Ok, so here is the issue. I am a Fed Eng with a cruiser (Excelsior). My friend runs as a tac in a fleet patrol escort.
He goes on and on about how awesome that ship is, and honestly, I have developed this irrational hatred for it. We run duels a few times, but mainly to test numbers or builds and what not. The thing is, I've never been able to blow him up, and he throws it in my face constantly.
I really want to wipe that smug grin off his face.
He has bet me that as an Eng in a cruiser, I will never be able to beat him 1v1.
I have tried several different builds, and honestly, I am sick of wasting money trying things out, so I am turning you you fine folks. Is there a way to blow that damn ship ship up?
Cmdr Tac - TT1, CRF1, APO1, CRF3
LCom Tac - TT1, APB1, APO1
Lt Eng - EPtS 1, RSP
En Eng - EPtS1
Lt Sci - HE1, TSS2
All human Boffs
Consoles:
Eng - x2 Neut Mk XI blue, Borg, RCS,
Sci - x2 Field Gens
Tac - x4 Antirproton
Not sure about his doff layout.
Deflector - Borg
Engine - Borg
Shield - MACO
He actually can't really hurt me as I am running EPtS3 with 125 Shield, RSF, TSS2, and have 3 purple Damage control engineers and conn officers for tac team. I just can't seem to do enough damage to do anything significant to his hull. I have tried beams, 6 and 8, torp boat, cannon boat, turret boat, all with fleet weapons. I've tried EWP, AB, and DEM. I have used Antiproton, phaser, and disruptor (not together of course). Photons, Quantums, Transpahsics or Trics. I can't get his shields down very long between him using EPtS, and as soon as I am not hitting his hull, his native hull regen will get him back up from 70-80s to 100% in seconds.
So tell me, is there any way to wipe the smug grin off his face while being an engy in an cruiser? I am getting tired of it. He has actually begun to taunt me by sitting absolutely still, .5k off my bow just to rub it in that no matter what I use, he doesn't need to do anything but spam spacebar (Redistibute shields, EPts1, TSS2) and stay alive. He doesn't even fire back anymore, and I am getting annoyed.
I am 3 days away from finishing The Fleet version. Is the 4th tac console going to be enough? I have actually gotten so discouraged with cruisers, I am not even sure I want to waste the 5 mil EC to even get the dang thing.
I am T5 in all rep, and I have finished a few Rep sets, but I don't have Omega for Tetryon glider yet, but I am not sure how much difference it will make.
So there it is. Can anyone help me win this bet, without spending millions upon millions for the SNB doff? I just need a 1v1 build for this bet.
Well 1) if he can't spike an engi cruiser... he is the one with the massive fail build... 4 dhc was 1 year ago. Tell him that. lol
What you need is Spike... that he can't heal.
Forget about going all beams or all cannons... you will never ever spike an escort down with just energy unless he is really dumb enough to sit in front of you and not move off to heal.
You probaly are going to want to run an aux to bat build.
You will need 3 tech doffs to make that work... purple ones are really idea... but for the purpose of a simple 1v1 dual you might be able to get away with 3 blues.
I would run....
2 Tetryon (or better phased tetryon) cannons... with 2 Torps in front. Transphasic (you can use the rapid fire phasics from the mission for a bit faster fire rate)
In the rear I would put 2 turrets a cutting beam and a breen cluster torp. ( use torp consoles... so what ever turrets you have will do you don't have to spend any more ec... who cares rainbow it up)
For consoles... go with all torp consoles. (this is going to be about spiking him) the tet weapons are just there to keep some preasure on him... and if your lucky you might proc the shield strip a few times in a row and get him in trouble if you time your buffs well.
Skills I would use...
DEM 3 ( with tech doffs this will be up almost all the time)
Consider dropping your EPTS 3 to EPTS 2... and get a Warp Plasma to go with.
Run Aux to Bat 1... so you can proc your doffs.
Run Spread 3 and rapid 1.
For doffs... 3 tech doffs like I mentioned... and 2 Torp Doffs.... you won't need the dmg control the Tech doffs will do the same thing for you.
If you use that I am sure you could take him out.... or at least force him to run... and every time he runs laugh at him. If he gets behind you and sits on your tail... launch the breen cluster in his face... with the phasic consoles in it has a good chance even from an engi to one shot him.
DISCLAIMER: Don't use this build. Don't use anything from this build. Unless somebody else suggests that you do use something from it (either directly, which is unlikely - or - they post it in another build). I just like posting somewhat out of the box/flaky builds when somebody talks about builds. It's a creative process. Often though, there are things that I would do with said build that simply are not communicated by the build when seen in a forum post - so even if it were something I were to fly, I couldn't explain why I flew it or how it worked - I know how, I just wouldn't be very good at explaining it.
Fleet Excelsior w/ Eng Captain
Traits - Accurate, Elusive, Techie, Warp Theorist
Passives
New Rom - Precision, Emergency Secondary Shielding, (QSM)
Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Amplifier
Consoles
Tac - 3x Plasma Infuser Mk XI, Trans Compressor Mk XI
Eng - Borg, 0Point,Tachyo, Neut Mk XI
Sci - 2x Rom PrtG [Pla]
Devices - Aux Batt, Shield Batt, Scorpions, Trans Torp Platform
See? Nothing you want here. :rolleyes:
The premise, mind you - is telling him after he goes outside of 10km that he forfeited. If a boxer steps out of the ring...lalalalala. He can always try to schedule a rematch if he likes.
DISCLAIMER: Don't use this build. Don't use anything from this build. Unless somebody else suggests that you do use something from it (either directly, which is unlikely - or - they post it in another build). I just like posting somewhat out of the box/flaky builds when somebody talks about builds. It's a creative process. Often though, there are things that I would do with said build that simply are not communicated by the build when seen in a forum post - so even if it were something I were to fly, I couldn't explain why I flew it or how it worked - I know how, I just wouldn't be very good at explaining it.
Perhaps 4DHC is last year, but we have only been playing for 5 months or so, so we are little behind the curve, hehe. I would have to ask you for his sake how does one spike through nearly max SDR solo?
And he doesn't just sit there normally. He usually just sits at 1/4 impulse and rotates around as I try desperately to turn. I do manage to play some evasive tactics him, but he knows at this point without a doubt that he doesn't need to run away or get off my butt because nothing I can dish out is threatening enough to force him to retreat.
This was actually kind of close to what I most recently tried, though not with entirely a batt build. I tried (just for kicks) an all out transphasic build. 3 rapid reloads and a cluster in the front, 1 rapid reload, a cluster, and 2 trans mine launchers in the back. 2 breen set pieces (for the set bonus) and 4 trans tac consoles. I switched out some boffs to run EPtS2 like you said, with EWP and DEM3. EWP ticked for 300ish dmg per tick (granted no points in particle or grav, whichever it is) and DEM3 made me go from roughly 30-40 hull bleedthrough dmg per shot, to maybe 70-90. Still well within the capacity for his hull to regen, something like 158%/sec.
What I found most interesting is while the rapids would hit for roughly 300-400 hull dmg (with 9 points in torp damage, 6 in torp crit), the cluster would spike him down to roughly 80%, 70% for a crit. However given the piddly damage between everything else, his hull would regen up to 100% in about 6 seconds, completely nullifying any damage done. However, for testing purposes, he removed one of his resist consoles (Neut). I actually got him down to low 20's% before he ran away. Now, I would like to consider this winning the bet, but since it is not what he normally uses, I cannot.
