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Enhanced Battle Cloak ships...

zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
edited May 2013 in Klingon Discussion
There is one idea I would like to throw out that might be the answer for the b'rel and the new EBC that probally on its current design has the same flaws to not be used much except for its 5 tactical console power.

The idea basically is that Cryptic makes a copy of what sensor analysis is and allows these ships with the EBC to have like a shield analysis so that with its having to keep decloaking that it gains benefit of this much like science ships have the ability to gain a damage bonus with their sensor analysis. In the EBC's case it would be shield penetration bonuses.

So basically it would somewhat balance the playing field with all the anti-cloaking powers out there and if its still felt too extreme for the idea of one of these ships actually killing something i'm sure they could put a counter to reset this theoretical analysis function to be reset if someone rotates shield frequency, or reverses shield polarity, and even if its a doff out there to be able to power quickly with boarding party as a high end engineering focus to benefit it too if you send warriors over to die to get the shield frequency :D

Anyways hopefully someone agrees with it enough that it could be a way to actually make the EBC useful to have fun with it and a possibility that cryptic might entertain the idea one day since the whole idea has tactics and more than enough counters.
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Comments

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,708 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    As much as i'd like to throw the Klingons a bone i believe that adding sensor analyses as an added bonus would severely upset balance.

    Yes, the advanced battle cloak can be countered when the target knows what he/she is doing but it still allows for a very potent alpha strike ability.

    Throw in a sensor analyses and the whole gameplay / cloak detection would need an overhaul because PVP would become even more one-sided towards the cloak users.

    Not even talking about giving an unique science ability to everyone.
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  • ironmakoironmako Member Posts: 770 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I am a B'rel user, and I really think they should REMOVE all de-cloaking abilities. Throughout the history of star trek, there has never (to my knowledge) been any weapon/ablility which could disable an oppositions ship. The B'rel already has a TRIBBLE hull so why make it harder?

    Either that, or they should up the hull to 34000.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ironmako wrote: »
    I am a B'rel user, and I really think they should REMOVE all de-cloaking abilities. Throughout the history of star trek, there has never (to my knowledge) been any weapon/ablility which could disable an oppositions ship. The B'rel already has a TRIBBLE hull so why make it harder?

    Either that, or they should up the hull to 34000.

    As much as I like Klingons, that would be op along with the complete universal slots.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Honestly, cloaking is ok as it stands right now. In particular, in the EBC.

    The B'rel will still have a place in the new game. It'll still have a full universal BOFf layout, and it will still have the ability to use many things while remaining cloaked.

    What I am more worried about is if Klingons will have enough cloaking detection to actually see Romulan cloakers. Feds will, but I dunno about Klingons.
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  • ironmakoironmako Member Posts: 770 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    lianthelia wrote: »
    As much as I like Klingons, that would be op along with the complete universal slots.

    Im not sure about how OP they would be. Without their cloak, they are just a ship with extremely low HP. If they had 34000 HP, then they are in the escort range, and therefore be able to withstand an alpha strike rom one ship at least.

    At the min, its the Feds who are very OP in PvP, I am hoping there is a serious balancing coming up...
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Heh, the KDF Escort lineup is very badly outclassed right now. How many 5 TAC Console Escorts does the KDF have?

    Oh yeah.

    And BOPs in a number of PVP situations are a liability. The very nature of a proper "hit & run, recover, prepare for another attack" tactics that the BOP is built for makes them a problem when they leave you uncloaked and alone in a swarm of Feds.

    KDF Cruisers are actually quite fine, IMO, and in a better position overall than the Starfleet equivalents. But the Raptors and Destroyers are outclassed by Fed Escorts, and the BOP has lost quite a bit of lustre.
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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Eh thats always been the fed arguement that its too op when you have over 10 powers in the game already to counter the EBC.

    Some people don't have good reading comprehension though. The whole idea was using sensor analysis mechanic to be turned into something different to put on the b'rel and t'varo. Where instead of a a damage boost it would be a gradual shield penetration boost.

    Some posts here were okay and understanding just like it has low health and is shieldless while trying to constantly lob torpedoes at a target which defeats the whole purpose of this ship because its loosing its advantages and is nothing more than a ship not cloaked with removing the shields it has.

    In conclusion though anyone who actually uses a b'rel can tell you when you are in your EBC mode you are not much of a threat to anything unless you are on a team in a stf or something where you've always got an unshielded target.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    KDF has a much better overall lineup, BOPs, destroyers, battlecruisers, carriers, and the bort. Fed has escorts and a couple of p2w ships. If it weren't for equal access to JH ships, the Feds would be sucking hard
    What I am more worried about is if Klingons will have enough cloaking detection to actually see Romulan cloakers. Feds will, but I dunno about Klingons.

