I finally decided to try out that Bortasque three pack I bought awhile back and I ended up running the Tactical Bortasque with my underused Engineering Captain.
The Bortasque itself is quite the piloting challenge and this is coming from a primary Carrier Pilot.
I was hoping to get some build advice to help my learning curb with the Bortasque go a bit smother.
I like I said I'm using the vessel with my underused Engineering Captain so I do not have a lot of great gear to use with it ATM.
I'll list my current build but again I'm working with what I had on hand or what I could buy with EC.
Forward weapons: (VR) Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII x3 and VR Quantum Torpedo Mk XI
AFT weapons: (VR) Disruptor Turret Mk XII x4
Deflector: Aegis
Engines: Borg
Shields: Aegis
Devices: Red Matter Capacitor, Subspace Field Modulator, Weapons Battery and Shields Battery
Consoles:
Tactical: (R) Disruptor Induction Coil Mk XI x5
Engineering: Auto Cannon, Subspace Jump, Borg and Leach
Science: (R) Field Generator Mk XI
Boff Slots:
Commander Engineering: eptw1, atd1, et3 and asif3
Universal Lt. Commander: epts1, rsp1 and epts3
Lt. Tactical: ts1 and crf1
Universal Ensign: tt1
Lt. Science: tss1 and tbr1
Space Duty Officers:
(VR) Maintenance Engineer x2
(VR) Warp Core Engineer
(R) Damage Control Engineer x2
The theme that I'm trying to go with in this build is survivability with seemingly unlimited power.
The big problem that I'm having is that I have to really throttle back on the engines in this thing because of its inertia and turning in reverse seems much harder here than it is in my Vo'Quv.
Overall I can take quite the punch but my damage seems nonexistence.
I believe that my problem with damage is distance to the target.
I try to keep myself out about 5k from my targets so that I can reposition myself if needed but I think that causes my cannon damage to suffer.
Sadly ,mate.. that is one thing you gotta get used.. flying the Borta is gonna be kinda similiar to flying the Vo'Quv.. but it all depends on your setup.
My Engineer uses the Engineering Borta but it surprising puts out decent damage. I cant show you stuff that I use on my Borta and the unique setup may inspire you...
And I'm not bluffing.. I do elite STFs with the gear below.. I've pugged Infected and Khitomer with it.. and haven't died if you don't count the invisi torps..
Why the above choice of weapons?:
Well, the main thing with the Borta is the turn rate. So I figured: Why turn?
Although you still have to manuver very slightly with the setup above, you'll notice most of the arcs are covered by beam array and cannon.
Sorry pal, you gotta convince your heart and let it know you aren't a DPS guy, you're here to do -decent- damage but tank when needed, and basically have ur weapons running at the same time. This keeps your weapons running even when you turn.
My Impulse/Deflector/Shields - are very rare stuff all off exchange. The shield is a very rare resilient [Cap]x2 [Pla].
It's a new eng character.. I'm working on reputation so this is what is holding me.. granted with this gear my tanking effort is more (by that i mean I run doffs to really cool down my BO timers.. I cannot afford extensive timing.. these shields despite the description are tissue and I need my BO abilities constant to keep it running, else I'm pretty much 2 shotted to death... this will not be the case if I get Adapted KHG shields though.)
Engineering slot:
2x very rare Neutronium Mk XI
1x Very rare Electroceramic Mk XI
1x Very Rare Monatanium Mk XI
HoH'Sus BoP Separation Console.
Science slot: 1x Rare Field Generator
Tactical slot:
3x Very rare Disruptor Mk XI
1x Auto canon fire console
Inertia Complaint: Aye.. I feel you. But what I do is I'm used to it now.. I hit full impulse and slow it down way before I'm at weapons range (around 15 km of target) and let this inertia carry me into the main weapons range.... once in there.. I re-engage my impuse engines at a 0.5 or sometimes at 1.. I keep varying it between 0-1.5 impulse. When I wanna do huge turn arounds, like 90 degree or 180 degree, I increase it to 5-6 impulse and decrease it again.
Recommended BO layout for your Tac Borta: The below is a recommended BO layout for your Tactical Borta, this is not my setup, since I actually run the Engineering Borta (Bortasqu' War Command Cruiser)... so play around with your ship.. and I hope you find this comfy... if not.. well.. I tried atleast!
