Over the past few months I've made the jump in to PvP. I've found it to be a very steep learning curve. I do miss using certain abilities as they're completely useless in PvP however for the most part I'm finding myself having a great time.
I feel that it needs one major improvement, however. It needs dedicated Pre-made and PUG queues.
Sometime a player just wants to go in by himself without their fleet as it suits their timing. Or maybe a player has 10 or so minutes before they have to do something else and there's not enough time to coordinate with their fleet. Regardless of the many reasons there are times that a player will need to go in to a queue by themselves.
And then they come across one of the super-PvP fleets fronting a pre-made. And then they die and die and die and die because no PUG can ever really compete with them. And then the experience feels like a waste of time and it ceases to become enjoyable.
By no means am I begrudging the people who refine their skills to the degree that they're seemingly immortal. They work hard to achieve that level and that shouldn't be taken away from them. Still, shouldn't they be pitted against other pre-mades so that they can really test their skill and be confronted with the real prospect of losing rather than being presented with a straight up slaughter?
Having a pre-made and PUG queue will support the PUGgers who are looking for a quick game or are trying to refine their skills away from the uber-killers. A pre-made queue will provide those uber-killers with the challenge that they rightfully deserve.
Overall, I think the game can only benefit from this. Thoughts?
We don't have the playerbase to support it, queue times would be bad, for one or the other if not both. From what I can tell there really aren't that many fleet premades out there (about 7 that I can remember seeing in the queues), you're more likely to run into an organizedPvP pugmade IMO.
That being said those big mean fleet premades aren't invincible. You'd be surprised what a pug can accomplish with a simple T "team Target >> $target <<" keybind as long as someone is willing to lead and the rest comply.
Pre-mades from fleets that don't usually field pre-mades aren't horrible to face, since they usually have a few players in PvE builds, who might have very little experience.
On the other hand, if you take a couple of the serious PvPers in their best ships and put them in PUGs, those PUGs usually do very well. There are a few names that I've almost never seen on a loosing PUG team, or even if they lose they still squeak out 8 or 10 kills even against pre-mades.
Seriously if you have one person on a PUG who calls targets and chooses them wisely, and the rest of the PUG follows, then you have 90% of the coordination a premade has. The rest of the difference comes from individual player skill, ship builds, etc., and there's nothing stopping those players from PUGging too.
Basically if you have a premade that comes from a fleet doing their PvP night, with a mix of experience levels and builds which might or might not be optimized, a group of more focused PvPers who just have someone with a target keybind can and often will win, PUG or not.
If anything matching should somehow weigh experience levels. I' know that's difficult, but I've seen games that do it.
Overall, I think the game can only benefit from this. Thoughts?
Main issue is that there are not enough pre-formed teams to actually maintain a full queue for it, and in fact the PvP ques in general have such a low population overall that separation would do more harm then good at this point.
We don't have the playerbase to support it, queue times would be bad, for one or the other if not both. From what I can tell there really aren't that many fleet premades out there (about 7 that I can remember seeing in the queues), you're more likely to run into an organizedPvP pugmade IMO.
That being said those big mean fleet premades aren't invincible. You'd be surprised what a pug can accomplish with a simple T "team Target >> $target <<" keybind as long as someone is willing to lead and the rest comply.
This. I'll also add that having a solo-queue only without any checks or balances to make matches based on player skill, captain/ship combinations, and to a lesser degree gear, isn't really gonna work out any better. You'll still get teamed up against players that are used to working as a team and have a fairly well balanced selection of ships at their disposal while your team is 2 Eng/Escorts, 1 Tac/Cruisers (beams) and one lone Sci Guy who's just there to enjoy having a bunch of shiny buttons to press.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
This. I'll also add that having a solo-queue only without any checks or balances to make matches based on player skill, captain/ship combinations, and to a lesser degree gear, isn't really gonna work out any better. You'll still get teamed up against players that are used to working as a team and have a fairly well balanced selection of ships at their disposal while your team is 2 Eng/Escorts, 1 Tac/Cruisers (beams) and one lone Sci Guy who's just there to enjoy having a bunch of shiny buttons to press.
I agree with everybody that pug stomping is vital to keeping the queues active. It has really made the community grow.
Leaderboards, or anything interfering with the current system of auto teaming would be bad. I mean who needs tech to make sure that 5v3 matches stop happening. Or that afk'ers can get kicked. ..... Love the queues
On a serious note FvF queues need to disappear. if any fed thinks that they have populations and waiting times issues take a look at the red side.
