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Will rep system essentiually be downfall of pvp?

srspellssrspells Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited April 2013 in PvP Gameplay
http://i.imgur.com/oPMdcKt.png
thats the nakura rep.


and with all the buffs / nerf to shields will this turn the game sideways a bit.

I mean we logically have to think more rep with more abilitys are coming out.

Is It To Much?

-Spells
|| Open Door Policy ||
| Dues Ex Mechina |
Fleet Leader
Post edited by srspells on
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Comments

  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    lol its fallen so deep already. systems latest strikes of genius are bad jokes beating a dead horse
  • srspellssrspells Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I mean dont get me wrong i will always spend money it just seems like thier needing some serious testers.
    -Spells
    || Open Door Policy ||
    | Dues Ex Mechina |
    Fleet Leader
  • hurleybirdhurleybird Member Posts: 909
    edited April 2013
    The only passive that looks game breaking to me is the last one, for the obvious reason that you can use it as an AOE insta-pop if all five team mates activate it at the same time.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    so....

    an always on extra better dem or 5% extra hull? thats a no brainer if i understood it right.

    2.5% of (on average) 3k hits from dhc is what....? more then needed?

    also...


    MOAR FREE EXTRA POWA!

    werent they just ******** not too long ago about how easy it was to get power?

    and LOL wow... so a cpb extra strength (since its not reduced by power insulators)....


    i so cant wait to see the next rep tree to see how they top this pile of poo.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • praxi5praxi5 Member Posts: 1,562 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Nah, I don't think so. These look (at a first glance) relatively tame compared to the horrid power creep that was introduced with Omega/Romulan Rep.
    hurleybird wrote: »
    The only passive that looks game breaking to me is the last one, for the obvious reason that you can use it as an AOE insta-pop if all five team mates activate it at the same time.

    Is it any different than a coordinated 5-Man Iso Charge though? It does less damage.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Its not that any one of these are bad, but rather that anybody who wants to PVP will be required to have them just to be on the same level as everybody else. It raises the bar to entry yet again.
  • twamtwam Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    You know what? I'm going to reserve judgement on that one for now, until I fight players all kitted out with these.

    So far, using non-rep characters in pvp is still perfectly viable, in my experience - once they fixed the bogus shield boost that one of these t4's gave. Even when I am thoroughly outgeared, it's mostly the elite fleet shields that flatline my attacks.

    Sure, they're more unstrippable bonuses that you get without sacrificing for elsewhere, but they're not massive, per se. They look like the kind of thing that might, just might, tip the balance in situations where 2 exactly identically skilled captains fly exactly identically outfitted identical ships - how often does that happen anyway?
  • srspellssrspells Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Very valid points guys yeah this is just a discussion, im kinda on fence, I just dont want power creeps real bad.
    -Spells
    || Open Door Policy ||
    | Dues Ex Mechina |
    Fleet Leader
  • shockwave85shockwave85 Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    PvP isn't as much an issue, at least not yet. Those of us currently playing will all keep up with the rep systems and all be on even playing field. The shield ignoring passives from Omega and Nukara reps can only help with the absurd levels of shield damage resist we're seeing. New players might have a problem as more and more reps come online. It'll just be crazy trying to grind them all out at once.

    The bigger issue I think is PvE, honestly. Just look at how even half assed PUGs can faceroll an ESTF with all their top end gear and rep powers. ISE is barely even challenging anymore. Even if somebody pops a generator early, we still melt the transformer faster than the spheres can get there. Also, look at how fast the CE is going down. It took people a few days to get used to the mission, but now it's like child's play. If we keep having this power creep, even the game's hardest content is going to be way too easy.
    ssog-maco-sig.jpg
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    The reputation system overall is yet again a big issue for PvP overall.

    First of all because the passives you can choose for each Tier are again far from balanced. The 750 Damage proc versus Shield proc for instance is just absurdly unbalanced.

    And no balance brings bad builds into PvP if the new guy chooses to pick the weakest 'passives'.


    Furthermore I think every time they add a new reputation system it widens the gap between long term PvPers and newcomers even more.

    Yes, Repu system gives the player an advantage, and this advantage is only going to increase between people that finished the repu and the ones that still have to start with it.

