Just a thought I had for adding an interesting dynamic to PVP- but what if torps actually had HP like their trico/HYT Plasma cousins (although less ofc), but couldn't be targeted normally?
I mean by default it would add almost nothing and maybe wouldn't be worth the effort- but if torps could take environmental damage (gravwell, tykens, warp core explosions) that would set them off en route to their target, I think we might potentially have a pretty interesting setup.
What if, instead of just firing brace for impact and hoping that alpha doesn't wreck your day, you could instead fire Photonic Shockwave, and displace/set off that incoming quantum HYT3?
Suddenly options. But would these options enhance PVP, or make it more difficult/unbalanced?
It's a nice idea, but the main problem with torpedoes is not that they can't be shot down, it's that they are too weak against all the shield healing/redistribution.
Hrmmm, so as folks are asking for a buff for torpedoes... you're looking for a nerf to torpedoes?
edit: Still, it sounds logical...and since I tend to argue logical things - kind of have to give that point.
edit2: Course, that same logic would suggest a massive amount of friendly fire take place. Something that I wouldn't be opposed to in the least and something I've always hated about many MMOs. I cause an earthquake, I call down strikes of lightning, spray an area with bullets, toss a grenade, fire at will, eject warp plasma... and in every case - it knows not to damage my allies. Quirky.
Wait... you want to kick the already second hardest to use weapon in the nuts?
(first being Heavy Torps)
When said weapon is quite literally only being used by a very small set of the population effectively? (here's a hint anyone using HYT3 isn't doing it right in the first place either)
Wait... you want to kick the already second hardest to use weapon in the nuts?
(first being Heavy Torps)
When said weapon is quite literally only being used by a very small set of the population effectively? (here's a hint anyone using HYT3 isn't doing it right in the first place either)
Using HYT3 may be your opinion of "not doing it right", but when paired with APO III and BO III you can create a very powerful strike.
HY2s damage potential is not significantly lower than HY3, it consumes a much less important tactical station in the process. HY3 means you've lost CRF2, or APD2, or a second BO3.
Which with what you're doing, double stacked BO3s are the way to go. Just throw down a weapons battery between O3 strikes and you're good to go again.
HY1, while in theory is more efficient due to a stealth nerf to torpedo base accuracy some time ago, means it's much less reliable.
HY3 just isn't the way to do it, sadly. There's much better options in game.
Something else to consider with HY3, is while it gives you more torps, realistically speaking as it spreads the damage out over each torpedo, that means there is just that much more chance the the enemy will manage at least enough shield to stop a torp cold, leaving you with on average as long of a duration to land torps as you'd get with HY2. Leaving one torp out of the damage train.
Using HYT3 may be your opinion of "not doing it right", but when paired with APO III and BO III you can create a very powerful strike.
maybe for a bop, but CRF2 you will get more millage out of. THY2 will most likely deal all the damage you need.
if anything for torpedoes, they need to get rid of the base 75% kinetic resistance on shields, thats usually up around 86% in practice. they should share the standard resistance levels as energy weapons, with is usually at least 50%
torpedos dont need a nerd, they need a boost, i am a torpedo boat and i know what im talking about, even with 4 tac consoles with 4 transph (best for pvp) purple mk xii consoles and the khg/breen passive, you will only get like 1.5 dmg to the hull per torpedo, its like 700dps per sec with 3 purple torpedo doffs, transphasics are the best torpedo for pvp coz they do the sustained without having to rip the shields off of your enemie, but that's it, it wont work on someone with 2 or more hull heals, lets not talk about the other torpedo types coz they seem useless ( tested ) without a good tachyon beam or cpb ( up skills even with flow caps maxed ), and there is a lot of skills to take out our clusters, trics and plasma hy which is the best dmg we can get, there are the aceton assimilator too, a 40sec cooldown console that clears all targetable things within range, so i guess torpedos need a boost, not a nerf... but the idea of adding them some hp is nice, to torps and mines, at least the aceton assimilator wouldnt kill a cluster in 1 second, and people would start using more aoe skills to get rid of torps, that would be interesting on a premade match xP
anyway, your idea is good, give some hull to torpedos and mines, say like ... 500 to torps and 1000 to mines ? that wouldnt put tricos in a op place again because they are destroyed easely with a gw, repulsors or faw and people would start using other mine types too ...
otherwise give feds a mine clearing console with 40 secs cooldown too xP
Nobody, but NOBODY needs a nerd. I'm not sure you could even fit ONE MORE NERD in this thread. Please.
