a question for the guys who play Blue side exclusively (but anyone is welcome to chime in...)
Never flown that ugly piece of pseudo engineering that Klinks call ships
As a Fed, with the release of LoR, will you be taking your fed-aligned Romulan into FvF pvp, or will you only fight Klingons as god intended?
Probably yes. Always wanted to fly D'Deridex. But it will something I do "from time to time". I think my main ship will be Fed one (Patrol Escort/Vesta (as battlecruiser) for tac, DSV/Nebula for sci).
If you ARE taking Warbirds into FvF, what do you think the impact will be ON FvF play?
Is this positive, or negative?
Utterly, completely and totally negative. Warbirds (or better to say: decloaking alpha and battlecloak) will kill PvP. I will play Warbird only because I like this ship and will do it from time to time to fly the big, green and ugly.
i want to make my rom a kdf, but feds just get more access to pvp
i can only hope that theres a ground swell of new kdf players, but i doubt it. my 2 kdf want more matches to pop! and not vs farmers. other then the first few missions for them theres no incentive to play them at all. the romulans are getting all the attention and fan fair. the kdf are so middle child now it hurts.
oh, and fvf got ruined a long time ago. when the federation got thier own carrier pets and ships with hangers. now with roms, theres really no difference between FvF and FvK. can my kdf just get it over with and join a fed fleet now? cryptic should have not given the roms the choice of siding with the federation, only the kdf. the kdf faction would have been saved, not damned
Well, as there is finally no real difference of what players can expect in FvF in comparison to FvK maybe Cryptic can finally get rid of the former. At least then I don't have to wait for half an hour until my PvP queue starts. My Romulan will be KDF alligned because that is where my fleet is and I would love to get the chance to test him in PvP outside of Kerrat.
However, I predict the Feds will find a new reason why they stay away from the evul Klingun queue. The leech console will probably considered our new 'I win' button from their PoV as soon as they find out that the battlecloak is not as great as they always thought.
Yes, where will the feds run to now that the evil Battlecloak is among them and can not be eacaped?
Whom shall be the scapegoat for all thier complaints now that one thing that they avoided in fvk play is now stuck to them as glue?
AND, the new toon won't be the only toon I play with. Levelling will be by doffing, and doing the "necessary" missions because of the rewards. I expect it to take 2 or 3 weeks. So in time the Reman is levelled, I also have a clear picture which ship to choose.
To an extent, I think it's likely for some that it will come down to what's in the next lockbox, eh?
Emission Seeking Torpedo/Plasmonic Leech
Possible?
The Torp added to the box because of the cloaking.
The Leech added to the box because of the lower base power.
Cause face it, with the lower base power of the Warbirds - AKHG/Leech will have an advantage over MACO... folks have already been complaining about the lower base power in exchange for the Battle Cloak/Singularity Abilities. All those folks that haven't followed it who would have complained are likely to complain...
To an extent, I think it's likely for some that it will come down to what's in the next lockbox, eh?
Emission Seeking Torpedo/Plasmonic Leech
Possible?
The Torp added to the box because of the cloaking.
The Leech added to the box because of the lower base power.
Cause face it, with the lower base power of the Warbirds - AKHG/Leech will have an advantage over MACO... folks have already been complaining about the lower base power in exchange for the Battle Cloak/Singularity Abilities. All those folks that haven't followed it who would have complained are likely to complain...
All the more reason to role a KDF-rom IMO.
I do not believe that the feds should ever get Leech due to the fact that they already have the ships with the highest shield mods in the game, and can literally run full human boffs/ leadership crews giving them the best hull regen. of all the factions.
Given them that power bonus on top of everything they have going for them will be too much. They have the best science and escorts in the game. Surely that is enough.
i want to make my rom a kdf, but feds just get more access to pvp
And This. I was going to make my Rommie KDF side, but the FvK ques have been getting slower and slower as of late, especially during off-hours. I can only wait so long for a que to pop on my KDF toon before I hop over to a Fed character for a quicker match.