I have poured over every PvP cruiser build in here that I can find (this torp boat was way down on the list of things I thought would be effective), and I have looked very closely at the batt build. The main reason for this build, I think anyway, is to be able to chain powers that you don't have room for 2 of. My doffs seem to take care of that for the most part, at least on tac and engy skills (for this build I had TS2 and TS3). I am not discounting the build, or bashing your advice or anything. I am just saying maybe I am missing something in the layout.
Our fighting back and forth didn't seem to be an issue before leadership was fixed. We actually had some pretty good fights back and forth.
And he doesn't just sit there normally. He usually just sits at 1/4 impulse and rotates around as I try desperately to turn. I do manage to play some evasive tactics him, but he knows at this point without a doubt that he doesn't need to run away or get off my butt because nothing I can dish out is threatening enough to force him to retreat.
Use a tractor beam and subspace jump/Grav Well. It works wonders.
So tell me, is there any way to wipe the smug grin off his face while being an engy in an cruiser??
Nope, not unless a) he's a poor tank in an escort or b) you're in a cruiser that can equip dual heavy cannons.
With the right powers an escort can resist DHC's almost as well as a cruiser. As such anything less then DHC's will just tickle them (unless buffed by tac captain powers, but even then they aren't a major hazard in a 1v1). This goes especially if he's using the 2x piece borg set, which reliably heals sustained damage done by beam arrays and cannons.
From the looks of his build, you have no chance of killing him unless he's a bad player.
Virusdancers build is probably going to be the closest you're going to get.
Oh and don't bother with EWP, it's rather useless against decent escorts, especially ones with 2x APO.
If you're into beating someone in a 1v1 and are stuck with playing fed, I'd recommend getting either a sci ship (load it out with 2x VM and system engineer doffs) or an escort. Or wait until the Gal-X gets saucer sep.
Nope, not unless a) he's a poor tank in an escort or b) you're in a cruiser that can equip dual heavy cannons.
With the right powers an escort can resist DHC's almost as well as a cruiser. As such anything less then DHC's will just tickle them (unless buffed by tac captain powers, but even then they aren't a major hazard in a 1v1). This goes especially if he's using the 2x piece borg set, which reliably heals sustained damage done by beam arrays and cannons.
From the looks of his build, you have no chance of killing him unless he's a bad player.
Virusdancers build is probably going to be the closest you're going to get.
Oh and don't bother with EWP, it's rather useless against decent escorts, especially ones with 2x APO.
If you're into beating someone in a 1v1 and are stuck with playing fed, I'd recommend getting either a sci ship or an escort. Or wait until the Gal-X gets saucer sep.
Only in making the escort player laugh his TRIBBLE off.
He's not a bad player, so this is pretty much what I was afraid of on the DHC front. Seems kind of annoying that given how many people are starting to show up with elite fleet shields, escorts can now tank as well, (if not better than a cruiser as cruisers aren't prime targets, thus stacking resists) as a cruiser.
I can't really do any damage, people are needing my heals less and less, but I can keep myself alive....though I am never a target. I didn't really want to turn this into a complain about cruisers thread, but what exactly is the point of fed cruisers now?
I never really understood the validity of EWP against escorts, or Grav Well for that matter.
I will try Virus's build out and see how it goes. Last ditch effort I suppose.
I'm not sure what teams you are fighting but my teammates have never not needed my heals, and as it turns out, I often become a prime target because I give them freely....like my love.
Well 1) if he can't spike an engi cruiser... he is the one with the massive fail build... 4 dhc was 1 year ago. Tell him that. lol
What you need is Spike... that he can't heal.
Forget about going all beams or all cannons... you will never ever spike an escort down with just energy unless he is really dumb enough to sit in front of you and not move off to heal.
You probaly are going to want to run an aux to bat build.
You will need 3 tech doffs to make that work... purple ones are really idea... but for the purpose of a simple 1v1 dual you might be able to get away with 3 blues.
I would run....
2 Tetryon (or better phased tetryon) cannons... with 2 Torps in front. Transphasic (you can use the rapid fire phasics from the mission for a bit faster fire rate)
In the rear I would put 2 turrets a cutting beam and a breen cluster torp. ( use torp consoles... so what ever turrets you have will do you don't have to spend any more ec... who cares rainbow it up)
For consoles... go with all torp consoles. (this is going to be about spiking him) the tet weapons are just there to keep some preasure on him... and if your lucky you might proc the shield strip a few times in a row and get him in trouble if you time your buffs well.
Skills I would use...
DEM 3 ( with tech doffs this will be up almost all the time)
Consider dropping your EPTS 3 to EPTS 2... and get a Warp Plasma to go with.
Run Aux to Bat 1... so you can proc your doffs.
Run Spread 3 and rapid 1.
For doffs... 3 tech doffs like I mentioned... and 2 Torp Doffs.... you won't need the dmg control the Tech doffs will do the same thing for you.
If you use that I am sure you could take him out.... or at least force him to run... and every time he runs laugh at him. If he gets behind you and sits on your tail... launch the breen cluster in his face... with the phasic consoles in it has a good chance even from an engi to one shot him.
There is no ENG cruiser in game that can kill and escort.
I am afraid beating that tac escort is near impossible, provided the pilot knows what he is doing.
As an engineer you cannot buff your damage enough, nor debuff your opponent enough. Energy weapons are the wrong approach, your best bet would be indeed kinetic damage. But the problem there is, if the tac escort puts some monotanium on and a Polarize Hull, he is protected.
It is possible to zombify an eng/cruiser build to survive duels against tac escorts. If you are zombie enough, you can even survive 100k crits.
By the way, a fleet patrol with 4 DHCs is still a very viable build. As a matter of fact, some of the most best escort players in the game (like Yoda, MT, Strike etc.) are still using 4 DHCs on their main tac escort builds. For a good reason. Tell them to their face that they are running fail builds.
Sad truth is, in order to win you need to switch to tac cruiser. You can whoop him with a tac excelsior.
I will try Virus's build out and see how it goes. Last ditch effort I suppose.
Didn't you see the disclaimer? Seriously? I put it at the top and at the bottom!
I highly recommend you ignore it.
So it goes something like this...
Escorts like to follow Cruisers and sit on their butts, because face it - the Cruiser is not going to out turn the Escort and the Escort wants to avoid as much broadside as possible. It's they're favorite spot, right?
When you drop the warp poo on him, he's going to be along the lines of whatever as he pops HE/EM to get out of it. Odds are though, he's still going to be flying in a certain direction - toward you. So you TBR him. That's going to be pushing him back toward the warp poo he thought he just escaped. He doesn't want that. He's going to hit APO. Course, unlike PH - APO doesn't offer the hull resist. So he's going to be taking some hull damage.
While he's thinking about the TBR coming from in front of him and the warp poo behind him (possibly around him) - he may not notice the Hyper-Plasma torps, the Breen Cluster, nor the Boarding Parties that are coming his way.
