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Are Tachyon Mines balanced now?

mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited April 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Figured this deserved it's own thread.

So, with Tachyon Mines giving a 2.5% shield resist debuff, and also the shield drain (which is now properly resisted by PI); are Tachyon Mines balanced out?

I mean, with the sheer amount of shield resists you can easily stack up *cough* Elite shields *cough*...using these on a team doesn't seem quite so bad anymore IMO.

I mean, the shield drain itself doesn't seem to really be an issue unless whole teams started fielding these things, but even then, if they do it'll be pretty obvious. That's the only real balance issue I see, too many people at once. But that also existed possibly before the change today anyways.



Now if only Tachyon Beam and possibly other shield drains provided a resist debuff. I'd LOVE to be able to slot Tachyon Beam 3 and CPB 3 on a sci ship and just remove ALL the resists (or close to it) of a ship or ships. That'd actually make them more worthwhile.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Post edited by mimey2 on

Comments

  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    So, with Tachyon Mines giving a 2.5% shield resist debuff, and also the shield drain (which is now properly resisted by PI); are Tachyon Mines balanced out?

    If you plan to use them on a escort (9 in flow cap ) those mines are now completly useless ( I tested them on red shirt against a sci in wells) .Maybe other combinations with 1000000 flow capacitor consoles will make them even worth considering ,but right now they are the most expensive way to fill a slot in your inventory (even the icon is ugly :rolleyes: )
  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Figured this deserved it's own thread.

    So, with Tachyon Mines giving a 2.5% shield resist debuff, and also the shield drain (which is now properly resisted by PI); are Tachyon Mines balanced out?

    I mean, with the sheer amount of shield resists you can easily stack up *cough* Elite shields *cough*...using these on a team doesn't seem quite so bad anymore IMO.

    I mean, the shield drain itself doesn't seem to really be an issue unless whole teams started fielding these things, but even then, if they do it'll be pretty obvious. That's the only real balance issue I see, too many people at once. But that also existed possibly before the change today anyways.

    Sounds like they're probably in the right place. Testing will tell, though.
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Now if only Tachyon Beam and possibly other shield drains provided a resist debuff. I'd LOVE to be able to slot Tachyon Beam 3 and CPB 3 on a sci ship and just remove ALL the resists (or close to it) of a ship or ships. That'd actually make them more worthwhile.

    If by worthwhile, you mean mercilessly overpowered, correct.
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    All well another PvE toy goes back to PvE. :)

    Seriously all the lobi gear can be useless in PvP I'm fine with that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    So, with Tachyon Mines giving a 2.5% shield resist debuff, and also the shield drain (which is now properly resisted by PI); are Tachyon Mines balanced out?

    Needs testing.

    1 ship can still TRIBBLE out 4 of these mines x 2.5% resistance debuff every 15s.

    5 ships brings that to a potential 20 mines every 15s.

    Dispersal patterns makes it even stronger (DPB/A 1 is around 7 mines).



    mimey2 wrote: »
    Now if only Tachyon Beam and possibly other shield drains provided a resist debuff. I'd LOVE to be able to slot Tachyon Beam 3 and CPB 3 on a sci ship and just remove ALL the resists (or close to it) of a ship or ships. That'd actually make them more worthwhile.

    That would make them SNB powerful, except on a shorter cooldown and available through several means.

    While I think some resist debuffing would be nice, removing all resists (especially in an AoE) would be heinously OP.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Needs testing.

    1 ship can still TRIBBLE out 4 of these mines x 2.5% resistance debuff every 15s.

    5 ships brings that to a potential 20 mines every 15s.

    Dispersal patterns makes it even stronger (DPB/A 1 is around 7 mines).

    That would make them SNB powerful, except on a shorter cooldown and available through several means.

    While I think some resist debuffing would be nice, removing all resists (especially in an AoE) would be heinously OP.

    Yeah, that is true that a team can all bring these together, which is what makes me curious.

    And maybe saying removing 'ALL' resists was rather over the top. Consider it more like...

    Tachyon Beam 3: Removes X shields per facing, causes an X% of stacking shield resistance debuff per pulse, each debuff lasts like 5 seconds. So it'd be REALLY low shield resist for a few seconds, and once the Tachyon Beam wore off (or the player got disabled, placated, etc etc), the debuffs would go away after a few moments.

    CPB would be a flat debuff to anything it hit. Like 10% to anything it hit, plus the normal shield drain. It'd last a bit longer, but wouldn't be able to stack. (So if a whole team slotted these, you couldn't stack 5 of these together, but you could chain them one after another)
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • edna#7310 edna Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    All well another PvE toy goes back to PvE. :)

    Seriously all the lobi gear can be useless in PvP I'm fine with that.

    why not lobi store ships?

    why stop at lobi store?C store has vesta which is not exactly equal to what you get from shipyard.
  • gstamo01gstamo01 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    One player with these mines was never a problem. It's when multiple players use it.

    Sorry, but Cryptic shouldn't punish players for working together...

    What's next, nerfing plasma again because a team of plasma players can burn up a ship in between HE cool downs? Stupid..

    Honestly, if they want to nerf the Tachyon Mines, fine, but than add DMG to them.

    Considering the other changes in this patch, I don't really believe this nerf was necessary at all.