And This. I was going to make my Rommie KDF side, but the FvK ques have been getting slower and slower as of late, especially during off-hours. I can only wait so long for a que to pop on my KDF toon before I hop over to a Fed character for a quicker match.
Personally I think that people need to support FvK. The problem persists if you support it.
I also think that KDF uniqueness has been watered down to the extent that not playing KvF says more about the Feds that it does about the KDF.
Think people have certain expectations when they think about joining a queue. My expectations certainly vary in what I would expect to see in a FvF vs. a FvK match. For many folks, FvK simply is not any fun. Can't fault them for that - it's easy enough to see why they might not find it fun.
They queue FvF and they're just going to have a good ol' simple whambam fight. They're not worried about cloakers. They're not worried about drainers. It's just good ol' simple whambam for them.
Some folks are likely to give up on PvP with Battle Cloaks being introduced with the Romulans. It's no longer going to be a case of that good ol' simple whambam fight. They're likely just to walk away from PvP. If they didn't find it to be fun with FvK, they're not going to find it to be fun with FvF.
Others might be fine with the cloaking stuff...but there are other things that they do not like about what they expect to see in FvK. So they'll keep on doing their FvF and continue to ignore the FvK.
Some folks might have different expectations, but that's okay with them - they'll continue to queue FvK as they always have.
There's been mention here and there (not from Cryptic, but from players) about adding a third option to the queues (technically a third):
Your Faction vs. Other Faction
Your Faction vs. Your Faction
Any Faction vs. Any Faction
The third one there being pretty much like how STFs and certain events work. Mixed teams.
I'm curious how many folks that would add vs. how many that would drive away.
Personally I think that people need to support FvK. The problem persists if you support it.
I also think that KDF uniqueness has been watered down to the extent that not playing KvF says more about the Feds that it does about the KDF.
Hey, when I hop onto my Fed toon I always que FvK (and FvF), but 80% of the time the FvF que pops first. For some reason though, a lot of people i play with on fed side don't que FvK for some reason, although when they team with me they do cause I will que it whether they like it or not. I know how it feels to be a Klink waiting 10, 20, 30 minutes for the que to pop, and explain to my teammates that is why I'm queing FvK and they don't seem to have a problem with it. Although, I'm not sure if it sticks with them for when they don't team with me. One can only hope.
I will make my first Romulan Fed so I can get into FvF queue but my second will be KDF.
I play KDF 75% of the time now, but when I play my Fed I usually queue for both FvF and FvK myself and go with whatever pops first. There are some advantages going into FvK as a Fed rather then FvF. The KDF has less zombie ship players, and are usually pugs, just pretty good pugs though. If you have experience playing KDF you don't die to decloaking alpha as much since you know what to watch out for.
I hope leech stays KDF only, and they stop cross faction consoles, I am willing to try a Fed Romulan without it.
Hey, when I hop onto my Fed toon I always que FvK (and FvF), but 80% of the time the FvF que pops first. For some reason though, a lot of people i play with on fed side don't que FvK for some reason, although when they team with me they do cause I will que it whether they like it or not. I know how it feels to be a Klink waiting 10, 20, 30 minutes for the que to pop, and explain to my teammates that is why I'm queing FvK and they don't seem to have a problem with it. Although, I'm not sure if it sticks with them for when they don't team with me. One can only hope.
Sorry mate - please do not think I was directing any form of accusation at you.
Never intended to sound so much like an indictment!
I do not believe that the feds should ever get Leech due to the fact that they already have the ships with the highest shield mods in the game,
You do know that this is not always the case right?
The majority of Fleet BCs have the exact same Shield Mod as all Fed Fleet Cruisers, along with their superior turn rates and ability to use better weaponry.
Feds don't actually have raiders, so nothing to compare to.
The Fleet Raptors have lower than escort mods (0.92 vs. 0.99 generally), but they all have built-in cloaks that do not require a console slot.
The Fleet Scourge has a shield mod on par with fleet escorts (0.99).
There are things to be upset about for long-time KDF players, but when it comes to endgame ships this is just no longer one of them.
You do know that this is not always the case right?
