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100 Shield Power with 100% uptime

mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvP Gameplay
I was doing some testing on Tribble before the patch, and I realized something:

It'll soon be very very easy to keep 100, or nearly 100 shield power with 100% uptime when LoR hits, if a person uses Nukara gear.

I looked at the space sets. The Nukara console gives a guaranteed +5 to shields, while the engines from the other said give a +5 (I think) to shields, along with an efficiancy bonus to shields on top of that (I was getting about a +4)

So that alone already is about a 14 bonus to shields before spec and other gear. Adding that in, and I was able to sit at about 77 shield power from a base shield power of only 35. I had max points in Warp Core Efficiency and Potential as well, so that also was adding to it. No points in Shield Performance though.

I added in a Warp Core that gave a guaranteed bonus to shield power, for another +4, putting me at 81 without using any buffs still.

When I did finally add in EPTS 1, I jumped up to about...116 or so shield power. I was on an engineer with points in EPS and the EPS manifold trait, so that made a difference.

However, even without those add-ons, that would still put most people pretty much at 100 power regardless.



So, what I can possibly see is people who equip the Nukara console and engines for a huge boost in shield power, followed by some kind of shield-boosting warp core (be it a flat bonus and/or an X->S bonus). Then add in an EPTS rotation keeping shield power at about 100, then add in an Elite Fleet shield on top of all that, followed by proccing shield heals.

Pretty much: Large regens, a higher constant resist (even without the shield resist stacks), plus all the possible proc heals.


Maybe I'm declaring 'doom and gloom' a bit early, but it's just something I wanted to share my observations of.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Post edited by mimey2 on

Comments

  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    How is this significant? I usually had like 92'ish on my bug just by rotating EptS1, not including the Maco shield +10 (5 stack)

    Am i missing something?
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • kalvorax#3775 kalvorax Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    dont forget about plasmonic leech for kdf side hhaha
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    How is this significant? I usually had like 92'ish on my bug just by rotating EptS1, not including the Maco shield +10 (5 stack)

    Am i missing something?

    Yes. Going from 92 to 102 has the same impact (rough estimate used to illustrate the point) as going from 87 to 92.

    Meaning shield power scales exponentially when you are talking about overall sustain, not necessarily EHP but sustain.

    TLDR: You thought fleet shields were bad? You ain't seen nothing yet! LOR will increase defenses big time.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Skills (including bonuses from gear/traits)
    6 Warp Core Efficiency (@114)
    6 Warp Core Potential (@94)
    6 Engine Performance (@84)
    6 Shield Performance (@84)
    3 Weapon Performance (@54)
    0 Auxiliary Performance (@0)

    The following is in a Tac Ody (only have it on Tribble) w/ +10 Weapon, +5 Shield, & +5 Auxiliary.
    Nukara Impulse +5 Shield, +2.5 Shield.
    Nukara +5 Shield.
    Borg +5 Weapon.
    0Point +1.8 All.
    OWA proc will give +10 Weapon.

    Balanced Power Levels
    Weapon: 82/50
    Shields: 87/50
    Engines: 70/50
    Auxiliary: 66/50

    Hit EPtW1
    105/50
    97/50
    80/50
    76/50

    Hit EPtS1
    115/50
    110/50
    80/50
    76/50

    The EPtS1 numbers above can be maintained with 100% uptime.

    Then, let's say you're KDF - add in Plasmonic Leech and AKHG Shields for the Conduits.

    Course, slap a -10 on each of those as you drop in a Warbird...but then add the +15 from building up your Singularity Core.

    That's before playing with any batteries, battery CD reduction DOFFs, Warp Core Engineers, RMCs, the new EIC, etc, etc, etc.

    Yeah, it's pretty easy to hit 4x 125 w/ Wep overcapped...for extended periods of time - with it not being that much lower for near 100% uptime.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I believe the isssue would be the fact that to attain those power levels requires no ivenstment of power to the shield system.

    So I could run at 100 shields and still have alot of power to put into weapons/engines/aux.


    This could be an issue for cruiser captains mostly as an escort could gain this kind of shielding and most cruisers would lack the ability to significantly damage it.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    bareel wrote: »
    Yes. Going from 92 to 102 has the same impact (rough estimate used to illustrate the point) as going from 87 to 92.

    Meaning shield power scales exponentially when you are talking about overall sustain, not necessarily EHP but sustain.

    TLDR: You thought fleet shields were bad? You ain't seen nothing yet! LOR will increase defenses big time.

    Its just more power creep, but it will crumble under focus fire all the same.


    For reference, I've run several builds that run 115 to 125 shield power.

