Request for Gal-X Spinal lance Buff

bubblygumsworth

So I rarely play Fed as I'm a fan of being the hated underdog minority. But recently I decided to pull the old fed engineer toon out and take the Gal-X out for a spin. Aux to batt build with single cannons and turrets for the lulz.

After a couple of hours I looked back and ask myself "why the hell did I waste money on this PoS?" I think the thing that annoys me is that the spinal lance sucks. You'd think that a ship that is so heavy to turn would pay off when you finally get a ship into your firing arc of the spinal lance, but it doesnt.

90% of the time the thing misses, and when it does hit I'm thinking that a BO2 could do a better job compared to the spinal lance.

This is a request for a spinal lance buff (be it either a cool down reduction or a damage and accuracy buff). I'm not asking for the ability to change energy type or the ability for saucer separation... just a buff for the spinal lance.

Note: Noticing all of the Andorian escort captain cries for buffs (even though they dont need it) which have been answered and applied by the devs made me want to try ask for a spinal lance buff. I did pay money for this ship, will my request fall on dead ears while the devs are too busy buffing their latest cash cow?


(While we're at it buff the Guramba's Lance too ^_^)

elandarksky

if i remeber...

It looks like a BO2 because it isnt a single burst? the lance fires 2-3 shots per use doesnt it?
Add those together, and its likely more than a BO2

(you can even sink a wep battery with precise timing, making it even better ^^)

But thats a shakey memory ^^;

bubblygumsworth

elandarksky wrote: »

if i remeber...

It looks like a BO2 because it isnt a single burst? the lance fires 2-3 shots per use doesnt it?
Add those together, and its likely more than a BO2

(you can even sink a wep battery with precise timing, making it even better ^^)

But thats a shakey memory ^^;

I'll post my build in about 20 mins. Yeah it is about 2-3 bursts of about 10k damage total or something (I'll have to check the numbers), but if one shot misses they all do... as if each shot is classed as one shot with an animation that fires 3 times. I'm running aux to batt and I'm an engineer, at some times I can get my subsystems up to about 125 each (excluding aux) while also popping a weapons battery.

Unknown

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dalnar83

It just needs its accuracy fixed. That weapon misses like 9/10 times.

bubblygumsworth

Skill Tree

Fore
[Phaser Cannon Mk XI [Acc]x3]
[Phaser Cannon Mk XI [Acc]x3]
[Phaser Cannon Mk XI [Acc]x3]
[Breen Transphasic Cluster Torpedo](I would use the Wide Angle Quantum torp but I refuse to spend money on my Fed toon until more KDF content is released)

Deflector
[M.A.C.O. Graviton Deflector Array Mk XII]

Engines
[M.A.C.O. Impulse Engines Mk XII]

Shield
[M.A.C.O. Resilient Shield Array Mk XII]

Aft
[Phaser Turret Mk XI [Acc] [CrtH] [Borg]]
[Phaser Turret Mk XII [Acc] [CrtH] [Borg]]
[Phaser Turret Mk XI [Acc] [CrtH] [Borg]]
[Phaser Turret Mk XII [Acc] [CrtH] [Borg]]

Devices
[Subspace Field Modulator]
[Prototype Ablative Jevonite Hardpoints]
[Weapons Battery]
[Auxiliary Battery]

Engineering
[Console - Universal - Cloaking Device]
[Console - Engineering - Neutronium Alloy Mk XII]
[Console - Engineering - Neutronium Alloy Mk XI]
[Console - Engineering - Neutronium Alloy Mk XI]

Science
[Console - Science - Field Generator Mk XI]
[Console - Science - Field Generator Mk XI]

Tactical
[Console - Tactical - Phaser Relay Mk XI]
[Console - Tactical - Phaser Relay Mk XII]
[Console - Tactical - Phaser Relay Mk XI]

BOFF Stations
Tactical Team I
Cannon Rapid Fire I

Tactical Team I

Emergency Power to Shields I
Extend Shields I
Directed Energy Modulation II
Auxiliary to Structural Integrity III

