just want to get some info maybe from a turk rp scort driver or anyone else with in depth pvp knowlege. is there a preferred damage type that scorts prefer on dhcs? i noticed that phased polarons have 2 seperate decent procs on em.... does it really make a difference what dmg type you choose?
No it doesnt make a difference what you choose so go nuts, BUT anything except plasma alone is fine. When I mean 'plasma alone' that means the weapon only does plasma damage which is not good in PvP b'cuz the majority of PvPers use ship gear, shields specifically, that have a fairly decent plasma energy type resistance. The only real exception is using plasma/disruptor hybrid weapons, where the main damage type is disruptor damage, while the extra proc it can give is the plasma DoT burn. That should answer your query.
Phaser: I still find them powerful after the nerf. Dropping subsystems even for a couple seconds could mean the target is dead in the water, has no shields or cant heal.
Disruptor: I dont see this as much. The proc is good, but there are better choices IMHO
Polaron: Works well in conjunction with other drains. I think of it more like a "spread out" phaser effect. You arent going to shut the system down completely, but anything on such low power barely does anything.
Antiproton: Good for crit builds or the Vet ships with their inherrant accuracy bonus. You can only get 1 accuracy mod which makes them miss more than other weapons.
Tetryon: Dropping shields is always nice.
Plasma: Dont use plasma because most of the shields people use will have a 20% resistance.
The most common I see are phaser, tetryon and polaron.
There are weapons out there with double procs. You sacrifice 1 of the three mods for another proc. I think phased-tetryon or just phaser or tetryon is the best for an escort. I like [acc]x2 [crth] on my single proc weapons.
Fleet AP's, the advanced, can come with damx3 and crit d. They have a built in 30% crit severity. This nets you 40% crit severity, on top of the innate 50%. Once you add skills and abilities, you can trigger an alpha easily over 100% crit severity. Plus, the damx3 feeds right into base damage. Crit damage is a percentage of base damage. Your crit damage will therefore increase. Plus, you strive to shoot only when in AccOverflow, where ALL your shots are hits. Your normal damage done increases.
excellent, thank you for the responses. while i am aware that success in pvp is more timing you re abilities and in the correct order, i still wanted to make the right decision to complement a tac BoP
As long as you don't rainbow it up its not hard to TRIBBLE up.
All weapons do equal dmg assuming same level and mods... plasma is the only iffy one due to extra shield resists for the borg.
Pretty much consider what your running on your bop skill wise and try to complement with procs.
If your build doesn't have a theme like energy drain, or shield stripping ect... you can't go wrong with phasers or disruptors.
The bop only really has 2 rear slots for turrets... 1 if you are running a KCB... so this isn't as big a deal as if you say run a standard escort style ship. One thing I like to do recently however is run the turrets as hybrid weapons.
So I would run say 4 regular Polaron DHC... and then load 2 Phased polaron turrets... same weapon type but the turrets would give you a pretty good proc rate on the phaser proc with little cost to your dps. (turrets don't do much anyway... so loosing a mod and a slight amount of base dmg, for a phaser / polaron proc might be worth it... on my klinks I think I have a few toons with disruptors and the pol disruptors in the back)
Just because this comes up fairly often, procs are the last thing you consider if you're building an Alpha BoP. And as that's the only reasonable BoP to build you really take one option. 40% crit severity.
What possible 2.5% proc could trump that? You get exactly ONE shot. So there's your chance. If the proc was "kill every fed in the continental U.S" well sure maybe.
Even USING DHC's in AccOverflow there's no proc that will outdamage that. Don't need to drain your power or knock systmes off line. You don't have any defense anyway. I already know you don't have Omega. Cause if you did....I wouldn't be shooting you. Don't really care about your shields. You don't have TT because if you did....... I wouldn't be shooting you. I don't need to debuff your resistances. You've got FOMM all over you. Because you don't have TT.
A Jemmy beating the living TAR out of someone with a phased lolaron build is in fact epic. It's also very very messed up. That tactic is part of how they achieve those huge crit strings.
BoP's simply achieve that AccOverflow state in a different manner. So these may be fantastic answers for 'scorts, and that IS what the OP asked for so no fault, I'm just saying...he needs BoP info.
Cheers all. And hey, where do these blue color effing cannons come from? I MUST HAVE!
Thanks again thissler, and yes I meant BoP dmg types. I dont go near anything but them, save for a raptor from time to time. And youre ever so subtle stressing of only picking the non moving targets at the right time has not been lost on me, employing this, I have seen a 35k on hull crit tonight in kerrat, using bo2 no less,.vaporized him.....only happened once so far but wow was it pretty :-)
Thanks again thissler, and yes I meant BoP dmg types. I dont go near anything but them, save for a raptor from time to time. And youre ever so subtle stressing of only picking the non moving targets at the right time has not been lost on me, employing this, I have seen a 35k on hull crit tonight in kerrat, using bo2 no less,.vaporized him.....only happened once so far but wow was it pretty :-)
It's all about the pretty. And keep in mind, it's proper that they should be watching over thier shoulder for you. You're improving the herd. And if you're distracting them from what they should be doing even when you're not actively attacking them, how can that be bad?
I know you love and probaly have played the alpha bop more then me (well perhaps) but I will still disagree with you... crtd is terrible bottom line. It barely increases the dmg of crits at all. Seriously its 20% of the CRITICAL dmg... meaning that if
1000 is the base
1500 is the crit (not assuming any skill points, or other bonuses)
with 40% CrtD that 1500 would in fact be 1700...