The majority of Fleet BCs have the exact same Shield Mod as all Fed Fleet Cruisers, along with their superior turn rates and ability to use better weaponry.
Feds don't actually have raiders, so nothing to compare to.
The Fleet Raptors have lower than escort mods (0.92 vs. 0.99 generally), but they all have built-in cloaks that do not require a console slot.
The Fleet Scourge has a shield mod on par with fleet escorts (0.99).
There are things to be upset about for long-time KDF players, but when it comes to endgame ships this is just no longer one of them.
By itself, I absolutely agree with you, but in its proper context which I stated the Fed ships have more than enough going for them.
Just take a look at their escort department and they have more than they could know what to do with.
As a KDF escort pilot I would gladly give up the leech for some KDF 5-tac console escorts.
IMO I believe that one of the reasons why the KDF do not have one, is because of the perceived and very real issue of adding that power bonus on top of a 5-TAC console ships like the Defiant, Kumari and MVAE.
I do not believe that the feds should ever get Leech due to the fact that they already have the ships with the highest shield mods in the game, and can literally run full human boffs/ leadership crews giving them the best hull regen. of all the factions.
Given them that power bonus on top of everything they have going for them will be too much. They have the best science and escorts in the game. Surely that is enough.
"NEVER! I must have the leech on a Fed! The Klingons have all the OP toys! I should have battle cloak, along with leech, BUT I don't lose any shield or hull, I won't fly some squishy Bird of Prey. Instead my *insert escort of choice* also needs *insert other gimmick that is considered OP but not really used at all*, because I HAVE TO KIRK EVERYTHING!!!1!!"
Now of course, I don't actually feel that way, but so many others seem to think like that.
Leech is a moot point. It's not really an issue IMO. I mean, if it's nerfed any more, then nobody will use it at all. At least as it stands, it's still useful. So many seem to think that it's such a 'major balancing issue', when I don't feel it is. Sure it gives bonus power, but so does a lot of other stuff. But power isn't really a balancing problem, stuff like too much healing, spammy pets, etc are.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
IMO I believe that one of the reasons why the KDF do not have one, is because of the perceived and very real issue of adding that power bonus on top of a 5-TAC console ships like the Defiant, Kumari and MVAE.
The funny part is how little I encounter those three ships in FvF. :P
It's possible that you're right, but I don't think that's why Feds haven't gotten leech yet.
Leech is a moot point. It's not really an issue IMO.
It is still, easily, one of the most overpowered consoles in the game.
Aside from it adding to all of the potential single ship and team-wide drain mechanics that everyone loves so much - +16 power across the board for the price of 1 console is ridiculous.
Really, just think about that for a moment.
You have 75~80% of the power gained from EPTW, EPTS, EPTE & EPTA 1 all at the same time and all you have to do is...shoot your targets.
Yes, there is a lot of power in the game - that doesn't make even more power any less useful due to the way things like weapon power overcapping, shield regen/res, movement speed/turn and aux based powers function with even more power.
Which is exactly what Leech gives you, more power.
there isn't KvK very often because that requires twice as many kdf players to be pvping to get a KvK match. it has nothing to do with kdf players not wanting to fight each other. theres only KvKs when the feds are all to scared to que up with them
the kdf end game ships still lack a huge amount of the diversity the feds have. luckily theres 2 more raptors, 2 more bops, and 1 more battle cruiser they could release a fleet version of, to fix that.
We had some pretty big KvK battles in N'Vak a couple weeks ago, it was pretty fun with BOP all constantly ambushing each other. Unfortunatley I think most KDF just assumes there isn't enough on to queue for KvK though so mnost don't even remember it exists or bother trying, then nobody else does because its empty.
there isn't KvK very often because that requires twice as many kdf players to be pvping to get a KvK match. it has nothing to do with kdf players not wanting to fight each other. theres only KvKs when the feds are all to scared to que up with them
the kdf end game ships still lack a huge amount of the diversity the feds have. luckily theres 2 more raptors, 2 more bops, and 1 more battle cruiser they could release a fleet version of, to fix that.