    I have 6 points of sensor skill on every ship, and it doesnt do hardly anything for high-skilled cloak, only for low-skilled console cloakers
  • saxfiresaxfire Member Posts: 558 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I have 6 points of sensor skill on every ship, and it doesnt do hardly anything for high-skilled cloak, only for low-skilled console cloakers

    It's because that's only average cloak detection and nothing special. add in few consoles, deflector, abilities and you get nice cloak sight.
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  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013

    ...

    The idea basically is that Cryptic makes a copy of what sensor analysis is and allows these ships with the EBC to have like a shield analysis so that with its having to keep decloaking that it gains benefit of this much like science ships have the ability to gain a damage bonus with their sensor analysis. In the EBC's case it would be shield penetration bonuses.

    An interesting idea but you then make it rather OP for the non-EBC using birds of prey... a cannon decloak volley with such an ability could be devastating.

    I would propose a different solution: Have the battle cloak synergize with the systems it enables to fire without breaking the EBC. In essence, have the enhanced battle cloak provide a different 'ambush' bonus than the regular cloaks: 'Strike'


    'Strike' ambush bonus: 5 second duration after decloak, provides same dmg bonus as current ambush bonus plus it removes the torpedo global timer during the 5 seconds so all torps can fire at once.

    This way, the EBC functions perfectly for torpedoes which is the only weapon it benefits.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    An interesting idea but you then make it rather OP for the non-EBC using birds of prey... a cannon decloak volley with such an ability could be devastating.

    I would propose a different solution: Have the battle cloak synergize with the systems it enables to fire without breaking the EBC. In essence, have the enhanced battle cloak provide a different 'ambush' bonus than the regular cloaks: 'Strike'


    'Strike' ambush bonus: 5 second duration after decloak, provides same dmg bonus as current ambush bonus plus it removes the torpedo global timer during the 5 seconds so all torps can fire at once.

    This way, the EBC functions perfectly for torpedoes which is the only weapon it benefits.

    Still you have missed the point as well the idea isn't giving it sensor analysis but something like sensor analysis where it works on same concept except slowly gives it more shield penetration (but not the damage stacking increase that you are thinking about) from torpedoes to make up for its numerous downsides where it gets very little advantage.

    Until you read very carefully as well some others this doesn't go anywhere until you catch the point of it being about balancing the ship to use it as a torpedo boat effectively.

    Edit: However I can see where this could be a problem tech wise but also this thread also shows that if they were to have the tech to implement this there would be many who would be rageing the forums just because they don't understand the idea of it. Thats why in one post I explained the idea of it being a shield analysis instead of the sensor analysis so that when you are in combat the more you have to decloak hitting a target within time to balance it out but by far my idea doesn't do anything like what sensor analysis does now and its just an idea which I hardly doubt cryptic would adopt due to the fact if anyone were to explain it they wouldn't understand they would just yell out its too OP even if it was perfectly balanced.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Oh I understood what you meant. Here's my point:

    A B'rel T5 who does not use torpedoes only so as to take advantage of the EBC but instead uses the bread 'n butter cannon+torpedo setup would end up with a very high bonus to its damage output when compared to other birds of prey...when its not even making use of the EBC's primary function: To re-cloak after firing torpedoes.

    That is why it would be very OP. A 'shield analysis' in PVP added on top of the KDF elite disruptor's 25% shield resist reduction could make any shields just melt with little to no effort.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    An interesting idea but you then make it rather OP for the non-EBC using birds of prey... a cannon decloak volley with such an ability could be devastating.

    I would propose a different solution: Have the battle cloak synergize with the systems it enables to fire without breaking the EBC. In essence, have the enhanced battle cloak provide a different 'ambush' bonus than the regular cloaks: 'Strike'


    'Strike' ambush bonus: 5 second duration after decloak, provides same dmg bonus as current ambush bonus plus it removes the torpedo global timer during the 5 seconds so all torps can fire at once.

    This way, the EBC functions perfectly for torpedoes which is the only weapon it benefits.

    This actually makes more sense that the op.

    I would also point out that the romulan ship with EBC was changed recently and only has 4 tac consoles now. http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=883911

    I also lol at the idea that the extra tac console makes your ship godly.
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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Oh I understood what you meant. Here's my point:

    A B'rel T5 who does not use torpedoes only so as to take advantage of the EBC but instead uses the bread 'n butter cannon+torpedo setup would end up with a very high bonus to its damage output when compared to other birds of prey...when its not even making use of the EBC's primary function: To re-cloak after firing torpedoes.

    That is why it would be very OP. A 'shield analysis' in PVP added on top of the KDF elite disruptor's 25% shield resist reduction could make any shields just melt with little to no effort.

