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Jem Heavy E

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
edited February 2013 in PvP Gameplay
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=JHEC_0

ok, so its still a pve ship, but im trying to make this work in pvp. a change i did end up making is aux2damp 1 x2 rsp 2. rsp 2 isent needed at all. thing is with aux2damp no difference except kinetic resist. i wish i could keep the extend shields on. but turn rate is badly needed on this ship.

for lack of tss2 im going with shield rep drones. all in all semi decent pve ship, far better then defiant but still not as good in pvp.
Post edited by [Deleted User] on

Comments

  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    this thing seems like a step farther then the fleet vorcha, but remains more of a battle cruiser then an escort. since it has basically cruiser stats, and enough eng stations, using it like a kdf cruiser seems the best bet, its certainly not an escort in the same vane as the defiant, saber or bug.
  • voxlagindvoxlagind Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I tried playing it like an escort, and it was terrible. The turn rate is just too low. I also tried playing it like an A2B cruiser, with a single cannon build and a dual heavy cannon build. While decently effective, it dealt less damage than a similarly built cruiser, and had much less survivability.

    While the ship can be a monster in PvE, I put it back on the bench for PvP.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    do you guys play it with 4 cannons? i find that terribly ineffective when pared with low on target up time ships that can use DHCs. you need to be able to tank,maneuver tank, and speed tank and save your buffs and a hold right for when your enemy is weakest. then strike with 3 cannons and ether a BO or torp salvo, making the most out of every APO and TT gap. thats how you use a kdf cruiser, you cannot dogfight in something that slow any other way.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    this thing seems like a step farther then the fleet vorcha, but remains more of a battle cruiser then an escort. since it has basically cruiser stats, and enough eng stations, using it like a kdf cruiser seems the best bet, its certainly not an escort in the same vane as the defiant, saber or bug.

    actually its much better, im even going to say might be on par with a bug and sorta more "tankey". im not going to go into details. i am a troll in opvp so people tend not to listen to what i have to say. im fine with that. at some point ill list on how to make this build very effective. but i wanna see if the more "better well known players" can figure it out and hope they dont hold back and list it.

    and hilbert please refrain from telling it. im sure as soon as you see the set up your light bulb will turn on. with this build i can do way more then the steam runner. sure i dont have the rapid fire 2 x2. it is kinda pre doff era. (even tho i have 2 apd, it still brings it to the pre doff era) this build micks omega 3 omega 1 rapid 2, 1 tt1 x2.

    with the 2 copies of aux 2 damp 1 i can chain them back to back with epts keeping turn rate up 24/7. now aux 2 damp says it will break holds and moment debuffs. so im not sure if its still buged and will not resist crono procs and tractors.

    * doffs and traits come into play. have fun figuring it out since i just gave everyone a huge clue. dont know why the "best players" dont see this right away. im temped to not even put this in


    4 dhc 3 turrents with same turn rate as a bug for less ec................
  • mustafatennickmustafatennick Member Posts: 868 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Th whole thing about being better than the fleet vorcha is debatable

    Au to dampeners is not bugged it isn't meant to break tractors it never was
    ----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Th whole thing about being better than the fleet vorcha is debatable

    we can debate that while your looking at the respwn timer :cool:
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    The skill planner still shows Extend with 1 Aux2Damp and you said that you have 2 APD which it doesn't show. Did you update it? Because that would help us solve the riddle.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    redricky wrote: »
    The skill planner still shows Extend with 1 Aux2Damp and you said that you have 2 APD which it doesn't show. Did you update it? Because that would help us solve the riddle.

    no sorry red, thats why i just did the detail on my first post and explained my set up



    so to be clear epts 1 x2 aux 2 damp 1 x2 rsp 2
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    in all the places i run 2 AtB, its extreamly tempting to run 2 AtD, with the great movement buff and resistance it offers. still, it cant beat the cooldown reduction power of AtB. APO at its global will add maneuverability nicely. on that ship it would free up the universal for 2 sci heals and a TB, all things that ship needs. with just the COM tac you can have at global APO, CRF, TT and ether a torp, beam or APD for the last slot.

    i don't think you have anything as spectacular as you think there
  • sylverwolfiesylverwolfie Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I enjoy flying the ship in PvP. I will say in many cases, the Klingon Vet-Ship is better (better turn, speed, and has cloak), but the J-HEC does hold it's own in PvP. I do fairly well in 1v1 with the ship - including doing fairly well vs the bug. The main reason I fly it vs the Klingon Vet-Ship is that the Vet-Ship is very ugly...

    If you want to see how well it can work, I can do a 1v1 with you...or see it in action in C&H or Arena..