That is TERRIBLE considering you are giving up any proc and any other mods.
Yes Disruptor and Phaser are both better options. There is no such thing as a bad phaser proc... if it hits you are with out a shield while your getting alphaed... or with out and engine and any defense... or with out any aux heals. Even a weapon proc is ok for the confusion factor alone.
Sorry AP weapons have always been the worst option for any ship including 5s or I'm running kill builds.
I know you love and probaly have played the alpha bop more then me (well perhaps) but I will still disagree with you... crtd is terrible bottom line. It barely increases the dmg of crits at all. Seriously its 20% of the CRITICAL dmg... meaning that if
1000 is the base
1500 is the crit (not assuming any skill points, or other bonuses)
with 40% CrtD that 1500 would in fact be 1700...
That is TERRIBLE considering you are giving up any proc and any other mods.
Yes Disruptor and Phaser are both better options. There is no such thing as a bad phaser proc... if it hits you are with out a shield while your getting alphaed... or with out and engine and any defense... or with out any aux heals. Even a weapon proc is ok for the confusion factor alone.
Sorry AP weapons have always been the worst option for any ship including 5s or I'm running kill builds.
Since launch for the BOP. I'll Crit over 80k. I top out over 100% crit severity.
1000 base.
900 forseverity.
1900 total.
Crit D is straight up additive. If your base crit is 50% (that's the norm) adding ten percent on weps changes your crit severity to....60%.
AP has always been the best choice for spike damage in the game.
I hit something, it dies. Or it doesn't. It's ONE shot for crying out loud. And 4 torps.:D
See? One shot. Be serious now I have HOURS of video like that. Are you really considering telling me that tip tap tapping them and trying to debuff them with disruptors or holding out for a phaser proc is the way to go?
As far as the confusion factor, watch the video. I'll bet money most of those guys suffered a bit of that.
You're correct of course but he PM'd me and since he had this thread already going I directed here.
And 40%+ additional crit severity is how you get that facing, and a bunch of hull. So it does matter.
And no, AP's STILL wouldn't be the worst mistake. If so I spent a year using DHC's and CRF wasting my time not knowing all the ships blowing up just plain didn't know any better.
Its a good damage increase without increasing time.. If you even have a 10% crit rate and in your "perfect 100" shots in AccOverflow you have 10 crits. At 1000k base damage that gives us what 5000k in extra crit damage? Okay. On weps I could add.....2% Crit Hit. So....1k damage. If I add 10% to my severity I get the same net damage but with fewer crits. But I'm NOT adding that I'm adding 40% PLUS I'm adding to ALL my base damage. So I'm netting another 4000 in extra crit damage.
But some players are reporting gaining 20% Crit Hit from consoles and Boffs or Doffs! Is this true? If it is think about it. Generally, in a system with two variables dependant on the other, as the amount of ONE variable goes up does its value relative to the other variable go up or down?
And really hey there's a lot of procs that can have STUNNING effects on gameplay. In the timeframe for a BOP alpha of any type they just aren't relevant to play to.
GREAT stuff for escorts. Cruisers, Scis and the like.
Now watch the video and tell me how pretty I am when I blow things up.
20%+ crit is only achievable by using CrtHx3 weaponry for the extra 6%... and ya for an alpha strike bop I would think that would be the way to go frankly.
CrtD 40% isn' 40% extra dmg... its 20%
CrtD in every test I have ever run is a boost to the Critical portion of the dmg only.
Meaning 20% crtd... really makes your critical hit hit 10% harder in total.
I don't dispute the AP beam bank working great for overloads. I agree with the build you have its one of the best... likely the best option for the One shot overload that will never proc anyway.
However on a DHC alpha strike build where you plan to decloak and ratta tat with 4 DHC and a turret or 2.... then no AP is a terrible choice. The CrtD Does almost nothing for you... the mods are terrible... and Even on one volley of cannon fire 2.5% chance to proc is very high. I would say that if you where to run a 4 DHC alpha bop... on with phasers crthx3 and one with AP DHC with 40% crtd... you will score more kills with the phasers.
Once you start firing that many weapons the higher crit rate from the crths Will in fact start increasing your Burst... with the AP your crit chance will be around 14% if you max other items. That will run you around a 70% chance to land a crit (not accounting for tractors ect) in a 2 volley pop.... with crthx3 your chancers go up to close to 90%... as far as landing multiple crits.... there is no contest... at 14% its still a nice healthy 40% or so... but with the 20% CrtH weapons you start hitting 60% chance numbers on multiple crits.
As far as the weapon proc... on a 2 volley tap from a 4 dhc 2 turret setup... you are looking at a 26% chance to proc in there... if that proc lands in the first round of fire (15% chance) the chances of ending your target are quite high.
Now having said all that...
Running the AP overload with the torps... is just a ton more fun. lol
I dunno, maybe try your tests again? Severity is a stat. Adds 10, 20, or 30 to critical severity. Your critical severity is 50. Now its 60. And that's how it works out when I measure my crits. Otherewise there would be no way I could hit the damage level I do.
So I don't know what to say about that.
And focus on the 100% Hit Rate. As the hit rate approaches 100% that's when crit rate starts to shine. That's when all the fun things start to happen. Not because you have 4 DHC's with High Crit H. We're no longer discussing 'if' we hit. We're no longer discussing 'if' we crit. We've moved straight on 'how much and how hard'. Once your in AccOverflow that's all your looking at.