Emergency Power to Shields I
Reverse Shield Polarity I
Auxiliary Power to the Emergency Battery II

Tractor Beam
Hazard Emitters II

Active Doffs
3x Technician (Aux2Batt)
1x Marion Frances Dulmur (Reduction of weapon subsystem energy drain when using DEM)
1x Shield Distribution officer (Shield regen after using BFI)

Bridge officers.
2x Human Tactical Officers
2x Human Engineering Officers
1x Human Science Officer

bubblygumsworth

I'm going to do a couple of tests in the Advanced combat tracker. 9-10 minute runs of ISE, one will be the cannon/turret build and the other will be a beam bank with BO2 build to compare a BO2 to the spinal lance. I'll post the results below.

Gal-X cannon/turret build.

Gal-X Beam/BO2 build (WIP)

neo1nx

It looks like a BO2 because it isnt a single burst? the lance fires 2-3 shots per use doesnt it?
Add those together, and its likely more than a BO2

as if each shot is classed as one shot with an animation that fires 3 times

no.
it is only 2 burst, it never been more than that.
properly buff by tact power it can do much more damage than BO2.
the problem is that you can't alway have these buff so generally it daes less damage than BO2.
this is further enhanced by the fact that the total damage is divided by 2, you can hit the target in first shot and miss in the second, or do half damage in second shot.
that is when it just don't totally miss the target, wich when you targeting an escort with a minimum defense skill point will happened a lot, 9 out of 10 is very accurate statistic.

dump a weapons batterie in between the shot is not taking into account by the weapon, at the moment you click on the power, the damage is calculated with the power level ou have at that time, and daes not improve with batterie after the first shot.

that also why the gurumba lance feel more powerfull, all the power it have is on a single burst, so when it hit, it hit harder.

the dev should put this is the description of the lance:

have 80% chance to deal less damage due the second fire miss
have 90% chance to completely miss against faster target

really cryptic you really should buff this lance in a proper way.
adding ten thousand damage will not help us if it miss or do half the damage it is supposed to do.
i am sure that having accurate trait will not be day and night either, even if it would help.

jcsww

I don't think the Lance needs a buff at all. When used correctly, you can one-shot your opponent easily. However, I would like to see a console mod that has to be crafted to change the weapon type of the Phaser Lance to something like Disruptor or Polaron.

khayuung

The lance relies on a touch mechanic to hit (ie if target is on the trajectory the shot hits, otherwise no damage, not even a Miss registered) allowing you to hit the target and anything behind it.

It also has the 'one crit both crits' effect that made TCDs so deadly pre-nerf.

The best way to shoot the weapon is from behind and the target is travelling in a straight line away from you. The best way to avoid the weapon is to bank port or starboard, hard, such that you only take 1 hit.

But I agree, the lance should have a wider beam, because it kills everything but escorts well, and the game already overwhelmingly favors escorts too much.

neo1nx

I don't think the Lance needs a buff at all. When used correctly, you can one-shot your opponent easily

i use it correctly, it just miss too much.
many time the target was 3km in front of me, blocked by my tractor beam....my lance miss it...completely!

it also have a too long time to activate, when i am too close to the target like 3km, the time i clik on the power and that it actually fire, i have pass the target.

they are too much condition that are not player dependant that make this weapons a joke.
there the hit chance that are condition by skillpoint layout and toon trait but can largely be offset by the natural defense rating of escort.

the target must be in front of you,at the right distance, moving in the same direction and don't deviate a finger for about a maximum of 3 to 4 second ( the time that you see it, activate you power and finally that the power hit the target ).
that is not too complicated for pve, but is a different story in pvp.

i remember countless occasion where i just choose my target behind my cloack and wait for the poper time ( the target don't do circle with evasive maneuver for example ) at the proper distance, decloak, tractor the target and fire the lance with all my buff....MISS!!
but it will not miss the power drain on your weapon level, that you can be sure.
yeah sometime it hit.
and sometime it hit very hard! but these are the exeption that confirm the rule.
if i didn't known better, i would probably see the hard hit it daes every millenia as bug.

drudgy

jcsww wrote: »

I don't think the Lance needs a buff at all. When used correctly, you can one-shot your opponent easily. However, I would like to see a console mod that has to be crafted to change the weapon type of the Phaser Lance to something like Disruptor or Polaron.