As for survivability, on my main character I run the tactical Borta.. and it uses this setup above.. and I do more than just survive xD.. on an engineering character I'm damn sure it could do way better.
Unless running AP than 4 AP DHC ACC 2 CrtH (Fleet)
Rears I use 2 beam arrays, 2 turrets. depending on mood/known players I'll be going up against, replace 1 turret, and 1 beam array with 1 Tric Mine, and 1 Quantum mine launcher. (Tac Escort Refits die rather fast when they make a bad attack run)
Subspace Jump, and Subspace Snare, are both great for it. Puts the target in front of you on both occasions.
Grab a Stealth Field Generator mk 12 VR, it'll help with cloaked Alphas.
Also, get a Rom BOff that boosts your cloaking Alpha.
If you aren't using canons there is no point to flyi g one.
Subspace jump and ship console with an omega set is good enough. Add an evasive boff and lots of deuterium and you should be smokin'.
Add aux to space dampeners (if memory serves) and or emergency to engines and you will be flying an escort (that glides a lot).
Good move to remember is to go in reverse during an evasive and turn.
But again like you said you will have a hard time flying this.
If you aren't using canons there is no point to flyi g one.
Subspace jump and ship console with an omega set is good enough. Add an evasive boff and lots of deuterium and you should be smokin'.
Add aux to space dampeners (if memory serves) and or emergency to engines and you will be flying an escort (that glides a lot).
Good move to remember is to go in reverse during an evasive and turn.
But again like you said you will have a hard time flying this.
Nice to see another player who's got a brain for this ship. :cool:
If you aren't using canons there is no point to flyi g one.
Subspace jump and ship console with an omega set is good enough. Add an evasive boff and lots of deuterium and you should be smokin'.
Add aux to space dampeners (if memory serves) and or emergency to engines and you will be flying an escort (that glides a lot).
Good move to remember is to go in reverse during an evasive and turn.
But again like you said you will have a hard time flying this.
Interesting input. Not a fan of snare or subspace but I will definitely pop in the Omega gear and the emergency to engines and see how it goes..
Btw.. is Omega good for survival? I do have an Omega set on a Fed.. but I've never ever used it honestly.
I retrospect I think I will just go with the Engineering Bortasque, I think the lore of 5 tactical console slots kind of blinded me to what my role in most combat situations will be has an Engineer.
Going with Dual Cannons will help hide my inability to turn somewhat; however, dropping eptw and going with epte might help with bringing the bigger guns to bear.
I'll most likely role with 3 Tactical Consoles and the Auto Cannon Console in my Tac slots so I can squeeze a bit more defense out of my Engineering slots.
I've only be using the Bortasque for the last few days and I keep telling myself that the hook for this vessel should have been that it came with one Hanger bay that could support up to Two BOP and had all the Hanger Commands.
A Vessel the size of the Bortasque could have easily been a full Carrier so the fact that it had a single hanger that could support up to two frigate sized vessels would not have been much of a stretch.
Has anyone else noticed that the Snare Console seems to work on the Crystalline Entity?
It might have just been my error but I used the Snare on the Entity from about 6K out and it appeared to move in to the 4k rang after the skill went into cool down.
All I need now is to enroll in the school for Bortasque piloting :P
I retrospect I think I will just go with the Engineering Bortasque, I think the lore of 5 tactical console slots kind of blinded me to what my role in most combat situations will be has an Engineer.
Going with Dual Cannons will help hide my inability to turn somewhat; however, dropping eptw and going with epte might help with bringing the bigger guns to bear.
I'll most likely role with 3 Tactical Consoles and the Auto Cannon Console in my Tac slots so I can squeeze a bit more defense out of my Engineering slots.
I've only be using the Bortasque for the last few days and I keep telling myself that the hook for this vessel should have been that it came with one Hanger bay that could support up to Two BOP and had all the Hanger Commands.
A Vessel the size of the Bortasque could have easily been a full Carrier so the fact that it had a single hanger that could support up to two frigate sized vessels would not have been much of a stretch.
Has anyone else noticed that the Snare Console seems to work on the Crystalline Entity?
It might have just been my error but I used the Snare on the Entity from about 6K out and it appeared to move in to the 4k rang after the skill went into cool down.
All I need now is to enroll in the school for Bortasque piloting :P
Thanks for your time!
