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Whats The Point In A Cloak Now

retrosragesretrosrages Member Posts: 235 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvP Gameplay
everything in pvp now seems to drop you out of your cloak and now its even worse with the epta bug they can see you cloaked 10km away, get it fixed Cryptic or bloody pass this game to a company that knows what they are doing.
There should be ONE!!!! special skill that can drop a cloaked ships cloak not bloody 4 or 5, sort this TRIBBLE out cos im sick to death of getting shafted by this company over and over, rant over :eek::mad::):D
Post edited by retrosrages on
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  • illcadiaillcadia Member Posts: 1,415 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Yes, yes, let's make it so cloaks are an unbreakable shield of invincibility, and only people running that one- and let's make it a C-store console priced at a million bucks- skill can bypass it, and if they don't have it, then you're completely invincible.

    Right?

    No, TRIBBLE that- and TRIBBLE you. Yes, EPtAux is bugged. But they're fixing it. Cloaks are and always have been fragile- you take damage in cloak, or fly into a plasma cloud or do something stupid and it'll decloak. But make no mistake, that's your fault.
  • lordmanzelotlordmanzelot Member Posts: 468 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    everything in pvp now seems to drop you out of your cloak and now its even worse with the epta bug they can see you cloaked 10km away, get it fixed Cryptic or bloody pass this game to a company that knows what they are doing.
    There should be ONE!!!! special skill that can drop a cloaked ships cloak not bloody 4 or 5, sort this TRIBBLE out cos im sick to death of getting shafted by this company over and over, rant over :eek::mad::):D

    is this a "i quit" thread?
    Subscribed For: 2300+ Days
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    What do you mean, "now?"

    Cloak has always been rather "meh." I have never, ever had a ship cloak on me and even broke a sweat. I've very rarely ever had my cloak actually save me. It occasionally gives me a bit of an alpha strike, but most often the time spent trying to set up the stealth run is better spent just flying in and pumping death into my enemy.

    I haven't bothered with a Romulan yet, and I haven't flown a B'Rel, but standard cloak and battle cloak are less then stellar. If you are just noticing that now... I'm sorry.

    Edit: Unless it's Donatra... Bloody hell she is annoying...
    I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
    kimmym_5664.jpg
    Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    photonic shock wave, grav well, any gas type, epta, and sometime you don't even see the gas till your in it, with a brel your main line of defence is your cloak so yes I want it to work right, there should be ONE SKILL AND ONE ALONE that can decloak a ship not 4 or 5, and illcadia you mad bro?

    HAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    thats so funny.

    what happens then if noone on the other team brings that "one" decloak ability? if the team without it screwed?


    yep. totally fair right there.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
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  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Having multiple ways to disable cloak is fine and good. You can learn to pilot around almost every one of the anti cloak skills. It should be a challenge to sneak around.

    What you really can't do anything about is escorts and especialy the other teams cloaked ships running EPTA and seeing you 40k away. lol

    Honestly until EPTA is fixed just go and level and gear your roms, if by the time you have that done Cryptic hasn't sorted it Rift goes F2P in a week or 2. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    patrickngo wrote: »
    How many BoFFs do you have after you hit L50? I'll bet you've got a lot. More than you can possibly load onto the ship at any given time. How hard is it to have someone standing by in reserve in case you need one of those abilities? Not hard, one swap and now you've got it.

    Hell, you can do it at lower levels too, and if you didn't pull one in the draw, you can always spend the EC and retrain 'em so you HAVE those abilities when you show up to PUG.

    It's called being prepared-and if you refuse to be prepared, log into a PUG match, and nobody's got one? well...them's hte breaks. Bridge Officer abilities are among the EASIER things to change up before, or during a match. It's a hell of a lot tougher to change your (for a BoP very, very low) hull and shield numbers to become viable in stand-and-deliver shot trading, or increase the number of guns you have on the fly, etc. etc.