Leg Pulling will NOW COMMENCE!
Hello, my name is Thissler and I use HYT3. Effectively. If you're stacking 2 BO3's you're doing it wrong. If for some reason you need two overloads to get the job done I'd love to see your playstyle. Mostly because I'm sick of Three Stooges reruns and I really need a laugh.
No just kidding. I'm sure stacking overloads is valid if you haven't learned how to rob defense yet. Just practice or maybe check out some of the good threads on that subject.
Leg Pulling will NOW DESIST!
Okay SERIOUSLY though. I do applaud the OP's idea. You can't really fault the logic. They are just so hard to use as it is. But...if its a really good Alpha, you're attacker should be within 4-2km anyways. Is that close enough for shockwave? Honest I don't know the range, I just know the range of my Alpha. So if you can get the shockwave off in the one second you have, you're golden!
In other circumstances, I really don't know. But like I said there's no beating the logic behind your idea. And I'll even go this far. If it was JUST shockwave that could do it, I wouldn't really be opposed to it.
EDIT: I always LOL a bit when I read my posts over. "I wouldn't really be opposed to it." Like it matters! Oh I crack me up!!
>Goes "What if they can take environmental damage, but people can't target them with weapons/powers"
>5 people bust into thread complaining about how if you make normal torps targetable like high yield torps that the game will explode, not reading a single entry in the OP
Keep on shining, you really really dumb diamonds.
EDIT: also, if I 'wanted' a 'nerf' I would have used those words.
>Goes "What if they can take environmental damage, but people can't target them with weapons/powers"
>5 people bust into thread complaining about how if you make normal torps targetable like high yield torps that the game will explode, not reading a single entry in the OP
Keep on shining, you really really dumb diamonds.
EDIT: also, if I 'wanted' a 'nerf' I would have used those words.
And what part of your question would not be a nerf to an already for 99 percent of the pvp population (who are worlds beyond the pve base in terms of skill and execution) useless?
There is nothing interesting or unique about the kind of gameplay change you are proposing. It does nothing to enhance the balance of the game, and infact makes the already tenous at best link to balance non existent.
Why do you think no one actually uses Tricobalt torpedoes or plasma torps that has any Skill? It's because the very same aoes you propose, to pop non heavies, pop them and render their high burst capability completely useless and turns your given weapon slot and boff ability into gimp mode. Which means Beam Overload, and 4 DHCs becomes even more appealing which is the last thing we need in pvp.
Now if you had any brains at all you'd know this by now.
Less qq about getting your rear handed to you by HY3 (lol), and how about some more skill on your part being deployed instead?
Those very same AOEs are incredibly common in pvp, among the Skilled population (and the faceroll "I R PRESS SPACECEEEEE BAAAAAAAAR NAO" pve hero crowd), because of their incredibly useful and already in some cases incredibly powerful effects, when deployed properly.
theres 1 good thing about the space bar heroes, its so easy to reliably use torpedoes on them like was originally intended! ive wanted torps to be better for a long time, it should be ideal for every ship to have at least 1. so i finally started using them in spite of their usual ineffectiveness, and nothing is funner then watching them hit hull after i clear a path for them
you will like this one thissler, this bop user with 4 DHCs said my kdf cruiser was a bad ship and im a drag on every team im on
If the effect Torpedoes had on crew were actually meaningful to gameplay I think a whole lot more people would like this idea. Sadly, you can fly a fully effective ship (for all intents and purposes) with no crew.
