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darkchaosbunniesdarkchaosbunnies Member Posts: 27 Arc User
edited March 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Hope this is the right place to post this.

So, I have never done space PvP before. But since they added marks to the daily wrapper I figured I'd give 'er a try. Went in, and popped someone right off the bat. Yeah! First victory! Then, a taste of reality. I couldn't drop anyone's shields. Not even the guy I popped before. I have a (what I think is good for PvE at least) good build, pushing an average of 6,200 dps in ISE runs. But I know that PvP is often very different from PvE. So I shall give my build, and if anyone is so kind, please give me your pointers on improvements or whether this is a lost cause, etc. Keep in mind this is one of my many ships with different builds, so I'm not incredibly partial to it. Just been using it a lot lately cause it is pretty awesome in PvE.

Me: Tactical Captain, specced almost fully into space

Ship: Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit

Fore: 2x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg] Purple, 1x Romulan Experimental Beam Array, 1x Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo

Aft: 3x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg] Purple

Set: Full Romulan Mk XII Purple set

Devices: Red Matter Capacitor, Shield Batteries

Eng Consoles: Tachyokinetic Converter, Zero-Point Energy Conduit, Assimilated Module

Sci Consoles: 2x Emitter Array Mk XII [-Th][Plasma] Ultraviolets from embassy

Tac Consoles: 5x Plasma Infuser Mk XI Blue

BOFF Powers, in ascending order:

Cmdr Tac: Tac Team 1, Beam FAW 2, Beam OL 3, AP Omega 3
Lt Cmdr Tac: Beam Target Shields 1, Tac Team 2, Torp HY 3
Ensign Tac: Torp Spread 1

Lt Eng: EP2Weapons 1, Eng Team 2

Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Hazard 2

Also have these passives from Omega Rep: Hull Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair
And from Romulan Rep: Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, Quantum Singularity Manipulation

So, tear apart! Or give feedback, or tell me I should trash the build and go with a different one. Whatever you think.
______________________________________________________________

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by darkchaosbunnies on

Comments

  • silverashes1silverashes1 Member Posts: 192 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    first off plasma ant worth anything in PvP everyone has a stf set shiled
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gradstudent1gradstudent1 Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Hope this is the right place to post this.

    So, I have never done space PvP before. But since they added marks to the daily wrapper I figured I'd give 'er a try. Went in, and popped someone right off the bat. Yeah! First victory! Then, a taste of reality. I couldn't drop anyone's shields. Not even the guy I popped before. I have a (what I think is good for PvE at least) good build, pushing an average of 6,200 dps in ISE runs. But I know that PvP is often very different from PvE. So I shall give my build, and if anyone is so kind, please give me your pointers on improvements or whether this is a lost cause, etc. Keep in mind this is one of my many ships with different builds, so I'm not incredibly partial to it. Just been using it a lot lately cause it is pretty awesome in PvE.

    Me: Tactical Captain, specced almost fully into space

    Ship: Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit

    Fore: 2x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg] Purple, 1x Romulan Experimental Beam Array, 1x Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo

    Aft: 3x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg] Purple

    Set: Full Romulan Mk XII Purple set

    Devices: Red Matter Capacitor, Shield Batteries

    Eng Consoles: Tachyokinetic Converter, Zero-Point Energy Conduit, Assimilated Module

    Sci Consoles: 2x Emitter Array Mk XII [-Th][Plasma] Ultraviolets from embassy

    Tac Consoles: 5x Plasma Infuser Mk XI Blue

    BOFF Powers, in ascending order:

    Cmdr Tac: Tac Team 1, Beam FAW 2, Beam OL 3, AP Omega 3
    Lt Cmdr Tac: Beam Target Shields 1, Tac Team 2, Torp HY 3
    Ensign Tac: Torp Spread 1

    Lt Eng: EP2Weapons 1, Eng Team 2

    Lt Sci: Polarize Hull 1, Hazard 2

    Also have these passives from Omega Rep: Hull Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair
    And from Romulan Rep: Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, Quantum Singularity Manipulation

    So, tear apart! Or give feedback, or tell me I should trash the build and go with a different one. Whatever you think.