    The only way to get rid of these negative effects is to significantly shorten the time required to get the reputation system up in tier, and balance these passives better.
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Another way to limit the affect is to impose hard caps on boosts, so that player can choose between rep vs skill vs items vs whatever but will still have the same limit. At some point doing rep for stat boost becomes irrelevant and you do it for items which also become irrelevant, because you're maxed on everything.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    that stuff doesn't look horrible. an always on dem like thing, that instead of depositing a set amount of extra damage, adds an extra % of shield penetration. certainly a lot better then that shield penetrate borg rep thing.

    skill buffs based on your aux level? this ones for you sci ship, enjoy. the tier 4 rep is pretty worthless for all my AtB users.

    that AOE thing, at least its just damage, and not something more dangerous. this is proboly only going to be slightly more dangerous then the plasma shockwave


    eh, none of this stuff looks nearly as required as the borg and rom stuff. wonder about the sets and weapons and gear in this rep though...
  • drkfrontiersdrkfrontiers Member Posts: 2,477 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    For what it's worth, I think that the reputation systems altogether push new players that are without the rep. gear and/ or abilities further and further from enjoying PvP.

    Even before the rep. system when it was just around the gear there was a problem with new players that just could not compete against players that have been playing for over 2 years and decked-out with the very best their time had afforded them.

    Now add all the reputations gear, SB elite gear, Doffs, etc, and I would hate to be new to Star Trek Online and wanting to participate and enjoy PvP.
  • shockwave85shockwave85 Member Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I actually think it's better to be a newbie now. When I first started, the only weapons in the game worth a damn in PvP were obscenely expensive Mk XII purples on the exchange. You could use [Borg] weapons, but you wasted a proc, and even those came from a sort of random drop. The game's best gear was based on random Borg Tech drops. Trying to gear up to be competitive in PvP was a daunting task with no set way to measure progress or know when you'd be done.

    Now, you look at your fleet stores and your reps, you target what you want for your build, and you go after it with a fixed and stable amount of investment required to get it.
    ssog-maco-sig.jpg
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited April 2013
    I foresee even more AMS usage with that T5 ability.

    I hardly use it in PvP anymore, but I may have to break it out again.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    A Recluse with an Alien Engineer (8 space traits including the two new Eng traits with some random ground trait).

    Enhanced Shield Systems
    Emergency Secondary Shielding
    Quantum Singularity Manipulation
    Hull-Repairing Nanites
    Superior Shield Repair
    Fortified Hull
    Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense
    MACO Mk XII Shields
    MACO Mk XII Engine

    Elite Fleet Fermion Deflector Mk XII [Flow][Ins][Eng][SciCdr]
    Romulan Emitter Array Mk XII [ShH]
    Romulan Emitter Array Mk XII [HuH]

    2x Field Generator Mk XII
    2x Neutronium Mk XII
    2x SIF Generator Mk XII
    Assimilated Module
    Omega Torp
    Cutting Beam

    Resonance Cascade Modulator
    Armored Shield Repair Units
    Warp Core Engineer (ExS)
    2x Shield Distribution Officers (BFI)
    2x Damage Control Engineers (AtS)


    Thoughts?

    Perhaps two...switching out the Eng for Sci Captains for the 135 arc SNB?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    shookyang wrote: »
    I foresee even more AMS usage with that T5 ability.

    I hardly use it in PvP anymore, but I may have to break it out again.

    Can you imagine the trolling that will take place in various content with AMS/Scramble and ISO/Cascades?
  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Really, new ones have better? When I started to PvP there was still the Aegis vs Borg vs blue/purple Mk XI gear discussion going on. You could get your gear in 3 ways (craft, STF, Ker'rat) or grind EC and buy it from Exchange. There was no Fleet stuff, no reputation stuff (two reputations now), no embasy... No DOFFs - yet another thing to grind and play catch on with the old players.

    No, new players don't have it better. They have far, far worse then ever. And with each new big update, or new season or whatever super event they launch - it will be only worse.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Really, new ones have better? When I started to PvP there was still the Aegis vs Borg vs blue/purple Mk XI gear discussion going on. You could get your gear in 3 ways (craft, STF, Ker'rat) or grind EC and buy it from Exchange. There was no Fleet stuff, no reputation stuff (two reputations now), no embasy... No DOFFs - yet another thing to grind and play catch on with the old players.

    No, new players don't have it better. They have far, far worse then ever. And with each new big update, or new season or whatever super event they launch - it will be only worse.

    Pretty much this. The investment continues to grow - both financially and with regard to time. Used to be that you could roll a new toon and be ready for action within a week or less. Yeah, that's not the case now...
  • beefsupreme79beefsupreme79 Member Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    the point is there is too many rep chains already, grinding 3 simultaneously on a new toon is going to be hell and turn players away from pvp and maybe the game in general
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Well it wasn't that long ago that bort asked us our opinions on turning things off in pvp.

    I remember almost everyone said no no don't do that.

    Well frankly consider how balanced pvp would be if....

    All rep was shut off.

    The P2W consoles I can deal with.... the Doff system I in fact like for the most part....

    What breaks balance as I see it is ... Rep passive and active skills... and reputation earned gear.