As he does notice them and contemplates what to do, you've probably run into the period of time where his HE has expired. Which is a nifty time to get broadside and just tickle him with the Arrays/Cutting Beam. Go ahead and drop the Trans Platform as well. He's probably getting a little angry at the moment, since you've basically been spamming him - trying to make him sit - push him around. And there you are not really doing any damage so to speak. Around this time the triggered CD on the fore Breen should be gone, so it's a case of hitting APO, BO+Hyperflux the Experimental Beam, flying straight at him - dropping the Breen just as you pass and the Plasma mines right after you pass...and of course another stream of Hyper-Plasma torps will shoot out your butt at him.
So he's there - with the Hyperflux burn and HDR debuff on him. He's getting hit by the Trans Platform, the fore Breen Cluster is about to say hello, there are some mines about to go pop, he's got the Hyper-Plasma torps coming at him, and well - his HE's still on CD. His Borg set might proc. Pesky RNG. Or it might not.
Course, it's not long before he has HE available again - and - he's probably going to be using it to try to heal his hull some and deal with the Plasma he's got going on. So of course though, you're going to hit EM, hit reverse and head left/right (your choice), then go forward again turning toward him...and...drop warp poo again - drop aft Breen Cluster - drop some Plasma mines...etc.
He's going to APO away from you this time - so no TBR of course.
Thing to consider here, is that you want to spend the majority of your time at 24 or higher impulse - if you've got Elusive, 9 Maneuvers, going 24+ impulse, have the Aegis engines - you're looking at +75% Bonus Defense. If he's got Accurate, 9 Targeting, and is running [Acc]x2 weapons - he's got +45 Bonus Accuracy. He's basically looking at a 71.4% To-Hit. He's not going to be hitting as often as he would like. He's not going to be hitting as often as he might have expected. That's also not taking into account the Bonus Defense you'd have from when APO or EM were up.
It's an attrition build. It's also a gimmick build. It's a very gimmick build. One of the reasons that I stuck two disclaimers instead of just one. Depending on his experience fighting something of that nature, it's just not going to be as effective. I know what I would do differently were I in his place fighting you with that build.
So yeah, like I said - I wouldn't recommend it. I might run it if I had an Excelsior (I'm not a fan of the 3 Eng En BOFFs)...but even that would be iffy. Maybe for the lawlz in Ker'rat with other folks around that might offer some additional support or take the guy out while he's being po'd at me...but yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend it.
edit: BTW, that's not a wink-wink-nudge-nudge don't do it. That's an honest to goodness I wouldn't recommend it.
4 DHCs work fine. if you can keep your gunns pointed with a high enough up time. an escort shooting a cruiser should have no trouble with that. i personally prefer some extra torp spike with my cannons, because i tend to fly some of the less maneuverable escorts, and cant always be pointed how i like.
an eng cant kill anything, best it can hope for is a stale mate
I am afraid beating that tac escort is near impossible, provided the pilot knows what he is doing.
As an engineer you cannot buff your damage enough, nor debuff your opponent enough. Energy weapons are the wrong approach, your best bet would be indeed kinetic damage. But the problem there is, if the tac escort puts some monotanium on and a Polarize Hull, he is protected.
It is possible to zombify an eng/cruiser build to survive duels against tac escorts. If you are zombie enough, you can even survive 100k crits.
By the way, a fleet patrol with 4 DHCs is still a very viable build. As a matter of fact, some of the most best escort players in the game (like Yoda, MT, Strike etc.) are still using 4 DHCs on their main tac escort builds. For a good reason. Tell them to their face that they are running fail builds.
Sad truth is, in order to win you need to switch to tac cruiser. You can whoop him with a tac excelsior.
I'll say it right now... they are running fail builds that only work against bad players... and with in a premade where a friendly 3 scis are going to be sub nuking people for them.
I think every premade that can't win with unless they have 3 sub nukes need to re examine there builds.
Can 4 dhc work against another half decent team any more ?
I don't think anyone can argue that it does... it only works if you nuke and often nuke and perhaps even have to nuke again.
DHC are spiky but lets be honest there not really spike are they... rapid fire is strong but even it is an over time dmg ability.
Killing an escort in a 1v1 with an engi cruiser.... ya know lots of us even laugh at the idea... but in this case our new forum friend isn't saying he wants to go into the ques and hunt escorts for a living. He wants to que with his friend whos build he knows and kill him once.
That is doable... and doing something unexpected like switching over to a mainly phasic build might just catch him once... and win this guy his moral victory. lol
Tactical: THY 1, Target Engines 2, target Shields 3,
Engineering: EPTS1+3, EPTW1x2, RSP1, EWP 3, Aux to Bat 1.
Science: Hazzard Emmiters 1, TSS2.
DOFFs: WHat ur using is OK.
Use as many DPS Consols as possible
Neutronium Armor
with COnsols that increase drain. You can make him useless, and get the advantage, Also use tricobalt mines, and a quantum torpedo.
Honestly it's more that there's too much defense on escorts then there is he has more skill. That's the issue we're all having and the people who deny it or spread the lies that it's skill only are the same people who nudged the devs into making escorts this powerful in the first place and want to keep this unfair advantage in pvp. That's what's really happening. Until they come to their senses and balance this game it will always be like that.
Tactical: THY 1, Target Engines 2, target Shields 3,
Engineering: EPTS1+3, EPTW1x2, RSP1, EWP 3, Aux to Bat 1.
Science: Hazzard Emmiters 1, TSS2.
DOFFs: WHat ur using is OK.
Use as many DPS Consols as possible
Neutronium Armor
with COnsols that increase drain. You can make him useless, and get the advantage, Also use tricobalt mines, and a quantum torpedo.
This might work as well.... target subs on a target you know has no engi team could work. Consider putting a couple of the subsystem doffs on if you can though... that would allow you to cycle a target sub every 15s.
If you guy have nothing against p2w consoles... consider a theta console as well... you mentioned he had human boffs, if he has points in sub system repair the combo of those will resist the disables of the target subs alot... but if you kill all his crew they might work better.
PS... one other thing to try with target subs.... is perhaps target engines 3 and target aux 2... I know that seems a bit odd right off... but if he doesn't have good power insulator spec... its possible the target aux might disable his aux based healing for a good amount of time... or at least really hurt it... if you time it well that might be hard for him to counter... and allow you to wear him down if he doesn't run.
Killing an escort in a 1v1 with an engi cruiser.... ya know lots of us even laugh at the idea... but in this case our new forum friend isn't saying he wants to go into the ques and hunt escorts for a living. He wants to que with his friend whos build he knows and kill him once.
That is doable... and doing something unexpected like switching over to a mainly phasic build might just catch him once... and win this guy his moral victory. lol
That's kind of the main difference with this thread... it's looking at a potential one-shot build. It's not a case of building a ship to hit the queues to rock 'n roll. It's a case of seeing the "enemy" build - knowing what the weaknesses of it are...and trying to do a sort of gimmick build for that one-shot.
I'll say it right now... they are running fail builds that only work against bad players... and with in a premade where a friendly 3 scis are going to be sub nuking people for them.
I think every premade that can't win with unless they have 3 sub nukes need to re examine there builds.
Can 4 dhc work against another half decent team any more ?
I don't think anyone can argue that it does... it only works if you nuke and often nuke and perhaps even have to nuke again.