    Flat being, if you're going to PUG pvp, you should have the flexibility to change a Bridge officer to fill a gap-esp. where you KNOW you're going to be facing at least one, if not more, Cloakers.

    so basically youre telling me to learn to play, learn to adapt, be prepared for everything right?

    shouldnt that also apply to the guy who is cloaking? :P
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
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  • voporakvoporak Member Posts: 5,621 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, if you're a cloaker, It's pretty easy to see and avoid gravity well and not fly straight into gas. You know I hang around Kerrat in my Defiant a lot, so I'm confident I know what I'm talking about.
    I ask nothing but that you remember me.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Most people, well, Americans anyway, use "karma" incorrectly, or at least in an over-simplified kind of way. My wife and I just say "American Karma" to refer to things happening to somebody based on what they did a week ago.

    The B'Rel had a perfect cloak for a while there. Looks like we've got a bit of American Karma coming our way.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    patrickngo wrote: »
    GOOD Bird of prey drivers do-because they have to, but it's a hell of a long walk from swapping out one sci boff for a Fedscort, and working around being seen-and-engaged at 10k while your shields are down and your weapons are offline.

    which is what the EPTA bug does for the opposition. I've already started working up workarounds for losing the ability to move cloaked (because I don't think Cryptic's going to fix that anytime soon) have you started working around gaps in your bridge-officer lineup?

    You see the problem is though, once epta gets fixed well be right back at "even using all the see things powers I can see the cloak until they're less then 3km away" way it was before the romulans came out.

    I could really care less at this point because I fly a nebula that uses both consoles, heat seeking toros (which is own can of worms) and charged partial burst for my main anti cloak duties.
    Yes I use epta, but unless I can decloak them the rest of the can't see them (unless they have epta themselves)

    Sure, I can shoot them while seeing them but if its regular cloak it just decloaks them and puts their shields up. If its battle cloak it won't, but then if they're just gonna sit there after I spotted them that's their fault.

    Introducing so many new cloaking ships for the fed side was a mistake.

    As I said, epta may be working wrong now, but te way it used to work (only adding 1%) was way too little a boost considering how easy it is now for ships to get "perfect" cloaks.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    With Sensors at 9, tachyon detection field console (the com uni that can be slotted in any Fed/Rom ship), sensor scan buff, Senx3 deflector, 2 sensor probes, I could see a fully kitted out Romulan out to 11km or so.

    So even after the nerf I will be able to see people out there. This works best when used with other support though.

    The real key is the console and sensor scan.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • newromulan1newromulan1 Member Posts: 2,229
    edited June 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    With Sensors at 9, tachyon detection field console (the com uni that can be slotted in any Fed/Rom ship), sensor scan buff, Senx3 deflector, 2 sensor probes, I could see a fully kitted out Romulan out to 11km or so.

    So even after the nerf I will be able to see people out there. This works best when used with other support though.

    The real key is the console and sensor scan.

    This is the way it was supposed to work - I also have a Fleet Nebula- does not get much use, but the fact is if you wanted to detect cloak you had to be sci and be well spec'd for it. The same as in the shows.

    Basically this bug has removed any reason to have a new Romulan ship - this should really worry Cryptic.

    I am pissed because I have 5 ships that are definitely useless now - T'Varo, T'Varo Refit, Fleet T'varo, B'rel refit, Fleet B'rel - thats 6000 Zen+ in just those ships

    Cloak is their primary defense - they pay for it with 22k - 27k hulls a low starting shield level and a shield mod starting at 0.8 - they cannot go into a dog fight with powerful escorts

    and they certainly can't take the hits to hull with their shields offline

    So this exploit is completely unfair - oh and that B'rel perfect cloak was only used by a very very few people as you had to buy a bunch of Romualn Boffs that were 80K fleet marks at least + dilithium - perhaps a dozen people did it - vs - every ship in PvP now using this cheat/exploit

    make no doubt about it - IT'S CHEATING - you know it's not supposed to work that way - you know it is broken and you use it - therefore you are cheating.
  • mandoknight89mandoknight89 Member Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    You see the problem is though, once epta gets fixed well be right back at "even using all the see things powers I can see the cloak until they're less then 3km away" way it was before the romulans came out.