And even using your numbers over the course of a hundred shots the output would be within a couple pts. Just make a spreadsheet and see. And don't forget to add in the increase to base damage as well. It isn't insignificant. At a hundred percent hit rate it's pretty chunky. A 'perfect hundred shots' mind you.
Okay let's just stop. Just take a deep breath and think. Would the Devs put a Mod in the game that had essentially zero value? Think about it. Would they take a Mod that was just such absolute garbage and then stuff such HUGE gobs of it into the premier PVP weapons? And then Keep adding it?
Forget what you think you know. Objectively answer that. What you're trying to say is that Crit H never goes bad in levels that are achievable in the game.
What makes more sense? That they can't do simple math and your right or that severity works the way I've stated and they really can do simple math? So if you're right you should be enraged and post every day that the devs not only put a stat with no value in the game, but that they insist on putting it on all the new items!:eek:
Speaking of that. You do realize that the way you are suggesting this works is not consistent with any of the other mods in the game? It isn't even consistent with the other items that add severity. Like the new consoles. Or even the old consoles. Go to sector space. Open the tab. Look at crit severity. Grab a console that changes severity by X. Take it on or off. Watch your tab value change by X.
And let's talk about sample size for a bit. Lets stick to the perfect world. I know that a 1% crit rate doesn't mean that one shot out of a hundred will be a crit. If we try to hash this out based on the huge variances you could expect in small samples (say a burst) we won't be happy. Lets stick to hypothetically HUGE HUGE test sizes and then just take a small perfect sample. This is valid. We know that in actual play we may see only a few crits, or we may see many of them, that's the fun factor of crit play I guess.
You two are really confusing....thank god my tac toon is new and will take awhile to get the 200k fleet creds she needs to unlock store (fleet policy) and start making lasting decisions.
though for now, for kerrat and the lack of antipro dhcs on the exchange, i need a suggestion....i did pick up a purple xi crit d dual beam disruptor (thats what netted the 35k crit and the poofy cloud of a fed) im still not using torps as this will require a respec as i put nothing in torp specialization....(the last box for crits i believe)
BTW i meant to ask, what is it about the fleet norgh that compelled you to choose and fly that over the fleet ho sus?
Okay let's just stop. Just take a deep breath and think. Would the Devs put a Mod in the game that had essentially zero value? Think about it. Would they take a Mod that was just such absolute garbage and then stuff such HUGE gobs of it into the premier PVP weapons? And then Keep adding it?
Not just one mod that is pointless... but in fact 2... DMG and CrtD.
I am not saying that your ship stats don't say 20% more when you look at your little ship screen... I am saying get a parser and look at the amount of dmg added by comparing 2 weapons that have zero difference accept one mod... find a cheap dmgx2 crth and a dmgx2 crtd dhc and fire it at something then go look at the numbers... CrtD will do 10% more dmg on Crit hits only... if the Crth hits 1000 on a crit the crtD will hit 1100... thats it that's all... its a bump in dmg for sure... but no its not that great. As for ACC overflow the overflow numbers are really not that great either... but if thats what you want you should be running acc weapons shouldn't you ?
In any event... there is NO amount of CrtH that will not improve your DPS more then any of the other mods honestly... I'm not making this up. The diminishing returns point would be well north of 60% crit.
Cryptic has given us a system where we fire multiple weapons... well most of us not your one beam bop.
For your one beam bop... I am agreeing with you... CrtD is as good as any other option and likely the best option with the acception of ACC... frankly for what your doing I think ACC would still be the way to go to ensure some consistancy. (assuming ACC is even working with BOL anyway)
1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )
Is a simple probability formula.... it will simply tell you the chances of landing ONE crit in a round of fire.... seeing as we are talking about BURST dmg here lets reduce it down to the min number of shots you will get off in a burst....
A 4 DHC burst will get off around 2 rounds in an alpha... so 8 Rolls right.
With AP DHC (I'm not talking beam overloads here)... you will be running around a 14% crit rate with an added 20% dmg on each crit hit (that would be Crtdx2)... Any other weapon type with Crthx3... will be around 20% crit rate... Thats an 84% on the Crth 70% on the CrtD... to land at least one crit... which we both know won't kill anyone... the Math for multiple Crits in 8 rolls is more complicated but bottom line there ends up being around a 30% better chance of landing multiple crits on the CrtH.
So bottom line Crth WILL out dmg the CrtD weaponry by simply landing MORE crits... they will be 10% weaker but they will happen 20-30% more frequently... and YES in a single Alpha opening from a CANNON escort... the CrtH will score more kills.
and there is a great chance u wont crit on that bo3 and not deface that sheild......than thy3 is wasted? i am not doubting you re one hit loveliness thissler, im just curious how many times do you not make that one hit pop that we see in videos. what is the success rate of any given alpha run?
i only ask because a full buffed alpha is once every 4 minutes due to tac fleet. just want to get some percentages on success
You two are really confusing....thank god my tac toon is new and will take awhile to get the 200k fleet creds she needs to unlock store (fleet policy) and start making lasting decisions.
though for now, for kerrat and the lack of antipro dhcs on the exchange, i need a suggestion....i did pick up a purple xi crit d dual beam disruptor (thats what netted the 35k crit and the poofy cloud of a fed) im still not using torps as this will require a respec as i put nothing in torp specialization....(the last box for crits i believe)
BTW i meant to ask, what is it about the fleet norgh that compelled you to choose and fly that over the fleet ho sus?