    Let me be one of the first to welcome you to the PvP community. We are a passionate bunch who (generally) love to help out folks like yourself who are eager and willing to learn. No doubt you will gain some great input from some of the other tacs in this group, so I will let them work their magic. I only want to say that we would love to have you on board at PvP Boot Camp. The goal of Boot Camp is to help players take their pvp skills to the next level.

    Unfortunately, you are asking for hep when we are about 3/4 through the curriculum that we teach, so you can't join with the rest of the students who have already done the first three. However, on Saturday March 2, we will have an open PvP session on Saturday 5pm EST and 5pm CET where anyone can jump on to the Boot Camp TeamSpeak server and team up with other players who are trying to learn about PvP. Here is our Boot Camp TeamSpeak info:

    pvpbootcamp.com:1406

    Also, check out the PvP Boot Camp website: http://pvp-boot.camp.shivtr.com/

    And the subforum: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=351

    Please feel free to contact me ingame: @gradstudent1. I can try to include you in some matches. If I am on, it is probably to jump into the PvP ques, and you would be more than welcome to join the team.

    One more thing, if you use the STO Academy website to display your space skills and link it here, we can give you comments on how your skill tree is set up. Having a properly specced character is one of the most important aspects of PvP.
  • edited February 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Well thats a pve build alright. ;)

    As others have said welcome to STO pvp... yes it rewards some stuff... but that isn't the reason you will fall in love with it.

    If you are going to continue flying escorts in STO pvp you are going to have to play to your ships advantages.

    That would mean removing all the beams. :)

    As others have mentioned plasma weaponry is mostly terrible in PvP as everyone mostly has shields that have at least +20% resist to plasma.

    You are going to want to run cannons.... in a defiant a torpedo is ok... but you can't just dumb fire it like you can in PvE... you will have to bind your torp to its own key and fire it WHEN you see a good opportunity to hit a shield facing.

    There is some good starter threads here look around and get some ideas... Here is a basic good start build I would suggest... and honestly it will provide higher dps in STFS then what you where doing before most likely.

    You seem to have lots of rep done So I will assume you have some in game EC to drop on some new gear and possibly a few doffs... anyway try this out.

    Tac Team 1 - High Yield 2 - Rapid fire 2 - omega 3
    Tac Team 1 - Delta 1 - Rapid Fire 2
    High Yield 1

    Emergency Power to Engines 1 / or EPT Shields 1 - Emergency Power to Shields 2

    Transfer Shield strength 1 - hazards 2

    For Weapons....
    Buy OFF the exchange don't use rep or D to get junk fleet stuff its not great of pve.

    Buy what ever weapon type you like EXCEPT plasma... if you still plan to do lots of STFs get disruptors... as they still do very well in pve.
    For mods... go with [acc] or [crth]... any combo of the 2 is good. Some people will tell you [acc]x3 is best some will tell you [crth]x2... honestly grab whats cheap... Myself I run [acc] [crth]x2.

    3 Dual Heavy Cannons. 1 Quantum Torpedo (You want a high burst weapon to end people when a facing does drop... or when someone is working with very low shields on all sides that is when you launch)
    2 Turrets + the Kinetic Cutting beam in back

    For doffs....
    If you can afford it get 2 Attack pattern doffs. (they are purple conn doffs.) you only need 2 this will mean you will ALWAYS have an omega or delta up for more defense and dmg, turn ect.
    You will want 2 Damage Control Doffs... IF you want to run Emergency power to engines. this will allow you to keep your one copy of engines and your one copy of shields up 100%... if you don't want to use these doffs... just run 2 copies of EPTS
    as the last doff... put in Torpedo Doffs... 1 if you run dmg control... 3 if you don't.

