Alright, so browsing this forum, scouring through dozens of builds, it seems to be rather universally accepted that the Excelsior should never be used by Engineer captains. My question is then why is that the case?
Or rather, why is the Excelsior meant to be shyed away from, while the Regent is then recommended in its place? I mean, I have read the reasoning behind it, as the Eng doesn't have the DPS to make proper use of the Excel, but with virtually the identical BOFF layout on the Regent save for swapping the Ensign Tac and Eng around and exactly one difference in turn rate, I don't see anything that would make it less effective for an Eng. By that rationale, the Regent should also be given the same stipulation, yes?
I don't see how the Regent would then be any MORE effective than the Excelsior for an Engineer?
Sure, one less Ensign tac for Tac team, but that can be easily solved with Doffs.
If I am missing something here, please let me know. I am trying to build an effective Eng cruiser for PvP (no not DPS focused) and really neither of these lets me rotate EPtS3 without doffs (even then not consistently)
I guess my overall question is why is the Regent recommended for Engineers over the Excelsior? I don't see really any difference in their overall DPS or Defensive capabilities.
cruisers with LTC tacs, hell more then just a LT tac, are not going to make ideal heal boats, they are for kirking, period. but really, fed cruisers deal a net 0 damage now, with their pressure damage vs all the healing power creep. so not only are eng captains just plain bad, thier ships, unless your a super healer, are bad too.
cruisers with LTC tacs, hell more then just a LT tac, are not going to make ideal heal boats, they are for kirking, period. but really, fed cruisers deal a net 0 damage now, with their pressure damage vs all the healing power creep. so not only are eng captains just plain bad, thier ships, unless your a super healer, are bad too.
With the exception of calling Eng captains plain bad, I agree with everything here.
completely outdated anyway. i mean that was even before technician doffs had this huge impact on dps cruisers and he advices on a EPS console...
i mean basically those builds are ok, but need revisiting and editing.
I find an engineer in an Excelsior to be okay for PUGging. Generally speaking, Engineers should be healers just because that is what their tanking-oriented captain abilities benefit the most. (For example, an engineer can use EPS transfer to keep both aux and weapon power maxed at the same time, and they can afford to shoot all their BOff heals to other people since they still have Miracle Worker and RSF to fall back on.) But the problem with playing a heal-boat in a Fed PUG is that you very often wind up on a team with a bunch of "DPS cruisers" and zero escorts, so if you're not doing damage yourself you can't count on your team-mates for it either.
But if you're an engineer and you need something to add a little DPS while PUGging or doing PvE, the Excelsior is not horrible. Just be aware that most of your effective damage will come from EWP, so you'll want your Particle Generators as high as you can manage, and you'll probably want to time your Attack Pattern Omega use to coincide with laying down EWP.
I definitely wouldn't recommend the Excelsior for team play, but I've zoned into so many PUGs in a team-oriented heal-boat and found myself with four team-mates who are so focussed on staying alive that they neither need heals nor are able to carry their weight in DPS. Or else I wind up with a Recluse healer and find my healing cruiser entirely superfluous. In those cases, the team would be better off if I brought the Excelsior.
But if you're able to organize and balance the team at all beforehand, the engineer should be in a real healing boat.
All very solid points here, and I agree with most of it. However, its still really doesn't answer my question as to why the Regent would be better suited for an Eng captain than the Excelsior. Neither of them has a Cmdr and Lt Cmdr eng boff layout for EPtS3, so they both seem kind of TRIBBLE for that roll to me.
I do tend to agree with the fact that Eng captains are kind of, lets say, less than worthwhile, in PvP. 90% of their ability to heal comes from the ship's boff layout, rather than the Captain. Rotate Shield Frequency is self only, which does allow for reaching the cap of shield damage reduction, but the difference between 60 SDR and 75 SDR seems minimal. And miracle working has such a long cool down, combined with the fact that it really is not that much of a difference maker. EPS is alright, but the same effect can be replicated by other skills. So on the point of Engineers being kind of pointless, I tend to agree. However, I will slug through it anyway.