There needs to be a mechanic. If you go into a premade que, you should expect to face such. And whoever is currently in that queue waiting for another group to join up should enjoy a great benefit or buff.
Lets say its early evening, an Unfound, two Apocalypse & three LAG members have a premade in the special queue. They enjoy 5 min of a really effective buff or benefit, a Nova Core group joins and they beat the existing team. Now they get the limelight until another team manages to terf them out.
If there was a premade queue, there needs to be a reason to do it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
I agree with everybody that pug stomping is vital to keeping the queues active. It has really made the community grow.
Leaderboards, or anything interfering with the current system of auto teaming would be bad. I mean who needs tech to make sure that 5v3 matches stop happening. Or that afk'ers can get kicked. ..... Love the queues
On a serious note FvF queues need to disappear. if any fed thinks that they have populations and waiting times issues take a look at the red side.
I just don't see it mattering in the least if either way it's gonna remain the crapshoot as to whether your team is going to be facing an opponent on roughly an even keel. They implement a useful ranking system (provided they don't toss Private Queues out the window), then this idea would be a lot more appealing.
As far as queue TRIBBLE ups go, how's this one fit you: Now, not only when you queue up as a team can normal fail to get map from manager occur, you can join the match and be swapped to the opposing team, even if the teams would otherwise be even.
If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
If there was a premade queue, there needs to be a reason to do it.
I'd like a gigantic lump sum of refined dilithium for the extended duration of well fought matches compared to the 5 min dil farm some PUG arenas can turn out to be.
The first step should be that only winning counts toward the various missions. Then when all the PUGs stop queuing, perhaps the Premades will reconsider separate queues.
The first step should be that only winning counts toward the various missions. Then when all the PUGs stop queuing, perhaps the Premades will reconsider separate queues.
i can see it now...
"tsi tuesday"
"sad panda saturday"
"turkish thursdays"
-rolls eyes-
not all premades are created equal either, all itll take is a single premade to completely shutout the que on any given day with seperate ques.
then those people who want to play with their friends CANT unless they go against the "evil premades"
ive been in a ton of matches where theres been only TWO people from my fleet and we've been accused of being a premade.. hows that possible?
and to everyone else, lets get something straight here, not all "premades" are actually premades.
i like to pick up a group of people from opvp, but that doesnt make us a premade, if we ran into an actual premade we'd probably get our asses handed to us,
there are
pugs
pugmades
fleetmades
premades.
each group is different.
also, all it takes is one good pvp'r to turn a match in pug vrs pug. ever been in a match where thats happened and have the pug be accused of being a premade? -raises hand- i have.
Each is different, but three are actually premades.
It's simple.
Did the group form before or during the match...was it...premade before the match?
Tada. Premade.
Are all premades the same? Of course not.
I can't see somebody actually trying to say they're all equal. However, I do not for the life of me understand why anybody would try to say the group that is premade before the match is not a premade group - whether it's an OPvP PUGmade (which is basically ye olde /tradePUG - but still a premade group), a group thrown together by a Fleet to join the queues, or whether it's a group of folks that have built their five toons/ships/etc to function with an Evil synergy.
But regardless, even though that point is valid - it's moot. I suppose my comment was...passive aggressive. Nobody can honestly deny that synergistic Premades that roll the queues PUGstomping aren't...well...uh...insert various words that get the mods wagging their fingers.
But that doesn't mean it would be any more fun for the PUGmades and Fleetmades to have to deal with them than it is for the PUGs. If anything, PUGmades - Fleetmades would take to private matches - scheduling casual PvP fun. The PUGs would go without PvP or find themselves joining in on Fleetmades/PUGmades for that casual fun. The only folks that would be "screwed" - would be those PUGstomping Premades, the AFKers, and those that absolutely refused to get in on some Fleetmade/PUGmade action.
So still, my suggestion in TRIBBLE the PUGstompers and AFKers... c'mon, who does want to flip them and the horse they rode in on the bird, eh?
Any system they could come up with - there have been countless systems suggested - have all been pretty easy to point out as something that can be gamed by the playerbase - because those folks that enjoy PUGstomping - those folks that will 10v1 camp a KDF or Fed in Ker'rat - those folks...well...that's the kind of folks they are.