No. From my experience, everyone just cloaks up and nothing gets done. people dont want that, they want to fight.
No. From my experience, everyone just cloaks up and nothing gets done. people dont want that, they want to fight.
This will jsut become a bigger problem now.
Only when you get those Klingons whom are just alting and looking for easy DL. They always run and hide till the match is done.
I've had plenty of fun KvK matches in STO. It just takes players not squatters.
All we can do is pray that Fed-Romulan do not have a similar effect on FvF.
The funny part is how little I encounter those three ships in FvF. :P
It's possible that you're right, but I don't think that's why Feds haven't gotten leech yet.
It is still, easily, one of the most overpowered consoles in the game.
Aside from it adding to all of the potential single ship and team-wide drain mechanics that everyone loves so much - +16 power across the board for the price of 1 console is ridiculous.
Really, just think about that for a moment.
You have 75~80% of the power gained from EPTW, EPTS, EPTE & EPTA 1 all at the same time and all you have to do is...shoot your targets.
Yes, there is a lot of power in the game - that doesn't make even more power any less useful due to the way things like weapon power overcapping, shield regen/res, movement speed/turn and aux based powers function with even more power.
Which is exactly what Leech gives you, more power.
Ever since team batteries with or without Doffs, Maco bonus, set bonus, rmc what not console etc allow for cap'ing all 4 subsytems for the whole team your point was mute.
if it were the only way of getting extra power, and if the cap was higher...it would be more of a problem.
Compare to other universal consoles with a + power bonus leech is pretty much in line.
As things stand the drain is minimal, and the gain is just one variant of reaching energy levels that should only be available to ...what were they called again....those guys with Miracle work....engies.
Ever since team batteries with or without Doffs, Maco bonus, set bonus, rmc what not console etc allow for cap'ing all 4 subsytems for the whole team your point was mute.
if it were the only way of getting extra power, and if the cap was higher...it would be more of a problem.
1) Some caps can, in fact, be higher now. See Warp Cores. Hillariously, Weapon power is not one of them but both Aux & Shield Power are. The Devs seem to feel that "more weapon power" could be unbalanced, unfortunately the other half of the coin (healing & resistances) continues to elude their design theory completely.
2) MACO requires your opponents to shoot you. Generally not everyone is shooting you all of the time. Plas Leech's power bonus is larger, creates a larger disparity between players with and players without due to combination of drain+gain and is more readily available since the act of shooting one's opponents is more of a guarantee than the idea that everyone will always be shooting you.
What's moot about my point is the fact that Leech will now available to Feds and we all have to pay 1 console slot tax to break even.
On a side note, I am seriously anticipating former Feddies now using battlecloak to report all of us snoopers harpooning them with a tractor and blowing them up while in cloak.
After all, they're in cloak, how could we see them? XD
Comments
Never flown that ugly piece of pseudo engineering that Klinks call ships
Probably yes. Always wanted to fly D'Deridex. But it will something I do "from time to time". I think my main ship will be Fed one (Patrol Escort/Vesta (as battlecruiser) for tac, DSV/Nebula for sci).
Utterly, completely and totally negative. Warbirds (or better to say: decloaking alpha and battlecloak) will kill PvP. I will play Warbird only because I like this ship and will do it from time to time to fly the big, green and ugly.
There is no reason at all to take your romulan klingon side.
So yes expect lots of FvF that will now feature battle cloaks.
i can only hope that theres a ground swell of new kdf players, but i doubt it. my 2 kdf want more matches to pop! and not vs farmers. other then the first few missions for them theres no incentive to play them at all. the romulans are getting all the attention and fan fair. the kdf are so middle child now it hurts.
oh, and fvf got ruined a long time ago. when the federation got thier own carrier pets and ships with hangers. now with roms, theres really no difference between FvF and FvK. can my kdf just get it over with and join a fed fleet now? cryptic should have not given the roms the choice of siding with the federation, only the kdf. the kdf faction would have been saved, not damned
However, I predict the Feds will find a new reason why they stay away from the evul Klingun queue. The leech console will probably considered our new 'I win' button from their PoV as soon as they find out that the battlecloak is not as great as they always thought.