It seems then, to be the most effective healboat or tank, I should roll with the free Assault cruiser, Fleet Heavy cruiser retrofit (which ever is the better one of the 2 fleet heavy cruiser), or an Ody (but with 6 turn, I won't pay money for that thing).
Yeah the Excel and the Regent do fine in ESTF's, but I have built them for PvP, so anything with a PvP build will Roflstomp PvE TRIBBLE.
I have done a few PUG pvp matches, and I am just finding it harder and harder to find a roll as a tank. I dont really want to put the eng in an escort as its kind gimp, or switch to my Tac, but I'd hate to have all that work getting MK12 gear go to waste.
A) Character class doesn't really make that much of a difference. Yes, the alpha strike from a Tactical captain spikes more than either an Engineer or Science captain. After the alpha, the cool-downs on captain abilities shifts the advantage to the other two classes.
never trust someone that says captain type doesn't make much of a difference, thats so wrong its trolling. whats with all this denial of eng captains sucking? this isn't something thats debatable.
the regent isnt any better then the excelsior for an eng. the 3 eng ensigns is the worst type to have 3 ensigns of the same type of, but having more tac stations is not going to make you better at healing.
there is a single situation were an eng is ideal, when you are puging solo as a dedicated healer. you cant rely on a second healer, just yourself, your self heals would actually be handy. on a team a sci healer brings debuffs and sci fleet with him, and there would be a second healer on the team too, making an eng captain redundant, and unideal. my advice would be if you want to use tac heavy cruisers is to stop bothering with your eng. make a tac to do all your damage dealing with, be it in a tac heavy cruiser or escort.
there is a single situation were an eng is ideal, when you are puging solo as a dedicated healer.
No. I do fine with my Dedicated Auxiliary spike per tank engineer cruiser its really viable in a premade I basically tank all 5 players because I have +Th threat control consoles and thy have plenty of reason to try kill me. Then my team has plenty of time to finish off all the opponents.
I can see where both arguments are true. The eng captain is a very good tank, but most abilities that come from the eng are for self tanking, and since and eng in a cruiser is rarely the primary target, its makes little difference that he can keep himself alive. However if he becomes the target, he can keep himself alive better to throw out heals and what not.
The few pvp pugs I have done though, I have always gotten the comments along the lines of "great, an eng" or "why are you here?" before the match even gets going. Sure, they may be wrong, but its still enough to take the wind outta your sails.
So anyway, with the above comments in mind, what would be the recommended ship then for an eng in a cruiser?
I am leaning towards the Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit. Its got the turn rate of the Excel, with a decent console layout. I am not really a fan of the star cruiser or the Gal. My worry is that I have NEVER seen one of these things flying around. I mean I know their hull isn't that great comparatively speaking, but it's not that bad, especially for the tradeoff of higher turn with the power to cycle EPtS3. I finally got a T3 shipyard for my fleet and damn it, I wanna use it for something!
never trust someone that says captain type doesn't make much of a difference, thats so wrong its trolling. whats with all this denial of eng captains sucking? this isn't something thats debatable.
If your world revolves around 5 skills on long cool downs, then you must really like your view from under that bridge.
After rolling with an opvp pugmade saturday night I began to see post match just how far off engi healing is to sci healing. Not only in terms of healing but the other guy put out 10 times my damage and of course he has snb and sensor scan to help the tacs kill our targets.
I mean, my engi is good, I had thought to make a team using 2 tac 2 sci and me as the healer but now I'm thinking we would be alot stronger as a 3 tac 2 sci or 2 tac 3 sci team.
I dusted off my sci toon, but it feels weird not having RSF to go with TSS when I'm in trouble or MW when I'm in serious trouble!
If your world revolves around 5 skills on long cool downs, then you must really like your view from under that bridge.
