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How To Fix PvP - Player Concensus

uhmariuhmari Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited June 2013 in PvP Gameplay
This Post is a means to collect feedback on how players think we should
fix pvp. Please include any idea's that are innovative to help make pvp better.
Lastly, Please keep this topic Strictly to

Shields
Weapons
Skills

Thanks
Post edited by uhmari on

Comments

  • uhmariuhmari Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I will start by saying the following


    I believe there is a major fudamental problem with this game when
    it comes to All three of the Above these are as follows


    Weapons: At current for both pve and pvp, there is generally speaking
    only 1-2 Good builds, That use 1-2 Types of weapons (cannons pve, beams pvp).

    This in and of itself is not attractiive. I'd Like to see ALL weapons good, and
    alll weapons Equally Valuable in both situations. The only way you can do this
    is to set up a Paper rock scissors succession. For example, Phasers > covariant >Disruptor>Regenerative Etc.

    Shielding/Hull

    I think the idea of hull tanking in this game is ridiculous. Its unrealistic, and its far from what star-trek presented.

    I would like to see a booster to shielding Hp, And Other Stats Like Resistance, And Regeneration.

    Skills


    for me skills are to spamy, they are vastly overpowered, and the share cool down of each other way to much.

    I want to see things like Rapid fire, and Scatter shot on same cool down, but not
    rapid fire and Torpedo Overload.

    As for healing, I think science really gets the short end of the stick, and kind of want
    to see maybe some creative things go out of science into engie, and out of engie into
    science

    Science should be a purely Disable/Support Role, And Engine Pure Tank.

    By this i mean science should have the skills like Shield Regen (Not ot self, but to allies)
    and any other sort of Player to ally repair.


    Enigneering should offer personal healing, at more stronger rates.

    For this reason it may be better to make cool downs on science lower, but skills weaker
    and cool downs on engineers larger, but stronger.

    This way, Tactical is playing a DMG role (Class cannon)
    Engineering is playing a longevity "take the damage, but dwendle the enemy down"
    and science is out there stunning, and healing instead of dealing damage.


    Imo 60% of the damage in science vessels should be in skills, Unlike the others.
  • uhmariuhmari Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Starship Weapons Training + Beam Damage / Cannon Damage
    Starship Energy Weapons + Beam/Mine Damage
    Starship Projectile Weapons + Cannon/Torpedo Damage
    Starship Energy Weapons Specialization Beam/Min Critical
    Starship Projectile Weapons Specialization Cannon/Torpedo Damage Critical


    Reduce the Rate of fire on beams from 4 Seconds to 2
    Increase the rate of fire on cannons from 2 seconds to 5


    <Doing More Math Atm to review>
  • drunkadmiraldrunkadmiral Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    disable procs and doffs from pvp
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    uhmari, your post makes no sense to me. It almost seems like you don't pvp in this game and just decided to make a thread about it because you see others complaining. Your post contains a ton of misinformation and then you base your "fixes" on this misinformation. It just doesn't work.
    uhmari wrote: »
    Weapons: At current for both pve and pvp, there is generally speaking
    only 1-2 Good builds, That use 1-2 Types of weapons (cannons pve, beams pvp).
    Since when are beams the choice of pvpers? Maybe the odd dual beam bank or pressure cruiser, but pretty much every escort will be running cannons.
    I think the idea of hull tanking in this game is ridiculous. Its unrealistic, and its far from what star-trek presented.

    I would like to see a booster to shielding Hp, And Other Stats Like Resistance, And Regeneration.
    If you're hull tanking you're doing something wrong. If you can whittle someone's shields down (or even just one facing or a well timed shield phaser proc during an alpha strike) then their hull is nothing and they're as good as dead.
    for me skills are to spamy, they are vastly overpowered, and the share cool down of each other way to much.

    I want to see things like Rapid fire, and Scatter shot on same cool down, but not
    rapid fire and Torpedo Overload.
    Torpedo Overload? Do you mean Torpedo High Yield or Torpedo Spread? Those don't share a cooldwon with Rapid Fire or Scatter Volley.
    Science should be a purely Disable/Support Role, And Engine Pure Tank.
    That's pretty much what they are now, except add in a team healing role for each of them. Although it can be done, being a Pure Tank is a pretty bad idea in PvP. You'd be wise to give up some of that tankability for team oriented healing.
    By this i mean science should have the skills like Shield Regen (Not ot self, but to allies)
    and any other sort of Player to ally repair.
    They have this. It's called Science Fleet, which increases shield healing, reduces shield/energy drain, and reduces damage to shields.
    Enigneering should offer personal healing, at more stronger rates.
    Back to back Miracle Workers is not enough for you?
  • aldo1rainealdo1raine Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Worst thread ever?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Nerf Klinks, Buff Rommies
  • uhmariuhmari Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    skurf wrote: »
    uhmari, your post makes no sense to me. It almost seems like you don't pvp in this game and just decided to make a thread about it because you see others complaining. Your post contains a ton of misinformation and then you base your "fixes" on this misinformation. It just doesn't work.

    Incorrect, I was actually Pvping during this post.

    Since when are beams the choice of pvpers? Maybe the odd dual beam bank or pressure cruiser, but pretty much every escort will be running cannons.

    Beams are desirable over cannons because they are constant substained Dps. The are far more accurate, there for the Dps out put on beams are generally higher then cannons

    If you're hull tanking you're doing something wrong. If you can whittle someone's shields down (or even just one facing or a well timed shield phaser proc during an alpha strike) then their hull is nothing and they're as good as dead.

