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RCS changes

naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited May 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Shameless pseudo-crosspost:
The RCS Accelerator change will benefit any ship that uses a RCS Accelerator, it's just a larger boost to slower ships (compared to previously).

Before, faster ships were actually getting a larger percentage of their turn rate buffed - not just a larger number, but a larger percentage. With my change, slower ships will get a larger percentage of their turn rate increased, but faster ships will still get a larger numeric boost in total.

In all cases, this is a buff; even fast ships will still be getting a larger turn rate bonus from these consoles than they previously did.

What if this console reduced the difference between the starting turn rate of the ship and some theoretical max? (Say, 22?)

Then slow turners would benefit a lot, but Bugs would barely benefit.

If it is a buff to all ships, then some escorts will become insane.
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Post edited by naevius on
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Comments

  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It looks like every change in STO must end as a buff for escorts.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Given the mechanical structure of the game, where every ship has about 6-8 guns, and otherwise identical stats, except Escorts have better stats, why is it surprising that just about any change benefits Escorts more and hurts Escorts less?

    Let's face it: Even if you buffed beams to the point where they were better than cannons, you'd just stick the same beams on Escorts and be better again still. Short of creating unique mechanics that apply specifically only to non-Escortesques, such as items that ONLY Cruisers or Science Ships can use, Escorts can simply do just about everything PvE-relevant better. The new EPTS changes, for instance, make cruisers completely obsolete, while actually making escorts better! If you want the ponderous yet powerful feel that Cruiser gameplay fails to deliver on? Fly a carrier.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    A Mk XII purple RCS is currently a 40% boost, IIRC. If we took a ship with a turn rate of 6 and applied the same percentage to (22 - 6 = 16), we would get 6.4 for a total of 12.4. Pretty good! But a Bug would get 0.8 for a total of 20.8.

    If necessary, you set an upper limit of benefit of, say 5. Then our initial ship would go to only 11. Or, restrict the total gain to 100% of the initial turn rate.
    _________________________________________________
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  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    It looks like every change in STO must end as a buff for escorts.


    It looks like every change in STO must come with people crying about Escorts, even when those changes bring good things for everyone. :P


    If you're so at the end of your rope with this game's direction that something so promising as RCS changes giving a much larger boost to Cruiser turn rates than they give now still sees you instead posting negatively about Escorts, you might need a short break from the game bud.
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Worth noting is that turn rate already has an inherent diminishing return to it: If you can pull a 180 faster than your guns can cycle, more just makes your ship harder to control, and at some point your turn rate can be considered to be on-a-dime, and more is simply superfluous and doesn't improve your performance.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It looks like every change in STO must come with people crying about Escorts, even when those changes bring good things for everyone. :P


    If you're so at the end of your rope with this game's direction that something so promising as RCS changes giving a much larger boost to Cruiser turn rates than they give now still sees you instead posting negatively about Escorts, you might need a short break from the game bud.

    As long as you can preach and lecture others about premade in half of your post, I'm free to voice my concers about anything. I do not think escorts as they are, need more bonuses to turn.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • darkfader1988darkfader1988 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    naevius wrote: »
    Shameless pseudo-crosspost:



    What if this console reduced the difference between the starting turn rate of the ship and some theoretical max? (Say, 22?)

    Then slow turners would benefit a lot, but Bugs would barely benefit.

    If it is a buff to all ships, then some escorts will become insane.

    Yet too much turn rate and it becomes overkill, at some point the increased advantage is just too low to justify.

    I personally think its a good change. <3 for the cruisers, although i never fly one myself :)
    MT - Sad Pandas
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    RCS consoles should provide serious benefits to the ships that need them (since they come with a high opportunity cost,) while being pointless on ships that already turn well.
    _________________________________________________
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  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It looks like every change in STO must come with people crying about Escorts, even when those changes bring good things for everyone. :P


    hey now ,you know that everyone wants cruisers with escort turn rate and damage ,but with cruiser tanking and if possible (thou Kirks wont use it) heals. :rolleyes:

    even in the movies cruisers were flawed (really stupid to send Enterprise D to fight ).They were designed to have families on board ,not for war.Its like asking the US army/navy to send a trans atlantic ocean liner to fight in a war...sure the chef on board it will be happy.

    .
    cruisers are for exploration in star trek movie.In game they should scan for data samples in nebulas :P
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    As long as you can preach and lecture others about premade in half of your post, I'm free to voice my concers about anything. I do not think escorts as they are, need more bonuses to turn.
    naevius wrote: »
    RCS consoles should provide serious benefits to the ships that need them (since they come with a high opportunity cost,) while being pointless on ships that already turn well.


    And I'll counter both of you that turning in a Cruiser is a quality of life issue. (and I'm glad it's being addressed, it will also be nice for my DKora).

    What do you need to turn better if you have a 180/360 or 250 degree arc?