C'mon, you have to admit that those five abilities with a max uptime of 10-27% during any 15 minute period (Cryptic likes 15 minutes) define a character more than their skill build, more than their ship selection, more than the gear they're using, more that what BOFFs they grab, the DOFFs they supplement their BOFFs with, the teamwork they're able to exhibit, and all the rest.
You have to admit that those five abilities with a downtime of at least 73% during any 15 minute period (Cryptic likes 15 minutes) define a character the most - that even though that downtime is increased by the use of Teams, SNB, placates/confuses, folks dying, and all the rest... that those five abilities are extremely important.
Put it to ya this way, in almost every single pvp match I go into, kills generally happen every few minutes, one or two every few minutes, making most matches last about 15 minutes or so. Wonder why that is? :P
Put it to ya this way, in almost every single pvp match I go into, kills generally happen every few minutes, one or two every few minutes, making most matches last about 15 minutes or so. Wonder why that is? :P
I always thought alphas and snb went hand in hand. Alphas to force the guy to panic and RSP or the healer to waste his heals and SNB to wipe the slate clean, finish the job, and hopefully have enough time on alpha to kill a second target while the healer is waiting on cooldowns.
I always thought alphas and snb went hand in hand. Alphas to force the guy to panic and RSP or the healer to waste his heals and SNB to wipe the slate clean, finish the job, and hopefully have enough time on alpha to kill a second target while the healer is waiting on cooldowns.
I has alot to learn...
No, don't listen to me.
For the post part, against good teams - they're going to react pretty fast so you'll need that Tac Alpha during the opener that the Sci create. Without it, the other team should be able to cover the gap created. There will be that much crosshealing, etc, etc, etc that unless you can get the multiple Tacs working in conjunction with the multiple Scis - it's just not going to happen.
whats with all this denial of eng captains sucking? this isn't something thats debatable.
1. Eng captains are only bad in PvP because alpha strikes are king.
2. Most people don't PvP.
Eng captains do fine in eSTFs, since that lets your escort sit there and blast away without ever having to retreat. Lack of Eng/Sci stations for shield healing is compensated by RSF, and of course MW is generally enough to keep you from having to retreat. NI counters some of the drains and will up the DPS from CRF or CSV, and EPS Transfer lets you jump from Full Impulse straight into combat.
In any case, this means the majority of people (who don't PvP) won't see any problems with Eng caps. In PvP of course, there's a lot of builds that are non-viable regardless of captain.
I can see where both arguments are true. The eng captain is a very good tank, but most abilities that come from the eng are for self tanking, and since and eng in a cruiser is rarely the primary target, its makes little difference that he can keep himself alive. However if he becomes the target, he can keep himself alive better to throw out heals and what not.
The few pvp pugs I have done though, I have always gotten the comments along the lines of "great, an eng" or "why are you here?" before the match even gets going. Sure, they may be wrong, but its still enough to take the wind outta your sails.
I think the engineer is weak, but I've never gotten that sort of comment in PvP. PvE is a different story, since healing is useless in PvE, but when people see an engineer in a cruiser in PvP they get a little hopeful that you might be a healer.
If anything I see more of that dread when people see yet another tactical in a cruiser, since you can usually be sure that the tac won't be trying to do anything other than DPS, and probably doing a bad job of it.
If the see the fuzzy green beams going out, and the shields extending from your ship, they'll know why you are there, and appreciate it. All the self-heals actually do help a lot for a healer, since they can save your bacon when your BOff abilities are on cooldown and the other team suddenly shifts fire to you.
So anyway, with the above comments in mind, what would be the recommended ship then for an eng in a cruiser?
I am leaning towards the Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit. Its got the turn rate of the Excel, with a decent console layout. I am not really a fan of the star cruiser or the Gal. My worry is that I have NEVER seen one of these things flying around. I mean I know their hull isn't that great comparatively speaking, but it's not that bad, especially for the tradeoff of higher turn with the power to cycle EPtS3. I finally got a T3 shipyard for my fleet and damn it, I wanna use it for something!