So really it's true that your idea would honesly make your average use of high yields and spreads that much more ineffective, for very little gain.
And I think it's "crazy diamonds". I'm not sure of the metaphor you were reaching for there. Maybe "You're all like my old TV set, it's brightness TRIBBLE doesn't really do anything either."
You can use that if you like. I don't copyright stuff that I steal.
I guess that guy didn't know you very well did he? Hope you got to show him some attention! Really 4 DHC's on a BoP is a good tip that someone is unsure of some basics.
But more importantly, you have a very firm grasp of how to place yourself in AccOverflow and just start riding the crit chain. And that's just full of win right there.
I guess that guy didn't know you very well did he? Hope you got to show him some attention! Really 4 DHC's on a BoP is a good tip that someone is unsure of some basics.
But more importantly, you have a very firm grasp of how to place yourself in AccOverflow and just start riding the crit chain. And that's just full of win right there.
he even challenged me to a duel, he had the 4 tac console bird. i was in my kamarang, with only 1 bfi doff and EPtS1 to keep the shields up, and a useless in that situation VM and DEM3. as if i needed that to obliterate something that fragile.
being not ideal for dueling, and tanking till i got opportunities like in my ktinga, i think the end score was 11-15, i won of course. he even got to begin each battle with a decloak alpha too, something my kamarang build relies on to be effective too actually. with each battles being about 10 to 30 seconds long, him having RSP actually made him more tanky overall really.
before i got a chance to actually explain the nuance of why its not just a lol ship, and actually very good, he loged unfortunately. he had no idea who i was, or even knew about opvp, and i didn't get a chance to tell him.
even if my raw DPS is a bit behind an escort's, the fact that i can kill most ships with a single tractor alpha, and tank them nearly indefinitely till i get that perfect opportunity, i think makes it a very viable choice. i have quite a few 1v1 bug kills in that ktinga. unlike fragile bops and escorts, it needs no outside support as well. well, except that kamarang build i used at the time, its not to sturdy
umm, oh ya, buff torps, don't make them more destructible. well, shields need to not resist them so well, torps don't need to be doing more damage. except trics, they are proboly the worst damage dealing torps now.<--very on topic
the fact that i can kill most ships with a single tractor alpha,
See now, if YOU start saying stuff like that people are going to start to believe it works.
But you've done it with EWP as well.
And yes on topic. Buff torpedoes. Make the crew loss component meaningful!
I'd like to say, once again, that the more I peek into the relationships between the different components of this game, the original concept was very elegant.
See now, if YOU start saying stuff like that people are going to start to believe it works.
But you've done it with EWP as well.
And yes on topic. Buff torpedoes. Make the crew loss component meaningful!
I'd like to say, once again, that the more I peek into the relationships between the different components of this game, the original concept was very elegant.
i do enjoy taking multiple dismissed things, combining them all together, and making something lol effective out of it. the original/1.2 game truly was inspired, im not sure how that geko who was lead in designing of that could be the same geko that created the stats for so many loathsome ships we have to bear now.
well, assuming my target isn't getting healed faster then 1 person could ever deal damage to them, i can kill single targets very effectively with my tactics. but better builds that are not all DHCs fall on their face in an intense cross healing environment. it just becomes a constant stream of incoming HOTs vs DPS preasure, and 4 DHCs are what you need to bring there. unless you can act faster then a healer can react, but good luck with that. its team play that makes torpedoes lose all value, they can be used fairly well in pug play.
it isn't just timing, holds and crits that you kill with on a kdf cruiser, its DEM, 2+ flow cap console tet glider, and zone control with EWP as well. at least then your making it that much more likely that there wont be shields interfering with your torps, or defense scores preventing every hit from counting.
This is interesting, it would buff bad abilities like cannon spread and faw, but it would nerf the already bad torpedoes. If it came with a substantial torpedo buff I would be ok with it, since the torpedoes look like they should be targetable.
But then theres torpedo spread targeting torpedoes and every torpedo loses.