    Mee@Adyreon
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    in all the places i run 2 AtB, its extreamly tempting to run 2 AtD, with the great movement buff and resistance it offers. still, it cant beat the cooldown reduction power of AtB. APO at its global will add maneuverability nicely. on that ship it would free up the universal for 2 sci heals and a TB, all things that ship needs. with just the COM tac you can have at global APO, CRF, TT and ether a torp, beam or APD for the last slot.

    i don't think you have anything as spectacular as you think there

    drunk sorry man but you are wrong. i have omega 3 on global as it is. i doubt im lacking much dps by using rapid 2 and 1. we all did that in the past. i have a turn rate of 57. i have full jem mk12. i will replace the sheild with maco mk12 when i hit t5.

    if i have a turn rate of 57. x right now what do you think maco would add to it? it would push me over the bug ship in terms of turn rate. no tss2? thats ok. i got sheild drones in recall mode to put me at 110 defense. let me see the bug ship do that. 48,751 hit points on hull.

    350 crew. yeah all you guys tryed to call me an rp'er for that. how much of an rp'er am i when i speced 6 points into sub rep with human bo for trait stacking with a space nurse to keep crew at 75%. not even taking into account for the trait/ passive techie. so hull regen rate anyone? so far this ship can do much better over all then a bug ship could. also we all see trasn torp builds so again, aux2damp wins here. ive been eating tric mines left and right and i surived that better then the bug players were.

    really i wanted to hold back this info. i really thought you guys would have looked at everything as a total. drunk you know i like you and massive respect to you. but really man you failed to look at the whole system as a total on this 1. i did as well. i made it a mission to put this ship together and make everything fit into place. so far im doing it as well as can be expected with this ship. it becomes easier when you look at the whole system. is it annoying to fly? yes very much. aux2damp works off of aux power. im using 2 purple mk11 rcs. so always swaping to aux power for that boost gets micro intensive. but it puts me at 57.5 i belive? or 57.3? something around that. but it is 57.x 2 purple mk12 rcs with maco shield will push me to the 60 turn rate mark.

    also to note, omega engines would probly be best for that turn rate as well. but being i can push my engines as far down as i can into aux actually boost it better. a bug ship can get to 58 turn rate or 59.3 with out use of aux2damp. but again aux2damp is a very good skill with 100% uptime. i had a team switch to vm due to this.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    broken1981 wrote: »
    350 crew. yeah all you guys tryed to call me an rp'er for that. how much of an rp'er am i when i speced 6 points into sub rep with human bo for trait stacking with a space nurse to keep crew at 75%. not even taking into account for the trait/ passive techie. so hull regen rate anyone? so far this ship can do much better over all then a bug ship could. also we all see trasn torp builds so again, aux2damp wins here. ive been eating tric mines left and right and i surived that better then the bug players were.

    Theta.

    I've discussed some of the most awesome Crew builds on the forums and even in OPvP. No matter how awesome they are...they're pointless because of Theta.

    Grab the Jem engines, 2 pc KHG/AMACO, Nurse/Medic, EFF, BFM, 5x Human BOFFs, grab Subsystem Repair, SIFs, etc, etc, etc...somebody drops Theta. It all becomes pointless.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Theta.

    I've discussed some of the most awesome Crew builds on the forums and even in OPvP. No matter how awesome they are...they're pointless because of Theta.

    Grab the Jem engines, 2 pc KHG/AMACO, Nurse/Medic, EFF, BFM, 5x Human BOFFs, grab Subsystem Repair, SIFs, etc, etc, etc...somebody drops Theta. It all becomes pointless.

    yes i know but i hope people dont do this. when it hits 0 crew will no longer regen
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    AtD can make that thing turn at 57? well thats insane, i though you could get 40 with it our of that ship at most. i heard its inertia score is bug like? so it would actually be able to use that turn rate without going flying right? and them recalling flight deck doffs, i've been looking at those as well for when i proboly get a jem heavy myself. i remember how insane the defense boost from those reportedly are.


    seriously though, 57 turn from just high aux AtD, that has to be bugged or something. that sort of changes things for how that ship can be used. been to long since i examined AtD's effect, always wanted to use it after you could get full up time on it, but tech doffs builds were always to tempting. i'll do more considering of it from now on with an effect that dramatic. could proboly do very interesting things on a vet ship with that in the mean time. gonna need AP doffs too though, jeeze, don't got enough EC to build all this.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Yeah, his build idea is really fun. I've been messing around with 2 auxdamps on different ships to get a feel for the skill. I like it.

    The only drawback is having to always keep track of the two abilities. If you execute them at the wrong time it'll TRIBBLE up the timing bad.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    seriously though, 57 turn from just high aux AtD, that has to be bugged or something.

    I didn't want to TRIBBLE with another toon's build, so I did a quick thing on my KDF Eng with a Kamarag.