I can't vouch for the heavy cruiser retrofit -- I never see them around either.
I gave them some consideration, but I just don't like the look of the ship.
Mostly I've been using an Oddy lately -- yeah, the 6 turn sucks, but I usually fly it with the saucer detached, and that's good enough to stay on the heals of my team's escorts. I've been using it with 3 engineering ensigns, which is not optimal, but not horrible either (ET 1 is not useless as a back-up to HE and Aux to SIF, and EPtAux 1 with the right DOffs is actually pretty damn useful when you're relying on your aux heals). I'm kind of planning to switch to the fleet Galaxy-R eventually.
Both the 6-turn cruisers can actually be much more maneuverable, so I wouldn't write them off.
Seems to me the reason there are so many tac builds for the Excelsior is that if you are a tac and want to fly a cruiser, that is the only one fit for you. A tac in any other cruiser is just rubbish.
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STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I can't really understand why someone would recommend the Regent over the Excel for anyone, let alone an Engie (I find the Regent is the overall less competitive ship).
One of the main problems with the Lt. Com Tac ships on non-Tacticals is that there's a lack of anything to slot other than Attack Patterns. Patterns do best the more you're ramping up the damage, something hard to come by for an Engie.
If your world revolves around 5 skills on long cool downs, then you must really like your view from under that bridge.
Those abilities really do make a massive difference at critical moments (those are the moments where points are scored in serious/semi-serious games). The reason Tactical buffs (especially APA and double-especially GDF) are so strong is that player ships are balanced around a steady exchange of fire and restorative healing. Tact buffs "overclock" your damage so to speak, meaning you're dealing overwhelmingly more than player ships are built to handle.
SNB also does the same thing via different means. If these buffs didn't exist a good majority of games would never end.
I can't really understand why someone would recommend the Regent over the Excel for anyone, let alone an Engie (I find the Regent is the overall less competitive ship).
One of the main problems with the Lt. Com Tac ships on non-Tacticals is that there's a lack of anything to slot other than Attack Patterns. Patterns do best the more you're ramping up the damage, something hard to come by for an Engie.
I'm not even sure why people would think that an Eng should be about damage in the first place.
If your world revolves around 5 skills on long cool downs, then you must really like your view from under that bridge.
i bet you think you just need to apply enough DPS to a target and it dies, and that tac captains only do that a bit better then other captains. heres a clue, the captain powers, be them tac or sci, are the reason anyone dies in pvp. not the station powers, those help, but arent enough, its stacking APA, GDF and tac fleet that will get you a kill. sometimes all you need is APA with tac station powers to get a kill an eng never would have been able too. or if someone is under heavy fire and has a ton of defense running, nuke them and they will pop like a balloon. or that tac loaded to bear that i just described? nuke him as soon as he activates those buffs to save someones life almost assuredly.
this is why eng sucks, its like a tac or sci captain that never uses its captain powers. all they have is 2 useless or redundant power related abilities, and 2 self heal that to a decent dedicated healer are a drop in the bucket compared to how powerful their other healing should be.
C'mon, you have to admit that those five abilities with a max uptime of 10-27% during any 15 minute period (Cryptic likes 15 minutes) define a character more than their skill build, more than their ship selection, more than the gear they're using, more that what BOFFs they grab, the DOFFs they supplement their BOFFs with, the teamwork they're able to exhibit, and all the rest.
You have to admit that those five abilities with a downtime of at least 73% during any 15 minute period (Cryptic likes 15 minutes) define a character the most - that even though that downtime is increased by the use of Teams, SNB, placates/confuses, folks dying, and all the rest... that those five abilities are extremely important.