Lol, have you ever flown the Galaxy-X? You won't one shot kill anything unless the hull is below 10%, shields are down, and even at that it's pretty up in the air if it even hits.

I've been flying my Galaxy-X as a beam boat tank/healer and it's been working alright, but I do agree the biggest problem with the lance is the accuracy is broken. You would be better off flying it straight into a planet and shooting at it, but even then you still might miss.

On the rare instance I do actually hit someone it does anywhere between 7K to 13K per strike, but it all depends on what resistance the thing i'm shooting has. If the shields are up it's usually around 3K.

chillee

If you are a TAC, you are doing it wrong. I miss maybe 1 in 10 times... get a minimum of 10K per strike, usually 20-25K per strike. A critical lands me 40-65K per each strike.

It is NOT a twitch weapon. If you think ahead, activate your buffs AND debuffs, and ideally as the target's shields are collapsing, you can reproduce the results.

I don't think a damage buff is necessary, the accuracy maybe moreso, only because people complains it misses (hey, what weapon hits automatically?). A reduced cooldown to 2 minutes would be great. I also am opposed to making it a console where you can change the energy type. It is supposed to be a phaser! Can you imagine an antiproton version that crits?

An improved Gal-X just needs the lance tweaked, the extra console slot, and perhaps changing the Lt Tac stations to a universal LtCdr slot. Keep the same pitiful turn rate but implement the saucer separation (but no shot-gun version of the lance in this mode, just make the lance inactive, but give the separated parts near-escort turn rates).

chk231

The Galaxy X WILL BE getting Saucer Separation according to developer blogs. It's been stated several times. As far as when it's happening I'm not sure, but it will be sometime around Season 8.

neo1nx

If you are a TAC, you are doing it wrong. I miss maybe 1 in 10 times... get a minimum of 10K per strike, usually 20-25K per strike. A critical lands me 40-65K per each strike

i am a tact and i am not doing it wrong, i just fighting hight defense score escort and i don't have the accuracy trait, wich don't help.
but even if i have it i am sure it will still not be " night and day".
many time i found myself firing BO instead of the lance to not miss an opportunitie to kill, or to simply do some damage.

that the problem with this weapons, the conditions for it to succeed are too hight in comparison to what we can achieve with it.
a BO3 buff with the tact abilities will do more damage, more reliably and more often.

BO3: 30 sec cooldown, virtually 360 degree firing arc, accuracy enhanced with acc3 weapons, toon trait, skill and gear.

lance: 3min cooldown ( 3X 60 sec ), 45 degree fore firing arc, accuracy can only be enhanced by toon trait, skill and gear.
the enemie must be flying toward you or in a straight line away from you, and not deviate a finger from that ( i don't known about you but i have still never found myself against an escort that fly in straight line... do any player fly in straight line anyway?).

of course it better to fire it to an enemi that don't have too much shield on left and not too much hull either.... well in that case any simple BO will do the job just as good without being force to fire every leap years, when mercury and pluto are perfectly aligned with the sun and my grandfather wearing bikini on the beach this summer!...seriously!

i am not for a buff of the weapons, when it hit good, it is good.
my choice would be a reduced cooldown to 2 min and that it accuracy been enhanced.

however knowning cryptic for a time now, that may even not be possible, hence my first proposal of buffing it firepower, it will still miss as much but when it don't, the guy in front of me will paid for all the previous miss XD.

neo1nx

ho man, i just went looking to your skillpoint layout.
you have many things to correct.

i don't known if your a tact officer, but even if your not weapons training should be at 9.i don't anderstand why you put 9 point in batterie, maybe you want to transform the red matter capacitor into a little EPSpower transfer, if that the case it not worht it.

having point in subsystem repair is completely useless, especially with the recent change made to bo, now that the human are working , they will give you the point you want without spending a single point in these.

do i miss somehting or you don't have any point in impule truster? when flying a 6 base turnrate ship?!! i would anderstand that you don't put 9 point in it, but 0?!?!