    They are resilient, but they are not unkillable.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    NOTE: RECENT TESTING HAS SHOWN THAT EPTW IS NO LONGER A FINAL MODIFIER.
    I believe the isssue would be the fact that to attain those power levels requires no ivenstment of power to the shield system.

    So I could run at 100 shields and still have alot of power to put into weapons/engines/aux.

    This could be an issue for cruiser captains mostly as an escort could gain this kind of shielding and most cruisers would lack the ability to significantly damage it.

    Yep, even though I was going for one kind of extreme in my example above...for the Tac in an Escort that is perhaps not so concerned in the least by Aux - yeah, they're going to be able to overcap Wep and run both Shield/Engine higher than they can now.

    Course, though - we have to keep in mind that while we're looking at this possible/potential increase - there's also the change to EPtW where the +Dmg is 30s instead of 5s. It's a final modifier. The guy I normally test with has +10% from EPtW1. Unlike the other modifiers we have, the EPtW mod is a final mod. You actually multiply the numbers you see in your tooltips for energy weapons by it. So it's 1.1x the damage seen there. No complicated math needed. That +10% from the EPtW is better than the end result of adding a 5th +30% Tac Console would be...which is usually somewhere between +6-7%.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Yep, even though I was going for one kind of extreme in my example above...for the Tac in an Escort that is perhaps not so concerned in the least by Aux - yeah, they're going to be able to overcap Wep and run both Shield/Engine higher than they can now.

    Course, though - we have to keep in mind that while we're looking at this possible/potential increase - there's also the change to EPtW where the +Dmg is 30s instead of 5s. It's a final modifier. The guy I normally test with has +10% from EPtW1. Unlike the other modifiers we have, the EPtW mod is a final mod. You actually multiply the numbers you see in your tooltips for energy weapons by it. So it's 1.1x the damage seen there. No complicated math needed. That +10% from the EPtW is better than the end result of adding a 5th +30% Tac Console would be...which is usually somewhere between +6-7%.

    OFC this is only really an issue in pvp as most pve doesent really try vary hard to kill you.

    They should propably take another look at this before it goes live tho. And perhaps start looking into damage mechanics as often as the look into healing. Or at least look into the exotic damages and debuffs. Most of those arent really worth using and if they were it would balance out a little better.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Its just more power creep, but it will crumble under focus fire all the same.


    For reference, I've run several builds that run 115 to 125 shield power.

    They are resilient, but they are not unkillable.

    As I stated it has a major impact on sustain, not EHP. Meaning pressure damage gets weaker and burst becomes more important/required.
  • magnumoftheblackmagnumoftheblack Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I was doing some testing on Tribble before the patch, and I realized something:

    It'll soon be very very easy to keep 100, or nearly 100 shield power with 100% uptime when LoR hits, if a person uses Nukara gear.

    I looked at the space sets. The Nukara console gives a guaranteed +5 to shields, while the engines from the other said give a +5 (I think) to shields, along with an efficiancy bonus to shields on top of that (I was getting about a +4)

    So that alone already is about a 14 bonus to shields before spec and other gear. Adding that in, and I was able to sit at about 77 shield power from a base shield power of only 35. I had max points in Warp Core Efficiency and Potential as well, so that also was adding to it. No points in Shield Performance though.

    I added in a Warp Core that gave a guaranteed bonus to shield power, for another +4, putting me at 81 without using any buffs still.

    When I did finally add in EPTS 1, I jumped up to about...116 or so shield power. I was on an engineer with points in EPS and the EPS manifold trait, so that made a difference.

    However, even without those add-ons, that would still put most people pretty much at 100 power regardless.



    So, what I can possibly see is people who equip the Nukara console and engines for a huge boost in shield power, followed by some kind of shield-boosting warp core (be it a flat bonus and/or an X->S bonus). Then add in an EPTS rotation keeping shield power at about 100, then add in an Elite Fleet shield on top of all that, followed by proccing shield heals.

    Pretty much: Large regens, a higher constant resist (even without the shield resist stacks), plus all the possible proc heals.


    Maybe I'm declaring 'doom and gloom' a bit early, but it's just something I wanted to share my observations of.

    I wouldn't worry about it. Tac officers will find a way to get it nerfed.
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Bah, shields are useless against me!