1. Eng captains are only bad in PvP because alpha strikes are king.
2. Most people don't PvP.
Eng captains do fine in eSTFs, since that lets your escort sit there and blast away without ever having to retreat. Lack of Eng/Sci stations for shield healing is compensated by RSF, and of course MW is generally enough to keep you from having to retreat. NI counters some of the drains and will up the DPS from CRF or CSV, and EPS Transfer lets you jump from Full Impulse straight into combat.
In any case, this means the majority of people (who don't PvP) won't see any problems with Eng caps. In PvP of course, there's a lot of builds that are non-viable regardless of captain.
implying eng captains are good in pve? umm, they arent actually, they are dealing the least dps. the only thing any ship has to worry about in an stf is the 1 shots, not borg dps. the forum is full of angry pve'ers complaining about cruisers and eng related things, the majority of people here are not happy.
eng captain skills are training wheels for learning how to play more useful captains. i wouldn't trade a single eng captain skill for anything my tacs have, or anything a sci has. all the defensive passives and equipment sets and the hilariously good shields have taken all need of eng captains out of qued pve completely. sci is not especially useful there ether.
implying eng captains are good in pve? umm, they arent actually, they are dealing the least dps. the only thing any ship has to worry about in an stf is the 1 shots, not borg dps. the forum is full of angry pve'ers complaining about cruisers and eng related things, the majority of people here are not happy.
Cruisers != Eng Captain.
An eSTF lasts all of 6 minutes. Captain abilities get fired once. Tacs get an alpha on the toughest enemy present, Engs get to recover without having to retreat once. The difference is minimal.
An eSTF lasts all of 6 minutes. Captain abilities get fired once. Tacs get an alpha on the toughest enemy present, Engs get to recover without having to retreat once. The difference is minimal.
#1 How is you took 6 minutes.
#2 Looked at the CDs for APA, SNB and RSF.
Divided #1 by #2.
...and came up with "once".
Oh yeah, by the way, this is the PvP forum. Sometimes fights last 15 minutes, sometimes 30.
Comments
Scroll down to the second post.
That's something that I just can't agree with...
With the exception of calling Eng captains plain bad, I agree with everything here.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
completely outdated anyway. i mean that was even before technician doffs had this huge impact on dps cruisers and he advices on a EPS console...
i mean basically those builds are ok, but need revisiting and editing.
But if you're an engineer and you need something to add a little DPS while PUGging or doing PvE, the Excelsior is not horrible. Just be aware that most of your effective damage will come from EWP, so you'll want your Particle Generators as high as you can manage, and you'll probably want to time your Attack Pattern Omega use to coincide with laying down EWP.
I definitely wouldn't recommend the Excelsior for team play, but I've zoned into so many PUGs in a team-oriented heal-boat and found myself with four team-mates who are so focussed on staying alive that they neither need heals nor are able to carry their weight in DPS. Or else I wind up with a Recluse healer and find my healing cruiser entirely superfluous. In those cases, the team would be better off if I brought the Excelsior.
But if you're able to organize and balance the team at all beforehand, the engineer should be in a real healing boat.
I do tend to agree with the fact that Eng captains are kind of, lets say, less than worthwhile, in PvP. 90% of their ability to heal comes from the ship's boff layout, rather than the Captain. Rotate Shield Frequency is self only, which does allow for reaching the cap of shield damage reduction, but the difference between 60 SDR and 75 SDR seems minimal. And miracle working has such a long cool down, combined with the fact that it really is not that much of a difference maker. EPS is alright, but the same effect can be replicated by other skills. So on the point of Engineers being kind of pointless, I tend to agree. However, I will slug through it anyway.
It seems then, to be the most effective healboat or tank, I should roll with the free Assault cruiser, Fleet Heavy cruiser retrofit (which ever is the better one of the 2 fleet heavy cruiser), or an Ody (but with 6 turn, I won't pay money for that thing).
Yeah the Excel and the Regent do fine in ESTF's, but I have built them for PvP, so anything with a PvP build will Roflstomp PvE TRIBBLE.
