test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

The Sixty Second Immunity Suggestion

virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
edited April 2013 in PvP Gameplay
As we all know (or we should all know from the various bug reports, feedback, discussions in countless threads), there are multiple issues with how STO calculates/recalculates certain stats based on certain conditions: spawn, respawn, warp in/zone, etc, etc, etc.

Now technically, we should be reporting each and every player that is willfully, knowingly, willingly, and explicitly exploiting these bugs by attacking players as they spawn, respawn, warp in/zone. (Yes, if you're doing this - don't kid yourself - you know what you're doing and just how you're taking advantage of/exploiting these bugs.)

There's no doubt that this is primarily a PvP issue. While it is an issue in general, PvP or PvE, in PvE you have sufficient time to do what you need to do after warping in/zoning, spawning or respawning, etc, etc, etc. That has pretty much meant that fixing the calculation/recalculation bug is not high on the priority list - there is a relatively easy workaround/fix for the vast majority of the game. Also quite frankly, I believe it would be a massive undertaking considering everything that would be involved in resolving the bugs as well as making sure it did not happen with any future calculation/recalculations that would be added to the game.

Still, rather than suggesting that everybody that witnesses a player exploiting said bug to the support team - the sheer number of players that do this and the sheer number of players that would report that sheer number of players doing it...well, it would quickly overwhelm the support team with what could literally be perceived as support spam. This would detract from countless other issues that many would agree should take a higher precedence.

Thus, I am suggesting "The Sixty Second Immunity" as a stopgap measure to address the issue until such time that solving/resolving the calculation/recalculation bugs can take place.

With this temporary immunity, a player upon spawning/respawning/zoning/warping in would have more than ample time to move a bit, reslot BOFFs, set pieces, consoles, etc, etc, etc. That would allow the calculations to recalculate correctly.

Said immunity could be broken by the player in a number of ways:

Moving beyond a certain distance from the spawn. Obviously if they've moved beyond the short distance needed to correct the Bonus Defense bug, they're signalling that they are ready to proceed. Immunity drops.

Taking a hostile action. Obviously, if they're ready to take hostile action upon another player, then they're ready to have another player take hostile action upon them. Immunity drops.

Taking a defensive action. Obviously, if they're ready to defend against hostile action, then they've decided that they're ready to defend against hostile action. Immunity drops.

Making a support action. Obviously, if they've decided to help somebody else out - once again, they've decided that they're ready to play. Immunity drops.

Not only would such immunity allow for one to workaround those calculation/recalculation issues, it would also address issues such as zoning lag, spawning/respawning lag, as well as dealing with that pesky warp in animation which can take days for certain players out there.

Please note, for those that have read this far - this is not about instituting a safe zone. It's not about trying to put an end to camping. No, it's simply about addressing the issue of those that are both knowingly and unknowingly exploiting the calculation/recalculation bugs.

Unknowingly? Yes, there are some. They have no idea that the people they are attacking are suffering from these bugs. They have no idea that they are suffering from these bugs.

Thank you...
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • seansamurai1seansamurai1 Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Me and you think along very similar lines on this matter. Should also happen in Kerrat where the favourite tactic seems to be either spike the warp in zone or camp the respawn for cheap and easy kills.
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I myself didn't realise that these bugs existed. At least, not until I warped into Kerrat and got killed by 3 feddies during the warp-in animation.

    Anyways, could be useful. Although sixty seconds does seem to be a bit long. Maybe a little shorter?
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    scurry5 wrote: »
    I myself didn't realise that these bugs existed. At least, not until I warped into Kerrat and got killed by 3 feddies during the warp-in animation.

    Anyways, could be useful. Although sixty seconds does seem to be a bit long. Maybe a little shorter?

    60 seconds for some people who take awhile to load back in would almost not be enough.

    But any longer would be a bit much honestly.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    scurry5 wrote: »
    I myself didn't realise that these bugs existed. At least, not until I warped into Kerrat and got killed by 3 feddies during the warp-in animation.