6 point in threat control is questionable but you may want to aggro and tank enemie so i leave that to you, this is mostly a choice, so if this is the intende it all good.

however 9 point in hull plating is too much, 6 will do fine, as well as 6 in reinforcment is too much ( i personally put 0 here)
if you want kinetic resist, use brace for impact, subspace field modifier,

3 point in aux performance is also questionable due to the bonus set of the adapted maco.
and finally energy weapons specialisation should be at 9, or at least 6

jcsww

drudgy wrote: »

Lol, have you ever flown the Galaxy-X? You won't one shot kill anything unless the hull is below 10%, shields are down, and even at that it's pretty up in the air if it even hits.

I've been flying my Galaxy-X as a beam boat tank/healer and it's been working alright, but I do agree the biggest problem with the lance is the accuracy is broken. You would be better off flying it straight into a planet and shooting at it, but even then you still might miss.

On the rare instance I do actually hit someone it does anywhere between 7K to 13K per strike, but it all depends on what resistance the thing i'm shooting has. If the shields are up it's usually around 3K.

Actually, I do and it's not difficult to do. Clearly you have no clue in how to utilize such a great ship.

admiralq1732

I fly Gal X and the two things the lance needs is a n accuracy boost and the energy type mod. I was forced to use phasers on my to maximize the damage a Lance can do. but would rather have antiproton.

bubblygumsworth

neo1nx wrote: »

ho man, i just went looking to your skillpoint layout.
you have many things to correct.

i don't known if your a tact officer, but even if your not weapons training should be at 9.i don't anderstand why you put 9 point in batterie, maybe you want to transform the red matter capacitor into a little EPSpower transfer, if that the case it not worht it.

having point in subsystem repair is completely useless, especially with the recent change made to bo, now that the human are working , they will give you the point you want without spending a single point in these.

do i miss somehting or you don't have any point in impule truster? when flying a 6 base turnrate ship?!! i would anderstand that you don't put 9 point in it, but 0?!?!

6 point in threat control is questionable but you may want to aggro and tank enemie so i leave that to you, this is mostly a choice, so if this is the intende it all good.

however 9 point in hull plating is too much, 6 will do fine, as well as 6 in reinforcment is too much ( i personally put 0 here)
if you want kinetic resist, use brace for impact, subspace field modifier,

3 point in aux performance is also questionable due to the bonus set of the adapted maco.
and finally energy weapons specialisation should be at 9, or at least 6

:P He is an engineer, he also needs a respec as I have not used him for over a yeah haha.

doomicile

Just like most ships, it's only truly effective with a Tac behind it. A Tac Captain can buff that Lance to do around 75k. With an Engineer, the Lance is basically a glorified Pool Noodle.

Engineers are what really need a buff, a complete overhaul, really.

The G-X could use either another Tac Console or LtCm Tac BOFF.

squishkin

Not exactly what you want to hear, I'm sure, but I always thought that the spinal lance should have been a standard, integrated weapon with a 10-25 degree firing arc, 15km range, long cooldown, short firing cycle, and high drain- something like a torpedo energy weapon.

Having it the way it is seems somewhat like a waste to me.

centersolace

squishkin wrote: »

Not exactly what you want to hear, I'm sure, but I always thought that the spinal lance should have been a standard, integrated weapon with a 10-25 degree firing arc, 15km range, long cooldown, short firing cycle, and high drain- something like a torpedo energy weapon.

Having it the way it is seems somewhat like a waste to me.

Let me guess... you're a tactical officer or an engineer, or a sci who has no idea what he's doing.

Pro Tip: Firing off a Subneucleonic Beam and blasting a downed shield is a great way to ruin someones day.