    No one said I HULL TANK, it was stated the game Has hull tanking, Meaning The Primariy damage absorption is HULL, not shielding. The point was to reduce Hull Hp, and increase Shielding (Or just increase shielding) for you stupid people > 40k Hull > 5k Shielding


    Torpedo Overload? Do you mean Torpedo High Yield or Torpedo Spread? Those don't share a cooldwon with Rapid Fire or Scatter Volley.

    Yes i know, think before you type. It was an example To clarify between the two types of skills

    That's pretty much what they are now, except add in a team healing role for each of them. Although it can be done, being a Pure Tank is a pretty bad idea in PvP. You'd be wise to give up some of that tankability for team oriented healing.

    As for these Healing related posts, you are misunderstanding, I would like to see
    the science vessel go off Dps and more on a pure control / Healing Level, Like that
    of a healing in world of ******** if it gives you an accurate idea, Specifically A Resto druid
    or Discipline priest who is throwing out CC while Spot healing.

    This would likely Require some improvements to th e interface, as i have noticed manual targeting of group members (By clicking pictures) tends to bug things like hull repair etc.

    They have this. It's called Science Fleet, which increases shield healing, reduces shield/energy drain, and reduces damage to shields.

    Reworks would include much larger heals, but more longer cool downs, It moves away from the concept of Spam, I highly believe this is a good presuit for pvp in the game, Less skills (abilities) and more skill (Ie player modulation of skill, and gear builds as well as understanding when to push something and when not to. If you /understand that

    Back to back Miracle Workers is not enough for you?


    In general pvp is all about spamming buttons with over powered heals and disables.
    this is the major problem

    minor problems include under power shielding tanking. Shielding because of the sides offer excellent options for skill to play effect, and Modulation of shiellding in game should be more powerful, and useful but also offer larger disadvantages


    One way to do this is to increase the healing on thte shielding you modulate, but reduce the life drain on the other sides by a greater amount (65-75%).


    Some math examples.

    Lets say all shielding sides have 10,000 value that value is 100%.

    Your forward shields are down and you modulate (currently) you will receive something like 2,500 heal.

    The drain on the back side would be something like 500.


    Lets Jack up these rates, to 5000 forward, and the drain from the back to 6500.

    So that you heal forward 50% Per a side but drain 65% of that value from the other.

    This is where math gets hard to understand but if you cant follow, just look at the "concept" above and you will get an idea. Basically Larger heal on that side you modulate to, at the cost of lower life on the others.

    Advanced math concepts
    If all sides have 10,000 Shielding, a total of 40,000 shields.

    You take 6,000 damage on the forward value reducing health to 40%.

    You module, attempting to gain a value of 6,000 (60%).

    You will Take that 60% and divide it by 3, Which comes out to 2,000 HP Per a side, Or 20%.

    On top of this you will add a penalty for modulating, that will drain an additional 10% of the values taken from each side of that max value (600).

    So your drain on each side will actually be 2,600 (26%)


    What this will do is encourage Rear and side attacks more, and stop people from sitting stationary just spamming.


    next, the reduction to weapons CD will further help with insane Dps rates.

    as for the Disables, I am working on them and will think it through to see whats the best option.
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Make a good pvp tutorial in game to have more people playing PvP and nerf all QQers on the forums and if possible nerf team work.
  • uhmariuhmari Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Honestly, When i invision pvp for this game, I see something very close to how feds and domin fought on the way to DS9.

    That basically means Cruisers with heavy heavy tank, (Buffing all shield mods by 50% HP values+ Other stats like resistance, regen) and giving them 2 shield slots.

    That basically means, escorts are down there in the fight of things dealing heavy damage.

    Science in the back supporting, jamming etc.


    And i even would like to see Fighters become a main -playable ship, that is highly evasive on both detection and dodging weapons. They should be near unstoppable in pvp, at the cost of 50% or even lower of the dps of other ships.

    In pvp however, they should be equally as hard to kill with the exception of when they are tractor beamed, it should some how increase their chance to be hit.
  • hereticknight085hereticknight085 Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    uhmari wrote: »
    Honestly, When i invision pvp for this game, I see something very close to how feds and domin fought on the way to DS9...

    ...And i even would like to see Fighters become a main -playable ship, that is highly evasive on both detection and dodging weapons. They should be near unstoppable in pvp, at the cost of 50% or even lower of the dps of other ships.

    In pvp however, they should be equally as hard to kill with the exception of when they are tractor beamed, it should some how increase their chance to be hit.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVtj7PauX_I <--- taken from sacrifice of angels, fed vs dominion

    Soooo you want fighters to be slapped away in one shot, and it only take 3 or 4 shots to hit them. How does that make them near unstoppable?
    It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. B)
  • skurfskurf Member Posts: 1,071 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    uhmari wrote: »
    In pvp however, they should be equally as hard to kill with the exception of when they are tractor beamed, it should some how increase their chance to be hit.

    Tractor beam does increase a ship's chance of being hit.
  • uhmariuhmari Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    As for Fighters, You would need to give them insane Speed, and mobility, your talking like 26-28 Agility, and high impulse speeds.

    Tractor beam does increase hit change, but i think it should have an effect based on size of the ship (or in the game mechanic, hull HP of the ship)

    So that higher Hull are nearly stopped in momentum, While lower ones are only slowed.
    This concept would increase the slow rater greatly from what it is now.

    It should be set up with those mechanics to say, Slow the ship by 50% (Cap/max)
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