was there a need for defense values to be buffed across the board?
    Whenever we diminish the value of something players have worked hard to earn, we try to compensate whenever possible. In this case, we chose to include a Defense bonus because it is thematically appropriate to the concept of being an elusive target in Space combat.

    The changes in this patch both reduce the Stealth values attached to the Subterfuge Trait, and eliminate the stacking of those bonuses. We felt that a small Defense bonus would help mitigate those changes.

    What is your specific concern over the Defense bonus? Do you feel that the bonus is too large?
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    So I did some testing of the Tribble EPTA changes.

    With Sensors 9, Com uni console, Sensor Scan, EPTA 1.

    I can detect a ship with max stealth at a shade under 11km.

    Going to test later with a different setup as a test subject.

    But so far, I'm happy with the changes. It seems like I won't have to gimp my setup's healing potential or survivability to detect cloaked ships.

    This is essentially what I said in my other post/thread - Sci should be the only class any good at detecting cloaked ships - and they should be spec'd for it.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, hopefully it gets addressed and there's some answer about the Stealth stacking (don't want it to swing the other way either)...have to figure there's going to be a few things done in the next couple of days to have stuff dropped out Thursday for a Holo patch.

    At this point, pushing it for Thursday may be too much to ask. Some others confirmed the mail now works, so the items that are confirmed to work on Tribble can be rolled out by Thursday but the list will likely be quite short. These changes are introduced on Tribble precisely to beta test before general release.

    I am feeling quite mixed about these swings. I have only two toons, one is a long-time Fed and the other is the newly created Rom, with the Fed toon acting as his mentor / sponsor and pretty much funded all the Rom's equipment and progress with EC, Dil and Zen. A lot of time and investment have been put into this Rom to make him respectable and formidable - with 5 boff all with Superior Operative and Subterfuge traits. The Fleet Dhelan has +900 Stealth as a result, which is meaningless under the current EPtA. Supposedly, if changed, my ship should have a near perfect cloak as opposed to being chased by some Escorts running EPtA. Though, the PvP testing wasn't bad as the Escorts had hard time actually landing his shots due to the high defensive under cloak and my side ended up winning with no casualties. It was FvF queue. On other hand, from experience, detecting cloak was extremely difficult, much harder than some of the Klink players here tried to mislead others who didn't know through some half truths and half lies statements. The fact is if someone spec in a Nebula entirely set for cloak detection, that Nebula just becomes a useless big fat target with little heal or offensive capabilities. On its own, it will not survive for long. Against a Klink fleet who knows what they are doing, it will pretty much be instantly targeted and annihilated. The specialization that was required was too extreme that such ship isn't capable of doing anything else. Who would spend two slots to put in Sensor Probes? Seriously, it aint' happening. The opportunity cost on either damage or heal/resistance would be tremendous. Even then, it will only catch cloakers with low Aux and low Stealth and be unable to detect well spec cloakers prior to them hitting 2-4 km range, aka. point blank range.

    On the balance, I prefer to see a skill that can break cloak more easily, even it puts my Dhlean at risk. I am accustomed to fighting and surviving without a cloak, the cloak is just a bonus to set up the initial attack, and to get away if necessary. I am not dependent on one-shot Alpha (well, I am philosophically opposed to it) and can fight in prolonged battle holding my own. As it stands, some people just abuse cloak and exploit the unintended one-shot alpha which Cryptic never addressed and in turn, scared a lot of people away from pvp at their own detriment. These people like to congratulate themselves as "skilled" , I think not. They too are using a known exploit. If they are so skilled, they can easily adapt to different styles as opposed to being a one trick pony, hence all the huge panic when EPtA was broken - because they don't know what to do, some are even silly enough to threaten with strike and boycotts, like really? :eek:

    If Subterfuge stacks while the EPtA becomes broken, it means a lot of ships will fly around with near perfect cloaks. What the Klinks didn't realize is that unlike before, they too will have a hard time finding their targets as cloaks become widely accessible and they will have even less abilities to break those cloaks. Aceton Assimilators will be ambushed by Fed T'Varo with torps, making them near useless and total waste. PvP fights can become incredibly long, causing people to drop out, tired of waiting and cloaking.

    Hopefully, these bugs can be properly addressed with the right balance but I won't be holding my breath.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    So I did some testing of the Tribble EPTA changes.

    With Sensors 9, Com uni console, Sensor Scan, EPTA 1.

    I can detect a ship with max stealth at a shade under 11km.

    Going to test later with a different setup as a test subject.

    But so far, I'm happy with the changes. It seems like I won't have to gimp my setup's healing potential or survivability to detect cloaked ships.

    So it's boosting Perception without boosting Stealth Detection Rating?

    Do you happen to know what Stealth Value the ship had?
    What your Stealth Detection Rating was? What you Aux was? Under skills in the ship portrait that it said your Starships Sensors was?

    Meh, one of these days I'll get the girlfriend to play so I can test things with a friend...lol. She's watching YouTube or I'd log on her account she never uses on her machine.

    edit: BTW, "Com uni console"...?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    This is essentially what I said in my other post/thread - Sci should be the only class any good at detecting cloaked ships - and they should be spec'd for it.

    A little more of a buff from Aux for Sci Vessels over non-Sci Vessels wouldn't hurt, imo.

    non-Sci: 0.4 Stealth Detection Rating/0.2 Perception-StealthSight per Aux
    Sci: 1.2 Stealth Detection Rating/0.6 Perception-StealthSight per Aux

    @130 Aux...
    non-Sci: 26 Perception
    Sci: 78 Perception

    A difference of 52 StealthSight, meaning the Sci can only see just over 1km better than the non-Sci...
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    So I did some testing of the Tribble EPTA changes.

    With Sensors 9, Com uni console, Sensor Scan, EPTA 1.

    I can detect a ship with max stealth at a shade under 11km.

    Going to test later with a different setup as a test subject.

    But so far, I'm happy with the changes. It seems like I won't have to gimp my setup's healing potential or survivability to detect cloaked ships.

    No offense, I find what you said hard to believe. Your statements are vague. First of all, EPTA is currently broken on Tribble, meaning it has no effect at all. Sensors 9 and Sensor Scan - funny I spend lots of time in Kerrat prior to LoR, it will only detect ships with poor stealth, aka. those who have low aux and/or no spec into Stealth skill. Those who fly like Minimax, never, not even once.

    What's a "max stealth", how do you define that?

    If what you say is true, which I remain doubtful and you can detect ships with "max stealth" as far as 11km out so easily, I guarantee you truck loads of angry Klingons will continue their strikes and demanding fix. Don't get me wrong, I sincerely hope you are right. However, with the EPtA shown to have no effect on Tribble, I think you are hitting on a placebo, nothing else.
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    snip..

    BoPs don't do well dogfighting - they are like flying tinfoil without the cloak.

    over the last year there has been a steady increase in Fedscort - hull and firepower

    Without the ability to remain undetected - that entire class of ships is useless.

    4 boff stations - 20's K hull - 4/2 weapons - 0.8 shield mods

    How is this class to dogfight?
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