    Anyways, could be useful. Although sixty seconds does seem to be a bit long. Maybe a little shorter?

    Well, it kind of depends on what you've already done before you try to do what you're doing.

    For much of it, if it's a case you log in to space - just beaming down to the ground and back will correct some of the recalculations. Most of that will hold as you zone around. Some still has to be fixed after you die or you zone/etc.

    One of the easiest to see is Bonus Defense. Fly around orbit of Qo'noS or Sol and then stop. Note your Bonus Defense. Beam down. Beam back. Tada. It's wrong. Move some. Stop again. Tada. It's right again. While your character window listing your points in skills will show the correct amount you have for Maneuvers, it's not actually being used in the calculation.

    For example, all of my guys have Elusive/9 Maneuvers. Sitting still, their Bonus Defense is +10%. (+10% Elusive, +15% Maneuvers). If I zone/respawn, it's going to be -5%.

    If you have neither Elusive nor Maneuvers, your Bonus Defense while standing still is -15%.

    It's only counting the +10% from Elusive. It's not counting the +15% from Maneuvers.

    What does this mean?

    Say you've got Elusive/9 Maneuvers - if they do not have Accurate, Targeting, or Acc mods - they're going to have +1.6% CrtH and +6.5% CrtD.

    Yep, they've got that added in and what they're hitting you with during that zone in/respawn/warp animation.

    Say they've got the typical Accurate, 9 Targeting, and say 2x Acc mods? Nah, I'll give 'em 3x Acc mods for this example. Then they'll have +5.1% CrtH and +20.6% CrtD.

    Yep, that's what they're likely hitting you with before your screen even loads.

    That's on top of whatever other CrtH/CrtD they've got. Since they're also guaranteed 100% To-Hit because of your negative Bonus Defense - they could easily mix in those standard CrtH/CrtD mods on the weapons as well.

    It's one of the reasons that a camp is so effective - they're exploiting the bug in the calculation.

    Got a SIF console on a boat? Log in to orbit with it. Note your Hull Regen. Reslot the console. Look at the Hull Regen again. Doh!

    Same goes for various set pieces and other gear that modify skill points. Tac consoles which modify damage are not affected - they're not a skill calc.

    The funniest one I saw was on my Fed Sci. Removing a Sensor console increased his Stealth Detection Rating. Cause it does the recalc when you remove the gear. The skill points in Sensors went down, but the Stealth Detection Rating went up because of the recalc.

    Heck, BOFF traits - Human Leadership? Have to reslot.

    Like I said, though - some of it is handled by simply going to the ground and then back to space. It will recalc most of the gear. The Bonus Defense thing will still be off though.

    Some of the recalculations get broken again when you zone or respawn (which is basically a form of zoning). Some will break on a respawn that were fine when zoning.

    So while 60 seconds may seem like an eternity - depending on what you're running and need to reslot (I was also allowing for time from the respawn delay/animation) and being able to move enough for the Bonus Defense calculation to correct - for some folks even that is going to leave them rushed.

    Still, it's one of the reasons that I suggested moving a certain distance away from the spawn (would not have to be that far) or taking any sort of action (using an ability) would break the immunity. That person is...good to go.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Here's an example fresh from Ker'rat.

    After dying and respawning:

    Hull Repair Rate: 135.3%/min
    Hull Repair Skill: 117

    Remove a +17.5 SIF console.

    Hull Repair Rate: 207.7%/min
    Hull Repair Skill: 99

    Reslot the console.

    Hull Repair Rate: 207.7%/min
    Hull Repair Skill: 117

    Reslot one of the human BOFFs.

    Hull Repair Rate: 216.5%/min
    Hull Repair Skill: 117

    note: yes, I waited until I had full crew again before grabbing the first number.

    edit: and just to make it more fun.

    After the restart.