    56/25 Eng Power & 61/50 Aux Power: 20.9 Turn
    +AtD1: 32.0 Turn

    121/100 Eng Power & 61/50 Aux Power: 25.9 Turn
    +AtD1: 37.0 Turn

    56/25 Eng Power & 106/100 Aux Power: 20.9 Turn
    +AtD1: 36.6 Turn

    76/50 Eng Power & 106/100 Aux Power: 22.5 Turn
    +AtD1: 38.1 Turn

    That first one, 56/25 & 61/50 is my baseline for the build. I've been running a single AtD1 on it.

    56/25 Eng Power & 61/50 Aux Power: 20.9 Turn
    +EPS Power: 23.4 Turn
    +AtD1: 37.8 Turn
    +EM: 60.1 Turn

    Hrmm, wonder what I could get that to with RMC.

    Meh, here's the curious results from another toon...

    33/25 Eng & 35/25 Aux: 6.5 Turn
    +AtD1: 8.8 Turn
    +APA: 8.8 Turn
    +APO1: 8.8 Turn
    +EM: 11.0 Turn

    AtD, APA, and APO do not stack.

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +AtD1: 10.9 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +Aux Batt: 8.0 Turn (contrary to the snippet, yeah, it's not going to do it)
    +AtD1: 12.7 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn
    +APA1: 17.9 Turn
    +APO1: 20.9 Turn

    Something seem off? Yeah, I'll get to that. First this:

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn
    +AtD1: 17.9 Turn

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn
    +APA: 17.9 Turn

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn
    +APO1: 17.9 Turn
    +AtD1: 21.3 Turn

    Wait, there it is again.

    So...certain things do not stack when used in a certain order. There appears to be a cap when things are done in a certain order, but if you go in another order - you go higher.

    Again, here:

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn
    +APO1: 17.9 Turn
    +AtD1: 21.3 Turn

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn
    +APO1: 17.9 Turn

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn
    +AtD1: 17.9 Turn

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +APO1: 11.4 Turn
    +AtD1: 11.4 Turn
    +EM1: 14.3 Turn

    108/100 Eng & 60/50 Aux: 8.0 Turn
    +EM1: 17.9 Turn
    +AtD1: 17.9 Turn
    +APO1: 20.8 Turn

    There's all sorts of fun things you can do depending on the order that you pop them.

    I mean, it stands out like a sore thumb:

    EM+AtD - no bonus from AtD.
    EM+APO - no bonus from APO.

    EM+AtD+APO/EM+APO+AtD
    Somehow you do get a bonus from AtD+APO after the EM, even though you get a bonus from neither if used alone with the EM. Not only that, but if you use AtD+APO by themselves - they do not provide an additional bonus. However, if you use them with EM - you'll get an additional bonus. Course, the order matters! EM+APO+AtD > EM+AtD+APO... just don't APO+AtD+EM (on this boat - 14.3 vs. 21.3 if you do the EM first).

    But yeah, sometimes it's just fun to take the Tac out in her Mirror Vo'quv - get some use out of her.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    snip

    /eyebrow

    Fascinating.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    AtD can make that thing turn at 57? well thats insane, i though you could get 40 with it our of that ship at most. i heard its inertia score is bug like? so it would actually be able to use that turn rate without going flying right? and them recalling flight deck doffs, i've been looking at those as well for when i proboly get a jem heavy myself. i remember how insane the defense boost from those reportedly are.


    seriously though, 57 turn from just high aux AtD, that has to be bugged or something. that sort of changes things for how that ship can be used. been to long since i examined AtD's effect, always wanted to use it after you could get full up time on it, but tech doffs builds were always to tempting. i'll do more considering of it from now on with an effect that dramatic. could proboly do very interesting things on a vet ship with that in the mean time. gonna need AP doffs too though, jeeze, don't got enough EC to build all this.

    inertia score is 60, my bug ship is at 70. im using full jem mk12 so i get to push all that sheild and engine power to aux. its just faster when i hit aux2damp for my aux to fill 125 faster.
    2 rcs mk11 purple. i did want to buy mk12 but wtf???????? from 6-7 mill to now 13mill +??????


    aux2damp is a good skill when u have teams running tric mines and pure bleed mines. also since i have 350 crew the nurse will work. techie and human bo will stack for really good hull regen. yes theta is still a problem. 0 crew in a sec. only way to fix that is get out of red alert fast. not really an option tho in premade v premade.


    to be honest as good as you can make this ship its very micro heavy. know when to put drones into recall mode, when to let them heal shields. (tested recall mode and shield drones wont rep shields. but i feel they rep sheilds way to fast)

    this ship can be more tankey comapired to a bug ship. just know more work is involved. but it is cheaper. i do like my bug alot more tho to be honest. i feel like i went from an automatic to a manual drive with the jem heavy. just the manual can go the extra distance. i mean freak, even in my bug ship ill hit my he at 45 aux. i hardly ever swap configs unless i really need to. for people used to swapping this should be no problem for them. most times i use aux2damp i dont really go full aux. only when i really need to get guns on point. but team setting this really is not a problem. so i am getting at around 50 something turn rate. thats doable.

    now i have one question. if i slot 1 doff for recall mode, i just every 2 secs from 80 d to 90 d. with 2 doffs it jumps every 2 secs from 90 d to 110 defense. what is the true value?

    my gut is telling me elusive is keeping me steady at 70 d and the doffs are messing with the defense system. some how its bugging it out. ei, my bug ship is at 70 defense because i was a huge nub at launch and did not care about my passive. now since i do care my new pure space tact has the passive, the system knows the jem is an escourt but low defense. hence the doffs are messing with the system and bugging it out.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Actually Sophler Durden made a thread about Recall doffs a few weeks ago. Bort even chimed in. I'm pretty pissed about the Orion hangars being unusable on the Jem HECC but I threw on some shield drones and they honestly aren't terrible. Not good enough to compete with Interceptors, but given the choice between **** dps, kite runner siphon pod shame, or a shield heal... Anyway, I grabbed 3 purple Recall FDO's last night and was flicking as high as 127 defense with no active abilities. Anecdotal evidence is unhelpful though because most matches were ****ty feds so I couldn't tell if it was them sucking or the FDO's working. And when I say ****ty, one CnH had 3 feds under 11k on the scoreboard. Then monkeys vaped me like a square jawed redshirt repeatedly, so IDK. I'm down to test this TRIBBLE if anybody wants to parse it.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    redricky wrote: »
    Actually Sophler Durden made a thread about Recall doffs a few weeks ago. Bort even chimed in. I'm pretty pissed about the Orion hangars being unusable on the Jem HECC but I threw on some shield drones and they honestly aren't terrible. Not good enough to compete with Interceptors, but given the choice between **** dps, kite runner siphon pod shame, or a shield heal... Anyway, I grabbed 3 purple Recall FDO's last night and was flicking as high as 127 defense with no active abilities. Anecdotal evidence is unhelpful though because most matches were ****ty feds so I couldn't tell if it was them sucking or the FDO's working. And when I say ****ty, one CnH had 3 feds under 11k on the scoreboard. Then monkeys vaped me like a square jawed redshirt repeatedly, so IDK. I'm down to test this TRIBBLE if anybody wants to parse it.

    thanks for that link red. now i understand about whats going on.
  • sgtciscoinsasgtciscoinsa Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Not to change the subject but could this AtD help the Dreadnought carrier? I just keep on exploding over and over.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Not to change the subject but could this AtD help the Dreadnought carrier? I just keep on exploding over and over.
    I don't have one, in fact I sold it to by the HEC, but starting with that turn and inertia there's only so much you can do.

    Also, I only got online for like 20 minutes last night but I did some TRIBBLE around and had my defense rating over 200. The glitched number was over 220 but that's only for a half second at a time and will be fixed per bort. Over 200 is not sustainable for any real length of time. I want to have somebody shoot me and parse it to see what this actually translates to in misses.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Not to change the subject but could this AtD help the Dreadnought carrier? I just keep on exploding over and over.

    sadly nothing can help that ship. just looking at the bo layout i doubt it even good for pve. its just put in lobi store to boost sales for consoles.
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    the dread is hopeless, cant even run 2 copies of AtD. both LT stations on the drea would need to be universal for it to even have a chance to set up good defensive basics, but it still wouldnt be able to do any supporting really. i did duel one a wile back and it had 2 shield drones, even it had un killable shields with them. it was only killable if its shield repair drones were killed first. those are actually extreamly good pets.

    i knew the jem heavy could be a good ship, you just cant copy paste a stranded escort build on it and expect it to work.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013

    i knew the jem heavy could be a good ship, you just cant copy paste a stranded escort build on it and expect it to work.

    yeah i agree with this.

    are shield drones op? they seem to rep them so fast you are forced to kill them then aim at the ship
  • thegrimcorsairthegrimcorsair Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    broken1981 wrote: »
    yeah i agree with this.

    are shield drones op? they seem to rep them so fast you are forced to kill them then aim at the ship

    They exist to make slotting an extra Scatter Volley more desirable than stacking non-stop CRF's like most pets. Probably not all that overpowered, I recall them being easily destroyed with a single non-tac buff'd CSV from my old RSV.

    Definitely not in the same league as Danubes or Siphon Drones.
    If you feel Keel'el's effect is well designed, please, for your own safety, be very careful around shallow pools of water.
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Without the 3 Z-store Orion pets it's either siphons or T5 scorps I think. Even Adv Skuls are still pretty lousy. I am soooooo pissed about that. Let me have a freakin cc pet option that isn't siphons. Shield drones can also be used to troll your team by telling them to follow cloaked ships. They blow up when you look at them but yeah, the heal is decent.
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
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