    They should give players back their 200 lobi.
    You know Cryptic has Jumped the Proverbial Shark when they introduced Tractor Pulling to Star Trek Online! :D
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    i don't understand why they were nerfed, and fixed so they are resisted by PI, that alone nerfes their effect in halffor anyone with 99 PI skill.

    they need to make tach beam and CBP have the same res reduction too, that would make them actually useful. a tach beam+ alpha would make shields a bit squishier when attached, the biggest problem right now is elite shields hitting res caps and anything being basically invincible. make CPB strip all elite shield res stacks too when used.

    tach mines can be the iceing on the cake for these builds, or the same effect for ships that don't have room for ether sci skill or have room for dispersal patterns instead
  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    i don't understand why they were nerfed, and fixed so they are resisted by PI, that alone nerfes their effect in halffor anyone with 99 PI skill.

    they need to make tach beam and CBP have the same res reduction too, that would make them actually useful. a tach beam+ alpha would make shields a bit squishier when attached, the biggest problem right now is elite shields hitting res caps and anything being basically invincible. make CPB strip all elite shield res stacks too when used.

    tach mines can be the iceing on the cake for these builds, or the same effect for ships that don't have room for ether sci skill or have room for dispersal patterns instead

    They were nerfed because focus fire is a thing *and* there are escorts out there that can make them drain just as hard as a sci ship can while creating giant nets of the damn things.

    At least, that's why I figure they got nerfed.
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Frankly when escorts start running a mine you know its not balanced properly.

    When the class that should be focusing on spike starts running the longest over time weapon in the game. There must be something wrong with it.

    Think about what we have seen escorts running the last year or so....

    Trics.... Broken and Now fixed.
    Croniton... Debatable perhaps, still fixed. In a way I agree with at least. ;)
    Lobi mines... 100% they where broken. Did they go to far. I don't think so. Fixed.

    There was no reason to have these on an escort unless you where trying really hard to get a free shield strip.

    Do I like the fact that shield resists are insane right now... heck no.

    I don't think the solution though is a Lobi Store Mine. (I'm not wining I have multiples of tons of lobi gear on all kinds of toons.)

    I can live with lobi consoles like the tach. (the set bonus is BS however)

    Yes Cryptic has made a ton of the lobi gear way to powerful.

    To be honest let these mines be a lesson to everyone that is willing to go hard spending all there EC / or a chunk of real $ on expensive sets ect. If its OP... it doesn't matter how you came by it, at some point some one at Cryptic will look at it with a little common sense and with an eye to the good of the game and fix it. Don't be upset when it inevitably happens. :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    They were nerfed because focus fire is a thing *and* there are escorts out there that can make them drain just as hard as a sci ship can while creating giant nets of the damn things.

    At least, that's why I figure they got nerfed.

    ya but until this patch PI did not resist them at all. thats why haveing PI work properly and cutting thier stats in half, well now they will be 1/4 as effective as they used to agienst anyone smart enough to put 9 into PI
  • havamhavam Member Posts: 1,735 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I m with drunk 50 % of the problem was that PI didn't counter them, that has been fixed.

    the other 50% of the problem is that An andorian escort with these and mine patternswas turned into a better shieldstripper then any sc/sci combo out there could have hoped to be.

    Tach mines and leech are in the same boat now, if you ask me. Both nerfed into near uselessness against someone with 6 in PI and Fleet shields. Which by the way is the thing that should really have gotten the nerf hammer.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Although the mines did need a little tone up (PI was enough), they got the typical Cryptic (tm) overnerf.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I was testing them yesterday, you can still visibly see how effective they are in relation to how many hit the target, but they're not what they once were. Effective against players too stupid to have points in the wrong place to guard against them, but possibly not worth using anymore against better players.

    They've been slightly overly nerfed.

    The argument of "It's only OP if a full team fields them" works for near enough everything in this game...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    "They were only OP if the whole team had them"


    This statement is complete nonsense, because as thegrimcorsair said 'Focus fire is a thing'.


    Concentrated Tachyon mines were an overpowered force multiplier, with one of the lowest cost (1 rear slot) to benefit (potential to completely strip or massively debuff a target's shields every 15s or 30s) ratios in the game.

    The only reason they weren't latched onto en masse by the same people running the old trico mine spam was due to the cost.

    ya but until this patch PI did not resist them at all. thats why haveing PI work properly and cutting thier stats in half, well now they will be 1/4 as effective as they used to agienst anyone smart enough to put 9 into P

    Something as powerful as Shield Resistance debuffs should never have been placed onto low or zero cost spammable items like mines and procs in the first place.

    If the devs ever do add shield resistance debuffs to select sci boff abilities, that on the other hand would be a useful addition to the game.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    All well another PvE toy goes back to PvE. :)

    Seriously all the lobi gear can be useless in PvP I'm fine with that.

    Aside from the fact that they were already garbae in PvP because the borg have resistances like hell. You now need two Sci leechers to have the chance to disable a cubes shields. let alone a taccube^^
  • seansamurai1seansamurai1 Member Posts: 634 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    woodwhity wrote: »
    Aside from the fact that they were already garbae in PvP because the borg have resistances like hell. You now need two Sci leechers to have the chance to disable a cubes shields. let alone a taccube^^

    You make PvE sound difficult. :|
    If you need the use of a glitch or bug to win in PvE, I'd suggest researching why its going so wrong.
    The fact that these tachyon mines weren't nerfed at all, they were corrected.
    Just like tricobalts were with their ridiculous damage spikes not so long back.
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