Dual heavy cannons are basically a superset of dual cannons, which makes the later redundant at best, and a way for unsuspecting newbies gimp themselves at worst. Here's a fix that requires no coding at all, just 10 seconds to go change some values.
-Increase the arc of dual cannons from 45 to 60 degrees
-Decrease the damage of dual cannons by 5-10%
This (literally) ten second fix improves balance, increases variety, and creates a good compromise for players that want to do good damage but fly ships that are a bit too slow to make good use of DHCs.
Just because it takes ten seconds to type something out doesn't mean it can be done that fast in code...
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
Just because it takes ten seconds to type something out doesn't mean it can be done that fast in code...
As anyone with even the slightest comprehension of computer science could tell you, this has nothing to do with coding. Just changing two variables, which yes, takes about ten seconds.
As anyone with even the slightest comprehension of computer science could tell you, this has nothing to do with coding. Just changing two variables, which yes, takes about ten seconds.
Coding an MMO takes a degree in rocket science apparently. Every simple variable change I've seen and suggested to various MMO developers over the years has been shot down with "it's not that simple".
It's like they bury the stats to items deep within the physics engine; You change the item, you TRIBBLE the physics up. That's what it seems like every time a developer says it's too difficult a change to do.
Though, I will give it to Cryptic. They'd probably have to change every dual cannon item in the item database, as the weapon fire arc is probably stored on the item rather than in a weapon database. That would take more than 10 seconds, as they'd have to search "45" and determine what's what.
In doing that change, they'd break so much stuff.
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As anyone with even the slightest comprehension of computer science could tell you, this has nothing to do with coding. Just changing two variables, which yes, takes about ten seconds.
As anyone with even the slightest comprehension of computer science could tell you,
~EVERYTHING HAS TO DO WITH CODING~
Seriously, what do you think this is - an Excel spreadsheet?
Those two variable exist somewhere within the many millions of lines of code that make up STO, so changing them is - by definition - a coding change.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
It's like they bury the stats to items deep within the physics engine; You change the item, you TRIBBLE the physics up. That's what it seems like every time a developer says it's too difficult a change to do.
Actually it's more likely they just don't want to be late for happy hour.
Seriously, what do you think this is - an Excel spreadsheet?
I think there's some sort of database and that values for different weapons such as damage, power drain, and firing arc are stored in external files for easy access. And you know what? Even if Cryptic were completely incompetent at programming and stored all of this stuff internally it would still be as simple as changing two values if you only knew where to look. There's no secret voodoo involved here, or at least there shouldn't be.
As an aside, I really hate MMO communities. Half the population thinks that enormous changes are simple, and write pages and pages on how the devs should bend over backwards to create their vision. The other half are typically apologists for the devs who think that changing a couple values is some kind of arcane science passed down from generation to generation. Grab a brain.
ive done a lot of game modding, something like this is a variable change. a variable is an entry within the code. it is literally changing a number. now, the STO code, theres a good chance that it resembles spaghetti. that doesn't change the fact that this is a variable change, it cant be more complex then that.
every once and a wile i bust out my DCs that costed nothing, and give them a chance. i cant tell the difference between their damage dealing and beam arrays damage dealing. i think something more like a 25% increase for DC damage, hell all none DHC weapons damage, is appropriate. or you know, eliminating their pressure damaging completely? making them fire all like DHCs? that would be a long term fix to all the defensive power creep.
I doubt the Arc value is even in their database of all existing dual cannons weapons, or however they store this information, indeed simply with some variables in game.
See how easy they change something on a weapontype, it affects all of the weapons in game? Just a simple modification.
Also, how easy was it to implement that Quantum wide arc torp? or that 5th front slot? not that hard.
And i still recall ppl saying 'The engine couldn't handle it'.
lol. STO is using a reasonably flexible scripting/database mechanism to handle most of this stuff, and granted it doesnt take 10 seconds, probably more just to make sure everything works as it should... but still.
If they cant even change the arc of a weapon, they couldn't implement all the other stuff they do either. Yay, there even exist 360 arc weapons guys!!!!
Half the population thinks that enormous changes are simple, and write pages and pages on how the devs should bend over backwards to create their vision. The other half are typically apologists for the devs who think that changing a couple values is some kind of arcane science passed down from generation to generation. Grab a brain.