Comments
edit: Still, it sounds logical...and since I tend to argue logical things - kind of have to give that point.
edit2: Course, that same logic would suggest a massive amount of friendly fire take place. Something that I wouldn't be opposed to in the least and something I've always hated about many MMOs. I cause an earthquake, I call down strikes of lightning, spray an area with bullets, toss a grenade, fire at will, eject warp plasma... and in every case - it knows not to damage my allies. Quirky.
Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
kate-wintersbite.deviantart.com/art/0x01-Treachery-293641403
(first being Heavy Torps)
When said weapon is quite literally only being used by a very small set of the population effectively? (here's a hint anyone using HYT3 isn't doing it right in the first place either)
Using HYT3 may be your opinion of "not doing it right", but when paired with APO III and BO III you can create a very powerful strike.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Which with what you're doing, double stacked BO3s are the way to go. Just throw down a weapons battery between O3 strikes and you're good to go again.
HY1, while in theory is more efficient due to a stealth nerf to torpedo base accuracy some time ago, means it's much less reliable.
HY3 just isn't the way to do it, sadly. There's much better options in game.
Something else to consider with HY3, is while it gives you more torps, realistically speaking as it spreads the damage out over each torpedo, that means there is just that much more chance the the enemy will manage at least enough shield to stop a torp cold, leaving you with on average as long of a duration to land torps as you'd get with HY2. Leaving one torp out of the damage train.
maybe for a bop, but CRF2 you will get more millage out of. THY2 will most likely deal all the damage you need.
if anything for torpedoes, they need to get rid of the base 75% kinetic resistance on shields, thats usually up around 86% in practice. they should share the standard resistance levels as energy weapons, with is usually at least 50%
anyway, your idea is good, give some hull to torpedos and mines, say like ... 500 to torps and 1000 to mines ? that wouldnt put tricos in a op place again because they are destroyed easely with a gw, repulsors or faw and people would start using other mine types too ...
otherwise give feds a mine clearing console with 40 secs cooldown too xP
Nobody, but NOBODY needs a nerd. I'm not sure you could even fit ONE MORE NERD in this thread. Please.
Leg Pulling will NOW COMMENCE!
Hello, my name is Thissler and I use HYT3. Effectively. If you're stacking 2 BO3's you're doing it wrong. If for some reason you need two overloads to get the job done I'd love to see your playstyle. Mostly because I'm sick of Three Stooges reruns and I really need a laugh.
No just kidding. I'm sure stacking overloads is valid if you haven't learned how to rob defense yet. Just practice or maybe check out some of the good threads on that subject.
Leg Pulling will NOW DESIST!
Okay SERIOUSLY though. I do applaud the OP's idea. You can't really fault the logic. They are just so hard to use as it is. But...if its a really good Alpha, you're attacker should be within 4-2km anyways. Is that close enough for shockwave? Honest I don't know the range, I just know the range of my Alpha. So if you can get the shockwave off in the one second you have, you're golden!
In other circumstances, I really don't know. But like I said there's no beating the logic behind your idea. And I'll even go this far. If it was JUST shockwave that could do it, I wouldn't really be opposed to it.
EDIT: I always LOL a bit when I read my posts over. "I wouldn't really be opposed to it." Like it matters! Oh I crack me up!!
>5 people bust into thread complaining about how if you make normal torps targetable like high yield torps that the game will explode, not reading a single entry in the OP
Keep on shining, you really really dumb diamonds.
EDIT: also, if I 'wanted' a 'nerf' I would have used those words.
And what part of your question would not be a nerf to an already for 99 percent of the pvp population (who are worlds beyond the pve base in terms of skill and execution) useless?
There is nothing interesting or unique about the kind of gameplay change you are proposing. It does nothing to enhance the balance of the game, and infact makes the already tenous at best link to balance non existent.