    So tell me what does a Fed Cruiser need more turn for that is more important than your team's escorts needing it to actually do the one single thing they are designed for?
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    And I'll counter both of you that turning in a Cruiser is a quality of life issue. (and I'm glad it's being addressed, it will also be nice for my DKora).

    What do you need to turn better if you have a 180/360 or 250 degree arc?


    So tell me what does a Fed Cruiser need more turn for that is more important than your team's escorts needing it to actually do the one single thing they are designed for?

    Do not cloud the issue. I didn't say anything about RCS affecting cruiser (everyone agrees they need more turn). I said, escorts do not need more turn via this change. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Also, beam array broadside is 70 degree....and It doesn't look like escorts have particulary hard time to avoid that.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited April 2013
    will this change also be for the tachyokinetic converter?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    @rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
    @rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
    @rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
  • mrkollinsmrkollins Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Yay Cruisers!
    Division Hispana
    www.divisionhispana.com
  • webdeathwebdeath Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    So tell me what does a Fed Cruiser need more turn for that is more important than your team's escorts needing it to actually do the one single thing they are designed for?

    Subnucleonic Beam.. :P
    You think that your beta test was bad?
    Think about this:
    American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    webdeath wrote: »
    Subnucleonic Beam.. :P

    Honestly that's the best answer there could be.

    But that's a Sci captain issue, and not specific to cruisers. ;)
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Escorts will only see a turn rate increase of 2 or 3 if they are doing what I think they are saying they did. Really it will be minor.

    Cruisers however can rejoice that the math no longer intentionally ... screws them.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    webdeath wrote: »
    Subnucleonic Beam.. :P

    Jump console timers line up nicely. Just sayin.

    Anyway, Tea, are you as pumped as I am that a DHC Kar'fi might be able to line somebody up? Now we just need a fleet version.
    _______________
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  • webdeathwebdeath Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    redricky wrote: »
    Jump console timers line up nicely. Just sayin.

    Anyway, Tea, are you as pumped as I am that a DHC Kar'fi might be able to line somebody up? Now we just need a fleet version.

    But.. my DHC Kar'fi on Teapower already works well enough.. and I only have 2 Engineering Slots dern it.. :( I need those for armorz to combat the haxorz Escorts and their Pew Pew boom booms..
    You think that your beta test was bad?
    Think about this:
    American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pokersmith1pokersmith1 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    adrianm63 wrote: »
    hey now ,you know that everyone wants cruisers with escort turn rate and damage ,but with cruiser tanking and if possible (thou Kirks wont use it) heals. :rolleyes:

    even in the movies cruisers were flawed (really stupid to send Enterprise D to fight ).They were designed to have families on board ,not for war.Its like asking the US army/navy to send a trans atlantic ocean liner to fight in a war...sure the chef on board it will be happy.

    .
    cruisers are for exploration in star trek movie.In game they should scan for data samples in nebulas :P

    This is outrageous!!
    The plural form of nebula is nebulae. The cruisers should scan for data samples in nebulae, mkay? Not nebulas.

    /rant. :P
    Elite Defense Starfleet
    Elite Defense Stovokor
  • webdeathwebdeath Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Hmm.. I wonder how much of a turn rate buff Science ships like the Neb00bula will get from those... I'm sure Maikai might like that Idea.. :D
    You think that your beta test was bad?
    Think about this:
    American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I think you will still get better result in Vesta.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • shookyangshookyang Member Posts: 1,122
    edited April 2013
    naevius wrote: »
    Shameless pseudo-crosspost:



    What if this console reduced the difference between the starting turn rate of the ship and some theoretical max? (Say, 22?)

    Then slow turners would benefit a lot, but Bugs would barely benefit.

    If it is a buff to all ships, then some escorts will become insane.
    I can't seem to find the original thread regarding this.

    Could you link the original post?
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Buried deep in here, or use the dev tracker:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=624851
    _________________________________________________
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  • pokersmith1pokersmith1 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    shookyang wrote: »
    I can't seem to find the original thread regarding this.

    Could you link the original post?

    This post.
    Elite Defense Starfleet
    Elite Defense Stovokor
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Its time to just reboot all cruisers and carriers with +3 turn rate. Either that or take -3 from the Escorts (BoP included), but I think game play would be improved by giving the bigger ships better maneuverability.

    Long-term, we need to rebalance ship physics around mass
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  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    My Battle Cruiser looks forward to this change.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    webdeath wrote: »
    Hmm.. I wonder how much of a turn rate buff Science ships like the Neb00bula will get from those... I'm sure Maikai might like that Idea.. :D
    I've never had any issues with the turn rate of any science ship I've flown.

    I'm indifferent to the RCS thing. I don't fly cruisers (galx aside for fun) and escorts I find turn too fast for my play style.


    The only way to get me bad into this game is to actually make it fun an not have science powers be so damn useless or out done by stupid p2w consoles.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
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