DHC are spiky but lets be honest there not really spike are they... rapid fire is strong but even it is an over time dmg ability.
Killing an escort in a 1v1 with an engi cruiser.... ya know lots of us even laugh at the idea... but in this case our new forum friend isn't saying he wants to go into the ques and hunt escorts for a living. He wants to que with his friend whos build he knows and kill him once.
That is doable... and doing something unexpected like switching over to a mainly phasic build might just catch him once... and win this guy his moral victory. lol
But as soon as I take my bop in a 5v5 its not allowed. What am i supposed to do? :C
Didn't you see the disclaimer? Seriously? I put it at the top and at the bottom!
I highly recommend you ignore it.
edit: BTW, that's not a wink-wink-nudge-nudge don't do it. That's an honest to goodness I wouldn't recommend it.
Lol, of course I read the disclaimer and yes it sounds like a cray idea. However I have tried most everything else, so maybe its time for some crazy.
Now, I'm new to PvP in this game, but my pvp experience goes back a long time. Like all games I play, I sit back for a while, learn the classes, listen to experienced folks, and get a general feel before I dive into PvP. I am a min/maxer, born and raised
The thing is though, reading some of these suggestions, and other pvp threads for build ideas, some of the numbers people are claiming to be getting are staggering.
For example, that Transphasic build I had mentioned I tried (the one in the sticky called grim's breen transphasic build, I think). I hear quite a few people talking about torpedo and heck, anything's bleedthough damage being hundreds of damage with similar builds. With 9 points in torpedo, and 6 points in torpedo crit and him having nothing in hull plating skill, my torps only bleedthrough for about 150-200 damage with HY3. Heck even trying cannons, they only bleedthrough for under 50ish.
With him running with only one Neutronium console, the transphasic build was actually hitting him pretty hard. But with 2 of them, combined with 5 human doffs, even with him standing still .5 away, (to be cocky) there seems to be absolutely no way to get his shields down long enough in the 5 seconds between tac teams. He laughs that he has never hit HE1 or RSP once in 10 minutes of beating on him.
My last ditch hope was to turn it over to you guys for some help. Thanks very much for the advice, but I think the consensus is that it won't happen. It might just be time to abandon the engineer altogether. With the Elite fleet shields showing up more and more, even my heals aren't really needed. I really don't want to do the "can't beat em, join em" and just switch a tac in an escort, but between elite fleet shields, leadership stacking, and DHCs being the only thing that can do damage through either of those, I am finding it very hard to find any reason to continue playing an engineer, much less a fed cruiser.
I really do love the engineer ground side though. Can't stand tac or sci on the ground.
Maybe I should just switch to KDF, or wait for Romulans and see how their cruiser function? Will kind of suck starting a fleet over again, but at this point having a fleet where I can buy more cruisers won't really help anyway
Man I hate sounding like a whiner here, and I am sorry. Its just got me disheartened is all. I will try a few more builds, and pluck around with trying to make something work. Thanks guys, I really do appreciate it.
But as soon as I take my bop in a 5v5 its not allowed. What am i supposed to do? :C
Ummm I don't know not purposely run things that we know are bugged. :P
You got bort involved in a fix I'll give you that... seriously though if you don't want to get s*** for running your bop in pvp.... perhaps use an alt boff till its fixed. lol
Ummm I don't know not purposely run things that we know are bugged. :P
You got bort involved in a fix I'll give you that... seriously though if you don't want to get s*** for running your bop in pvp.... perhaps use an alt boff till its fixed. lol
It doesnt matter if i run a brel, a norgh, with or without the boffs they dont want me in my bop.
So my bop sucks, my bug sucks, what should i do? :C
Being an Engineer, you don't need the Heals like your friend does.
That being said, you could probably run a build with the following as a way to maximize a potential for the Engineer's capability to dish out damage despite a more maneuverable opponent.
Looking at his build, it is sound, but he's not quite as min/maxed as others I have run into.
His double APO is going to be difficult to deal with in order to slow him down. But that is why I am going to recommend a build that has already been stated: Aux 2 Bat.
You will want to run the following engineering powers:
EptS 1, Aux to bat 1, RSP 2 or Boarding Party (Depending on if you feel you need the extra protection of RSP 2 or not), Eject Warp Plasma 3
EptA 1, Aux to bat 1
Confused yet? You shouldn't be. Aux to battery 1x2 and the Duty officers (I use 2 Purple 1 Blue) will mean your Warp Plasma will be out ALL The time. There will be a near 100% up time of plasma in the area so that he'll have nearly no where to go but in plasma. Even with his Double Omega 1, it will eventually immobilize him.
Using Eject Warp Plasma Immobilization Doffs is a second way to guarantee this. Because that is the first thing you want to do.. Get him to Stop.
Next comes the offense. Which can be a mixture of any of the following options:
Tac team 1, Beam Overload 2, Beam Overload 3 or High Yield 2, High Yield 3, or HY 2 and Beam Overload 3
As an Engineer, you can produce extremely nasty Double taps with Beam Overload and Nadion Inversion. And with the Excelsior, you have the best turn rate of any Cruiser. Also with Dual Beam Banks and Torpedoes, you have a Front Arc that shouldn't be difficult to aim, especially if you have Warp Pee every where. I'd recommend 1 Dual beam bank, 1x Transphasic Cluster Torpedo, And then either 2x Transphasic Torpedoes, or even both the Romulan Plasma Torpedo and the Borg Plasma Torpedo.
In the Aft, you'll use Mines and Torpedoes. If you went Transphasic, then you'll continue the Theme with transphasic Mines and Torpedoes in the rear with 1x Transphasic Cluster torpedo in the Rear to go with your Transphasic Cluster torpedo in the fore Toping it off with the Borg Cutting Beam.
This leaves your Sci powers, which can easily just be Hazard 1, and Tractor Beam2 or Tractor Beam Repulsors 1.
This all depends on your play style, and which you feel might work best against him.. As well as if he is also reading this thread of yours and is prepared.
So, let's clean up that mess above to make it a bit more readable right?
Bridge officer Powers:
Tactical team 1, Dispersal Pattern Beta 1, Beam Overload 3
Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to the Battery 1, Boarding Party 2, Eject Warp Plasma 3
(This can also be changed Swapped to Boarding Party 3, And Eject Warp Plasma 1 if you are going to use the EWP just for the hold)
Emergency Power to Aux 1, Auxiliary to the Battery 1
Hazard Emitters 1, Tractor Beam Repulsors 1 or Tractor Beam 2
Duty officers:
3x Technicians (2 Purple Quality at least with 1 Blue Quality)
1x (Don't recall it's name, but the Warp Plasma Immobilizers)
1x (Chance to Create More Boarding Parties when launched)
Or 2x Torpedo Recharge doffs
Consoles will then depend on what your trying to do. If your trying to do damage with EWP, and TBR, you'll need Particle Generators, other wise it just depends on the goal.
If your going with a Torpedo based build, you might also want to consider getting the Adapted M.A.C.O 2 piece for the extra Torpedo damage they can give you.