    I could really care less at this point because I fly a nebula that uses both consoles, heat seeking toros (which is own can of worms) and charged partial burst for my main anti cloak duties.
    Yes I use epta, but unless I can decloak them the rest of the can't see them (unless they have epta themselves)

    Sure, I can shoot them while seeing them but if its regular cloak it just decloaks them and puts their shields up. If its battle cloak it won't, but then if they're just gonna sit there after I spotted them that's their fault.

    Introducing so many new cloaking ships for the fed side was a mistake.

    As I said, epta may be working wrong now, but te way it used to work (only adding 1%) was way too little a boost considering how easy it is now for ships to get "perfect" cloaks.

    I think the magnitude should be tweaked a bit still, though... down to 10 km assuming no ranks in Sensors or Stealth on the respective side and similar Aux levels, for a Klingon cloak.

    On the one hand, EPtA currently fully counters cloaking, particularly since it can be run continuously. On the other hand, it also effectively locks out EPtW, which got a serious buff due to applying its damage bonus for its full duration. (EPtS still grants a major shield resistance buff, so I wouldn't recommend using an EPtW/A combo over an EPtS/A one.) So, Cruisers and Eng-heavy Science Vessels (which have the space for EPtA as well as abilities to get more utility off of it than just stealth sight) will counter cloaked vessels for now, while Escorts will have to decide whether they want to counter cloaked vessels or keep the EPtS resistance buff up.

    And at the end of the day... I think I'm OK with that. It makes Battle Cloak a tactical choice with serious consequences, not just three seconds of extreme vulnerability followed by an indefinite amount of near invulnerability and five to ten seconds (or so) of a fairly major damage buff. If there's a paranoid Cruiser or Science Vessel flying around scanning for cloaked ships, good for them, it gives them something useful to do while also improving their Sci powers and Aux-based heals by virtue of the EPtA power bonus, but forces them to trade off against EPtW or EPtS. Aux2Batt cruisers break this idea, though, but I think that's more of an issue with the power of the Technician doff than it is with EPtA.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    Yes I use epta, but unless I can decloak them the rest of the can't see them (unless they have epta themselves)

    That part isn't true... Running EPTA on your cloaker will NOT keep you cloaked. It will just reveal everyone else for you. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • xtremenoob1xtremenoob1 Member Posts: 489 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I think the magnitude should be tweaked a bit still, though... down to 10 km assuming no ranks in Sensors or Stealth on the respective side and similar Aux levels, for a Klingon cloak.

    And at the end of the day... I think I'm OK with that. It makes Battle Cloak a tactical choice with serious consequences, not just three seconds of extreme vulnerability followed by an indefinite amount of near invulnerability and five to ten seconds (or so) of a fairly major damage buff. If there's a paranoid Cruiser or Science Vessel flying around scanning for cloaked ships, good for them, it gives them something useful to do while also improving their Sci powers and Aux-based heals by virtue of the EPtA power bonus, but forces them to trade off against EPtW or EPtS. Aux2Batt cruisers break this idea, though, but I think that's more of an issue with the power of the Technician doff than it is with EPtA.

    * Being able to see ships @ 10km should require specing. It's like any other specialty in the game. You may be able to do it okay but if you don't commit and spec it will only be 'Meh.'

    * Issue is being able to see cloaked ships 30km away.

    * The game has changed focus to sci-tact teams. For a number of reason... Sensor Scan having multiple uses. Healing getting out of hand. The new romulan consoles are sick and just stupid. But w/e sells I guess.


    To end, I don't really give two ****s what people do. It's clear PVP doesn't matter to PWE likewise Cryptic so. I'm just going to have fun until the game goes only PVE.


    As far as EPTA tards go... Taunt ... Provoke ... Kiss

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnnVxf_AH8E
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGCzEQuSCc
    -X-/Pandas - Pheo
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited June 2013
    I think the magnitude should be tweaked a bit still, though... down to 10 km assuming no ranks in Sensors or Stealth on the respective side and similar Aux levels, for a Klingon cloak.