Yes, because the entity is no different from any other "vessel" in those regards, it's still a "ship". The Subspace Jump also takes to its rear. Where the large crystal entities come from lol.
The HoH'SuS is its hanger. Only trick to the Bort, is playing to its strengths. Most idiots try to play it like a BoP and whine and cry how they suck because of it. Learn to fly it, and God you'll love it.
As I always tell people it's a silly ship - you have to do silly things to it to make it work.
My engineer currently uses the Tac Bortasqu' with the KHG set
Weapons loadout is 3x polarized disruptor DHCs, 3x pol disruptor turrets, Hargh'pengs fore and aft (sometimes swapped for rapid-fire transphasic and/or breen cluster depending on the situation)
Consoles vary depending on situation but always 5x disruptor coils and the autocannon. I find the subspace snare is only really useful for snagging and dispatching rapidly-maneuvering NPCs and the Hoh'SuS always drifts to close to NPC battleships right as their warp core goes nova. I use the whole set for general PvE content and fleet actions but leave them at home for STFs and PvP.
BOff layout also varies but I always have a Tac in the Uni LCdr slot with TT1, CSV1 and APO1. Usually run a second copy of TT1 and CSV1 in the Tac Lt. slot, sometimes TS2 if I'm running with transphasics. The Cmdr. Eng. slot is the one I play around with a lot, but I always have Aux2Damp as one of the powers. (That plus APO and Evasive maneuvers will make this sucker dance.) Lt. Sci always has TSS and HE. Usually I stick an Eng. with EPtS1 in the Uni. Ens. slot.
The key to getting this beast to behave is spamming the hell out Aux2Damp, APO1 and EM. Using the conn officers that reduce cooldowns to attack patterns and EM is extremely helpful. With those three powers and judicious use of the throttle I've pulled maneuvers that have made my teammates literally stop shooting and star at their monitors in slack-jawed amazement.
Another key in PvP is to be an ambush predator. Even with the maneuver buff combo you simply can't turn well enough to mix it up in a dogfight. But a well-set-up decloak alpha will obliterate absolutely anything you get in your forward arc.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I've found all this information very help full and I think going with Dual Cannons might make my life a bit easier with this beast.
I'm not fond of the Bortasqu', but switching to Dual Cannons isn't a good move, IMO. The damage is a terrible compromise between Turrets and Dual Heavy Cannons. The proc chance isn't any better compared to Dual Heavies, if procs are what you're after. And Duals are also laden with the same, terrible firing arc restrictions of Dual Heavies.
I remember a while back going through the dumb process of repeating a certain Dominion mission enough times to get 4 Dominion Polaron Dual Cannons. My belief was that the "faster" ROF of the DCs will make up for the smaller damage compared to bonafide DHCs, and a better chance to land the procs. In the end, when I finally got 4 of these things and mounted them on my Qin Raptor, the damage output was absolutely terrible and nothing noticeably better in proc effects landing. The damage output forced my Raptor to have even longer firing times on target compared to the more powerful DHCs. I put my 4 Dominion Polaron DCs into storage and have not touched them for like almost a year now.
Since you're using a ship that has a terrible rep for turning, outside of PVE, that will be a major issue when using DCs / DHCs. My belief is this: You can have all the firepower in the galaxy, but if you cannot present it in a timely manner, it's useless.
If you're going heavy cannon fire, you might as well go all the way with DHCs.
If you want higher DPS than beam arrays, but don't want the firing arc of the Dual/DHCs, regular Cannons work decently. You sacrifice a LOT of DPS, but it does help.
But TBH, DHCs are the way to go.
Get subspace jump
Put on subspace snare, the HoH'SuS, etc.
Put on Assim module, etc.
Focus on Decloak Alphas. with everything else, your target will be dead before you'd ever have to worry about turning. If they somehow get out of your arc of fire, wait 3 seconds for the moron to "get into position" hit subspace snare.
Hammer him down. If he still somehow survives, use subspace jump. He's gone. :cool:
Nice to see another player who's got a brain for this ship. :cool:
But IMHO, it isn't fun.
Other slower turning ships (ala voq/dread/tholian) you don't need to do all that. All you need to worry about is your next destination.
And other ships hit just as hard without all that maintenance.
Comments
My Engineer uses the Engineering Borta but it surprising puts out decent damage. I cant show you stuff that I use on my Borta and the unique setup may inspire you...