Dual cannons have there uses, DEM and phaser procs to name two, although with everything in subsystem repair lately the latter is not very viable atm. Yes DHC changes may be as simple as finding a varible and changing it which would take several minutes (since you would need to search for it esp if the code was written by someone else) but if the devs did things like that the game would be in far far worse shape then it is now. And who knows what kind of systems depend on that arc for example what if dual and dual cannons are tied to the same variable (which is not that unlikely, it would actually save time programming it that way in the first place and every bit of time helps), a whole new entry of code has to be made, even more stuff to do for the programmer and even more things can break.
I would not be much suprised if all this data is not in database or even some specific file with variables, but are hardcoded into game. If this is the case then changing anything will take ages and will, most likely break something cause some place will be missed or something like this.
As a Computer technicial and as someone who has wrote programs and coding scripts I can confirm it is not something as simple as the OP thinks. It takes time to find the specific code they then have to change it to what is needed. Not only that they may have to change more than one section which will take a lot of time. Then testing it to make sure no bugs are in this and making sure there is no error means it takes longer than 10 seconds to fix can possibly take a day at the earliest to make sure everything is working correctly. But changing a line of code to make it work as expected is not a easy task.
And no I'm not a cryptic fan but as a programmer who has done the job some of the programming devs have done I thought I would give my two cents worth
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It would be a 10 second fix if their data was stored in a normal relational database, but we already know it isn't.
Since they have some form of object-oriented scheme (discussed in a developers conference long ago), they might need to update each and every instance of dual cannons.
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It would be a 10 second fix if their data was stored in a normal relational database, but we already know it isn't.
Since they have some form of object-oriented scheme (discussed in a developers conference long ago), they might need to update each and every instance of dual cannons.
Um. That's not Object Oriented Programming. If it was, they would just look up the Dual Cannon subclass and change one variable, which its implementations would then inherit.
Cryptic apparently uses Tangled Ball of Yarn Oriented Programming.
Dual heavy cannons are basically a superset of dual cannons, which makes the later redundant at best, and a way for unsuspecting newbies gimp themselves at worst. Here's a fix that requires no coding at all, just 10 seconds to go change some values.
-Increase the arc of dual cannons from 45 to 60 degrees
-Decrease the damage of dual cannons by 5-10%
This (literally) ten second fix improves balance, increases variety, and creates a good compromise for players that want to do good damage but fly ships that are a bit too slow to make good use of DHCs.
Um. That's not Object Oriented Programming. If it was, they would just look up the Dual Cannon subclass and change one variable, which its implementations would then inherit.
Cryptic apparently uses Tangled Ball of Yarn Oriented Programming.
Ah, but we're talking about storage here, not coding. And if the firing arc is a property instead of a method...
Who knows? In any case, testing for unintended consequences would still require significant time (we'd hope.)
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I would have to agree, that I do not feel the change would be just 10 seconds..
Not only would you have to change the Variable for the cannons to deal damage in the new Arc, but you'd also have to change the Art variable effect to work properly. And then there's changing the tool tips to reflect the new change. Not to mention making sure ALL Versions of these cannons, old and new, have this new change implemented..
Then you have to run your own tests to make sure the code isn't interfering with something else. Then you have to send the new change to Q&A to make sure it's not going to break something.
And that's not if there would actually have to be new art for the change as well (doubtful, but you never know).
That does not sound like 10 seconds to me. Sounds like at least a week, maybe two of personal time (because you know something like this would probably be done on their own time) while some of the code might even need two different people or even teams to make sure it works properly.
The 5th Weapon slot, for example, was not easy. It involved Systems to make sure the items worked on the ship, UI to make sure the new slot was added properly..
I'm not apologizing for Cryptic's many mistakes over the 3 years of game time.. I am simply using my brain of what I know to guestimate information that makes sense. And 10 seconds does not make sense to me.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
holy TRIBBLE who cares how long it takes. these weapon tooltips with the stats are refreshing a database, adjust the database. be it every entry for every possible combination of mod and mark, or if it can be done with a single command to all entries. the fireing arc is likely a variable in the code associated with the weapon type.
holy TRIBBLE who cares how long it takes. these weapon tooltips with the stats are refreshing a database, adjust the database. be it every entry for every possible combination of mod and mark, or if it can be done with a single command to all entries. the fireing arc is likely a variable in the code associated with the weapon type.
these should be very doable things.