    On the one hand, EPtA currently fully counters cloaking, particularly since it can be run continuously. On the other hand, it also effectively locks out EPtW, which got a serious buff due to applying its damage bonus for its full duration. (EPtS still grants a major shield resistance buff, so I wouldn't recommend using an EPtW/A combo over an EPtS/A one.) So, Cruisers and Eng-heavy Science Vessels (which have the space for EPtA as well as abilities to get more utility off of it than just stealth sight) will counter cloaked vessels for now, while Escorts will have to decide whether they want to counter cloaked vessels or keep the EPtS resistance buff up.

    And at the end of the day... I think I'm OK with that. It makes Battle Cloak a tactical choice with serious consequences, not just three seconds of extreme vulnerability followed by an indefinite amount of near invulnerability and five to ten seconds (or so) of a fairly major damage buff. If there's a paranoid Cruiser or Science Vessel flying around scanning for cloaked ships, good for them, it gives them something useful to do while also improving their Sci powers and Aux-based heals by virtue of the EPtA power bonus, but forces them to trade off against EPtW or EPtS. Aux2Batt cruisers break this idea, though, but I think that's more of an issue with the power of the Technician doff than it is with EPtA.

    The cloak already had its fair share of vulnerabilities, when facing competent PvPers. Not to mention that most of the ships that have battlecloaks/enhanced battlecloaks sacrifice something in order to have them. . .it's unfair to just nerf the hell out of the advantage given by the cloak.

    The damage buff is not 'fairly major'. I'd classify it as 'moderate'. It's the equivalent of a green Mk X tac console (15% boost) for the length of time it takes to deliver an alphastrike. It's actually less than the boost you get from activating Attack Pattern Omega 2 and 3. The Attack Pattern Alpha damage boost is what's major (30% damage boost and bonuses to crit chance and severity).
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited June 2013
    patrickngo wrote: »
    Actually, what it does, is make Cloak a matter of going from short periods where you have shields and can fire your weapons vs. long periods where you're unarmed and defenseless except for speed.

    Before, you were very vulnerable in a BoP if you actually decloaked and made your run-making a Decloak Alpha was a matter of careful timing and if it failed (in any way at all) your lifespan wouldn't last the length of the cooldown. NOW, being cloaked is WORSE-because you're largely disarmed, shieldless, and unable to use or deploy science abilities on anything but a B'rel-which is a 25 dollar ship that has a single trick that doesn't work most of the time BEFORE EPTA was broken in this patch.

    Take, for instance, the bone-stock Hegh'ta, the most common Battlecloaker in the game. This ship can't use anything while cloaked, has 3 tac consoles and 6 weapons TOTAL, with a shield mod in the .8 range and less hull than your Yellowstone shuttle.

    Thanks to the broken EPtA, the owner/user of this ship gets to choose between dying fast by running without cloak, or dying even FASTER because everyone on the other side is pounding EPtA (or only a few-your cruisers for example. HOW FAST can you slice through twenty-something thousand hull with no shielding? you can do THAT on a MIRANDA.)

    flat fact now: The Devs (maybe inadvertently as they claim, maybe deliberately) gave the Feds a HUGE advantage-not only tougher ships with more weapons and more weapons power, but the ability to negate the whole reason KDF ships were "balanced" with thinner hulls and weaker shields, and the entire justification used for not fixing the pivot point on Raptor class vessels or giving the KDF a 5 console escort-class.

    see, you all got an "I Win" button that negates an ENTIRE CLASS of ships-not one design, the ENTIRE CLASS in PvP.

    Which is why I don't believe the Devs when they say they're going to fix it.