And I'm not bluffing.. I do elite STFs with the gear below.. I've pugged Infected and Khitomer with it.. and haven't died if you don't count the invisi torps..
Fore Weapons:
3x Disruptor Cannon. (180 degree fire arc)
1x Disruptor Beam Array.
Aft Weapons:
3x Turret.
1x Disruptor Beam Array
Why the above choice of weapons?:
Well, the main thing with the Borta is the turn rate. So I figured: Why turn?
Although you still have to manuver very slightly with the setup above, you'll notice most of the arcs are covered by beam array and cannon.
Sorry pal, you gotta convince your heart and let it know you aren't a DPS guy, you're here to do -decent- damage but tank when needed, and basically have ur weapons running at the same time. This keeps your weapons running even when you turn.
My Impulse/Deflector/Shields - are very rare stuff all off exchange. The shield is a very rare resilient [Cap]x2 [Pla].
It's a new eng character.. I'm working on reputation so this is what is holding me.. granted with this gear my tanking effort is more (by that i mean I run doffs to really cool down my BO timers.. I cannot afford extensive timing.. these shields despite the description are tissue and I need my BO abilities constant to keep it running, else I'm pretty much 2 shotted to death... this will not be the case if I get Adapted KHG shields though.)
Engineering slot:
2x very rare Neutronium Mk XI
1x Very rare Electroceramic Mk XI
1x Very Rare Monatanium Mk XI
HoH'Sus BoP Separation Console.
Science slot: 1x Rare Field Generator
Tactical slot:
3x Very rare Disruptor Mk XI
1x Auto canon fire console
Inertia Complaint: Aye.. I feel you. But what I do is I'm used to it now.. I hit full impulse and slow it down way before I'm at weapons range (around 15 km of target) and let this inertia carry me into the main weapons range.... once in there.. I re-engage my impuse engines at a 0.5 or sometimes at 1.. I keep varying it between 0-1.5 impulse. When I wanna do huge turn arounds, like 90 degree or 180 degree, I increase it to 5-6 impulse and decrease it again.
Recommended BO layout for your Tac Borta: The below is a recommended BO layout for your Tactical Borta, this is not my setup, since I actually run the Engineering Borta (Bortasqu' War Command Cruiser)... so play around with your ship.. and I hope you find this comfy... if not.. well.. I tried atleast!
As for survivability, on my main character I run the tactical Borta.. and it uses this setup above.. and I do more than just survive xD.. on an engineering character I'm damn sure it could do way better.
EPG builds / SCI ground enthusiast
Unless running AP than 4 AP DHC ACC 2 CrtH (Fleet)
Rears I use 2 beam arrays, 2 turrets. depending on mood/known players I'll be going up against, replace 1 turret, and 1 beam array with 1 Tric Mine, and 1 Quantum mine launcher. (Tac Escort Refits die rather fast when they make a bad attack run)
Subspace Jump, and Subspace Snare, are both great for it. Puts the target in front of you on both occasions.
Grab a Stealth Field Generator mk 12 VR, it'll help with cloaked Alphas.
Also, get a Rom BOff that boosts your cloaking Alpha.
Subspace jump and ship console with an omega set is good enough. Add an evasive boff and lots of deuterium and you should be smokin'.
Add aux to space dampeners (if memory serves) and or emergency to engines and you will be flying an escort (that glides a lot).
Good move to remember is to go in reverse during an evasive and turn.
But again like you said you will have a hard time flying this.
Nice to see another player who's got a brain for this ship. :cool:
I've found all this information very help full and I think going with Dual Cannons might make my life a bit easier with this beast.
Interesting input. Not a fan of snare or subspace but I will definitely pop in the Omega gear and the emergency to engines and see how it goes..
Btw.. is Omega good for survival? I do have an Omega set on a Fed.. but I've never ever used it honestly.
EPG builds / SCI ground enthusiast
Going with Dual Cannons will help hide my inability to turn somewhat; however, dropping eptw and going with epte might help with bringing the bigger guns to bear.
I'll most likely role with 3 Tactical Consoles and the Auto Cannon Console in my Tac slots so I can squeeze a bit more defense out of my Engineering slots.
I've only be using the Bortasque for the last few days and I keep telling myself that the hook for this vessel should have been that it came with one Hanger bay that could support up to Two BOP and had all the Hanger Commands.