Just remember, use the Beam Overload when you have your Nadion Inversion up, and try to Double Tap it.. What that means is, Activate Beam Overload, then wait until it's at about 2 Second left on the cool down before it recharges, Fire it, then Activate and Fire it again. If you do this with Nadion Inversion running it'll be extremely negligible weapon power drain even from both Beam Overloads. That should almost guarantee a shield facing down for a Torpedo launch, and with all the mines being deployed, with the Warp Plasma, you can also almost guarantee a crit, even with his double attack Pattern Omega 1's. And the Boarding Parties will help, if you can time it between his tac teams, to help keep him from moving.
Of course this entire thought process is more of a theory.. And for all I know you might have already tried something like this. But it's the best Idea I can come up with. Other wise listen to Antonio or Virus or Dontdrunkimshoot. Their builds may not be the most orthodox of concepts, but they will know what they are talking about. (And I'm sure I've already repeated some of their words with my suggestion.. lol)
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
and with in a premade where a friendly 3 scis are going to be sub nuking people for them. I think every premade that can't win with unless they have 3 sub nukes need to re examine there builds.
Science Captains and their Subnuke abilities are the most important part of any serious premade match. If you don't use Nukes, you will loose. This is not Season 1 anymore.
If your premade doesnt have enough nukes, you really need to re-examine your builds.
I am pretty sure MT and Yoda would gladly like to demonstrate their "fail" builds on you in escort 1v1s or 5v5 premades.
Lol, of course I read the disclaimer and yes it sounds like a cray idea. However I have tried most everything else, so maybe its time for some crazy.
Now, I'm new to PvP in this game, but my pvp experience goes back a long time. Like all games I play, I sit back for a while, learn the classes, listen to experienced folks, and get a general feel before I dive into PvP. I am a min/maxer, born and raised
The thing is though, reading some of these suggestions, and other pvp threads for build ideas, some of the numbers people are claiming to be getting are staggering.
For example, that Transphasic build I had mentioned I tried (the one in the sticky called grim's breen transphasic build, I think). I hear quite a few people talking about torpedo and heck, anything's bleedthough damage being hundreds of damage with similar builds. With 9 points in torpedo, and 6 points in torpedo crit and him having nothing in hull plating skill, my torps only bleedthrough for about 150-200 damage with HY3. Heck even trying cannons, they only bleedthrough for under 50ish.
With him running with only one Neutronium console, the transphasic build was actually hitting him pretty hard. But with 2 of them, combined with 5 human doffs, even with him standing still .5 away, (to be cocky) there seems to be absolutely no way to get his shields down long enough in the 5 seconds between tac teams. He laughs that he has never hit HE1 or RSP once in 10 minutes of beating on him.
My last ditch hope was to turn it over to you guys for some help. Thanks very much for the advice, but I think the consensus is that it won't happen. It might just be time to abandon the engineer altogether. With the Elite fleet shields showing up more and more, even my heals aren't really needed. I really don't want to do the "can't beat em, join em" and just switch a tac in an escort, but between elite fleet shields, leadership stacking, and DHCs being the only thing that can do damage through either of those, I am finding it very hard to find any reason to continue playing an engineer, much less a fed cruiser.
I really do love the engineer ground side though. Can't stand tac or sci on the ground.
Maybe I should just switch to KDF, or wait for Romulans and see how their cruiser function? Will kind of suck starting a fleet over again, but at this point having a fleet where I can buy more cruisers won't really help anyway
Man I hate sounding like a whiner here, and I am sorry. Its just got me disheartened is all. I will try a few more builds, and pluck around with trying to make something work. Thanks guys, I really do appreciate it.
This is a bit excessive don't stop yet lol
Ok I run a fleet torkhat which console wise is a fleet excelsior in disguise I think(never been fed side for a while)
Now I'm playing around with running beams and torps on it yes it doesn't have burst buy I can kill most things primarily because I can outlast most things nadion is your friend use it
I run 5 array one dual and a cluster torp fore with romulan super torp rear
Through some beam overload mixed with a double packed target shields 3 works a treat now I'm quite sleepy so I've only skimmed over the thread
I always kvf and alongside oddys, patrols and defiance are my first target I will agree that in a tac PVp is much easier but in an eng It's arguably more funnier especially watching decent PVpers fly away from you because your sustained damage has them on the edge and they haven't scratched you( I don't know if there decent PVpers just from what I've seen on the ques)
Don't quit now work around it take this guy out! Virus dancers build is about the best idea(haven't used it) from what I can see! whatever your choice been cluster torp and plasma fire is the route to go especially on speed tankers
Don't stop yet it took me a year and a half to get to where I'm at now and I suck but if there is one phase that should be written on the rear of every players ship be it fed or kdf it's
Practice practice practice
Oh and the phase "don't abuse bugs" like the one that manipulates the nebula whoever that was all day yesterday I hope you die a horrible death and end up in hell
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
Plasma dot is disgusting lately slot 2 Proj doffs to literally spam rommie torps like crazy until he blows his hazard emitters at that point get another dot or two rotate and hit with hyperflux, the APD/B, and the breen torp. He should go boom.
Comments
What you need is Spike... that he can't heal.
Forget about going all beams or all cannons... you will never ever spike an escort down with just energy unless he is really dumb enough to sit in front of you and not move off to heal.
You probaly are going to want to run an aux to bat build.
You will need 3 tech doffs to make that work... purple ones are really idea... but for the purpose of a simple 1v1 dual you might be able to get away with 3 blues.
I would run....
2 Tetryon (or better phased tetryon) cannons... with 2 Torps in front. Transphasic (you can use the rapid fire phasics from the mission for a bit faster fire rate)
In the rear I would put 2 turrets a cutting beam and a breen cluster torp. ( use torp consoles... so what ever turrets you have will do you don't have to spend any more ec... who cares rainbow it up)
For consoles... go with all torp consoles. (this is going to be about spiking him) the tet weapons are just there to keep some preasure on him... and if your lucky you might proc the shield strip a few times in a row and get him in trouble if you time your buffs well.
Skills I would use...
DEM 3 ( with tech doffs this will be up almost all the time)
Consider dropping your EPTS 3 to EPTS 2... and get a Warp Plasma to go with.
Run Aux to Bat 1... so you can proc your doffs.
Run Spread 3 and rapid 1.
For doffs... 3 tech doffs like I mentioned... and 2 Torp Doffs.... you won't need the dmg control the Tech doffs will do the same thing for you.
If you use that I am sure you could take him out.... or at least force him to run... and every time he runs laugh at him. If he gets behind you and sits on your tail... launch the breen cluster in his face... with the phasic consoles in it has a good chance even from an engi to one shot him.
I'm not sure what you got for sci skills going on...
However if your full rep... and if you have a embassy shield console or two.
You can likely afford to not run a Transfer Shield Strength if you are.
So something like
hazards 1 + Tractor beam repulsors 1 could be a nice boost to the direct to hull theme.
Use your TBR right after you aux to bat and it won't push at all....
Also you mentioned he was using 2 copies of omega... omega will make him immune to the push but he'll still take all the dmg from it.