I have done a few PUG pvp matches, and I am just finding it harder and harder to find a roll as a tank. I dont really want to put the eng in an escort as its kind gimp, or switch to my Tac, but I'd hate to have all that work getting MK12 gear go to waste.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
the regent isnt any better then the excelsior for an eng. the 3 eng ensigns is the worst type to have 3 ensigns of the same type of, but having more tac stations is not going to make you better at healing.
there is a single situation were an eng is ideal, when you are puging solo as a dedicated healer. you cant rely on a second healer, just yourself, your self heals would actually be handy. on a team a sci healer brings debuffs and sci fleet with him, and there would be a second healer on the team too, making an eng captain redundant, and unideal. my advice would be if you want to use tac heavy cruisers is to stop bothering with your eng. make a tac to do all your damage dealing with, be it in a tac heavy cruiser or escort.
No. I do fine with my Dedicated Auxiliary spike per tank engineer cruiser its really viable in a premade I basically tank all 5 players because I have +Th threat control consoles and thy have plenty of reason to try kill me. Then my team has plenty of time to finish off all the opponents.
You're wrong Hurley. I do just fine in my Galaxy cruiser / Engineer class with:
2x EPTS3, RSP3 / RSP2, RSF, Miracle, TSS, HE, 2x Intertial damps
4x Neutronium MK XII Purple
4x Field Generators MK XII Purple
2x Tacteam
Fleet Shields/Maco
Tier 5 rommy cloak
Fixed 125 Aux/shields
3x BFI doffs
Did i forgot elite fleet weaps that heal myself?
I tank like a bird.
The few pvp pugs I have done though, I have always gotten the comments along the lines of "great, an eng" or "why are you here?" before the match even gets going. Sure, they may be wrong, but its still enough to take the wind outta your sails.
So anyway, with the above comments in mind, what would be the recommended ship then for an eng in a cruiser?
I am leaning towards the Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit. Its got the turn rate of the Excel, with a decent console layout. I am not really a fan of the star cruiser or the Gal. My worry is that I have NEVER seen one of these things flying around. I mean I know their hull isn't that great comparatively speaking, but it's not that bad, especially for the tradeoff of higher turn with the power to cycle EPtS3. I finally got a T3 shipyard for my fleet and damn it, I wanna use it for something!
I mean, my engi is good, I had thought to make a team using 2 tac 2 sci and me as the healer but now I'm thinking we would be alot stronger as a 3 tac 2 sci or 2 tac 3 sci team.
I dusted off my sci toon, but it feels weird not having RSF to go with TSS when I'm in trouble or MW when I'm in serious trouble!
C'mon, you have to admit that those five abilities with a max uptime of 10-27% during any 15 minute period (Cryptic likes 15 minutes) define a character more than their skill build, more than their ship selection, more than the gear they're using, more that what BOFFs they grab, the DOFFs they supplement their BOFFs with, the teamwork they're able to exhibit, and all the rest.
You have to admit that those five abilities with a downtime of at least 73% during any 15 minute period (Cryptic likes 15 minutes) define a character the most - that even though that downtime is increased by the use of Teams, SNB, placates/confuses, folks dying, and all the rest... that those five abilities are extremely important.
C'mon...
SNB.
You don't need Tacs.
You just need Scis.
I has alot to learn...
No, don't listen to me.
For the post part, against good teams - they're going to react pretty fast so you'll need that Tac Alpha during the opener that the Sci create. Without it, the other team should be able to cover the gap created. There will be that much crosshealing, etc, etc, etc that unless you can get the multiple Tacs working in conjunction with the multiple Scis - it's just not going to happen.
1. Eng captains are only bad in PvP because alpha strikes are king.
2. Most people don't PvP.
Eng captains do fine in eSTFs, since that lets your escort sit there and blast away without ever having to retreat. Lack of Eng/Sci stations for shield healing is compensated by RSF, and of course MW is generally enough to keep you from having to retreat. NI counters some of the drains and will up the DPS from CRF or CSV, and EPS Transfer lets you jump from Full Impulse straight into combat.