    Yeah I was under the impression if they did make something like I was saying that it would only be active when you were in the EBC mode.

    The funny part though I looked at tribble and the Lt Commander KDF console ship if I am reading this right it has a shield destabilizer console that says that nearby hostile ships slowly lose shield health and the affected targets suffer a slight loss in shield power that doesn't increase over time and its a passive so its always on so you don't have to activate it/no cool down.

    So technically they already did what I was hoping for just in a different method. I'll probally buy that console and hope its decent and not nerfed too much when it comes out but i'd probally get that before romulan ships LOL. Yeah I understand where some ppl were coming from but this console is a better way to have the same purpose I was wanting accomplished.

    Edit: Yeah I was pretty sure a 5 tactical console wasn't gonna fly for long but that is okay I can see that since the b'rel only has 3 tactical. The biggest thing which I do not see a way to test is that new KDF console that seems like it could be the answer to be able to test its functionality.
  • travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Heh, the KDF Escort lineup is very badly outclassed right now. How many 5 TAC Console Escorts does the KDF have?

    Oh yeah.

    And BOPs in a number of PVP situations are a liability. The very nature of a proper "hit & run, recover, prepare for another attack" tactics that the BOP is built for makes them a problem when they leave you uncloaked and alone in a swarm of Feds.

    KDF Cruisers are actually quite fine, IMO, and in a better position overall than the Starfleet equivalents. But the Raptors and Destroyers are outclassed by Fed Escorts, and the BOP has lost quite a bit of lustre.

    Agreed, almost every one of our 'escorts' is basically left in the dust. In terms of Fleet-level ones, we have three to pick from and only one that really is a match for KDF escorts (Fleet Scourge). The others either have too low of a turnrate, or some other disadvantage due to the innate cloak (which isn't always the incredibly OP thing that Feddies like to claim). The BoPs are a different animal entirely due to the low stats and battlecloak, they're essential built to hit and run (which is why I feel their impulse mod should be buffed, at least).

    Our real strength is in battlecruisers and carriers, and the Feddies even whine and moan about THOSE, as if they didn't have enough ship advantages of their own (better escorts, and an actual science ship line).
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Our real strength is in battlecruisers and carriers, and the Feddies even whine and moan about THOSE, as if they didn't have enough ship advantages of their own (better escorts, and an actual science ship line).

    True enough words. Given that the feds "think" they are getting nothing in LoR, I'm not surprised the " Its OP!!" cry is going up like fireworks in the forums.
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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yeah some of the problems I have with our line up is we don't have too many of the alliance races ships for example the siphon pods are nausicaan tech but theres no nausicaan ships, gorn ships we only have the varanus but there are atleast 3 other types npcs have same with nausicaans as well as orions.

    They stated the negh'var retrofit will be coming but we still don't have an excelsior, vesta, kumari, etc equivalents. Then the issue of the 5 tactical console ships only one we have is that one bortasqu' which doesn't really count because the 2 fed ones are escorts major difference in strength of damage power. The other thing is that hoh'sus is our only bop with 4 tactical consoles and it looks ugly as hell is why I call it the Go'Kart class.

    Hopefully that one new console ship's special console is the answer for our EBC ships though its damn bad with all the sci powers out there to decloak a b'rel, not to mention if you are going after someone you have no shields at all with low hull so that thing better be decent but with the b'rel I honestly will give it a week or two before feds get their way and have it get nerfed like all our other consoles which were either nerfed or given away in lockboxes to the feds because its not fair if the KDF gets anything decent lol.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited May 2013
    Un-nerf transphasic torpedoes and/or remove reputation passives from PvP and B'Rel BoP are fine. Otherwise, they are just average.

    Alpha strikes almost never work 1 vs 1 unless the ship is heavily damage, buffs on cooldown or target is a noob. Btw, why in God's name would you alpha with B'Rel. They only have 3 tac consoles.

    Compare to Fed escorts <cough> Defiant </cough>, you are talking about missing 60% damage boost on base. Mk XII purple weapon console == 30% and Fleet definat has 5.
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  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    Un-nerf transphasic torpedoes and/or remove reputation passives from PvP and B'Rel BoP are fine. Otherwise, they are just average.

    Alpha strikes almost never work 1 vs 1 unless the ship is heavily damage, buffs on cooldown or target is a noob. Btw, why in God's name would you alpha with B'Rel. They only have 3 tac consoles.

    Compare to Fed escorts <cough> Defiant </cough>, you are talking about missing 60% damage boost on base. Mk XII purple weapon console == 30% and Fleet definat has 5.

    Bops are more about skill than stats.
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