Fleet Excelsior w/ Eng Captain
Traits - Accurate, Elusive, Techie, Warp Theorist
Passives
New Rom - Precision, Emergency Secondary Shielding, (QSM)
Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Amplifier
TT1, BO2, APO1
EPtS1, BP1, AtS2, EWP3
EPtW1, RSP1
ET1
TSS1, TBR1
1x Rom Tac BOFF, 4x Human BOFFs
DOFFs - SDO(BFI), 3x DCE(EPt), MAS(EWP)
Deflector - MACO Mk XII
Engine - Aegis
Shield - MACO Mk XII
Weapons
Fore - Experimental Beam Array, 2x Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2[CrtH], Breen Cluster
Aft - Cutting Beam, Hyper-Plasma Torp, Plasma Mines Mk XII [CrtD][CrtH]x2, Breen Cluster
Consoles
Tac - 3x Plasma Infuser Mk XI, Trans Compressor Mk XI
Eng - Borg, 0Point, Tachyo, Neut Mk XI
Sci - 2x Rom PrtG [Pla]
Devices - Aux Batt, Shield Batt, Scorpions, Trans Torp Platform
See? Nothing you want here. :rolleyes:
The premise, mind you - is telling him after he goes outside of 10km that he forfeited. If a boxer steps out of the ring...lalalalala. He can always try to schedule a rematch if he likes.
DISCLAIMER: Don't use this build. Don't use anything from this build. Unless somebody else suggests that you do use something from it (either directly, which is unlikely - or - they post it in another build). I just like posting somewhat out of the box/flaky builds when somebody talks about builds. It's a creative process. Often though, there are things that I would do with said build that simply are not communicated by the build when seen in a forum post - so even if it were something I were to fly, I couldn't explain why I flew it or how it worked - I know how, I just wouldn't be very good at explaining it.
Perhaps 4DHC is last year, but we have only been playing for 5 months or so, so we are little behind the curve, hehe. I would have to ask you for his sake how does one spike through nearly max SDR solo?
And he doesn't just sit there normally. He usually just sits at 1/4 impulse and rotates around as I try desperately to turn. I do manage to play some evasive tactics him, but he knows at this point without a doubt that he doesn't need to run away or get off my butt because nothing I can dish out is threatening enough to force him to retreat.
This was actually kind of close to what I most recently tried, though not with entirely a batt build. I tried (just for kicks) an all out transphasic build. 3 rapid reloads and a cluster in the front, 1 rapid reload, a cluster, and 2 trans mine launchers in the back. 2 breen set pieces (for the set bonus) and 4 trans tac consoles. I switched out some boffs to run EPtS2 like you said, with EWP and DEM3. EWP ticked for 300ish dmg per tick (granted no points in particle or grav, whichever it is) and DEM3 made me go from roughly 30-40 hull bleedthrough dmg per shot, to maybe 70-90. Still well within the capacity for his hull to regen, something like 158%/sec.
What I found most interesting is while the rapids would hit for roughly 300-400 hull dmg (with 9 points in torp damage, 6 in torp crit), the cluster would spike him down to roughly 80%, 70% for a crit. However given the piddly damage between everything else, his hull would regen up to 100% in about 6 seconds, completely nullifying any damage done. However, for testing purposes, he removed one of his resist consoles (Neut). I actually got him down to low 20's% before he ran away. Now, I would like to consider this winning the bet, but since it is not what he normally uses, I cannot.
I have poured over every PvP cruiser build in here that I can find (this torp boat was way down on the list of things I thought would be effective), and I have looked very closely at the batt build. The main reason for this build, I think anyway, is to be able to chain powers that you don't have room for 2 of. My doffs seem to take care of that for the most part, at least on tac and engy skills (for this build I had TS2 and TS3). I am not discounting the build, or bashing your advice or anything. I am just saying maybe I am missing something in the layout.
Our fighting back and forth didn't seem to be an issue before leadership was fixed. We actually had some pretty good fights back and forth.
Use a tractor beam and subspace jump/Grav Well. It works wonders.
Nope, not unless a) he's a poor tank in an escort or b) you're in a cruiser that can equip dual heavy cannons.
With the right powers an escort can resist DHC's almost as well as a cruiser. As such anything less then DHC's will just tickle them (unless buffed by tac captain powers, but even then they aren't a major hazard in a 1v1). This goes especially if he's using the 2x piece borg set, which reliably heals sustained damage done by beam arrays and cannons.
From the looks of his build, you have no chance of killing him unless he's a bad player.
Virusdancers build is probably going to be the closest you're going to get.
Oh and don't bother with EWP, it's rather useless against decent escorts, especially ones with 2x APO.
If you're into beating someone in a 1v1 and are stuck with playing fed, I'd recommend getting either a sci ship (load it out with 2x VM and system engineer doffs) or an escort. Or wait until the Gal-X gets saucer sep.
Only in making the escort player laugh his TRIBBLE off.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Unless you have high Aux... Then he sits there for 10 seconds, target his sheild systems, and open up with torps....
He's not a bad player, so this is pretty much what I was afraid of on the DHC front. Seems kind of annoying that given how many people are starting to show up with elite fleet shields, escorts can now tank as well, (if not better than a cruiser as cruisers aren't prime targets, thus stacking resists) as a cruiser.
I can't really do any damage, people are needing my heals less and less, but I can keep myself alive....though I am never a target. I didn't really want to turn this into a complain about cruisers thread, but what exactly is the point of fed cruisers now?
I never really understood the validity of EWP against escorts, or Grav Well for that matter.
I will try Virus's build out and see how it goes. Last ditch effort I suppose.
There is no ENG cruiser in game that can kill and escort.
I am afraid beating that tac escort is near impossible, provided the pilot knows what he is doing.
As an engineer you cannot buff your damage enough, nor debuff your opponent enough. Energy weapons are the wrong approach, your best bet would be indeed kinetic damage. But the problem there is, if the tac escort puts some monotanium on and a Polarize Hull, he is protected.
It is possible to zombify an eng/cruiser build to survive duels against tac escorts. If you are zombie enough, you can even survive 100k crits.
By the way, a fleet patrol with 4 DHCs is still a very viable build. As a matter of fact, some of the most best escort players in the game (like Yoda, MT, Strike etc.) are still using 4 DHCs on their main tac escort builds. For a good reason. Tell them to their face that they are running fail builds.
Sad truth is, in order to win you need to switch to tac cruiser. You can whoop him with a tac excelsior.
Didn't you see the disclaimer? Seriously? I put it at the top and at the bottom!
I highly recommend you ignore it.
So it goes something like this...
Escorts like to follow Cruisers and sit on their butts, because face it - the Cruiser is not going to out turn the Escort and the Escort wants to avoid as much broadside as possible. It's they're favorite spot, right?
When you drop the warp poo on him, he's going to be along the lines of whatever as he pops HE/EM to get out of it. Odds are though, he's still going to be flying in a certain direction - toward you. So you TBR him. That's going to be pushing him back toward the warp poo he thought he just escaped. He doesn't want that. He's going to hit APO. Course, unlike PH - APO doesn't offer the hull resist. So he's going to be taking some hull damage.
While he's thinking about the TBR coming from in front of him and the warp poo behind him (possibly around him) - he may not notice the Hyper-Plasma torps, the Breen Cluster, nor the Boarding Parties that are coming his way.