I can't remember the last time I PvP'd on consecutive days. The closest I've come is tooling around in Ker'rat. Arenas/CnH though? Can have a blast winning and losing...then hit two matches back to back against a PUGstomp group - and - forget it. I'll end up doing PvE for a few days and then try again.
I don't know how to explain it - that being fine with losing but wanting to put my headphones through my monitor against a PUGstomp group. But it's there - that difference - and it's pretty easy for that to start to bleed over into all of the premades and not just the PUGstomps.
Bah, this just goes round and round.
Think it's just a case that I'm getting burnt out again. It's usually 6 months on, 2-3 months off, then 6 months on again...lol.
Each is different, but three are actually premades.
It's simple.
Did the group form before or during the match...was it...premade before the match?
Tada. Premade.
Are all premades the same? Of course not.
.
and its because of that, there are differnt "mades".
a premade in this game is generally seen as a group of people from the same fleet with syncronizing builds to completely roll everything they run into. and are on the same voice chat
that is a premade.
a fleetmade is a group of people from the same fleet but not snycronizing their builds and are probably all on the same voice chat but not always
pugmades are generally formed from random people or friends that arnt in your fleet before a match starts, that does not make them a "premade" though.
and pugs are people who just go into the que alone.
calling everything thats made for a match a "premade" needs to stop, premades are their own thing not a general blanket term for anyone who makes a team before going into a match.
the one thing they can do to the system is actually anything at this point. minor bug fixes, broken promises, flat out neglect has made the pvp area what it is today.
im not saying the players arnt to blame but seriously, crypitc has been promising so much for so long and breaking every one of those promises.... -sighs-
pug mades are hardly a premade, like mai said. everyone's build is a cog in a machine, they might have weaknesses made up by their teammates so they can maximize something else. builds that wouldn't work well without the specific kind of support you can get from a premade. it will also specialize in something most of the time, like everyone will have chrono or trans mines for example.
a pug made are a bunch of pugers that form a team before queing up. thats it, its not more complicated then that. all that guaranties is that there proboly wont be any giga noobs, feeders or farmers on your team.
Main issue is that there are not enough pre-formed teams to actually maintain a full queue for it, and in fact the PvP ques in general have such a low population overall that separation would do more harm then good at this point.
I dunno man, id rather wait 1 hour in a premade queue, but yeah. even if there would be another premade out there and sees 5 people in the premade queue, they simply avoid it anyway.
Thats why we try chasing em down in the queues and try to get a 5v5 going anyway, force them to play, and improve.
instead of separate ques, they just need a bit of code that tries to match up qued teams together to fight each other. if theres no other teams oh well, just put them against what there is.
the real answer is that people need to L2P, so theres no real difference between pugs and pugmades. thats usually how it is with the kdf, usually. the game stops being a dumbed down facerole once you step away from the pve, but there are resources available to inform and teach.
instead of separate ques, they just need a bit of code that tries to match up qued teams together to fight each other. if theres no other teams oh well, just put them against what there is.
the real answer is that people need to L2P, so theres no real difference between pugs and pugmades. thats usually how it is with the kdf, usually. the game stops being a dumbed down facerole once you step away from the pve, but there are resources available to inform and teach.
Also that, the queue system is as dumb as it can be.
Look at the stupid amount of delays when you queue up for a PvE event with a full 5 man team, there is sometimes a delay of 1 minute before it starts. Reason? No reason.
Same for PvP, when there are 10 people in the queues it takes a few minutes for it to even pop. Just plain stupid. Its not because it has to laod the map or anything, (Even if so, there is something called pre-loading/buffering/caching) I bet its simply because there is a limit on the amount of PvP/PvE instances that can go on at the same time, or the whole system is just bluntly stupid.
And yeah, how many times have we encountered a premade activate the same time, the system is simply not intelligent enough to queue up those 5 man teams against each other. IQ of Queue system = 0.
That whole system needs a rework anyway. Also people with more experience and better gear should be tried to be queued up against each other, experienced players and pugs are constantly missing each other because th queue system is so horrible.
Well imho real premades are not that HUGE problem as some may think. Why? Bcs premade group most likely won`t be q`ing 10 times in a row and do pug stomping, u might see them 2 times but thats about it. (there are exepctions for some fleets, but in that case i try to form a team from OPVP and encounter them) In my expirience team from OPVP can easily beat hell out of some premades, and those kinda matches can last like ~30ish minutes or more and be really fun.
I remember some great matches with OPVP team`s that where beating TSI and Turks.