    On your consoles... you are going to want to slot one Neutronium armour for sure... change as you see fit to make that happen. For your ship set... I would loose the romulan set... its fine for the pve setup you had of course... for pvp you are going to get shreded in that. If you can get the Maco shield... you then likely want to run the borg set engine and deflector for the extra hull heal. If you can't get a maco... get as good a Resilient shield as you can find. The fleet one if your fleet has access... or worst case buy a mk xii off the exchange.

    That should be a pretty solid defiant build for both pvp and pve.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
  • captainwessoncaptainwesson Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Hi, and welcome to PvP! As the others have said, the PvP community is mostly very eager to help increase players' knowledge so they can enjoy the pew even more and help promote the awesomeness that is PvP. I don't know if you've looked around on the PvP forums yet, but there are many threads and stickies that have great builds to work with. PvP is a different game than STF's, and if you do well in PvP (or even somewhat okay) you will tear through those nasty Borg like tissue paper. Hope you find all you are looking for! And here is a link to one of the sticky posts:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=274791

    Enjoy!
  • kronplah78kronplah78 Member Posts: 153 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Yep they are all right... PvE build alright..... Sorry to say your choking your damage pontential using a beam-scort. Also, using plasma? You need to get rid of that post haste. Tact/scort pilots should always utilize DHC (aka dual heavy cannons), especially in that Fleet Tact Escort, you have the turn rate to make it work. The Fleet Tact Escort (aka defiant) is a fearsome speedy hit n run ship, though it can hold it's own in a dogfight, depending on your piloting skills and that of your opponent's, there is a possibly you may fall short to a Fleet Escort (aka Sabre) or especially a JHAS, both of which can slightly out-tank you due to their boff station layout and engineering console layouts. But in the end is really comes down to the player skill, experience.

    Alot of these guys posting here are right. I would check out the threads on the top of the forums here on ship builds and the PvP help thread. Trust me you can't go wrong.

    Good luck! And can't wait to see you out in the battlefield to blow you up :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] THE POWER OF KRATOS!!!
  • corbinwolf#9797 corbinwolf Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Hi,

    Hilbert Guide and STO Planner are a good starting point too. As for PVP itself, it comes down to team work. If you like, pm me in game when you are ready and we can go over some of the basics I have taken away from my time at PVP boot camp thus far. Also, we can work together as a team.
    "The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody is gonna hit as hard as life. But it ain't about how hard ya hit. It's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward." - Rocky Balboa (2006)
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    First, let me put it into something easier for me to read. It's nothing against what you posted, it's an issue that I have. Lol, it's not you - it's me...muahahaha, but seriously - it is. I've gotten used to reading things a certain way for processing.
    Fleet Defiant - Tac Captain

    Traits - ?

    Passives
    New Rom - Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, QSM(Active)
    Omega - Hull-Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair

    TT1, FAW2, BO3, APO3
    BTS1, TT2, THY3
    TS1

    EPtW1, ET2
    PH1, HE2

    BOFF Species - ?

    DOFFs - ?

    Deflector - Romulan Mk XII
    Engine - Romulan Mk XII
    Shields - Romulan Mk XII

    Weapons
    Fore - Hyper-Plasma Torp, 2x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg], Experimental Beam Array
    Aft - 3x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc][Dmg]

    Consoles
    Tac - 5x Plasma Infuser Mk XI
    Eng - Tachyo, 0Point, Borg
    Sci - 2x Rom Emitter Mk XII [-Th][Pla]

    Devices - RMC, Shield Batt

    Oh, before I continue - I should offer my standard disclaimer. Ignore what I'm about to say. Seriously, I fly and post some of the flakiest stuff. Anybody will tell you that. :)

    Okay, so where to start? Hrmmm, I know - I'll post my Eng's build in his Chel Grett. To an extent, it's close to what it appears you're trying to do with your Defiant.