    Remove the console. Repair rate will drop. Reslot it. Won't go back up. Have to reslot the human. :{
  • webdeathwebdeath Member Posts: 1,570 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I actually recall when they were testing the Idea of doing a more Open Warzone type thing, where Klingons could "Attack" freighters in open sector zones, there was a warp in spot where the Klingons would see others as Allies and vice, versa (I think..going by memory here. And one that might tainted by both time and current family loss, so I might be forgetting/misplacing facts some where) How ever it was abit glitchy, and one could run into that spot to avoid getting killed and then just sit in it for an untimed duration.

    So if they still have that coding laying around some where, they could probably use that coding as a base to come up with what your suggesting. Since they did test something like that before. But the length of time from now and when they tested it for me I can't recall. But I do recall it, which was important.
    You think that your beta test was bad?
    Think about this:
    American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • borgresearcherborgresearcher Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    60 second immunity is to much, that will allow the warped guy to make an alpha and kill whoever he wants, the bug is easy to fix, beacause you warp in when the loading screen appears, even if you are not playing yet and still waiting for the load, you are allready warped in the zone, the fix is: you only warp in, when the load screen ends
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    60 second immunity is to much, that will allow the warped guy to make an alpha and kill whoever he wants, the bug is easy to fix, beacause you warp in when the loading screen appears, even if you are not playing yet and still waiting for the load, you are allready warped in the zone, the fix is: you only warp in, when the load screen ends

    Did you read any of what I actually said?

    /sigh
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Are these bugs 'real', or just a screwy display bug?
    _________________________________________________
    [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
    [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
    [D'Mented][D'Licious]
    Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
  • borgresearcherborgresearcher Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Did you read any of what I actually said?

    /sigh

    if you want me to be honest, not at all, just the warp word i think xD not in the mood today
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    if you want me to be honest, not at all, just the warp word i think xD not in the mood today

    It was the smallest...almost insignificant part...of what I said.

    The warp-in animation thing is a performance thing. Those with a better rig will not have issues with it - while those with a lesser rig - will experience issues.

    The main part was that when you login, when you zone, when you spawn, when you respawn, etc, etc, etc - there are calculations of certain stats that are off. To correct them, you need to reslot gear, reslot BOFFs, and even more at a certain speed for a certain distance.

    All of them are easy to test and easily reproducible.

    Heck, this morning while doing CnH - I had to reslot my deflector and Sensor Probes... because my Stealth Detection Rating was incorrect until I did so. Sensor Skill showed fine. But yeah, it does the fun stuff where you pull a console and the SDR actually goes up while the Sensor Skill goes down. :(

    The sixty seconds was not for the warp in animation to play out. The sixty seconds was to be able to unslot and to reslot any gear or BOFFs you need to and to move a little to fix the Bonus Defense bug.

    I also laid out how one would break the immunity early by taking almost any action...
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    naevius wrote: »
    Are these bugs 'real', or just a screwy display bug?

    Can test the leadership by having somebody shoot at you. You should notice the difference in hull regen.

    Can test the defense by having somebody shoot at you. You should notice the difference in damage.

    Can test the sensors by having somebody cloak. You should notice not noticing them.

    etc, etc, etc...
  • nyniknynik Member Posts: 1,628 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I don't think its a good idea to institute an immunity period to facilitate players manually adjusting their gear/boffs to get the stats they should have had in the first place. I think it needs to work by default.
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Can test the leadership by having somebody shoot at you. You should notice the difference in hull regen.

    Can test the defense by having somebody shoot at you. You should notice the difference in damage.

    Can test the sensors by having somebody cloak. You should notice not noticing them.

    etc, etc, etc...

    Yes, but I'm lazy. Has anyone already tested?
    _________________________________________________
    [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
    [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
    [D'Mented][D'Licious]
    Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I'm still dorking around and trying to collect data for this. Will say that I've noticed that some of the issues appear to be ship related somehow. Something that happens each and every time on certain ships never happens on other ships. I might have more time this weekend.
Sign In or Register to comment.