I was think about loading up DEMIII but other than that I don't know
In a tac captain and for now will be running the ambassador
Yes I know a tac should only use a defiant yadayadayada
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
You won't be bursting anyone away to death, but 5+ Beams at 125 Weapons Power can wear someone down. It's just a matter of working with your team on someone.
Thanks to the second post I was thinking about using tetryon glider see what miles I get out of that
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
I'm not one for hitting the exchange paying 10mill for 1.9% extra damage(not saying this so you) just I know some that do
I hit pug ques and pve ques most of the day to have fun regardless of damage dealt just want to make this work that's all
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
beam, and every energy weapon that isn't a DHC, does not work in an environment were there is healing, resistance and regeneration of this magnitude. especially when the damage they deal is as low as it it. its just barley more damage then an average tactical heavy ship can out heal, and as such has the slightest use in a duel, but only a organized duel were the opponent wouldn't just run once they got in danger.
if your ship cant use DHCs, your damage practically doesn't mater. you will only be a threat to noobs and npcs
beam, and every energy weapon that isn't a DHC, does not work in an environment were there is healing, resistance and regeneration of this magnitude. especially when the damage they deal is as low as it it. its just barley more damage then an average tactical heavy ship can out heal, and as such has the slightest use in a duel, but only a organized duel were the opponent wouldn't just run once they got in danger.
if your ship cant use DHCs, your damage practically doesn't mater. you will only be a threat to noobs and npcs
I'd disagree. Sure, you won't be ripping anyone to shreds in seconds like you would with 4 DHCs and 5 Tac consoles, but even 5+ Beams can be useful. If, for nothing else, pressure damage to soak up/divide heals.
Everyone has their place... except for maybe Engineers :P
I was think about loading up DEMIII but other than that I don't know
In a tac captain and for now will be running the ambassador
Yes I know a tac should only use a defiant yadayadayada
In my opinion what you need to know about beams on an escort is this. Never run more than one dual beam bank up front and one single beam array in back. There is never a need NOT to have cannons on your escort. Or a torpedo in my opinion. However the general consensus is that torpedoes suck and if you share that consensus then I would tell you there is no issue with running all energy.
If you wish to go all energy I recommend 3 cannons up front, one dual beam bank, 2 turrets in back one single beam array. Assuming you are flying a defiant with a torpedo I would go with two beam overloads, two rapid fires, one omega with attack pattern doffs, and one high yield. If not I would suggest a different ship as running an all cannon load out or an all energy loadout is not efficient on a defiant unless you decide to run 2 attack patterns (still with the attack pattern duty officers).
In my opinion beams are highly underrated on an escort. But I can tell you that they are not. Relative to any problems with faw or beam overload currently yes. Beam modifications may not be optimal for that reason. But there is nothing wrong with beams on an escort and you can be extremely effective. Just keep in mind that there is never a reason NOT TO have cannons equipped. period.
-Captain Tripwire-
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
I'd disagree. Sure, you won't be ripping anyone to shreds in seconds like you would with 4 DHCs and 5 Tac consoles, but even 5+ Beams can be useful. If, for nothing else, pressure damage to soak up/divide heals.
Everyone has their place... except for maybe Engineers :P
Tet Glider works decently enough with Beams. But it really shines with Cannons (even Singles) + Turrets and RF.
I took out my Prometheus with beams out of space dock and even with tetryon glider I could not bring my victims shields down.. The drain is just not manageable. Beam escort was always worse (or rather different) but the implementation of various passives surely didnt help it.
If escort with 4 consoles that can hug the target on perfect broadside and point blank range does **** dmg with them, what about 2-3 console ships. :rolleyes:
Unless you use DHC, your dmg sucks period.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
There is that new Systems Engineer DOFF from the Dominion Lockbox that reduces weapon drain similar to Nadeon Inversion whenever DEM is used, though only for the first 8 seconds of a salvo.
I think the only thing you'd be good for in a larger match would be for heavy torp, mines, and pet spam maintenance.
For spam (fighters/drones) only if you are tac captain or are in cruiser/sci with three tac slots to buff them up (assuming you use two TT) or both. If not then single turret is more effective spam manager then two or three beams. Dunno why, most likely due to some ACC differences between beams and cannons and possibly drain mechanics. Pure beams (no buff) simply lack the punch to kill even fighters quickly and often have issues with ACC to get the heavy torps before they get you. Buffed up it is different.
There is that new Systems Engineer DOFF from the Dominion Lockbox that reduces weapon drain similar to Nadeon Inversion whenever DEM is used, though only for the first 8 seconds of a salvo.
Based on this prognosis the pvp ques have lost another player sure you won't miss me but its a crying shame as Star Trek and beams is how it's meant to be
----=====This is my opinion you don't have to listen and no one else has to read them these "OPINIONS" are based on my exploits and my learning other people will have their opinions and that's fine just don't knock my way of doing things thanks=====---- :cool:
There is that new Systems Engineer DOFF from the Dominion Lockbox that reduces weapon drain similar to Nadeon Inversion whenever DEM is used, though only for the first 8 seconds of a salvo.