If you are running a beam overload one shot setup like Thissler you probaly want to go with a beam with CrtD or Acc... or a mix of them... if you are planning to run a more traditional Multiple DHC build... then go with CrtH.
I would assume he choose the Norgh because it has 3 Lt Commanders... it used to be weak on hull but it got a buff recently and has around the same hull numbers as the brel. Its a great ship. It works well as a One shot wonder build like Thissler runs and it works well as a more standard Alpha Strike bop as well.
As for torps as long as you have points in the base Tier 2 skill your fine to use them... the spec tier 5 points are nice... and if you respec you might want 3-6 in there... but Even with out torps will work fine.
And I'm telling you no. You need to do more work on your parsing I guess. I don't know what to say there because....
I'm telling you the only way I can account for my numbers is by taking my crit severity at the stated values.
As I have values and equations derived from the game and that by taking them and applying them in a manner consistent with all the other things in the game they just so happen to match. And you don't. Well what would you suspect. That there's some magical ability that makes mine match? Or that the game is wrong and your parses are correct?
Or that you're missing something? Really be honest now.
And really even taking your crappy numbers as a sample. By the time you hit a crit rate of ten percent, your crit d would add the same amount of damage. See because if I add in that crappy 100 points to the PREVIOUS ten crits that I expect it nets a 1000 point gain. And gee wiz your putting us at 14% crit.
And thats why those mods aren't pointless. They're darn good.
We don't need the simple probability equation but thanks for sharing with those that may not have had one. All it means is sometimes we'll see crappy strings. Sometimes we'll see great strings. It still matters how much damage you do when you get around to doing damage. Can't avoid that.
"So bottom line Crth WILL out dmg the CrtD weaponry by simply landing MORE crits... they will be 10% weaker but they will happen 20-30% more frequently... "
No. That's not sound logic or math. Those figures don't even belong together. 6% crit rate will not net you 20 to 30 percent increase in crit rate. It will net you exactly 6%.
And you absolutely CANNOT make a relative determination of those values without a start point. Can't be done. Thats nonsense.
And I honestly don't know how you get your math. North of 60%? Really? Hello but the base crit severity in the game is 50%. Crit H on weapons ONLY comes in 2% chunks. ONLY. EVER. So you would say that moving from 42% crit rate from 40% crit rate as opposed to gaining 10% crit severity is sensical? So lets say....hmm...lets say crit damage is any number. Any positve number. As a guess what would you say is the greater value 40x*.10 or 2x? Start at one and work your way up. Thats how you ACTUALLY make your comparison. Not any other way.
http://www.stattrek.com/online-calculator/binomial.aspx play with that for a bit. May help. It may not. It's like your taking the HUGE chance to get one crit and saying oh wow look at this huge chance it's boss! But yah no.
Remember it wasn't to long ago that you were counting Crit H as adding the full value of a hit as opposed to the incremental value, so I'm hesistant to appreciate your grasp on this.
I see your specifically trying to push this to a small sample size once again, and I'm telling you no. Because I'm going to play for years. I'm going to shoot for years. And I'm going to shoot a lot.
I see your specifically trying to push this to a small sample size once again, and I'm telling you no. Because I'm going to play for years. I'm going to shoot for years. And I'm going to shoot a lot.
Cheers!:)
I do hope so. I won't argue the point any more with you we can agree to diagre on this one.. you use your CrtD single shot weapons... and I'll stick to the crth.
BTW I am talking about high rate for fire weapons only here DHC namely... and yes I run CRTHx3 and I have for a long time. My math is sound... anyone that has fought a Husanak escort knows the chances of another escort topping my in terms of DPS are pretty low... and mostly its because I choose CrtH instead of ACC for my cannons.
Your right long term large sample size... CrtD CrtH ACC they all start to look pretty much the same in terms of numbers... You been round enough to remember before Cryptic went and dmg boosted purples... and we used to fly around with white and green weapons just cause. lol
i have a fleet photon, it had 1 crtD mod. its gotten several 20K+ crits, 27k is the record so far. i have a set of crtD3 mkXI DHCs sitting in the bank, been meaning to give them another look. my current acc/crtH guns pretty regularly give me 6k crits, wonder how the crtD3 guns will do
I do hope so. I won't argue the point any more with you we can agree to diagre on this one.. you use your CrtD single shot weapons... and I'll stick to the crth.
BTW I am talking about high rate for fire weapons only here DHC namely... and yes I run CRTHx3 and I have for a long time. My math is sound... anyone that has fought a Husanak escort knows the chances of another escort topping my in terms of DPS are pretty low... and mostly its because I choose CrtH instead of ACC for my cannons.
Your right long term large sample size... CrtD CrtH ACC they all start to look pretty much the same in terms of numbers... You been round enough to remember before Cryptic went and dmg boosted purples... and we used to fly around with white and green weapons just cause. lol
Actually your DPS drops when dropping Acc modifiers unless/except the situation where your target bonus defense drops rapidly. in those scenarios CrtH/D values will increase but overall Acc x3 (Unless you have all perma stun abilities on your escort? Room for that?) does highest 'DEE PEE ES' or 'Damage per second' in an average match.