PUG vs PUG can be fun and last longer or less depending on the teams (AFK-er, maybe some less expirienced players or just one team working better then the other) Pugteams can easily beat pugs, fleetmades, and even premades. Pugmade vs pugmade will be pretty much balanced in most cases.
Worst case scenario that can happen in public Q is a premade team that uses all possible cheese and all possible borked stuff to win. (and at the very end of matches they will complain about one borked console that oposite team was using :rolleyes:) Altho, these scenarios are the rarest in Q`s
The que system probably could use a little attention. It should at least look at and balance captain types for pugs.
I was pugging yesterday and kept getting on teams with 5 tacs or 4 tacs and an eng so I changed over to my sci, qued up and got 2 other sci and 2 engies. :eek:
The que system probably could use a little attention. It should at least look at and balance captain types for pugs.
I was pugging yesterday and kept getting on teams with 5 tacs or 4 tacs and an eng so I changed over to my sci, qued up and got 2 other sci and 2 engies. :eek:
There's nothing quite like that feeling I get when my little sci ship and I warp into a match, I look around, and see 2 Eng/Ambassadors and 2 Tac Oddys make up the rest of my team. That's when I start contemplating the deeper meanings in life... and fall short of an answer.
The que system probably could use a little attention. It should at least look at and balance captain types for pugs.
I was pugging yesterday and kept getting on teams with 5 tacs or 4 tacs and an eng so I changed over to my sci, qued up and got 2 other sci and 2 engies. :eek:
well when all that ques is tacs.... it makes sense in seeing so many tacs...
i swear, every time i pure pug it im the ONLY science guy on a team of 4 tacs
Over the past few months I've made the jump in to PvP. I've found it to be a very steep learning curve. I do miss using certain abilities as they're completely useless in PvP however for the most part I'm finding myself having a great time.
I feel that it needs one major improvement, however. It needs dedicated Pre-made and PUG queues.
Sometime a player just wants to go in by himself without their fleet as it suits their timing. Or maybe a player has 10 or so minutes before they have to do something else and there's not enough time to coordinate with their fleet. Regardless of the many reasons there are times that a player will need to go in to a queue by themselves.
And then they come across one of the super-PvP fleets fronting a pre-made. And then they die and die and die and die because no PUG can ever really compete with them. And then the experience feels like a waste of time and it ceases to become enjoyable.
By no means am I begrudging the people who refine their skills to the degree that they're seemingly immortal. They work hard to achieve that level and that shouldn't be taken away from them. Still, shouldn't they be pitted against other pre-mades so that they can really test their skill and be confronted with the real prospect of losing rather than being presented with a straight up slaughter?
Having a pre-made and PUG queue will support the PUGgers who are looking for a quick game or are trying to refine their skills away from the uber-killers. A pre-made queue will provide those uber-killers with the challenge that they rightfully deserve.
Overall, I think the game can only benefit from this. Thoughts?
/channel_join OrganizedPvP
"I'm looking for a team. I'm a Fed?KDF Tac?Sci?Eng in a ?"
Or just ask me when I'm online for a spot in a pugmade, or make your own.
Mad props to those teams who don't refuse requests to fight.
I prefer fighting other skilled teams than pugs, as it's the only way I can get better as a player. And because it's more fun and you feel a sense of accomplishment if you win.
But yeah, we have certain teams that never seem to want to field a team against another pugmade or premade. :P
Those mopes generally fall into the category of guys who are afraid to lose.
I agree with the OP. Although I am part of the occasional premade. I really do think that having these queues separated would be awesome. Cryptic seem to be only interested in offering better rewards rather than addressing these issues. Alas, I hope for this in the future and hopefully the new neverwinter PVP system will be a success and be applied to STO... I hear it's not bad, but i don't have enough relevant information to make an informed decision on this.
The problem really is with PVP is balance IMO and the P2W. While there is skill these abilities, consoles and ships tip the balance out of favor.
Over the past few months I've made the jump in to PvP. I've found it to be a very steep learning curve. I do miss using certain abilities as they're completely useless in PvP however for the most part I'm finding myself having a great time.
I feel that it needs one major improvement, however. It needs dedicated Pre-made and PUG queues.
Sometime a player just wants to go in by himself without their fleet as it suits their timing. Or maybe a player has 10 or so minutes before they have to do something else and there's not enough time to coordinate with their fleet. Regardless of the many reasons there are times that a player will need to go in to a queue by themselves.