Why do you think no one actually uses Tricobalt torpedoes or plasma torps that has any Skill? It's because the very same aoes you propose, to pop non heavies, pop them and render their high burst capability completely useless and turns your given weapon slot and boff ability into gimp mode. Which means Beam Overload, and 4 DHCs becomes even more appealing which is the last thing we need in pvp.
Now if you had any brains at all you'd know this by now.
Less qq about getting your rear handed to you by HY3 (lol), and how about some more skill on your part being deployed instead?
Those very same AOEs are incredibly common in pvp, among the Skilled population (and the faceroll "I R PRESS SPACECEEEEE BAAAAAAAAR NAO" pve hero crowd), because of their incredibly useful and already in some cases incredibly powerful effects, when deployed properly.
you will like this one thissler, this bop user with 4 DHCs said my kdf cruiser was a bad ship and im a drag on every team im on
First, I like your avatar.
Second, I still admire your logic. Can I go on?
If the effect Torpedoes had on crew were actually meaningful to gameplay I think a whole lot more people would like this idea. Sadly, you can fly a fully effective ship (for all intents and purposes) with no crew.
So really it's true that your idea would honesly make your average use of high yields and spreads that much more ineffective, for very little gain.
And I think it's "crazy diamonds". I'm not sure of the metaphor you were reaching for there. Maybe "You're all like my old TV set, it's brightness TRIBBLE doesn't really do anything either."
You can use that if you like. I don't copyright stuff that I steal.
But more importantly, you have a very firm grasp of how to place yourself in AccOverflow and just start riding the crit chain. And that's just full of win right there.
he even challenged me to a duel, he had the 4 tac console bird. i was in my kamarang, with only 1 bfi doff and EPtS1 to keep the shields up, and a useless in that situation VM and DEM3. as if i needed that to obliterate something that fragile.
being not ideal for dueling, and tanking till i got opportunities like in my ktinga, i think the end score was 11-15, i won of course. he even got to begin each battle with a decloak alpha too, something my kamarang build relies on to be effective too actually. with each battles being about 10 to 30 seconds long, him having RSP actually made him more tanky overall really.
before i got a chance to actually explain the nuance of why its not just a lol ship, and actually very good, he loged unfortunately. he had no idea who i was, or even knew about opvp, and i didn't get a chance to tell him.
even if my raw DPS is a bit behind an escort's, the fact that i can kill most ships with a single tractor alpha, and tank them nearly indefinitely till i get that perfect opportunity, i think makes it a very viable choice. i have quite a few 1v1 bug kills in that ktinga. unlike fragile bops and escorts, it needs no outside support as well. well, except that kamarang build i used at the time, its not to sturdy
umm, oh ya, buff torps, don't make them more destructible. well, shields need to not resist them so well, torps don't need to be doing more damage. except trics, they are proboly the worst damage dealing torps now.<--very on topic
See now, if YOU start saying stuff like that people are going to start to believe it works.
But you've done it with EWP as well.
And yes on topic. Buff torpedoes. Make the crew loss component meaningful!
I'd like to say, once again, that the more I peek into the relationships between the different components of this game, the original concept was very elegant.
i do enjoy taking multiple dismissed things, combining them all together, and making something lol effective out of it. the original/1.2 game truly was inspired, im not sure how that geko who was lead in designing of that could be the same geko that created the stats for so many loathsome ships we have to bear now.
well, assuming my target isn't getting healed faster then 1 person could ever deal damage to them, i can kill single targets very effectively with my tactics. but better builds that are not all DHCs fall on their face in an intense cross healing environment. it just becomes a constant stream of incoming HOTs vs DPS preasure, and 4 DHCs are what you need to bring there. unless you can act faster then a healer can react, but good luck with that. its team play that makes torpedoes lose all value, they can be used fairly well in pug play.
it isn't just timing, holds and crits that you kill with on a kdf cruiser, its DEM, 2+ flow cap console tet glider, and zone control with EWP as well. at least then your making it that much more likely that there wont be shields interfering with your torps, or defense scores preventing every hit from counting.
But then theres torpedo spread targeting torpedoes and every torpedo loses.
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