    Chel Grett - Eng Captain

    Traits - Accurate, Elusive, Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist

    Passives
    New Rom - Precision, Emergency Secondary Shielding, QSM(Active)
    Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Amplifier

    TT1, THY2, APO1, APO3
    TS1, FAW2

    EPtS1, AtS1
    EPtW1

    ST1, HE2, TSS3

    BOFF Species - 2x Hum Engs - (should be 3x Hum and 2x Rom Tac, but oh well)

    DOFFs - SDO(BFI), CONN(TT), 2x DCE(EPt), WCE(EPt) - (no doubt I need to tweak/upgrade this)

    Deflector - Aegis - (~980 Omega Marks away from the MACO Mk XII - have been for almost a week now, lol)
    Engine - Aegis
    Shields - MACO Mk XII

    Weapons
    Fore - Omega Torp, Experimental Beam Array, 2x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2
    Aft - Hyper-Plasma Torp, Cutting Beam, 2x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2

    Consoles
    Tac - 4x Plasma Infuser Mk XI
    Eng - Borg, Tachyo, Neut Mk XI
    Sci - EPM, 0Point, FG Mk XI

    Devices - SFM, Aux Batt, Eng Batt

    So perhaps you can see why I posted that - the similarities, so to speak, between my Eng in his Chel and your Tac in the Fleet Defiant. One can probably also see where you were going with trying to increase your Tac's Defense while I went with increasing my Eng's Offense.

    I'm just not sure you're going to get the synergy from what you're doing that I get from what I'm doing. Face it, a Tac's best defense is a combination of movement, somebody healing them, and killing the person trying to kill them as fast as possible.

    So I get the Arrays, it allows for easier movement - you can fly around going wheeee without having to maneuver and potentially sit on that 45 arc for the DHCs. But depending on how the rest of your toon's built, well - it may or may not fall into the category of not being as efficient as it could be. My Eng's sporting +90% Bonus Defense while he flies around going wheeeee - before taking into account APO, SFM, or EM. He carries two APOs to deal with tractors...and he also carries Eng Batts - he will pop one, EM, SFM, etc if he gets tractored while either of the APOs are on CD. My Engine disables don't last that long, but if the poops about to hit the fan - I'll waste the heal and eat the CD on MW to get out of there. You've got the single APO and the PH (as well as the RMC and ET) - that still leaves some gaps for folks to hold you there. Defense drops - and - respawn.

    With that being said, you may want (don't forget the disclaimer - ignore what I say!) to consider the following change to your Tac BOFFs:

    TT1, FAW2, BO3, APO3
    TT1, THY2, APO1
    TS1


    While I've got that there - there's the somewhat quiet debate that takes place in regard to the Accuracy of BO3. I don't want to get into that, but I do want to talk about your Accuracy overall, eh? Do you have the Accurate Trait? How many points do you have in Targeting? With what's showing, only your weapons with the single Acc mod have a bonus to Accuracy. That being +10%. If that's your only source, then say you were trying to hit my Eng from above - well, you'd only have a 55.6% chance of hitting me. That's just with the weapons with the Acc mod. It would be 52.6% chance for the other weapons. The Accurate Trait (+10%) and 9 in Targeting (+15%)...well, that would take you to 64.5% To-Hit.

    Sure, that may seem extreme - but there's folks over 100% base Bonus Defense because of gearing. Thissler's got a great post on the fruitlessness of chasing Defense though. It's a team thing, right? Get somebody to park that target. Depending on how their built, they might even end up at -15% Bonus Defense. I'm at +15% sitting still.

    So it's a case of just being aware of how Accuracy would come into play with regard to that BO - not wanting to waste it on some idiot like me flying around going wheeee - but wanting to use it on the target that somebody's parked (and they still park my noob butt, pesky chained SNB/VM/tractors).