Honestly though, if I had my druthers, the Spinal Lance would have a 3 degree firing arc, but would have charges that it would gain over time like the Omega Torpedo, allowing you to spread them out, or rapid fire them all in a row.

terongray

I grabbed the Gal-X last summer and regretted it almost immediately. The Lance definitely could use an accuracy boost moreso than a damage boost, as it is almost guaranteed the second shot will miss, if not both; but when I do catch ships with both shots they are left critical if not popped. I even had a friend suggest that the Lance's energy type should match the majority of the weapons you have equipped, so if you fitted polaron weapons, the Lance would fired a polaron beam instead.

Also, it would be alot more offensively capable if the Lt. Tact and the L-Cmdr. Engi stations were reversed. It's portrayed to be Fed's heavy offensive cruiser, but the Assault and the Heavy Retro do it so much better. As it is now, the Dreadnought is a waste of money and not really worth occupying a ship slot.

squishkin

centersolace wrote: »

Let me guess... you're a tactical officer or an engineer, or a sci who has no idea what he's doing.

I've never actually flown the Gal-X, so I'm not speaking from experience, just from looking at the specs.

disposeableh3r0

It does need something, It's one of the least useful abilitys. the one on the garumba isn't much better.

What if it had the garumbas power drain mechanic?

What if it had 100% accuracy but lowered damage and add some kind of debuff? Like the heavy gravition beam.

doomicile

disposeableh3r0 wrote: »

It does need something, It's one of the least useful abilitys. the one on the garumba isn't much better.

What if it had the garumbas power drain mechanic?

What if it had 100% accuracy but lowered damage and add some kind of debuff? Like the heavy gravition beam.

I like the 100% accuracy idea and perhaps have it's damage reduced by a 3rd with each subsequent burst. So full damage the first burst, 2/3rds damage the second burst and 1/3rd damage the 3rd burst.

By the first burst, it should strip most of the target's shields. The second burst would strip whatever remaining shields and start carving the hull. The third burst would be all hull. Finish her off with a HYT.

Considering how hard it is to get a competant player into your firing arc and be able to maintain that long enough to get the Lance off, I don't think this would be game-breaking at all.

smokeybacon90

The spinal lance was not some uber beam of death in the show.

I would like to see it changed to a weapon, possibly an Accx4 High DPS Phaser Beam, with a 45 degree arc and standard beam array cooldown time, but not affected by BO, BFAW or Beam Target X.

neo1nx

I'm going to do a couple of tests in the Advanced combat tracker. 9-10 minute runs of ISE, one will be the cannon/turret build and the other will be a beam bank with BO2 build to compare a BO2 to the spinal lance. I'll post the results below.

Gal-X cannon/turret build.

Gal-X Beam/BO2 build (WIP)

i am still waiting your link for the damage with your beam build, i would like too, to compared the utility of a canon build vs a beam build in the current state of this ship.

i think i already known the answer since your an engi and don't have tactical initiative to virtually transform your 1 canon power into 2, but i alway like comparative number.

chillee

doomicile wrote: »

Just like most ships, it's only truly effective with a Tac behind it. A Tac Captain can buff that Lance to do around 75k. With an Engineer, the Lance is basically a glorified Pool Noodle.

Engineers are what really need a buff, a complete overhaul, really.

The G-X could use either another Tac Console or LtCm Tac BOFF.

And this as well...
The spinal lance was not some uber beam of death in the show.

I would like to see it changed to a weapon, possibly an Accx4 High DPS Phaser Beam, with a 45 degree arc and standard beam array cooldown time, but not affected by BO, BFAW or Beam Target X.

Agreed. I concur wholeheartedly.

aspartan1

chillee wrote: »

Agreed. I concur wholeheartedly.

I do as well. I felt like I waste the money for it within an hour of using it. I have not used it since.

eraserfish

aspartan1 wrote: »

I do as well. I felt like I waste the money for it within an hour of using it. I have not used it since.

I feel like that I've wasted money by investing into an Assault Refit, so I don't think it is a unique phenomenon. Federation cruisers are just generally underwhelming, at best.