And then they come across one of the super-PvP fleets fronting a pre-made. And then they die and die and die and die because no PUG can ever really compete with them. And then the experience feels like a waste of time and it ceases to become enjoyable.
By no means am I begrudging the people who refine their skills to the degree that they're seemingly immortal. They work hard to achieve that level and that shouldn't be taken away from them. Still, shouldn't they be pitted against other pre-mades so that they can really test their skill and be confronted with the real prospect of losing rather than being presented with a straight up slaughter?
Having a pre-made and PUG queue will support the PUGgers who are looking for a quick game or are trying to refine their skills away from the uber-killers. A pre-made queue will provide those uber-killers with the challenge that they rightfully deserve.
Overall, I think the game can only benefit from this. Thoughts?
One solution would be to make some maps, new maps, 3 man teams, lol, rofl, i said new maps......nm
As a long term pug only player, I can say this. Whoever says there is "not enough premade population" is wrong. There is plenty of fleets that queue with 5 man teams. If there is something lacking, is the balls to fight other premades. Sadly, growing balls is not something Cryptic can do.
But joke aside, before any changes to queus and teaming as whole. I would first focus on smarter match making. But since I'm repeating this since launch and nothing changes...well I will better go to do something more productive.
But yes, PuG stomping does wonderful job at promoting PvP and increasing PvP population as whole...
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
As a long term pug only player, I can say this. Whoever says there is "not enough premade population" is wrong. There is plenty of fleets that queue with 5 man teams. If there is something lacking, is the balls to fight other premades. Sadly, growing balls is not something Cryptic can do.
But joke aside, before any changes to queus and teaming as whole. I would first focus on smarter match making. But since I'm repeating this since launch and nothing changes...well I will better go to do something more productive.
But yes, PuG stomping does wonderful job at promoting PvP and increasing PvP population as whole...
Is it a certain time that you play where you experience this?
My schedule's even flakier than me, so I'll end up playing at all sorts of different times - there are definitely periods where...uh...doing something other than PvP tends to be the best bet.
Is it a certain time that you play where you experience this?
My schedule's even flakier than me, so I'll end up playing at all sorts of different times - there are definitely periods where...uh...doing something other than PvP tends to be the best bet.
EU evenings mostly, and weekends.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Comments
That being said those big mean fleet premades aren't invincible. You'd be surprised what a pug can accomplish with a simple T "team Target >> $target <<" keybind as long as someone is willing to lead and the rest comply.
On the other hand, if you take a couple of the serious PvPers in their best ships and put them in PUGs, those PUGs usually do very well. There are a few names that I've almost never seen on a loosing PUG team, or even if they lose they still squeak out 8 or 10 kills even against pre-mades.
Seriously if you have one person on a PUG who calls targets and chooses them wisely, and the rest of the PUG follows, then you have 90% of the coordination a premade has. The rest of the difference comes from individual player skill, ship builds, etc., and there's nothing stopping those players from PUGging too.
Basically if you have a premade that comes from a fleet doing their PvP night, with a mix of experience levels and builds which might or might not be optimized, a group of more focused PvPers who just have someone with a target keybind can and often will win, PUG or not.
If anything matching should somehow weigh experience levels. I' know that's difficult, but I've seen games that do it.
Main issue is that there are not enough pre-formed teams to actually maintain a full queue for it, and in fact the PvP ques in general have such a low population overall that separation would do more harm then good at this point.
This. I'll also add that having a solo-queue only without any checks or balances to make matches based on player skill, captain/ship combinations, and to a lesser degree gear, isn't really gonna work out any better. You'll still get teamed up against players that are used to working as a team and have a fairly well balanced selection of ships at their disposal while your team is 2 Eng/Escorts, 1 Tac/Cruisers (beams) and one lone Sci Guy who's just there to enjoy having a bunch of shiny buttons to press.
I agree with everybody that pug stomping is vital to keeping the queues active. It has really made the community grow.
Leaderboards, or anything interfering with the current system of auto teaming would be bad. I mean who needs tech to make sure that 5v3 matches stop happening. Or that afk'ers can get kicked. ..... Love the queues
On a serious note FvF queues need to disappear. if any fed thinks that they have populations and waiting times issues take a look at the red side.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Lets say its early evening, an Unfound, two Apocalypse & three LAG members have a premade in the special queue. They enjoy 5 min of a really effective buff or benefit, a Nova Core group joins and they beat the existing team. Now they get the limelight until another team manages to terf them out.