Whom shall be the scapegoat for all thier complaints now that one thing that they avoided in fvk play is now stuck to them as glue?
R.I.P
AND, the new toon won't be the only toon I play with. Levelling will be by doffing, and doing the "necessary" missions because of the rewards. I expect it to take 2 or 3 weeks. So in time the Reman is levelled, I also have a clear picture which ship to choose.
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
Emission Seeking Torpedo/Plasmonic Leech
Possible?
The Torp added to the box because of the cloaking.
The Leech added to the box because of the lower base power.
Cause face it, with the lower base power of the Warbirds - AKHG/Leech will have an advantage over MACO... folks have already been complaining about the lower base power in exchange for the Battle Cloak/Singularity Abilities. All those folks that haven't followed it who would have complained are likely to complain...
All the more reason to role a KDF-rom IMO.
I do not believe that the feds should ever get Leech due to the fact that they already have the ships with the highest shield mods in the game, and can literally run full human boffs/ leadership crews giving them the best hull regen. of all the factions.
Given them that power bonus on top of everything they have going for them will be too much. They have the best science and escorts in the game. Surely that is enough.
This.
And This. I was going to make my Rommie KDF side, but the FvK ques have been getting slower and slower as of late, especially during off-hours. I can only wait so long for a que to pop on my KDF toon before I hop over to a Fed character for a quicker match.
@DevolvedOne
Personally I think that people need to support FvK. The problem persists if you support it.
I also think that KDF uniqueness has been watered down to the extent that not playing KvF says more about the Feds that it does about the KDF.
They queue FvF and they're just going to have a good ol' simple whambam fight. They're not worried about cloakers. They're not worried about drainers. It's just good ol' simple whambam for them.
Some folks are likely to give up on PvP with Battle Cloaks being introduced with the Romulans. It's no longer going to be a case of that good ol' simple whambam fight. They're likely just to walk away from PvP. If they didn't find it to be fun with FvK, they're not going to find it to be fun with FvF.
Others might be fine with the cloaking stuff...but there are other things that they do not like about what they expect to see in FvK. So they'll keep on doing their FvF and continue to ignore the FvK.
Some folks might have different expectations, but that's okay with them - they'll continue to queue FvK as they always have.
There's been mention here and there (not from Cryptic, but from players) about adding a third option to the queues (technically a third):
Your Faction vs. Other Faction
Your Faction vs. Your Faction
Any Faction vs. Any Faction
The third one there being pretty much like how STFs and certain events work. Mixed teams.
I'm curious how many folks that would add vs. how many that would drive away.
Hey, when I hop onto my Fed toon I always que FvK (and FvF), but 80% of the time the FvF que pops first. For some reason though, a lot of people i play with on fed side don't que FvK for some reason, although when they team with me they do cause I will que it whether they like it or not. I know how it feels to be a Klink waiting 10, 20, 30 minutes for the que to pop, and explain to my teammates that is why I'm queing FvK and they don't seem to have a problem with it. Although, I'm not sure if it sticks with them for when they don't team with me. One can only hope.
@DevolvedOne
I play KDF 75% of the time now, but when I play my Fed I usually queue for both FvF and FvK myself and go with whatever pops first. There are some advantages going into FvK as a Fed rather then FvF. The KDF has less zombie ship players, and are usually pugs, just pretty good pugs though. If you have experience playing KDF you don't die to decloaking alpha as much since you know what to watch out for.
I hope leech stays KDF only, and they stop cross faction consoles, I am willing to try a Fed Romulan without it.
Sorry mate - please do not think I was directing any form of accusation at you.
Never intended to sound so much like an indictment!
You do know that this is not always the case right?
The majority of Fleet BCs have the exact same Shield Mod as all Fed Fleet Cruisers, along with their superior turn rates and ability to use better weaponry.
Feds don't actually have raiders, so nothing to compare to.
The Fleet Raptors have lower than escort mods (0.92 vs. 0.99 generally), but they all have built-in cloaks that do not require a console slot.