    You can't really do anything about the somebody healing you part outside of running in a Premade or a PUGmade. If you're dancing in PUGland - you never know what you'll get. While it can be awesome to make something out of what looks like nothing in such matches, at other times it can set you up for a ton of frustration. PUGland's a gamble - it's a thrilling risk in my opinion - but it's not for everybody.

    Killing faster. That was the third part of what I mentioned about the Tac/Escort Defense thing, eh? As others have mentioned, well, Arrays aren't going to get that done. But wait, I've got Arrays on my Eng/Scort. But yeah, I'm fighting that battle of attrition...I'm timing abilities with what other folks are doing - I'm flying around going wheee and am able to toss some healing around. I prefer to grab the attention of some folks and have them focus on missing me.../cough. I loathe Sci. They ruin all my fun - bastiches! But yeah, I'll try to grab the attention of folks - so when they're not paying attention - the Tac/Escorts will shred them. I'll try to move the battle away from the healers - stretch folks out - etc, etc, etc. And oh yeah, I like shooting pets/mines/targetable torps. I'm playing my flaky/quirky part in the battle. As a Tac/Escort...well, it's not a case that you absolutely have to run DHCs...

    Interlude - yes, folks are calling me a complete nub at this point.

    ...but if you're not going to run them, you have to build around not running them. You're still a Tac. You're about killing stuff faster. Your Rep Passives - well, they're not about killing anything faster. They're giving you a little defensive boost while trading off a lot of offensive boost. Yes, I know how expensive the Rom Arrays are...but the [Dmg] mod instead of either a second [Acc] or [CrtH] - just isn't going to help you kill faster.

    Okay, too much blah, blah, blah. Here's what I would do with a Tac in a Fleet Defiant looking to use Plasma. BTW, don't forget the disclaimer - ignore what I'm saying - I'm a total flake. There are some great PvPers here that will be able to help you with any build. Still... the VD Defiant...muahahahhaa:

    Fleet Defiant - Tac Captain

    Traits - Accurate, Elusive, Efficient Captain, Warp Theorist

    Passives
    New Rom - Precision, Sensor Targeting Assault, QSM(Active)
    Omega - Omega Weapon Training, Omega Graviton Amplifier

    TT1, FAW2, BO3, APO3
    TT1, THY2, APO1
    TS1

    EPtS1, DEM1
    HE1, TBR1

    BOFF Species - 3x Rom Tac, 2x Saurian

    DOFFs - SDO(BFI), EWO(Beam), SE(DEM), TBO(TBR)...er?

    Deflector - Omega Mk XII
    Engine - Omega Mk XII
    Shields - Elite Fleet Res/Adapt/etc

    Weapons
    Fore - Omega Torp, Experimental Beam Array, 2x Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2
    Aft - Hyper-Plasma Torp, Cutting Beam, Rom Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2

    Consoles
    Tac - 5x Plasma Infuser Mk XI - Mk XII if you've got more EC than you know what to do with it
    Eng - Tachyo, 0Point, Borg
    Sci - 2x Rom Flow Mk XII [-Th][Pla]

    Devices - RMC, Eng Batt

    But yeah, like I said - I'd ignore this and check out the PvP ship build thread that's been stickied or just ask for more info from some of the folks that have already posted (the bootcamp thing, etc) or even check out OrganizedPvP (channel in game)...
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    All I can say is listen and learn from those who offer thier experience.

    And Learn Throttle Control and how it can help you position yourself fpr attack and defense in combat.
    Leonard Nimoy, Spock.....:(

    R.I.P
  • trueprom3theustrueprom3theus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Well thats a pve build alright. ;)

    As others have said welcome to STO pvp... yes it rewards some stuff... but that isn't the reason you will fall in love with it.

    If you are going to continue flying escorts in STO pvp you are going to have to play to your ships advantages.

    That would mean removing all the beams. :)

    As others have mentioned plasma weaponry is mostly terrible in PvP as everyone mostly has shields that have at least +20% resist to plasma.