As he does notice them and contemplates what to do, you've probably run into the period of time where his HE has expired. Which is a nifty time to get broadside and just tickle him with the Arrays/Cutting Beam. Go ahead and drop the Trans Platform as well. He's probably getting a little angry at the moment, since you've basically been spamming him - trying to make him sit - push him around. And there you are not really doing any damage so to speak. Around this time the triggered CD on the fore Breen should be gone, so it's a case of hitting APO, BO+Hyperflux the Experimental Beam, flying straight at him - dropping the Breen just as you pass and the Plasma mines right after you pass...and of course another stream of Hyper-Plasma torps will shoot out your butt at him.
So he's there - with the Hyperflux burn and HDR debuff on him. He's getting hit by the Trans Platform, the fore Breen Cluster is about to say hello, there are some mines about to go pop, he's got the Hyper-Plasma torps coming at him, and well - his HE's still on CD. His Borg set might proc. Pesky RNG. Or it might not.
Course, it's not long before he has HE available again - and - he's probably going to be using it to try to heal his hull some and deal with the Plasma he's got going on. So of course though, you're going to hit EM, hit reverse and head left/right (your choice), then go forward again turning toward him...and...drop warp poo again - drop aft Breen Cluster - drop some Plasma mines...etc.
He's going to APO away from you this time - so no TBR of course.
Thing to consider here, is that you want to spend the majority of your time at 24 or higher impulse - if you've got Elusive, 9 Maneuvers, going 24+ impulse, have the Aegis engines - you're looking at +75% Bonus Defense. If he's got Accurate, 9 Targeting, and is running [Acc]x2 weapons - he's got +45 Bonus Accuracy. He's basically looking at a 71.4% To-Hit. He's not going to be hitting as often as he would like. He's not going to be hitting as often as he might have expected. That's also not taking into account the Bonus Defense you'd have from when APO or EM were up.
It's an attrition build. It's also a gimmick build. It's a very gimmick build. One of the reasons that I stuck two disclaimers instead of just one. Depending on his experience fighting something of that nature, it's just not going to be as effective. I know what I would do differently were I in his place fighting you with that build.
So yeah, like I said - I wouldn't recommend it. I might run it if I had an Excelsior (I'm not a fan of the 3 Eng En BOFFs)...but even that would be iffy. Maybe for the lawlz in Ker'rat with other folks around that might offer some additional support or take the guy out while he's being po'd at me...but yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend it.
edit: BTW, that's not a wink-wink-nudge-nudge don't do it. That's an honest to goodness I wouldn't recommend it.
an eng cant kill anything, best it can hope for is a stale mate
4x Plasma Cannons + 4x Plasma Turrets. As many +Pla Embassy consoles as you can muster.
2x Aux to Batt + DEM 3. EWP if you can afford it as well.
I'll say it right now... they are running fail builds that only work against bad players... and with in a premade where a friendly 3 scis are going to be sub nuking people for them.
I think every premade that can't win with unless they have 3 sub nukes need to re examine there builds.
Can 4 dhc work against another half decent team any more ?
I don't think anyone can argue that it does... it only works if you nuke and often nuke and perhaps even have to nuke again.
DHC are spiky but lets be honest there not really spike are they... rapid fire is strong but even it is an over time dmg ability.
Killing an escort in a 1v1 with an engi cruiser.... ya know lots of us even laugh at the idea... but in this case our new forum friend isn't saying he wants to go into the ques and hunt escorts for a living. He wants to que with his friend whos build he knows and kill him once.
That is doable... and doing something unexpected like switching over to a mainly phasic build might just catch him once... and win this guy his moral victory. lol
Tactical: THY 1, Target Engines 2, target Shields 3,
Engineering: EPTS1+3, EPTW1x2, RSP1, EWP 3, Aux to Bat 1.
Science: Hazzard Emmiters 1, TSS2.
DOFFs: WHat ur using is OK.
Use as many DPS Consols as possible
Neutronium Armor
with COnsols that increase drain. You can make him useless, and get the advantage, Also use tricobalt mines, and a quantum torpedo.
This might work as well.... target subs on a target you know has no engi team could work. Consider putting a couple of the subsystem doffs on if you can though... that would allow you to cycle a target sub every 15s.
If you guy have nothing against p2w consoles... consider a theta console as well... you mentioned he had human boffs, if he has points in sub system repair the combo of those will resist the disables of the target subs alot... but if you kill all his crew they might work better.
PS... one other thing to try with target subs.... is perhaps target engines 3 and target aux 2... I know that seems a bit odd right off... but if he doesn't have good power insulator spec... its possible the target aux might disable his aux based healing for a good amount of time... or at least really hurt it... if you time it well that might be hard for him to counter... and allow you to wear him down if he doesn't run.
That's kind of the main difference with this thread... it's looking at a potential one-shot build. It's not a case of building a ship to hit the queues to rock 'n roll. It's a case of seeing the "enemy" build - knowing what the weaknesses of it are...and trying to do a sort of gimmick build for that one-shot.
But as soon as I take my bop in a 5v5 its not allowed. What am i supposed to do? :C
Lol, of course I read the disclaimer and yes it sounds like a cray idea. However I have tried most everything else, so maybe its time for some crazy.
Now, I'm new to PvP in this game, but my pvp experience goes back a long time. Like all games I play, I sit back for a while, learn the classes, listen to experienced folks, and get a general feel before I dive into PvP. I am a min/maxer, born and raised
The thing is though, reading some of these suggestions, and other pvp threads for build ideas, some of the numbers people are claiming to be getting are staggering.
For example, that Transphasic build I had mentioned I tried (the one in the sticky called grim's breen transphasic build, I think). I hear quite a few people talking about torpedo and heck, anything's bleedthough damage being hundreds of damage with similar builds. With 9 points in torpedo, and 6 points in torpedo crit and him having nothing in hull plating skill, my torps only bleedthrough for about 150-200 damage with HY3. Heck even trying cannons, they only bleedthrough for under 50ish.
With him running with only one Neutronium console, the transphasic build was actually hitting him pretty hard. But with 2 of them, combined with 5 human doffs, even with him standing still .5 away, (to be cocky) there seems to be absolutely no way to get his shields down long enough in the 5 seconds between tac teams. He laughs that he has never hit HE1 or RSP once in 10 minutes of beating on him.
My last ditch hope was to turn it over to you guys for some help. Thanks very much for the advice, but I think the consensus is that it won't happen. It might just be time to abandon the engineer altogether. With the Elite fleet shields showing up more and more, even my heals aren't really needed. I really don't want to do the "can't beat em, join em" and just switch a tac in an escort, but between elite fleet shields, leadership stacking, and DHCs being the only thing that can do damage through either of those, I am finding it very hard to find any reason to continue playing an engineer, much less a fed cruiser.
I really do love the engineer ground side though. Can't stand tac or sci on the ground.
Maybe I should just switch to KDF, or wait for Romulans and see how their cruiser function? Will kind of suck starting a fleet over again, but at this point having a fleet where I can buy more cruisers won't really help anyway
Man I hate sounding like a whiner here, and I am sorry. Its just got me disheartened is all. I will try a few more builds, and pluck around with trying to make something work. Thanks guys, I really do appreciate it.
Ummm I don't know not purposely run things that we know are bugged. :P
You got bort involved in a fix I'll give you that... seriously though if you don't want to get s*** for running your bop in pvp.... perhaps use an alt boff till its fixed. lol
It doesnt matter if i run a brel, a norgh, with or without the boffs they dont want me in my bop.
