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reman deflector: +30 stealth values

rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
edited March 2013 in PvP Gameplay
The description for the purple reman deflector states:

+30 to stealth values
AggroStealth

Does anyone know how this stealth ability works? Is it only pve related, hence the aggro part.
If I equip the deflector my stealth is not increased whereas when I equip the honor guard deflector stealth is increased. So whats the deal?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
Post edited by rudiefix1 on

Comments

  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    basically +30 skill points into your stealth skill. it adds to your skill tree stealth value
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    edit: First of all though, where are you seeing the Aggro part? I don't see that on them.

    If it's saying Stealth Value, shouldn't it be Stealth Value as laid out in this post by Bort?

    30 Stealth Value would add +30 to your overall Stealth Value.
    30 Starship Stealth Skill would only add +15 Stealth Value.

    The VR Mk XII Reman Deflector is:
    +30 Stealth Value
    +39.4 Inertial Dampeners
    +39.4 Graviton Generators
    +39.4 26.2 Subspace Decompiler

    The VR Mk XII Romulan Deflector is:
    +15 Stealth Value
    +2% Starship Stealth Detection
    +39.4 Inertial Dampeners
    +39.4 Graviton Generators
    +39.4 26.2 Subspace Decompiler

    The Rom's adding +30 Starship Stealth Skill (to get the +15 Stealth Value) and that +2% detection is 200 SDR which is like 133 Starship Sensors Skill (1.5 SDR per Sensors Skill).

    The topic in the Tribble notes section that I pulled the from has some additional notes on Stealth as well: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=579331
    In order to help clarify why these changes to Stealth were necessary, I feel like it's important to make sure that everybody has a clearer understanding on the way Stealth values work in general.

    Any time you attempt to view a cloaked target, there are two figures which are brought into consideration:

    YOU: Perception (which can be modified by StealthSight, which I'll explain separately)
    THEM: Stealth

    For the purposes of calculating the distance at which you can see through an enemy's cloak, the formula is very simple:

    Perception - Stealth = Viewable Distance

    Perception, for all players and critters, begins at a base value of 5000. Meanwhile, a Standard Cloak, with 50 Aux and no +Stealth skill, has a Stealth Value of 4975. (*This value is easily viewable on the ability's tooltip.)

    5000 - 4975 = 25

    "Viewable Distance" in STO's system space regions very simply equates to distance units, at a 1:50 ratio. So when you divide by 50, this gives you the resulting UI measurement in kilometers.

    25 / 50 = .5km

    What this means is that a player using an unbuffed Cloak, vs. another player or critter with an unbuffed Perception, will be invisible until they get within a distance of 0.5km or less.

    This also means that every +50 of Stealth Value you add to your Cloak/MES values results in an extra 1.0km of distance you can approach your target before being seen. And that +Perception values are a linear decrease to that distance when attempting to see Cloaked enemies.

    Every +1 Starship Stealth skill point grants you +0.5 Stealth Value on a linear scale. So the Bridge Officer Trait "Basic Subterfuge" which now provides a +100 Starship Stealth skill boost, provides you with an extra +50 Stealth Value when using Cloaking abilities. Or 1km of extra distance before being detected by enemies.

    StealthSight is a bit more complicated. Instead of being a linear bonus to Perception Values, it is what we call internally a "Strength Factor." The way to calculate the actual Perception gained from your Stealth Detection Rating (or SDR) is as follows:

    5000 * (1 + (SDR / 10000))

    So, a SDR of 300 gives you a total perception of:

    5000 * (1 + (0.03)) = 5150

    And, just like Stealth Values, the Perception scale is linear and applies directly to distance units at the same ratio of 1:50. So a bonus Perception of 150 in this example, allows you to perceive Cloaked enemies (150 / 50 = ) 3.0km further away than you previously could with an SDR of 0.

    Given the values at play here, I hope you now understand why percentage-based bonuses were simply not working along a reasonable scale.

    For example, the previous implementation of Basic Subterfuge granted a +5% to Stealth Values. When applied to a standard unskilled Cloak, this brought its Stealth Value from 4975 all the way up to 5223.75 ... a difference of almost 250 Stealth, or almost 5.0km of additional Stealth distance units. That's a pretty massive bonus, and one that was only further exacerbated by the previously-available ability to stack multiple Bridge Officers with such bonuses. By replacing those percentage-based increases with more reasonable, linear bonuses, the Stealth mechanic can be more easily balanced.
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited March 2013
    edit: First of all though, where are you seeing the Aggro part? I don't see that on them.

    When you open the additional description by clicking with the right-mouse button, you will see in yellow the "AggroStealth" part.

    And like I said, when you equip the deflector, it does not increase your stealth (at least not visible in your space based skills, whereas the honor guard deflector does).

    So i still dont get it
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    @rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
    @rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
    @rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    rudiefix1 wrote: »
    When you open the additional description by clicking with the right-mouse button, you will see in yellow the "AggroStealth" part.

    And like I said, when you equip the deflector, it does not increase your stealth (at least not visible in your space based skills, whereas the honor guard deflector does).

    So i still dont get it

    It's not boosting skills. You should see the increase/difference - while in normal space (not sector/not ground) when you hover over cloak on your ability bar.
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited March 2013
    It's not boosting skills. You should see the increase/difference - while in normal space (not sector/not ground) when you hover over cloak on your ability bar.

    nope. not seeing it. only for the honor guard deflector...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    @rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
    @rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
    @rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    With the KHG Deflector - you should see that +8.8 to your Starship Stealth Skill and +4.4 to the Stealth Value when you hover over the Cloak ability while in normal space. Switching that for the Reman Deflector should show a significant difference - if not, definitely something you should bug report. Neither a Google search nor a search of the Gameplay Bugs forums found anything like that...doesn't mean that it's not there, could just be I haven't had my caffeine yet.
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited March 2013
    I checked it this weekend with 2 more toons. As we both mentioned, the KHG deflector does increase stealth. But the reman does not. Also the purple romulan mk xii deflector (+15 stealth values) does not increase stealth. Not in skill IU and not when hover over the cloak. I posted my findings in the bug forum
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    @rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
    @rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
    @rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
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