In any case, this means the majority of people (who don't PvP) won't see any problems with Eng caps. In PvP of course, there's a lot of builds that are non-viable regardless of captain.
If anything I see more of that dread when people see yet another tactical in a cruiser, since you can usually be sure that the tac won't be trying to do anything other than DPS, and probably doing a bad job of it.
If the see the fuzzy green beams going out, and the shields extending from your ship, they'll know why you are there, and appreciate it. All the self-heals actually do help a lot for a healer, since they can save your bacon when your BOff abilities are on cooldown and the other team suddenly shifts fire to you.
I can't vouch for the heavy cruiser retrofit -- I never see them around either.
I gave them some consideration, but I just don't like the look of the ship.
Mostly I've been using an Oddy lately -- yeah, the 6 turn sucks, but I usually fly it with the saucer detached, and that's good enough to stay on the heals of my team's escorts. I've been using it with 3 engineering ensigns, which is not optimal, but not horrible either (ET 1 is not useless as a back-up to HE and Aux to SIF, and EPtAux 1 with the right DOffs is actually pretty damn useful when you're relying on your aux heals). I'm kind of planning to switch to the fleet Galaxy-R eventually.
Both the 6-turn cruisers can actually be much more maneuverable, so I wouldn't write them off.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
One of the main problems with the Lt. Com Tac ships on non-Tacticals is that there's a lack of anything to slot other than Attack Patterns. Patterns do best the more you're ramping up the damage, something hard to come by for an Engie.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Those abilities really do make a massive difference at critical moments (those are the moments where points are scored in serious/semi-serious games). The reason Tactical buffs (especially APA and double-especially GDF) are so strong is that player ships are balanced around a steady exchange of fire and restorative healing. Tact buffs "overclock" your damage so to speak, meaning you're dealing overwhelmingly more than player ships are built to handle.
SNB also does the same thing via different means. If these buffs didn't exist a good majority of games would never end.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I'm not even sure why people would think that an Eng should be about damage in the first place.
i bet you think you just need to apply enough DPS to a target and it dies, and that tac captains only do that a bit better then other captains. heres a clue, the captain powers, be them tac or sci, are the reason anyone dies in pvp. not the station powers, those help, but arent enough, its stacking APA, GDF and tac fleet that will get you a kill. sometimes all you need is APA with tac station powers to get a kill an eng never would have been able too. or if someone is under heavy fire and has a ton of defense running, nuke them and they will pop like a balloon. or that tac loaded to bear that i just described? nuke him as soon as he activates those buffs to save someones life almost assuredly.
this is why eng sucks, its like a tac or sci captain that never uses its captain powers. all they have is 2 useless or redundant power related abilities, and 2 self heal that to a decent dedicated healer are a drop in the bucket compared to how powerful their other healing should be.
you should know better
implying eng captains are good in pve? umm, they arent actually, they are dealing the least dps. the only thing any ship has to worry about in an stf is the 1 shots, not borg dps. the forum is full of angry pve'ers complaining about cruisers and eng related things, the majority of people here are not happy.
eng captain skills are training wheels for learning how to play more useful captains. i wouldn't trade a single eng captain skill for anything my tacs have, or anything a sci has. all the defensive passives and equipment sets and the hilariously good shields have taken all need of eng captains out of qued pve completely. sci is not especially useful there ether.
An eSTF lasts all of 6 minutes. Captain abilities get fired once. Tacs get an alpha on the toughest enemy present, Engs get to recover without having to retreat once. The difference is minimal.
#1 How is you took 6 minutes.
#2 Looked at the CDs for APA, SNB and RSF.
Divided #1 by #2.
...and came up with "once".
Oh yeah, by the way, this is the PvP forum. Sometimes fights last 15 minutes, sometimes 30.
Some fights are legendary and can last for hours.