The Fleet Scourge has a shield mod on par with fleet escorts (0.99).
There are things to be upset about for long-time KDF players, but when it comes to endgame ships this is just no longer one of them.
By itself, I absolutely agree with you, but in its proper context which I stated the Fed ships have more than enough going for them.
Just take a look at their escort department and they have more than they could know what to do with.
As a KDF escort pilot I would gladly give up the leech for some KDF 5-tac console escorts.
IMO I believe that one of the reasons why the KDF do not have one, is because of the perceived and very real issue of adding that power bonus on top of a 5-TAC console ships like the Defiant, Kumari and MVAE.
"NEVER! I must have the leech on a Fed! The Klingons have all the OP toys! I should have battle cloak, along with leech, BUT I don't lose any shield or hull, I won't fly some squishy Bird of Prey. Instead my *insert escort of choice* also needs *insert other gimmick that is considered OP but not really used at all*, because I HAVE TO KIRK EVERYTHING!!!1!!"
Now of course, I don't actually feel that way, but so many others seem to think like that.
Leech is a moot point. It's not really an issue IMO. I mean, if it's nerfed any more, then nobody will use it at all. At least as it stands, it's still useful. So many seem to think that it's such a 'major balancing issue', when I don't feel it is. Sure it gives bonus power, but so does a lot of other stuff. But power isn't really a balancing problem, stuff like too much healing, spammy pets, etc are.
Same reasons KDF do not que for KvK.
All we can do is pray that Fed-Romulan do not have a similar effect on FvF.
The funny part is how little I encounter those three ships in FvF. :P
It's possible that you're right, but I don't think that's why Feds haven't gotten leech yet.
It is still, easily, one of the most overpowered consoles in the game.
Aside from it adding to all of the potential single ship and team-wide drain mechanics that everyone loves so much - +16 power across the board for the price of 1 console is ridiculous.
Really, just think about that for a moment.
You have 75~80% of the power gained from EPTW, EPTS, EPTE & EPTA 1 all at the same time and all you have to do is...shoot your targets.
Yes, there is a lot of power in the game - that doesn't make even more power any less useful due to the way things like weapon power overcapping, shield regen/res, movement speed/turn and aux based powers function with even more power.
Which is exactly what Leech gives you, more power.
the kdf end game ships still lack a huge amount of the diversity the feds have. luckily theres 2 more raptors, 2 more bops, and 1 more battle cruiser they could release a fleet version of, to fix that.
No. From my experience, everyone just cloaks up and nothing gets done. people dont want that, they want to fight.
This will jsut become a bigger problem now.
Only when you get those Klingons whom are just alting and looking for easy DL. They always run and hide till the match is done.
I've had plenty of fun KvK matches in STO. It just takes players not squatters.
R.I.P
Ever since team batteries with or without Doffs, Maco bonus, set bonus, rmc what not console etc allow for cap'ing all 4 subsytems for the whole team your point was mute.
if it were the only way of getting extra power, and if the cap was higher...it would be more of a problem.
Compare to other universal consoles with a + power bonus leech is pretty much in line.
As things stand the drain is minimal, and the gain is just one variant of reaching energy levels that should only be available to ...what were they called again....those guys with Miracle work....engies.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
1) Some caps can, in fact, be higher now. See Warp Cores. Hillariously, Weapon power is not one of them but both Aux & Shield Power are. The Devs seem to feel that "more weapon power" could be unbalanced, unfortunately the other half of the coin (healing & resistances) continues to elude their design theory completely.
2) MACO requires your opponents to shoot you. Generally not everyone is shooting you all of the time. Plas Leech's power bonus is larger, creates a larger disparity between players with and players without due to combination of drain+gain and is more readily available since the act of shooting one's opponents is more of a guarantee than the idea that everyone will always be shooting you.
What's moot about my point is the fact that Leech will now available to Feds and we all have to pay 1 console slot tax to break even.
After all, they're in cloak, how could we see them? XD
The only visiable Feds will be Farmers.. Everyone else will be playing either Body Guard, or Bait and snack on those Farmers.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku