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Fleet Ambassador/ Kamarag (hahaha!)

maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited February 2013 in PvP Gameplay
5 fleet ship modules? i thought the going rate for fleet ships was only 4?

http://sto.perfectworld.com/blog/?p=817881

the fleet versions of the ambasador and klingon free ship.

-_-


EDIT- it seems it was an error, its only 4 modules.
mancom wrote: »
Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
Do you even Science Bro?
Post edited by maicake716 on
«13

Comments

  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I probably would have bought the Ambassador as an account unlock because I really like the look of the ship. But I won't pay 25 bucks for a per-character thing. Same reason I never got that T5 K'tinga I really wanted to play.

    It's really sad, but in retrospect the great content drought of 2011 was much much better than what we have these days.
    1042856
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    5 fleet ship modules? i thought the going rate for fleet ships was only 4?

    http://sto.perfectworld.com/blog/?p=817881

    the fleet versions of the ambasador and klingon free ship.

    -_-

    That's pretty odd, I could see where they were going if they gave these ships some kind of innate special ability (such as Gal-X phaser lance/Guramba javelin, etc.).

    Otherwise I don't understand why these are priced for 5 modules in comparison to other Fleet ships (from a mechanics/power standpoint - it's pretty clear this is marketing trying to strike while the iron is hot).
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Have to wonder if they're trying to make up for giving both the T3/T5 away for free with that extra FM...

    Typical +hull/+shield.
    The missing 3rd Sci console.
    Lt Eng a Lt Uni.

    Could see folks buying it for 4FMs... heck, the Ambassador lovefest crowd would probably buy it for 6FMs.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    That's pretty odd, I could see where they were going if they gave these ships some kind of innate special ability (such as Gal-X phaser lance/Guramba javelin, etc.).

    Otherwise I don't understand why these are priced for 5 modules in comparison to other Fleet ships (from a mechanics/power standpoint - it's pretty clear this is marketing trying to strike while the iron is hot).

    whats even funnier is that it seems to nhave a higher hull then the oddy, and a much better bo layout then the galaxy.

    talk about ablast from the past.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    whats even funnier is that it seems to nhave a higher hull then the oddy, and a much better bo layout then the galaxy.

    talk about ablast from the past.

    It is kind of funny looking at the Fleet Ambassador vs. Fleet Galaxy... well, not to folks that like the Galaxy - but it is kind of funny to everybody else.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    whats even funnier is that it seems to nhave a higher hull then the oddy, and a much better bo layout then the galaxy.

    talk about ablast from the past.


    I didn't even catch that on hull, 43,450 and listed turn rate of 7 (that feels like 8)? :rolleyes:
  • aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    mancom wrote: »
    It's really sad, but in retrospect the great content drought of 2011 was much much better than what we have these days.

    As much as I loathe our money-grabbing overlords, I wouldn't agree there.

    We all knew fleet variants were in the works, I just don't think anyone expected them to pop out as soon as the original disappeared.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    mancom wrote: »
    I probably would have bought the Ambassador as an account unlock because I really like the look of the ship. But I won't pay 25 bucks for a per-character thing. Same reason I never got that T5 K'tinga I really wanted to play.

    It's really sad, but in retrospect the great content drought of 2011 was much much better than what we have these days.

    the fleet ships, i just pretend they are ships that cost between 15-20 mil EC, thats not too terrible for a ship around lockbox ship level.


    its kinda funny, the c store ody seems more like a +.9 ship now. this ship is proboly 5 mods because so far they haven't made a dime off of the model and all the work put into it. plus they made slightly different models for this version too. the 5th mod is a tax, because theres no normal c store version that has recouped the costs of making the ships yet.

    that universal LT s a false choice, make the ens universal too and they would be on to something. it could out do the ody as a heal boat then, or have 2 LT tacs
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    that universal LT s a false choice, make the ens universal too and they would be on to something. it could out do the ody as a heal boat then, or have 2 LT tacs

    Base...

    X, X
    X

    X, X, X, X
    X, X, X
    X, X

    So...Tac:

    X, X
    X, X
    X

    X, X, X, X
    X, X, X

    So...Sci:

    X, X
    X

    X, X, X, X
    X, X, X
    X, X



    So...Eng:

    X, X
    X

    X, X, X, X
    X, X

    X, X, X

    But what you would have preferred?

    X, X
    X, X

    X, X, X, X
    X

    X, X, X

    ...or...

    X, X
    X, X

    X, X, X, X
    X, X, X
    X
  • borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    edited February 2013
    I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8013891&postcount=56

    Totally my bad.

    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8013891&postcount=56

    Totally my bad.

    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?

    It's what Galaxy should have been. I like the layout. But out of spite, wont purchase it.

    It has rather high hull hps for its turn rate though. I mean 550 hps for +1 turn ? :/
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • djconcentusdjconcentus Member Posts: 177 Media Corps
    edited February 2013
    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?

    Now that the price issue is resolved, I'll definitely be moving from my science odyssey to this. More HP, better turn rate, and more consoles to work with (since I won't be running the oddy set anymore). I just need to get 3 more FSMs.

    Not thrilled that its a per-character ship, but since I've only got one toon that I fly as a tank I'll stomach it for a change.
    The opinions expressed in my posts are not necessarily those of my employer or Subspace Radio.
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  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8013891&postcount=56

    Totally my bad.

    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?

    When all we can complain about is the price, that probably means the ship is in our collective eyes "balanced".

    Although, the major issue now is that there is absolutely no reason to ever take a fleet galaxy class. It's just that bad.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • captainbmoneycaptainbmoney Member Posts: 1,323 Arc User
    edited February 2013

    X, X
    X, X

    X, X, X, X
    X

    X, X, X

    I want a carrier with those slots. Preferably the Breen Carrier :)

    Like my fanpage!
    https://www.facebook.com/CaptainBMoney913
    Join Date: August 29th 2010
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    just a commander eng on a cruiser is a bad fit, you cant cover your EPtS without using a more valuable station slot, even if you use damage control doffs because you need 2 slots still for 2 different EPtX skills. a universal ensign can at least put you on even footing with the ody.


    also, check the dev tracker, bran did a copy paste fail, again, they cost 4 mods not 5 thankfully.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8013891&postcount=56

    Totally my bad.

    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?

    Even if it was 5 I wouldn't mind since it has a layout and turning power I wanted to have on bortasqu' so either way its a great ship for the KDF.
  • ask4kirk1701ask4kirk1701 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    It's what Galaxy should have been. I like the layout. But out of spite, wont purchase it.

    It has rather high hull hps for its turn rate though. I mean 550 hps for +1 turn ? :/


    It's called "someone has Ferengi blood" when selling these ships to the STO community.
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8013891&postcount=56

    Totally my bad.

    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?

    Can I have the kamarag skin for my Chel Grett ? It's a much more functional ship for me even without the cloak.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    Can I have the kamarag skin for my Chel Grett ? It's a much more functional ship for me even without the cloak.

    Thats good idea ! Can i have Galaxy skin for the ambassador ?
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • mancommancom Member Posts: 784 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?
    Why are you even asking? You will not alter the BO seating at this point, nor significantly adjust the hull/shields, at least not downwards.
    1042856
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8013891&postcount=56

    Totally my bad.

    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?

    as with the RA level free version, these ships are balanced as far as fleet level ships go. but like i said, the universal eng seems like a false choice to some degree, making the ENS universal too would give you some true flexibility.

    also i wish the kamarang had a LTC tac, a klingon battle cruiser that has stronger sci then tac doesn't make sense. the orian and gorn should have the more sci heavy ships, not the klingons. or maybe make another version of the fleet negvar having a LTC tac. a maneuverable kdf cruiser with ether the regent or excelsior station setup would be perfect, the fleet vorcha with the LTC and LT tac is too much, it cant quite serve the purpose i want it to, the fleet ktinga turns out to be a better ship because it can use AtB and tech doffs wile the fleet vorcha cant really.



    also, like i said in the official thread, this just makes things worse for the galaxy and fleet galaxy. the problem is the 3 ENS eng stations mainly, that is the opposite of ideal for tanking or healing. it serves no positive purpose, and the ships has no real beter then average stat, its got the worst turn stat in fact, so its additionally a burden. separating the saucer doesn't do much to make it more dangerous when its only got 2 tac consoles too. at least the defiant is quick turning with its slightly unideal station setup. and theres so many good sci skills at ensign the intrepid setup is favorable. thats simply not the case for the galaxy, nothing is worse then having 3 eng ENS.

    just release a second fleet galaxy then. they could release 'fleet varients' for other ships too

    current- 2 universal LTs, and ENS, consoles can stay the same. making the non eng stations universal does not take away from what it can already slot.

    war time variant- COM eng, LTC tac, LT eng, LT sci, ens uni. 4/2/4 consoles. do the same for the negvar too.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I'm surprised to see this crowd dwelling on the price instead of the specs. But even so, here's an update I just posted to the original announcement thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=8013891&postcount=56

    Totally my bad.

    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?


    Well, mai brought up the hull and I commented on it, but to be honest Bort I've all but given up hope that ships will have stats that follow some kind of logical balance.


    I made a pretty comprehensive comparison of things like Fleet Fed & KDF ships pre-S6 with no real input of feedback, so I assumed that everything was WAI.



    Here's what I don't understand, how does the systems team choose what Hull / Shield Mod / Turn rate a ship gets?


    Why does the Ambassador get a turn rate of 7, that feels like an 8 (probably because the model is small and the turn axis is good - another long unattended balance issue) get more hull than the Odyssey class which has a turn rate of 6?

    Why does it have more hull if it's so tiny?


    Why do some Fed cruisers continue to languish with terrible turn rates with no compensating point in return**, especially when compared to ships like the Fleet Ambassador and Fleet Excelsior which are not only smaller, with better turn rates and near-equivalent or equivalent shield mods but they also get better hull on top of it and are clearly out-dated technology?

    **(To be honest, outside of some mega-hull, there is nothing that compensates for the frustrating combat performance loss for a turn rate of 6 or worse usually).



    Here are the other threads I mentioned: 1, 2.



    Other than that, the ship is balanced and doesn't have any spammable items or consoles to worry about.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    just a commander eng on a cruiser is a bad fit, you cant cover your EPtS without using a more valuable station slot, even if you use damage control doffs because you need 2 slots still for 2 different EPtX skills. a universal ensign can at least put you on even footing with the ody.

    TT1, DPB1
    THY1, APD1
    TS1

    EPtS1, ET2, RSP2, AtS3
    PH1, HE2, TSS3

    ...is where I would have the K'maj, compared to the following with the Kamarag...

    TT1, THY2
    TS1

    EPtS1, AtD1, EWP1, AtS3
    ET1, RSP1

    PH1, HE2, TSS3

    ...which I went to after running this on the Mirror Vor'cha...

    TS1, THY1
    EPtS1, AtD1, EWP1, AtS3
    EPtS1, ET2, RSP2

    TSS1, HE2
    PH1


    Course, that's with an Eng using Torps/Mines (K'maj - just torps with Kamarag/Vor'cha).

    With what I'm looking at currently for the Ambassador on one of my toons...

    THY1, CSV1
    TT1

    EPtS1, RSP1, DEM2, AtS3
    EPtW1, AtD1

    ST1, HE2, TB3

    ...could go like the following with the Yamaguchi...

    THY1, CSV1
    TT1

    EPtS1, AtD1, DEM2, AtS3
    ST1, HE2, TB3
    PH1, TSS2
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Why does the Ambassador get a turn rate of 7, that feels like an 8 (probably because the model is small and the turn axis is good - another long unattended balance issue)...

    It picked up +10 Inertia on the Sovereign, so its 7 turns better than the Sov's 7. Its 7/40 will make the 6/20 of the Ody/Fleet Gal feel that much worse.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    It picked up +10 Inertia on the Sovereign, so its 7 turns better than the Sov's 7. Its 7/40 will make the 6/20 of the Ody/Fleet Gal feel that much worse.

    A curiosity btw. My fleet heavy retrofit cruiser has inertia like Galaxy, despite being like 4x smaller :D
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    the problem is, there is nothing within the system that favors size, size in every instance is a negative, wile the smaller the ship is the better it is. which is insane.


    all cruisers and escorts and sci ships have basically the same hitpoints, and the smaller they are the better they turn, with no actual bonus for being larger of any kind.

    bigger ships should have more consoles, more hitpoints by like 5k, even more bonus power, and more universal stations if they are going to be saddled with terrible turn rates. turn rates should be calculated based on ship volume, that should be calculable in the ship modeling program used to make the models. quite a few escorts are bigger then cruisers, yet turn far better and have far better inertia.


    turn rate is extreamly impotent for dealing with incoming fire, turning defensibly to protect shield facings is life saving. if you cant do that, you cant tank near as long, and you have to out heal incoming damage, something much more difficult and station power intensive then simply moving so a stronger facing is getting hit. most fed cruisers that die, die with 3 healthy shield facings
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    the problem is, there is nothing within the system that favors size

    T4 and Captain.

    Galaxy
    Defiant
    Intrepid

    Supposedly put on equal footing (silly to begin with, imho)...

    ...branching out from there - willynillyness ensues!

    The best part, I mean, the ultrafrickingbest part - was done recently.

    The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier.
    Can launch JHAS.

    Sure, sure - the Vo'Quv can launch B'rel BoPs - but who didn't picture them as the T1 B'Rel?

    There is no T1 Bug. There's just the Bug everybody knows - love or hate.

    The Dread Bug that can launch JHAS? The bridge should look like the cast for Expendables 2. It should have folks that never log, logging at first sight.

    That's not the case...heh...not in the least.

    Cryptic's squeezing a lot of ships into the current "gear level" - and well, they just don't logically fit it...
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Any feedback on the potential performance of this vessel?

    Well we're getting used to see more and more powerful ships release after release, and complaining about it seems pointless since nothing changes anyway.

    Performances? Well it's expected that people will use a Lt tac or sci in the universal boff slot. This cruiser already get 2 active space doff slots available due to the ensign + lt tac, so you don't need two conn officers to get your twi tac teams. They will use instead a warp core engineer to boost their power levels and 3 damage control engineers to spam EPTS 3. With a 2 parts romulan/omega set, this ship will have insane power levels, and of course, it will be almost unvulerable with a sci boff in the universal slot.

    I fear that

    Commander eng: Eng team 1, RPS 1, EPTS 3, Aux to sif III
    Lt tac: TT 1, APD 1
    Ensign tac: TT1
    Lt Universal: HE 1, HE II
    LtCmdr sci: TSS 1, polarize hull 1, TSS 3

    Will make it the ultimate tank with the doffs i mentionned. This ship can likely outclass any cruiser in game due to the lack of useful eng power abilities.

    You've just released an unkillable beast with this universal Lt slot combined to the two ensign tac slots available. Congrats! :P
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Now if PSW1 was something usable(worth a hill of beans)... This Kamarag with a romulan set would be nasty.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Now if PSW1 was something usable(worth a hill of beans)... This Kamarag with a romulan set would be nasty.

    Well, DOFF'd PSW1 to reduce the CD on Nadeon Trics...when Nadeon Trics could spread. Course, they still can - but the Friday notes for Tribble changed that, so it's likely it will be gone this Thursday. No more nerdgasms. :(
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