If there was a premade queue, there needs to be a reason to do it.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
I just don't see it mattering in the least if either way it's gonna remain the crapshoot as to whether your team is going to be facing an opponent on roughly an even keel. They implement a useful ranking system (provided they don't toss Private Queues out the window), then this idea would be a lot more appealing.
As far as queue TRIBBLE ups go, how's this one fit you: Now, not only when you queue up as a team can normal fail to get map from manager occur, you can join the match and be swapped to the opposing team, even if the teams would otherwise be even.
Yes, that's certainly what all of us have been advocating in the thread. :rolleyes:
I'd like a gigantic lump sum of refined dilithium for the extended duration of well fought matches compared to the 5 min dil farm some PUG arenas can turn out to be.
i can see it now...
"tsi tuesday"
"sad panda saturday"
"turkish thursdays"
-rolls eyes-
not all premades are created equal either, all itll take is a single premade to completely shutout the que on any given day with seperate ques.
then those people who want to play with their friends CANT unless they go against the "evil premades"
ive been in a ton of matches where theres been only TWO people from my fleet and we've been accused of being a premade.. hows that possible?
and to everyone else, lets get something straight here, not all "premades" are actually premades.
i like to pick up a group of people from opvp, but that doesnt make us a premade, if we ran into an actual premade we'd probably get our asses handed to us,
there are
pugs
pugmades
fleetmades
premades.
each group is different.
also, all it takes is one good pvp'r to turn a match in pug vrs pug. ever been in a match where thats happened and have the pug be accused of being a premade? -raises hand- i have.
Do you even Science Bro?
Great post, unfortunately lost on most players.
Each is different, but three are actually premades.
It's simple.
Did the group form before or during the match...was it...premade before the match?
Tada. Premade.
Are all premades the same? Of course not.
I can't see somebody actually trying to say they're all equal. However, I do not for the life of me understand why anybody would try to say the group that is premade before the match is not a premade group - whether it's an OPvP PUGmade (which is basically ye olde /tradePUG - but still a premade group), a group thrown together by a Fleet to join the queues, or whether it's a group of folks that have built their five toons/ships/etc to function with an Evil synergy.
But regardless, even though that point is valid - it's moot. I suppose my comment was...passive aggressive. Nobody can honestly deny that synergistic Premades that roll the queues PUGstomping aren't...well...uh...insert various words that get the mods wagging their fingers.
But that doesn't mean it would be any more fun for the PUGmades and Fleetmades to have to deal with them than it is for the PUGs. If anything, PUGmades - Fleetmades would take to private matches - scheduling casual PvP fun. The PUGs would go without PvP or find themselves joining in on Fleetmades/PUGmades for that casual fun. The only folks that would be "screwed" - would be those PUGstomping Premades, the AFKers, and those that absolutely refused to get in on some Fleetmade/PUGmade action.
So still, my suggestion in TRIBBLE the PUGstompers and AFKers... c'mon, who does want to flip them and the horse they rode in on the bird, eh?
Any system they could come up with - there have been countless systems suggested - have all been pretty easy to point out as something that can be gamed by the playerbase - because those folks that enjoy PUGstomping - those folks that will 10v1 camp a KDF or Fed in Ker'rat - those folks...well...that's the kind of folks they are.
I can't remember the last time I PvP'd on consecutive days. The closest I've come is tooling around in Ker'rat. Arenas/CnH though? Can have a blast winning and losing...then hit two matches back to back against a PUGstomp group - and - forget it. I'll end up doing PvE for a few days and then try again.
I don't know how to explain it - that being fine with losing but wanting to put my headphones through my monitor against a PUGstomp group. But it's there - that difference - and it's pretty easy for that to start to bleed over into all of the premades and not just the PUGstomps.
Bah, this just goes round and round.
Think it's just a case that I'm getting burnt out again. It's usually 6 months on, 2-3 months off, then 6 months on again...lol.
and its because of that, there are differnt "mades".
a premade in this game is generally seen as a group of people from the same fleet with syncronizing builds to completely roll everything they run into. and are on the same voice chat
that is a premade.
a fleetmade is a group of people from the same fleet but not snycronizing their builds and are probably all on the same voice chat but not always
pugmades are generally formed from random people or friends that arnt in your fleet before a match starts, that does not make them a "premade" though.
and pugs are people who just go into the que alone.
calling everything thats made for a match a "premade" needs to stop, premades are their own thing not a general blanket term for anyone who makes a team before going into a match.
the one thing they can do to the system is actually anything at this point. minor bug fixes, broken promises, flat out neglect has made the pvp area what it is today.
im not saying the players arnt to blame but seriously, crypitc has been promising so much for so long and breaking every one of those promises.... -sighs-
Do you even Science Bro?
a pug made are a bunch of pugers that form a team before queing up. thats it, its not more complicated then that. all that guaranties is that there proboly wont be any giga noobs, feeders or farmers on your team.