    You are going to want to run cannons.... in a defiant a torpedo is ok... but you can't just dumb fire it like you can in PvE... you will have to bind your torp to its own key and fire it WHEN you see a good opportunity to hit a shield facing.

    There is some good starter threads here look around and get some ideas... Here is a basic good start build I would suggest... and honestly it will provide higher dps in STFS then what you where doing before most likely.

    You seem to have lots of rep done So I will assume you have some in game EC to drop on some new gear and possibly a few doffs... anyway try this out.

    Tac Team 1 - High Yield 2 - Rapid fire 2 - omega 3
    Tac Team 1 - Delta 1 - Rapid Fire 2
    High Yield 1

    Emergency Power to Engines 1 / or EPT Shields 1 - Emergency Power to Shields 2

    Transfer Shield strength 1 - hazards 2

    For Weapons....
    Buy OFF the exchange don't use rep or D to get junk fleet stuff its not great of pve.

    Buy what ever weapon type you like EXCEPT plasma... if you still plan to do lots of STFs get disruptors... as they still do very well in pve.
    For mods... go with [acc] or [crth]... any combo of the 2 is good. Some people will tell you [acc]x3 is best some will tell you [crth]x2... honestly grab whats cheap... Myself I run [acc] [crth]x2.

    3 Dual Heavy Cannons. 1 Quantum Torpedo (You want a high burst weapon to end people when a facing does drop... or when someone is working with very low shields on all sides that is when you launch)
    2 Turrets + the Kinetic Cutting beam in back

    For doffs....
    If you can afford it get 2 Attack pattern doffs. (they are purple conn doffs.) you only need 2 this will mean you will ALWAYS have an omega or delta up for more defense and dmg, turn ect.
    You will want 2 Damage Control Doffs... IF you want to run Emergency power to engines. this will allow you to keep your one copy of engines and your one copy of shields up 100%... if you don't want to use these doffs... just run 2 copies of EPTS
    as the last doff... put in Torpedo Doffs... 1 if you run dmg control... 3 if you don't.

    On your consoles... you are going to want to slot one Neutronium armour for sure... change as you see fit to make that happen. For your ship set... I would loose the romulan set... its fine for the pve setup you had of course... for pvp you are going to get shreded in that. If you can get the Maco shield... you then likely want to run the borg set engine and deflector for the extra hull heal. If you can't get a maco... get as good a Resilient shield as you can find. The fleet one if your fleet has access... or worst case buy a mk xii off the exchange.

    That should be a pretty solid defiant build for both pvp and pve.

    What Mr. Salieri said, it's very good advice! I'll add the link on his escort thread, which I'd say its the bible of any escort player:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=255864

    I would just note one thing: if you play mainly in a team with friends, ctrh mod is obviously better, especially when you have a debuffer like a sci in your team. If you fly as a lone wolf most of the time, acc mode is the king. Especially in chasing other escorts. Thing is that with less than 1 acc mod, you'll miss like crazy. Parsing logs, acc x3 is more efficient on non-debuffed escorts, you hit them more. If you aren't willing to spend lots of ec on acc x3, get what Husanak told you, acc with ctrhx2, then later on put your hands on some acc x3, just to have them and see the difference with regards on what I posted above.

    What I consider the most important thing when you fly an escort is key binding. Throttle on mouse wheel, get a naga 12 thumb key mouse if you can and start binding your eps, apa, gdf, etc. if I remember correctly, the link above has some binding info too. But what's most important, it has some abc flying lessons for an escort. You need to keep moving fast (forward and backward-again, read that thread i linked)and also keep you target in dhc arch. And lots of patience... You won't become a top gun overnight, but you definitely can in few months! Good luck!
    Hear! Sons of Kahless
    Hear! Daughters too.
    The blood of battle washes clean.
    The Warrior brave and true.
    We fight, we love, and then we kill...
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