So without the complicated numbers its pretty much 80+% bonus defense on any moving target with some decent traits and a spec, and acc x3 will be king. Dropping that will gain you more benefit using CrtH/D's and the lower your targets bonsu defense the more valuable/effective those mods will become.
This is very easily replicable in a controlled 1v1 with a 30 minute test run if you know how to do it.
Also don't forget that (At least according to my extensive testing) on a target with 80+% bonus defense, adding 10% acc to all your weapons will also increase your Critical Chance even more (1.5%+ on average i would say), not much but still something. Thats what people tend to forget.
I think I was one of the first guys to obtain a full Mk XI [acc]x3 (they were quite rare in the earlier days even) and I think that I woulve stepped back from using them by now after 2 years of escort flying if they werent a most favorable choice by now.
I can only think of a few builds that actually fully take advantage of those full CrtD/H weapons.
And about the 1v1's you were talking about, if an escort takes too much holds and stuff to actually bring that bonus defense down, he either doesnt have enough DPS (Chroniton mines) or Self heals (TSS, RSP, HE) to even finish the fight. Believe me.
And the last thing I wanted to mention, overall you might do a little bit more damage (spike with CrtD/H x3 in a specific time frame) overall in a 1v1 you want do enough sustained damage to keep those enemy shields buckling and once you get to do your awesome spike with your Crit weaps, the enemy still has all of his shield buffs available (RSP, TSS, etc) because the rest of the match you simply did ****ty dmg.
Your right MT... if all you do is choose to shoot at people with 80+ defense all day ACC weapons are much better for pure numbers.... Still not spike dmg though... CrtH will still provide more spike on those targets when there buffs are down... which is the only time anyone dies anyway.
My view of ACCx3 is they are the lazy players weapons. No offense... your good because you are not a lazy target selector... honestly I think you would be more deadly if you ran Crthx3... or Acc Crthx2.... over a few matches of parsing data sure the total amount of dmg off the accx3 might be higher... but I bet the matches with the CrtH cannons will be much shorter.
Really there are 5 targets on the field... WHY are people so intent on staying on the escort with omega and evasive up ? Granted almost everyone in a good premade will have there defense up nice and high at almost all times... but for those few precious seconds when someone gets nuked / and hit with a tractor or a VM ect.... The CrtH cannons will end them in a volley.... having said that some people are fans of CrtD in those situations as well... my math says any extra crit is the best way to go, but I think at the end of the day when someone is debuffed CrtH isn't likely a ton better then the CrtD. Still its what I have ran for a long time... and anyone I have convinced to try a set of CrtHs have not dropped them. I think we all pay to much attention to raw parser numbers... there is no way to really tell from the parser data When that dmg is occuring.... hmmm that makes me think... Perhaps I need to take a log file and feed it into a spread sheet... and just track the string data, find out how often I get strings of crits with the 3 different mods.... perhaps if I have the energy this week I'll take the time to do that.
Crit d does seem very sexy....in fact my newbie tac bop just bought a purple dbb with crt d for the bo. My dhcs are acc2 atm. Though I have achieved massive 30k crits, one completely one shotting a 100% stationary fedscort busy trying to kill a tank, I have only seen those crits twice in 2 days.....problem with crit d is that it hits hard but very infrequently, I dunno enlighten me
i use crit heavy weapons on kdf cruisers and vet ships, and i'd use it on other destroyer type ships that have more diverse setups. the common escort with a COM and LTC tac, theres not the room for anything fancy, just acc weapons and tac station based damage.
No it doesnt make a difference what you choose so go nuts, BUT anything except plasma alone is fine. When I mean 'plasma alone' that means the weapon only does plasma damage which is not good in PvP b'cuz the majority of PvPers use ship gear, shields specifically, that have a fairly decent plasma energy type resistance. The only real exception is using plasma/disruptor hybrid weapons, where the main damage type is disruptor damage, while the extra proc it can give is the plasma DoT burn. That should answer your query.
Your welcome
Absolutely nothing wrong with plasma now, with the introduction and implementation of fleet shields plasma has become totally relevant.
Comments
Your welcome
Disruptor: I dont see this as much. The proc is good, but there are better choices IMHO
Polaron: Works well in conjunction with other drains. I think of it more like a "spread out" phaser effect. You arent going to shut the system down completely, but anything on such low power barely does anything.
Antiproton: Good for crit builds or the Vet ships with their inherrant accuracy bonus. You can only get 1 accuracy mod which makes them miss more than other weapons.
Tetryon: Dropping shields is always nice.
Plasma: Dont use plasma because most of the shields people use will have a 20% resistance.
The most common I see are phaser, tetryon and polaron.
There are weapons out there with double procs. You sacrifice 1 of the three mods for another proc. I think phased-tetryon or just phaser or tetryon is the best for an escort. I like [acc]x2 [crth] on my single proc weapons.
All weapons do equal dmg assuming same level and mods... plasma is the only iffy one due to extra shield resists for the borg.
Pretty much consider what your running on your bop skill wise and try to complement with procs.
If your build doesn't have a theme like energy drain, or shield stripping ect... you can't go wrong with phasers or disruptors.
The bop only really has 2 rear slots for turrets... 1 if you are running a KCB... so this isn't as big a deal as if you say run a standard escort style ship. One thing I like to do recently however is run the turrets as hybrid weapons.