    Wanted to make a slight clarification: The Hegh'ta (and other battlecloaking BoPs) can't use engineering or science abilities while cloaked. They can, however, use tactical abilities and captain skills. Hence, our being able to buff for a decloak alpha while cloaked (albeit with a lot of friggin noise made in the process, which is yet another way of being able to tell whether there's someone cloaked nearby and getting ready to attack).
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
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  • b1970b1970 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So this exploit is completely unfair - oh and that B'rel perfect cloak was only used by a very very few people as you had to buy a bunch of Romualn Boffs that were 80K fleet marks at least + dilithium - perhaps a dozen people did it - vs - every ship in PvP now using this cheat/exploit

    You think only a dozen people use it ??
    I don't pvp much, don't use cloak but i got the tactical romulan doffs, +2% ctrh, +5% crtd per bo. thats 3 on my fleet Defiant for PVE !! (and im not the only1 in my fleet that use the doff's and don't use cloak/play pvp)
    So pvp'ers don't use the 6% crth & 15% crtd from 3 tactical doffs, sorry but don't i know your wrong, if pve'ers use it i know pvp'ers must use it.
  • timezargtimezarg Member Posts: 1,268
    edited June 2013
    b1970 wrote: »
    You think only a dozen people use it ??
    I don't pvp much, don't use cloak but i got the tactical romulan doffs, +2% ctrh, +5% crtd per bo. thats 3 on my fleet Defiant for PVE !! (and im not the only1 in my fleet that use the doff's and don't use cloak/play pvp)
    So pvp'ers don't use the 6% crth & 15% crtd from 3 tactical doffs, sorry but don't i know your wrong, if pve'ers use it i know pvp'ers must use it.

    Not necessarily. See, most experienced/skilled PvPers tend to have a sense of class. They generally know when something's an exploit and is ultimately leading to an unfair matchup. Only the tactless trolls and exploiters use these things on a regular basis. There's no fun in just throwing around exploits to beat your enemy easily.

    Whereas PvEers are actually the ones that seem to take exploits that can be used against PvE opponents/targets and overuse the TRIBBLE out of them. Take the whole business with tricobalt mines, for example. People were using those to kill STF gates before taking out the transformers, for cryin' out loud. That's what really brought attention to the problem, not people using it in PvP.
    tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    That part isn't true... Running EPTA on your cloaker will NOT keep you cloaked. It will just reveal everyone else for you. lol

    I ment the rest if my team can't see them unless they have epta as well.

    Sure I can shoot the cloaked guy, but I'm a sci ship speced for finding them, not for damaging them when found. I haven't really found a sci build that's great at both.


    Which is its own separate issue, my point is, if a guy is fully specing to be a sub hunter he won't be worth much in any other department if epta goes back to only 1%

    I'm thinking maybe adding more like 5-15% depending on the tank of epta that's taken.

    This way you'll have between what a field of vision 5-20km against a basic before other factors cloak? I don't know the math off hand so...
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
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  • the4monkeysthe4monkeys Member Posts: 172 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Vape!!!!!!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    patrickngo wrote: »
    5-15% is viable-though I'd personally prefer a range of 1-5% instead, giving the EPTA at ensign level a short-range, Lt. level range out to tractor-beams, and LTC level range out to raw engagement (aka 10K) so a 3/5/10 is reasonable-reason being, if you've got your sound set up right, at 10K you can hear a cloaker buffing (or you could, before EPtA made that redundant) and ready your buffs/tractor-beams. (i.e. the power doesn't substitute for skill, it enhances it and gives you the ability to shoot first at a target with no shields-which even a Sci ship SHOULD be able to get a kill doing...)

    THAT would put it back into the realm of "Skill" instead of "Gear".

    (for those that don't know how to detect a cloaker without magic-scaled EPtA, you turn off the music and ambient noise on your sound control-that leaves you the 'sound effects' active without a bunch of ear-deadening static. Buffs, and decloaks, make certain specific sounds...in a way, it really IS like hunting subs. the technique was developed in KvK, a few fed players know it, now everyone who can read should be able to catch me on the approach, even without Aux powers...)

    im saying the 5-15% added only to the base before other possible bonuses. so itll only really benifit sci ships. also, you have to remember that very few sci ships have access to high level engineering slots and when they do that taking a skill like that isnt very balanced against the other choices. maybe even something like 3%/6%/9% increase would do the trick (before other bonuses)?
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
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