    I would suggest.... shutting off All PvE rep and rep items like omega torps / rom torps / cutting beams / embassy consoles in PvP. (the older stf gear like borg sets maco and khg... I'm torn on there part of pvp but do they need to be ? would any of us cry if no one could use them ? )

    Take PvP rep... and DO NOT EVEN think about adding passive bonuses or active skills to it at all....

    Simply use PvP rep points to unlock a way to earn the PvE ship sets (ie maco / khg / borg) and perhaps some BALANCED weapons... as in [acc]x2 [crth]... something like that no extra procs or extra mods just half decent purple weapons.

    This way completely 100% new players that have been level 50 for 2 days can que up and be equal in terms of gear and equipment to long time pvp players. So they won't play 2 matches and run away never to return... or at least they won't be able to point at the gear / rep and say see got no chance no fun see ya.

    It would also give people a good reason to grind pvp instead of pve... the rep shouldn't be faster to earn then the pve rep honestly... but fast enough that after a month or so you should be able to grab at least mk xi versions of the STF style gear. (if it was staying in... if not... why not add Hyper [turn]x3 engines... good non fleet deflectors ect.)

    The weapon sets... make them expensive who cares... make 3 nights of pvping only = a enough points for a few weapons... at least there would be that end of added reward. However healing and dmg would both go down a bit... and in pvp land almost everyone would be much happier.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited April 2013
    My fleetmate brought a point that I hadn't thought about regarding that permanent DEM.

    It's essentially adding to bleedthrough, no?

    That is to say, 7.5% bleedthrough (against a Resilient Shield) and 12.5% bleedthrough (against everything else).

    Is that correct?
  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I remember almost everyone said no no don't do that.

    It does not suprise me. The most vocal part is also most hipocrytic one (at least most of them).

    Lockbox ships - oh, how bad they are, Cryptic done it this time, ruined the PvP... And then - run for it, buy keys, grind EC, we NEED those ships!
    Reputation - oh, how bad, those passives will ruin PvP, it's the end... And then - grind it, we need those passive, grind grind grind...

    I'm not suprised that they say "no" to the idea of disabling them in PvP.

    I need to jump in my little T2 cruiser and hunt down some Klinks. I hope those low level rerolls and newbs wont run from me today.
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    the point is there is too many rep chains already, grinding 3 simultaneously on a new toon is going to be hell and turn players away from pvp and maybe the game in general

    nukara rep system will be released at the same date with romulans.People will have to choose between romulans or grind for their older toons.No idea where or what is fun in that but must be...they are "experts" lol
  • dilbartdilbart Member Posts: 33 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Pretty much this. The investment continues to grow - both financially and with regard to time. Used to be that you could roll a new toon and be ready for action within a week or less. Yeah, that's not the case now...

    This is my main gripe about the game.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • chandlerasharichandlerashari Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I think eventually, eventually theyre gonna limit the amount of rep bonuses you can carry... coz lets say in the next 2 years there's gonna be 4 "updates" (whethere seasons or expansions) w 4 "reps", can you imagine someone carrying 7x4 passives and 7x1 Click powers?

    They'll HAVE to have like a Rep Bonus slot so you can only carry a portion of what you have earned.

    I dunno thats just IMO.
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Really, new ones have better? When I started to PvP there was still the Aegis vs Borg vs blue/purple Mk XI gear discussion going on. You could get your gear in 3 ways (craft, STF, Ker'rat) or grind EC and buy it from Exchange. There was no Fleet stuff, no reputation stuff (two reputations now), no embasy... No DOFFs - yet another thing to grind and play catch on with the old players.

    No, new players don't have it better. They have far, far worse then ever. And with each new big update, or new season or whatever super event they launch - it will be only worse.

    There basically will be a point where its just not even practical to get up to par with the older PvPers anymore so PvP will eventually die... Just my thought.
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I would suggest.... shutting off All PvE rep and rep items like omega torps / rom torps / cutting beams / embassy consoles in PvP.
    It's not just rep gear though its also fleet gear and some c-store/lobi items and some lockboxes and ...

    Its the modifiers that have to be capped, origin means nothing
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    There basically will be a point where its just not even practical to get up to par with the older PvPers anymore so PvP will eventually die... Just my thought.

    I would politely disagree (please do not challenge me to a duel to prove your point :P). I think nothing will change. Pugs will be Pugs, premades will avoid premades, premades will stomp pugs. That is basically the pvp we have atm. With some mythical premade vs premade matches happening once per lunar cycle.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    I would politely disagree (please do not challenge me to a duel to prove your point :P). I think nothing will change. Pugs will be Pugs, premades will avoid premades, premades will stomp pugs. That is basically the pvp we have atm. With some mythical premade vs premade matches happening once per lunar cycle.

    I challenge you to a duel in Tufflis with Eng captains. Er, can you buy my Eng a Tuffli first though? :P
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