So I would run say 4 regular Polaron DHC... and then load 2 Phased polaron turrets... same weapon type but the turrets would give you a pretty good proc rate on the phaser proc with little cost to your dps. (turrets don't do much anyway... so loosing a mod and a slight amount of base dmg, for a phaser / polaron proc might be worth it... on my klinks I think I have a few toons with disruptors and the pol disruptors in the back)
What possible 2.5% proc could trump that? You get exactly ONE shot. So there's your chance. If the proc was "kill every fed in the continental U.S" well sure maybe.
Even USING DHC's in AccOverflow there's no proc that will outdamage that. Don't need to drain your power or knock systmes off line. You don't have any defense anyway. I already know you don't have Omega. Cause if you did....I wouldn't be shooting you. Don't really care about your shields. You don't have TT because if you did....... I wouldn't be shooting you. I don't need to debuff your resistances. You've got FOMM all over you. Because you don't have TT.
A Jemmy beating the living TAR out of someone with a phased lolaron build is in fact epic. It's also very very messed up. That tactic is part of how they achieve those huge crit strings.
BoP's simply achieve that AccOverflow state in a different manner. So these may be fantastic answers for 'scorts, and that IS what the OP asked for so no fault, I'm just saying...he needs BoP info.
Cheers all. And hey, where do these blue color effing cannons come from? I MUST HAVE!
It's all about the pretty. And keep in mind, it's proper that they should be watching over thier shoulder for you. You're improving the herd. And if you're distracting them from what they should be doing even when you're not actively attacking them, how can that be bad?
Cheers and glad you're seeing some success!
1000 is the base
1500 is the crit (not assuming any skill points, or other bonuses)
with 40% CrtD that 1500 would in fact be 1700...
That is TERRIBLE considering you are giving up any proc and any other mods.
Yes Disruptor and Phaser are both better options. There is no such thing as a bad phaser proc... if it hits you are with out a shield while your getting alphaed... or with out and engine and any defense... or with out any aux heals. Even a weapon proc is ok for the confusion factor alone.
Sorry AP weapons have always been the worst option for any ship including 5s or I'm running kill builds.
Since launch for the BOP. I'll Crit over 80k. I top out over 100% crit severity.
1000 base.
900 forseverity.
1900 total.
Crit D is straight up additive. If your base crit is 50% (that's the norm) adding ten percent on weps changes your crit severity to....60%.
AP has always been the best choice for spike damage in the game.
I hit something, it dies. Or it doesn't. It's ONE shot for crying out loud. And 4 torps.:D
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2NN_gbMYrUU3_dDgV8TxIjjV_qNBo8WS
See? One shot. Be serious now I have HOURS of video like that. Are you really considering telling me that tip tap tapping them and trying to debuff them with disruptors or holding out for a phaser proc is the way to go?
As far as the confusion factor, watch the video. I'll bet money most of those guys suffered a bit of that.
Cheers!
For a beam overload torp strike frankly it doesn't matter what weapon type you use... it either crits and gets a facing or it doesn't.
For DHC and I would assume that means hes planning 3-4 dhc... AP would be about the worst mistake he could make.
And 40%+ additional crit severity is how you get that facing, and a bunch of hull. So it does matter.
And no, AP's STILL wouldn't be the worst mistake. If so I spent a year using DHC's and CRF wasting my time not knowing all the ships blowing up just plain didn't know any better.
Its a good damage increase without increasing time.. If you even have a 10% crit rate and in your "perfect 100" shots in AccOverflow you have 10 crits. At 1000k base damage that gives us what 5000k in extra crit damage? Okay. On weps I could add.....2% Crit Hit. So....1k damage. If I add 10% to my severity I get the same net damage but with fewer crits. But I'm NOT adding that I'm adding 40% PLUS I'm adding to ALL my base damage. So I'm netting another 4000 in extra crit damage.
But some players are reporting gaining 20% Crit Hit from consoles and Boffs or Doffs! Is this true? If it is think about it. Generally, in a system with two variables dependant on the other, as the amount of ONE variable goes up does its value relative to the other variable go up or down?
And really hey there's a lot of procs that can have STUNNING effects on gameplay. In the timeframe for a BOP alpha of any type they just aren't relevant to play to.
GREAT stuff for escorts. Cruisers, Scis and the like.
Now watch the video and tell me how pretty I am when I blow things up.
CrtD 40% isn' 40% extra dmg... its 20%
CrtD in every test I have ever run is a boost to the Critical portion of the dmg only.
Meaning 20% crtd... really makes your critical hit hit 10% harder in total.
I don't dispute the AP beam bank working great for overloads. I agree with the build you have its one of the best... likely the best option for the One shot overload that will never proc anyway.
However on a DHC alpha strike build where you plan to decloak and ratta tat with 4 DHC and a turret or 2.... then no AP is a terrible choice. The CrtD Does almost nothing for you... the mods are terrible... and Even on one volley of cannon fire 2.5% chance to proc is very high. I would say that if you where to run a 4 DHC alpha bop... on with phasers crthx3 and one with AP DHC with 40% crtd... you will score more kills with the phasers.
Once you start firing that many weapons the higher crit rate from the crths Will in fact start increasing your Burst... with the AP your crit chance will be around 14% if you max other items. That will run you around a 70% chance to land a crit (not accounting for tractors ect) in a 2 volley pop.... with crthx3 your chancers go up to close to 90%... as far as landing multiple crits.... there is no contest... at 14% its still a nice healthy 40% or so... but with the 20% CrtH weapons you start hitting 60% chance numbers on multiple crits.