    *Whistles while dusting plasma and transphasic torps*

    Joking aside, resistances are pretty high as it is. Hopefully, there will be a corresponding increase in damage that can balance this off. We can only wait and see, though. It might not be quite as bad as we think.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    just remember guys!

    they completely nerf'd/made useless the +power consoles in the engineering slots because they didnt want people to run around with high power all the time.


    just remember that.
    scurry5 wrote: »

    Joking aside, resistances are pretty high as it is. Hopefully, there will be a corresponding increase in damage that can balance this off. We can only wait and see, though. It might not be quite as bad as we think.

    i hope thats a joke. if they increase damage because they increased resistances the player gap will be even higher because if damage is just "generally" increased itll make spike damage more important then it already is, which if i remember correctly is counter-productive to what they told us a while back....

    of course it is cryptic....
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Keep in mind there are the new warpcores. Some combinations can easily give you +9 to shields, or allowing 130 cap.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • abyssinainabyssinain Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Its the warp-cores.

    My build in tribble has 120 weapons, 95 shields, 50 engines, and 98 aux 100% of the time thanks to stacking set buffs, skills, and EPtS chaining.

    Its fantastic for science.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I think I have managed 125 weapons, 130 shields, and 100 aux on my tribble galaxy. 2 piece adapted maco,maco shields, tholian rep console tec.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • wildweasalwildweasal Member Posts: 1,053 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I believe the isssue would be the fact that to attain those power levels requires no ivenstment of power to the shield system.

    So I could run at 100 shields and still have alot of power to put into weapons/engines/aux.


    This could be an issue for cruiser captains mostly as an escort could gain this kind of shielding and most cruisers would lack the ability to significantly damage it.

    imagine what it would do to my zombie cruiser
    3ondby_zpsikszslyx.jpg
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    scurry5 wrote: »
    Bah, shields are useless against me!

    *Whistles while dusting plasma and transphasic torps*

    Joking aside, resistances are pretty high as it is. Hopefully, there will be a corresponding increase in damage that can balance this off. We can only wait and see, though. It might not be quite as bad as we think.

    It's, um, 30s of the EPtW damage boost instead of just 5s...does that count?
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    just remember guys!

    they completely nerf'd/made useless the +power consoles in the engineering slots because they didnt want people to run around with high power all the time.


    just remember that.



    i hope thats a joke. if they increase damage because they increased resistances the player gap will be even higher because if damage is just "generally" increased itll make spike damage more important then it already is, which if i remember correctly is counter-productive to what they told us a while back....

    of course it is cryptic....

    *Mulls it over a bit more*


    You do have a pretty good point there. Nevertheless, I'm going with a wait and see on this one. When I experiment on Holodeck, getting shield energy above 80-90 is a fairly simple matter, even on an escort. The difference may not be as great as we may think. Furthermore, the benefits to other EP abilities may mean a slight falling off in those using EPtS.


    When you think about it, though, it is kinda ridiculous that set items and universal consoles give more additional power to subsystems than consoles dedicated to boosting power.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    bareel wrote: »
    As I stated it has a major impact on sustain, not EHP. Meaning pressure damage gets weaker and burst becomes more important/required.


    Except you can actually kill targets without massive spike anyway.
  • abyssinainabyssinain Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    I think I have managed 125 weapons, 130 shields, and 100 aux on my tribble galaxy. 2 piece adapted maco,maco shields, tholian rep console tec.

    How'd you manage that? I have 2 pc adapted maco, with the tholian rep, but instead of maco I have elite fleet shields.
  • disposeableh3r0disposeableh3r0 Member Posts: 1,927 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    abyssinain wrote: »
    How'd you manage that? I have 2 pc adapted maco, with the tholian rep, but instead of maco I have elite fleet shields.

    The maco shield proc add energy when your under fire.
    As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?

    Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln

    Occidere populo et effercio confractus
  • edited May 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    One theory, untested that I know, is that the Leech is busted.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    One theory, untested that I know, is that the Leech is busted.

    In what way?
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    In what way?

    Being untested, I uave no idea. Some new to using it have claimed ot was responsible for such high power levels as stated in here but there is no concrete proof to it and I think Leech is working fine.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    Being untested, I uave no idea. Some new to using it have claimed ot was responsible for such high power levels as stated in here but there is no concrete proof to it and I think Leech is working fine.

    I think leach is working as Cryptic intends it to.

    I do have to say one console that gives you +16 power to 4 systems for a total of 64 power... does seem a bit off in general though. lol
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I think leach is working as Cryptic intends it to.

    I do have to say one console that gives you +16 power to 4 systems for a total of 64 power... does seem a bit off in general though. lol

    As long as its a passive derived from having to shoot alot to stack it to cap in combat plus be skilled in Flow Cap, Im not too concerned as ones life is always next to forfiet in combat as it is.. That +16 seems only to be a slight advantage since pratically anyone can have it now.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
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