From how the math of the game works I highly doubt it would be that extreme. It would simply require a modification of the base values for Dual Cannons that would then go into the math to fix all the indidual pieces of equipment.
I highly doubt an entry exists for each individual item. Instead the engine does the math for that item using the base values and modifiers which are individually set in an external database file.
From how the math of the game works I highly doubt it would be that extreme. It would simply require a modification of the base values for Dual Cannons that would then go into the math to fix all the indidual pieces of equipment.
I highly doubt an entry exists for each individual item. Instead the engine does the math for that item using the base values and modifiers which are individually set in an external database file.
i agree, it seems like the mods are applied on the fly, and with FAW and other things they hesitate to mention, not applied properly sometimes when abilities get used. they arent imbedded in a database with the item. i was just mentioning the worst case, and that wile it would be tedious, it wouldn't even be that bad to update.
Increase the arc, don't touch the damage or keep it minimal, like 2-3% reduction.
we are talking about an increases. all pressure, even from DCs, basically does nothing. i cant tell the difference between beam array damage and DC damage, pressure is so ineffective right now.
From how the math of the game works I highly doubt it would be that extreme. It would simply require a modification of the base values for Dual Cannons that would then go into the math to fix all the indidual pieces of equipment.
I highly doubt an entry exists for each individual item. Instead the engine does the math for that item using the base values and modifiers which are individually set in an external database file.
I would be surprised if this wasnt the case, but hey... its Cryptic.
There is art when you mouse over a weapon in the HUD (where you fire weapons with your mouse) a projection of the arc is displayed in front of the actual 3D model of the ship (although the size of this may be determined from a value in the code but somehow I doubt it, esp since that would be drawing a 3D object dependent on "systems" code and the two (3D and systems) are controlled by different programmers).
Also controlling items like this within a database in this instance is easier to update, but updating this sort of thing in an MMO is quite rare and would be less effiecent and more messy to implement (not to mention slower than just building it directly into the code).
I also agree with previous posters that said that the firing arc is dependent in a value or math in the code related to the weapon type (in this case dual cannons) and not from a item database (the one that stores what the item is, mark, types, quality (which is stored in a database suprisingly instead of in the code for the item, although chaing the rareity of something is much more likely than changing a firing arc) etc).
Edit: Also I would say maybe an hour of work by two or three people at most would be required but I really don't know. And as DontDrunk and maybe others said it dosen't really matter, what matters is wheither Cryptic is willing to make the change, its as simple as that.
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...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
As anyone with even the slightest comprehension of computer science could tell you, this has nothing to do with coding. Just changing two variables, which yes, takes about ten seconds.
It's like they bury the stats to items deep within the physics engine; You change the item, you TRIBBLE the physics up. That's what it seems like every time a developer says it's too difficult a change to do.
Though, I will give it to Cryptic. They'd probably have to change every dual cannon item in the item database, as the weapon fire arc is probably stored on the item rather than in a weapon database. That would take more than 10 seconds, as they'd have to search "45" and determine what's what.
In doing that change, they'd break so much stuff.
Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
kate-wintersbite.deviantart.com/art/0x01-Treachery-293641403
Sounds like a step in the right direction. Dual cannons being somewhere between single cannons and dual heavies doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Maybe you should work for Cryptic and show them how it's done.
As anyone with even the slightest comprehension of computer science could tell you,
Seriously, what do you think this is - an Excel spreadsheet?
Those two variable exist somewhere within the many millions of lines of code that make up STO, so changing them is - by definition - a coding change.
...Oh, baby, you know, I've really got to leave you / Oh, I can hear it callin 'me / I said don't you hear it callin' me the way it used to do?...
- Anne Bredon
I think there's some sort of database and that values for different weapons such as damage, power drain, and firing arc are stored in external files for easy access. And you know what? Even if Cryptic were completely incompetent at programming and stored all of this stuff internally it would still be as simple as changing two values if you only knew where to look. There's no secret voodoo involved here, or at least there shouldn't be.