As far as the weapon proc... on a 2 volley tap from a 4 dhc 2 turret setup... you are looking at a 26% chance to proc in there... if that proc lands in the first round of fire (15% chance) the chances of ending your target are quite high.
Now having said all that...
Running the AP overload with the torps... is just a ton more fun.
So I don't know what to say about that.
And focus on the 100% Hit Rate. As the hit rate approaches 100% that's when crit rate starts to shine. That's when all the fun things start to happen. Not because you have 4 DHC's with High Crit H. We're no longer discussing 'if' we hit. We're no longer discussing 'if' we crit. We've moved straight on 'how much and how hard'. Once your in AccOverflow that's all your looking at.
And even using your numbers over the course of a hundred shots the output would be within a couple pts. Just make a spreadsheet and see. And don't forget to add in the increase to base damage as well. It isn't insignificant. At a hundred percent hit rate it's pretty chunky. A 'perfect hundred shots' mind you.
Okay let's just stop. Just take a deep breath and think. Would the Devs put a Mod in the game that had essentially zero value? Think about it. Would they take a Mod that was just such absolute garbage and then stuff such HUGE gobs of it into the premier PVP weapons? And then Keep adding it?
Forget what you think you know. Objectively answer that. What you're trying to say is that Crit H never goes bad in levels that are achievable in the game.
What makes more sense? That they can't do simple math and your right or that severity works the way I've stated and they really can do simple math? So if you're right you should be enraged and post every day that the devs not only put a stat with no value in the game, but that they insist on putting it on all the new items!:eek:
Speaking of that. You do realize that the way you are suggesting this works is not consistent with any of the other mods in the game? It isn't even consistent with the other items that add severity. Like the new consoles. Or even the old consoles. Go to sector space. Open the tab. Look at crit severity. Grab a console that changes severity by X. Take it on or off. Watch your tab value change by X.
And let's talk about sample size for a bit. Lets stick to the perfect world. I know that a 1% crit rate doesn't mean that one shot out of a hundred will be a crit. If we try to hash this out based on the huge variances you could expect in small samples (say a burst) we won't be happy. Lets stick to hypothetically HUGE HUGE test sizes and then just take a small perfect sample. This is valid. We know that in actual play we may see only a few crits, or we may see many of them, that's the fun factor of crit play I guess.
LOL what a mess of a post! I need coffee.
Cheers!
though for now, for kerrat and the lack of antipro dhcs on the exchange, i need a suggestion....i did pick up a purple xi crit d dual beam disruptor (thats what netted the 35k crit and the poofy cloud of a fed) im still not using torps as this will require a respec as i put nothing in torp specialization....(the last box for crits i believe)
BTW i meant to ask, what is it about the fleet norgh that compelled you to choose and fly that over the fleet ho sus?
Not just one mod that is pointless... but in fact 2... DMG and CrtD.
I am not saying that your ship stats don't say 20% more when you look at your little ship screen... I am saying get a parser and look at the amount of dmg added by comparing 2 weapons that have zero difference accept one mod... find a cheap dmgx2 crth and a dmgx2 crtd dhc and fire it at something then go look at the numbers... CrtD will do 10% more dmg on Crit hits only... if the Crth hits 1000 on a crit the crtD will hit 1100... thats it that's all... its a bump in dmg for sure... but no its not that great. As for ACC overflow the overflow numbers are really not that great either... but if thats what you want you should be running acc weapons shouldn't you ?
In any event... there is NO amount of CrtH that will not improve your DPS more then any of the other mods honestly... I'm not making this up. The diminishing returns point would be well north of 60% crit.
Cryptic has given us a system where we fire multiple weapons... well most of us not your one beam bop.
For your one beam bop... I am agreeing with you... CrtD is as good as any other option and likely the best option with the acception of ACC... frankly for what your doing I think ACC would still be the way to go to ensure some consistancy. (assuming ACC is even working with BOL anyway)
1 - ( ( 1 - x ) ^ y )
Is a simple probability formula.... it will simply tell you the chances of landing ONE crit in a round of fire.... seeing as we are talking about BURST dmg here lets reduce it down to the min number of shots you will get off in a burst....
A 4 DHC burst will get off around 2 rounds in an alpha... so 8 Rolls right.
With AP DHC (I'm not talking beam overloads here)... you will be running around a 14% crit rate with an added 20% dmg on each crit hit (that would be Crtdx2)... Any other weapon type with Crthx3... will be around 20% crit rate... Thats an 84% on the Crth 70% on the CrtD... to land at least one crit... which we both know won't kill anyone... the Math for multiple Crits in 8 rolls is more complicated but bottom line there ends up being around a 30% better chance of landing multiple crits on the CrtH.
So bottom line Crth WILL out dmg the CrtD weaponry by simply landing MORE crits... they will be 10% weaker but they will happen 20-30% more frequently... and YES in a single Alpha opening from a CANNON escort... the CrtH will score more kills.
For the beam build ya stick with CrtD man.
i only ask because a full buffed alpha is once every 4 minutes due to tac fleet. just want to get some percentages on success
If you are running a beam overload one shot setup like Thissler you probaly want to go with a beam with CrtD or Acc... or a mix of them... if you are planning to run a more traditional Multiple DHC build... then go with CrtH.
I would assume he choose the Norgh because it has 3 Lt Commanders... it used to be weak on hull but it got a buff recently and has around the same hull numbers as the brel. Its a great ship. It works well as a One shot wonder build like Thissler runs and it works well as a more standard Alpha Strike bop as well.