I dunno man, id rather wait 1 hour in a premade queue, but yeah. even if there would be another premade out there and sees 5 people in the premade queue, they simply avoid it anyway.
Thats why we try chasing em down in the queues and try to get a 5v5 going anyway, force them to play, and improve.
Unforutnately 95% of the time it ends up vs pugs
the real answer is that people need to L2P, so theres no real difference between pugs and pugmades. thats usually how it is with the kdf, usually. the game stops being a dumbed down facerole once you step away from the pve, but there are resources available to inform and teach.
Also that, the queue system is as dumb as it can be.
Look at the stupid amount of delays when you queue up for a PvE event with a full 5 man team, there is sometimes a delay of 1 minute before it starts. Reason? No reason.
Same for PvP, when there are 10 people in the queues it takes a few minutes for it to even pop. Just plain stupid. Its not because it has to laod the map or anything, (Even if so, there is something called pre-loading/buffering/caching) I bet its simply because there is a limit on the amount of PvP/PvE instances that can go on at the same time, or the whole system is just bluntly stupid.
And yeah, how many times have we encountered a premade activate the same time, the system is simply not intelligent enough to queue up those 5 man teams against each other. IQ of Queue system = 0.
That whole system needs a rework anyway. Also people with more experience and better gear should be tried to be queued up against each other, experienced players and pugs are constantly missing each other because th queue system is so horrible.
+1.
I remember some great matches with OPVP team`s that where beating TSI and Turks.
PUG vs PUG can be fun and last longer or less depending on the teams (AFK-er, maybe some less expirienced players or just one team working better then the other) Pugteams can easily beat pugs, fleetmades, and even premades. Pugmade vs pugmade will be pretty much balanced in most cases.
Worst case scenario that can happen in public Q is a premade team that uses all possible cheese and all possible borked stuff to win. (and at the very end of matches they will complain about one borked console that oposite team was using :rolleyes:) Altho, these scenarios are the rarest in Q`s
I was pugging yesterday and kept getting on teams with 5 tacs or 4 tacs and an eng so I changed over to my sci, qued up and got 2 other sci and 2 engies. :eek:
There's nothing quite like that feeling I get when my little sci ship and I warp into a match, I look around, and see 2 Eng/Ambassadors and 2 Tac Oddys make up the rest of my team. That's when I start contemplating the deeper meanings in life... and fall short of an answer.
well when all that ques is tacs.... it makes sense in seeing so many tacs...
i swear, every time i pure pug it im the ONLY science guy on a team of 4 tacs
Do you even Science Bro?
/channel_join OrganizedPvP
"I'm looking for a team. I'm a Fed?KDF Tac?Sci?Eng in a ?"
Or just ask me when I'm online for a spot in a pugmade, or make your own.
I prefer fighting other skilled teams than pugs, as it's the only way I can get better as a player. And because it's more fun and you feel a sense of accomplishment if you win.
But yeah, we have certain teams that never seem to want to field a team against another pugmade or premade. :P
Those mopes generally fall into the category of guys who are afraid to lose.
The problem really is with PVP is balance IMO and the P2W. While there is skill these abilities, consoles and ships tip the balance out of favor.
One solution would be to make some maps, new maps, 3 man teams, lol, rofl, i said new maps......nm
Or at least offer better rewards for FvK PvP.
But joke aside, before any changes to queus and teaming as whole. I would first focus on smarter match making. But since I'm repeating this since launch and nothing changes...well I will better go to do something more productive.
But yes, PuG stomping does wonderful job at promoting PvP and increasing PvP population as whole...
Is it a certain time that you play where you experience this?
My schedule's even flakier than me, so I'll end up playing at all sorts of different times - there are definitely periods where...uh...doing something other than PvP tends to be the best bet.
EU evenings mostly, and weekends.
Every time I pure pug it I end up on a team with Tacs in Ambassadors and Odys.