So my bop sucks, my bug sucks, what should i do? :C
Who doesn't want you in your bop ?
Fly your bop proud buddy.
The winy feds be darned. lol
That being said, you could probably run a build with the following as a way to maximize a potential for the Engineer's capability to dish out damage despite a more maneuverable opponent.
Looking at his build, it is sound, but he's not quite as min/maxed as others I have run into.
His double APO is going to be difficult to deal with in order to slow him down. But that is why I am going to recommend a build that has already been stated: Aux 2 Bat.
You will want to run the following engineering powers:
EptS 1, Aux to bat 1, RSP 2 or Boarding Party (Depending on if you feel you need the extra protection of RSP 2 or not), Eject Warp Plasma 3
EptA 1, Aux to bat 1
Confused yet? You shouldn't be. Aux to battery 1x2 and the Duty officers (I use 2 Purple 1 Blue) will mean your Warp Plasma will be out ALL The time. There will be a near 100% up time of plasma in the area so that he'll have nearly no where to go but in plasma. Even with his Double Omega 1, it will eventually immobilize him.
Using Eject Warp Plasma Immobilization Doffs is a second way to guarantee this. Because that is the first thing you want to do.. Get him to Stop.
Next comes the offense. Which can be a mixture of any of the following options:
Tac team 1, Beam Overload 2, Beam Overload 3 or High Yield 2, High Yield 3, or HY 2 and Beam Overload 3
As an Engineer, you can produce extremely nasty Double taps with Beam Overload and Nadion Inversion. And with the Excelsior, you have the best turn rate of any Cruiser. Also with Dual Beam Banks and Torpedoes, you have a Front Arc that shouldn't be difficult to aim, especially if you have Warp Pee every where. I'd recommend 1 Dual beam bank, 1x Transphasic Cluster Torpedo, And then either 2x Transphasic Torpedoes, or even both the Romulan Plasma Torpedo and the Borg Plasma Torpedo.
In the Aft, you'll use Mines and Torpedoes. If you went Transphasic, then you'll continue the Theme with transphasic Mines and Torpedoes in the rear with 1x Transphasic Cluster torpedo in the Rear to go with your Transphasic Cluster torpedo in the fore Toping it off with the Borg Cutting Beam.
This leaves your Sci powers, which can easily just be Hazard 1, and Tractor Beam2 or Tractor Beam Repulsors 1.
This all depends on your play style, and which you feel might work best against him.. As well as if he is also reading this thread of yours and is prepared.
So, let's clean up that mess above to make it a bit more readable right?
Weapons:
Fore: 1x Breen Cluster torpedo, 1x Dual Beam Bank, 1x Romulan High Yield Torpedo, 1x Transphasic Torpedo
Aft: 2x Transphasic Mine Launcher, 1x Breen Cluster Torpedo, 1x Cutting Beam
Bridge officer Powers:
Tactical team 1, Dispersal Pattern Beta 1, Beam Overload 3
Emergency Power to Shields 1, Auxiliary to the Battery 1, Boarding Party 2, Eject Warp Plasma 3
(This can also be changed Swapped to Boarding Party 3, And Eject Warp Plasma 1 if you are going to use the EWP just for the hold)
Emergency Power to Aux 1, Auxiliary to the Battery 1
Hazard Emitters 1, Tractor Beam Repulsors 1 or Tractor Beam 2
Duty officers:
3x Technicians (2 Purple Quality at least with 1 Blue Quality)
1x (Don't recall it's name, but the Warp Plasma Immobilizers)
1x (Chance to Create More Boarding Parties when launched)
Or 2x Torpedo Recharge doffs
Consoles will then depend on what your trying to do. If your trying to do damage with EWP, and TBR, you'll need Particle Generators, other wise it just depends on the goal.
If your going with a Torpedo based build, you might also want to consider getting the Adapted M.A.C.O 2 piece for the extra Torpedo damage they can give you.
Just remember, use the Beam Overload when you have your Nadion Inversion up, and try to Double Tap it.. What that means is, Activate Beam Overload, then wait until it's at about 2 Second left on the cool down before it recharges, Fire it, then Activate and Fire it again. If you do this with Nadion Inversion running it'll be extremely negligible weapon power drain even from both Beam Overloads. That should almost guarantee a shield facing down for a Torpedo launch, and with all the mines being deployed, with the Warp Plasma, you can also almost guarantee a crit, even with his double attack Pattern Omega 1's. And the Boarding Parties will help, if you can time it between his tac teams, to help keep him from moving.
Of course this entire thought process is more of a theory.. And for all I know you might have already tried something like this. But it's the best Idea I can come up with. Other wise listen to Antonio or Virus or Dontdrunkimshoot. Their builds may not be the most orthodox of concepts, but they will know what they are talking about. (And I'm sure I've already repeated some of their words with my suggestion.. lol)
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
So, the arguably best pilots that this game has to offer are fail? And the premades they are part of (TRH, Sad Pandas), are they fail too?
Crazy talk much?
Science Captains and their Subnuke abilities are the most important part of any serious premade match. If you don't use Nukes, you will loose. This is not Season 1 anymore.
If your premade doesnt have enough nukes, you really need to re-examine your builds.
I am pretty sure MT and Yoda would gladly like to demonstrate their "fail" builds on you in escort 1v1s or 5v5 premades.
This is a bit excessive don't stop yet lol
Ok I run a fleet torkhat which console wise is a fleet excelsior in disguise I think(never been fed side for a while)
Now I'm playing around with running beams and torps on it yes it doesn't have burst buy I can kill most things primarily because I can outlast most things nadion is your friend use it
I run 5 array one dual and a cluster torp fore with romulan super torp rear
Through some beam overload mixed with a double packed target shields 3 works a treat now I'm quite sleepy so I've only skimmed over the thread
I always kvf and alongside oddys, patrols and defiance are my first target I will agree that in a tac PVp is much easier but in an eng It's arguably more funnier especially watching decent PVpers fly away from you because your sustained damage has them on the edge and they haven't scratched you( I don't know if there decent PVpers just from what I've seen on the ques)
Don't quit now work around it take this guy out! Virus dancers build is about the best idea(haven't used it) from what I can see! whatever your choice been cluster torp and plasma fire is the route to go especially on speed tankers
Don't stop yet it took me a year and a half to get to where I'm at now and I suck but if there is one phase that should be written on the rear of every players ship be it fed or kdf it's
Practice practice practice
Oh and the phase "don't abuse bugs" like the one that manipulates the nebula whoever that was all day yesterday I hope you die a horrible death and end up in hell
Aft: Romulan BA, 2 Plasma Turret, 1x Breen Cluster Torp
Tac: TT 1, THY 2, APD(or
Eng: EPtS 1, Aux2Bat, RSP or Aux2ID, DEM3
Eng: EPtE 1, Aux2Bat
Sci: TB 1, HE 2
Consoles: +Plasma Energy, +embassy consoles
Plasma dot is disgusting lately slot 2 Proj doffs to literally spam rommie torps like crazy until he blows his hazard emitters at that point get another dot or two rotate and hit with hyperflux, the APD/B, and the breen torp. He should go boom.