A Vessel the size of the Bortasque could have easily been a full Carrier so the fact that it had a single hanger that could support up to two frigate sized vessels would not have been much of a stretch.
Has anyone else noticed that the Snare Console seems to work on the Crystalline Entity?
It might have just been my error but I used the Snare on the Entity from about 6K out and it appeared to move in to the 4k rang after the skill went into cool down.
All I need now is to enroll in the school for Bortasque piloting :P
Thanks for your time!
Yes, because the entity is no different from any other "vessel" in those regards, it's still a "ship". The Subspace Jump also takes to its rear. Where the large crystal entities come from lol.
The HoH'SuS is its hanger. Only trick to the Bort, is playing to its strengths. Most idiots try to play it like a BoP and whine and cry how they suck because of it. Learn to fly it, and God you'll love it.
My engineer currently uses the Tac Bortasqu' with the KHG set
Weapons loadout is 3x polarized disruptor DHCs, 3x pol disruptor turrets, Hargh'pengs fore and aft (sometimes swapped for rapid-fire transphasic and/or breen cluster depending on the situation)
Consoles vary depending on situation but always 5x disruptor coils and the autocannon. I find the subspace snare is only really useful for snagging and dispatching rapidly-maneuvering NPCs and the Hoh'SuS always drifts to close to NPC battleships right as their warp core goes nova. I use the whole set for general PvE content and fleet actions but leave them at home for STFs and PvP.
BOff layout also varies but I always have a Tac in the Uni LCdr slot with TT1, CSV1 and APO1. Usually run a second copy of TT1 and CSV1 in the Tac Lt. slot, sometimes TS2 if I'm running with transphasics. The Cmdr. Eng. slot is the one I play around with a lot, but I always have Aux2Damp as one of the powers. (That plus APO and Evasive maneuvers will make this sucker dance.) Lt. Sci always has TSS and HE. Usually I stick an Eng. with EPtS1 in the Uni. Ens. slot.
The key to getting this beast to behave is spamming the hell out Aux2Damp, APO1 and EM. Using the conn officers that reduce cooldowns to attack patterns and EM is extremely helpful. With those three powers and judicious use of the throttle I've pulled maneuvers that have made my teammates literally stop shooting and star at their monitors in slack-jawed amazement.
Another key in PvP is to be an ambush predator. Even with the maneuver buff combo you simply can't turn well enough to mix it up in a dogfight. But a well-set-up decloak alpha will obliterate absolutely anything you get in your forward arc.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I'm not fond of the Bortasqu', but switching to Dual Cannons isn't a good move, IMO. The damage is a terrible compromise between Turrets and Dual Heavy Cannons. The proc chance isn't any better compared to Dual Heavies, if procs are what you're after. And Duals are also laden with the same, terrible firing arc restrictions of Dual Heavies.
I remember a while back going through the dumb process of repeating a certain Dominion mission enough times to get 4 Dominion Polaron Dual Cannons. My belief was that the "faster" ROF of the DCs will make up for the smaller damage compared to bonafide DHCs, and a better chance to land the procs. In the end, when I finally got 4 of these things and mounted them on my Qin Raptor, the damage output was absolutely terrible and nothing noticeably better in proc effects landing. The damage output forced my Raptor to have even longer firing times on target compared to the more powerful DHCs. I put my 4 Dominion Polaron DCs into storage and have not touched them for like almost a year now.
Since you're using a ship that has a terrible rep for turning, outside of PVE, that will be a major issue when using DCs / DHCs. My belief is this: You can have all the firepower in the galaxy, but if you cannot present it in a timely manner, it's useless.
If you're going heavy cannon fire, you might as well go all the way with DHCs.
But TBH, DHCs are the way to go.
Get subspace jump
Put on subspace snare, the HoH'SuS, etc.
Put on Assim module, etc.
Focus on Decloak Alphas. with everything else, your target will be dead before you'd ever have to worry about turning. If they somehow get out of your arc of fire, wait 3 seconds for the moron to "get into position" hit subspace snare.
Hammer him down. If he still somehow survives, use subspace jump. He's gone. :cool:
But IMHO, it isn't fun.
Other slower turning ships (ala voq/dread/tholian) you don't need to do all that. All you need to worry about is your next destination.
And other ships hit just as hard without all that maintenance.
But that is just me.
I think it is gorgeous though.