As for torps as long as you have points in the base Tier 2 skill your fine to use them... the spec tier 5 points are nice... and if you respec you might want 3-6 in there... but Even with out torps will work fine.
If you own the lowbie version (1000c points) you can select it.
I'm telling you the only way I can account for my numbers is by taking my crit severity at the stated values.
As I have values and equations derived from the game and that by taking them and applying them in a manner consistent with all the other things in the game they just so happen to match. And you don't. Well what would you suspect. That there's some magical ability that makes mine match? Or that the game is wrong and your parses are correct?
Or that you're missing something? Really be honest now.
And really even taking your crappy numbers as a sample. By the time you hit a crit rate of ten percent, your crit d would add the same amount of damage. See because if I add in that crappy 100 points to the PREVIOUS ten crits that I expect it nets a 1000 point gain. And gee wiz your putting us at 14% crit.
And thats why those mods aren't pointless. They're darn good.
We don't need the simple probability equation but thanks for sharing with those that may not have had one. All it means is sometimes we'll see crappy strings. Sometimes we'll see great strings. It still matters how much damage you do when you get around to doing damage. Can't avoid that.
"So bottom line Crth WILL out dmg the CrtD weaponry by simply landing MORE crits... they will be 10% weaker but they will happen 20-30% more frequently... "
No. That's not sound logic or math. Those figures don't even belong together. 6% crit rate will not net you 20 to 30 percent increase in crit rate. It will net you exactly 6%.
And you absolutely CANNOT make a relative determination of those values without a start point. Can't be done. Thats nonsense.
And I honestly don't know how you get your math. North of 60%? Really? Hello but the base crit severity in the game is 50%. Crit H on weapons ONLY comes in 2% chunks. ONLY. EVER. So you would say that moving from 42% crit rate from 40% crit rate as opposed to gaining 10% crit severity is sensical? So lets say....hmm...lets say crit damage is any number. Any positve number. As a guess what would you say is the greater value 40x*.10 or 2x? Start at one and work your way up. Thats how you ACTUALLY make your comparison. Not any other way.
http://www.stattrek.com/online-calculator/binomial.aspx play with that for a bit. May help. It may not. It's like your taking the HUGE chance to get one crit and saying oh wow look at this huge chance it's boss! But yah no.
Remember it wasn't to long ago that you were counting Crit H as adding the full value of a hit as opposed to the incremental value, so I'm hesistant to appreciate your grasp on this.
I see your specifically trying to push this to a small sample size once again, and I'm telling you no. Because I'm going to play for years. I'm going to shoot for years. And I'm going to shoot a lot.
Cheers!:)
I do hope so.
BTW I am talking about high rate for fire weapons only here DHC namely... and yes I run CRTHx3 and I have for a long time. My math is sound... anyone that has fought a Husanak escort knows the chances of another escort topping my in terms of DPS are pretty low... and mostly its because I choose CrtH instead of ACC for my cannons.
Your right long term large sample size... CrtD CrtH ACC they all start to look pretty much the same in terms of numbers... You been round enough to remember before Cryptic went and dmg boosted purples... and we used to fly around with white and green weapons just cause.
Actually your DPS drops when dropping Acc modifiers unless/except the situation where your target bonus defense drops rapidly. in those scenarios CrtH/D values will increase but overall Acc x3 (Unless you have all perma stun abilities on your escort? Room for that?) does highest 'DEE PEE ES' or 'Damage per second' in an average match.
So without the complicated numbers its pretty much 80+% bonus defense on any moving target with some decent traits and a spec, and acc x3 will be king. Dropping that will gain you more benefit using CrtH/D's and the lower your targets bonsu defense the more valuable/effective those mods will become.
This is very easily replicable in a controlled 1v1 with a 30 minute test run if you know how to do it.
Also don't forget that (At least according to my extensive testing) on a target with 80+% bonus defense, adding 10% acc to all your weapons will also increase your Critical Chance even more (1.5%+ on average i would say), not much but still something. Thats what people tend to forget.
I think I was one of the first guys to obtain a full Mk XI [acc]x3 (they were quite rare in the earlier days even) and I think that I woulve stepped back from using them by now after 2 years of escort flying if they werent a most favorable choice by now.
I can only think of a few builds that actually fully take advantage of those full CrtD/H weapons.
And about the 1v1's you were talking about, if an escort takes too much holds and stuff to actually bring that bonus defense down, he either doesnt have enough DPS (Chroniton mines) or Self heals (TSS, RSP, HE) to even finish the fight. Believe me.
And the last thing I wanted to mention, overall you might do a little bit more damage (spike with CrtD/H x3 in a specific time frame) overall in a 1v1 you want do enough sustained damage to keep those enemy shields buckling and once you get to do your awesome spike with your Crit weaps, the enemy still has all of his shield buffs available (RSP, TSS, etc) because the rest of the match you simply did ****ty dmg.
My view of ACCx3 is they are the lazy players weapons.
Really there are 5 targets on the field... WHY are people so intent on staying on the escort with omega and evasive up ?
Absolutely nothing wrong with plasma now, with the introduction and implementation of fleet shields plasma has become totally relevant.
@s7ike
Turkish RP Heroes
except the plasma DoT triggers the borg set and embassy console proc
we are far from the day the fleet elite shields become even common. the stf shields are still massively more used