As an aside, I really hate MMO communities. Half the population thinks that enormous changes are simple, and write pages and pages on how the devs should bend over backwards to create their vision. The other half are typically apologists for the devs who think that changing a couple values is some kind of arcane science passed down from generation to generation. Grab a brain.
every once and a wile i bust out my DCs that costed nothing, and give them a chance. i cant tell the difference between their damage dealing and beam arrays damage dealing. i think something more like a 25% increase for DC damage, hell all none DHC weapons damage, is appropriate. or you know, eliminating their pressure damaging completely? making them fire all like DHCs? that would be a long term fix to all the defensive power creep.
See how easy they change something on a weapontype, it affects all of the weapons in game? Just a simple modification.
Also, how easy was it to implement that Quantum wide arc torp? or that 5th front slot? not that hard.
And i still recall ppl saying 'The engine couldn't handle it'.
lol. STO is using a reasonably flexible scripting/database mechanism to handle most of this stuff, and granted it doesnt take 10 seconds, probably more just to make sure everything works as it should... but still.
If they cant even change the arc of a weapon, they couldn't implement all the other stuff they do either. Yay, there even exist 360 arc weapons guys!!!!
Which half are you?
I'd like to think neither, though I'm sure I've had one or two bouts of being the former :P
Sounds familliar?
And no I'm not a cryptic fan but as a programmer who has done the job some of the programming devs have done I thought I would give my two cents worth
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Since they have some form of object-oriented scheme (discussed in a developers conference long ago), they might need to update each and every instance of dual cannons.
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Um. That's not Object Oriented Programming. If it was, they would just look up the Dual Cannon subclass and change one variable, which its implementations would then inherit.
Cryptic apparently uses Tangled Ball of Yarn Oriented Programming.
ok but why not just fix beams instead
Ah, but we're talking about storage here, not coding. And if the firing arc is a property instead of a method...
Who knows? In any case, testing for unintended consequences would still require significant time (we'd hope.)
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Not only would you have to change the Variable for the cannons to deal damage in the new Arc, but you'd also have to change the Art variable effect to work properly. And then there's changing the tool tips to reflect the new change. Not to mention making sure ALL Versions of these cannons, old and new, have this new change implemented..
Then you have to run your own tests to make sure the code isn't interfering with something else. Then you have to send the new change to Q&A to make sure it's not going to break something.
And that's not if there would actually have to be new art for the change as well (doubtful, but you never know).
That does not sound like 10 seconds to me. Sounds like at least a week, maybe two of personal time (because you know something like this would probably be done on their own time) while some of the code might even need two different people or even teams to make sure it works properly.
The 5th Weapon slot, for example, was not easy. It involved Systems to make sure the items worked on the ship, UI to make sure the new slot was added properly..
I'm not apologizing for Cryptic's many mistakes over the 3 years of game time.. I am simply using my brain of what I know to guestimate information that makes sense. And 10 seconds does not make sense to me.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
these should be very doable things.
I really depends on how the engine works. Many games use outside data that is easy to access and modify. Hence why so many games are easy to mod.
Now it may cause issues with the graphics in some way but I seriously doubt it.
From how the math of the game works I highly doubt it would be that extreme. It would simply require a modification of the base values for Dual Cannons that would then go into the math to fix all the indidual pieces of equipment.
I highly doubt an entry exists for each individual item. Instead the engine does the math for that item using the base values and modifiers which are individually set in an external database file.
i agree, it seems like the mods are applied on the fly, and with FAW and other things they hesitate to mention, not applied properly sometimes when abilities get used. they arent imbedded in a database with the item. i was just mentioning the worst case, and that wile it would be tedious, it wouldn't even be that bad to update.
we are talking about an increases. all pressure, even from DCs, basically does nothing. i cant tell the difference between beam array damage and DC damage, pressure is so ineffective right now.
I would be surprised if this wasnt the case, but hey... its Cryptic.
Also controlling items like this within a database in this instance is easier to update, but updating this sort of thing in an MMO is quite rare and would be less effiecent and more messy to implement (not to mention slower than just building it directly into the code).
I also agree with previous posters that said that the firing arc is dependent in a value or math in the code related to the weapon type (in this case dual cannons) and not from a item database (the one that stores what the item is, mark, types, quality (which is stored in a database suprisingly instead of in the code for the item, although chaing the rareity of something is much more likely than changing a firing arc) etc).
Edit: Also I would say maybe an hour of work by two or three people at most would be required but I really don't know. And as DontDrunk and maybe others said it dosen't really matter, what matters is wheither Cryptic is willing to make the change, its as simple as that.