Something that a person could go through and...get a baseline. Where the resists and defense stats of the target were known...so folks could look at the numbers and adjust them based on what they might be facing - taking into account different resists and heals that would be received.
We don't have those, though. Folks have tested things against each other though, eh? OPvP: "Hey, can somebody help me test something?"
So folks must have parsed the Escort DHC vs. Escort Beam builds - they should have the DPS from the first to compare to the DPS of the latter, right? Hard numbers?
As a separate note in regard to Beams on Escorts, there's an additional benefit outside of just having the additional Tac consoles and +Weapon Power: flawed Arcs.
Okay, so this doesn't just apply to Beams - it applies to all weapons with a cycle (whether DHCs or Hyper-Plasma torps). The target only has to be in the arc when you start the cycle. The weapon will continue to fire at the target even after the target's left the arc.
Escorts are best suited to exploit these flawed Arcs because of their turn rates. With that base turn rate and judicial use of abilities that boost turn - you can give Beams the appearance of having a 360 arc while also firing your fore and aft torps.
You approach the target (Fore facing) - fire your beams and Fore torp. You turn left. Fore beams are still in their arc and continue to fire. Aft beams now in their arc begin to fire. You continue to turn left (Aft facing). Your Fore beams are still going to fire, even though they're no longer in their arc. The Aft beams will continue to fire since they're obviously still in their arc. Your Aft torp fires. You continue to turn left. Fore and Aft beams are both in their arcs and continue to fire. You turn left again (Fore facing once more). Yep, not only will your Fore beams and Fore torp fire - but your Aft beams are going to continue firing if they're still in that cycle. Given that the beams have that 250 arc, it's very easy to give the appearance of the Beams having 360 arcs - as long as you wiggle from side to side instead of just sitting on a target Fore/Aft.
It would be strange if they ever fixed this - there are probably a lot of DHC Escortjocks that would take a hit to their DPS cause they don't even realize it. Others, well - they wouldn't notice - they're that good...Evil Bastiches.
Hrmmm, so should weapons check arc per shot instead of per cycle?
It is kind of amusing. though, to have that Hyper-Plasma mounted fore, firing, doing the quick 180, and giving the appearance that your Hyper-Plasma is mounted aft while firing off the THY Omega that is mounted aft.
But still, would Arrays be more viable if:
DHCs/DCs actually only fired in their 45s?
DBBs actually only fired in their 90s?
SCs actually only fired in their 180s?
Heck, what about Torps, eh? That single shot - single activation - in its 90? Would they look better if everything else was actually limited to the arc that's supposed to be limiting them...but isn't?
Kind of begs the questions, eh? Are the weapons balanced with this flaw acknowledged or balanced without it being acknowledged? If they're balanced with it, well - that's that. If not though, maybe they should fix the arcs or balance the weapons around the broken arcs.
Simple test: Grab a friend, DHCs, CRF, line up the friend on the edge of your 45, CRF, fire, turn, and watch the DHCs fire while outside the 45 arc. It's broken.
Something that a person could go through and...get a baseline. Where the resists and defense stats of the target were known...so folks could look at the numbers and adjust them based on what they might be facing - taking into account different resists and heals that would be received.
We don't have those, though. Folks have tested things against each other though, eh? OPvP: "Hey, can somebody help me test something?"
So folks must have parsed the Escort DHC vs. Escort Beam builds - they should have the DPS from the first to compare to the DPS of the latter, right? Hard numbers?
As a separate note in regard to Beams on Escorts, there's an additional benefit outside of just having the additional Tac consoles and +Weapon Power: flawed Arcs.
Okay, so this doesn't just apply to Beams - it applies to all weapons with a cycle (whether DHCs or Hyper-Plasma torps). The target only has to be in the arc when you start the cycle. The weapon will continue to fire at the target even after the target's left the arc.
Escorts are best suited to exploit these flawed Arcs because of their turn rates. With that base turn rate and judicial use of abilities that boost turn - you can give Beams the appearance of having a 360 arc while also firing your fore and aft torps.
You approach the target (Fore facing) - fire your beams and Fore torp. You turn left. Fore beams are still in their arc and continue to fire. Aft beams now in their arc begin to fire. You continue to turn left (Aft facing). Your Fore beams are still going to fire, even though they're no longer in their arc. The Aft beams will continue to fire since they're obviously still in their arc. Your Aft torp fires. You continue to turn left. Fore and Aft beams are both in their arcs and continue to fire. You turn left again (Fore facing once more). Yep, not only will your Fore beams and Fore torp fire - but your Aft beams are going to continue firing if they're still in that cycle. Given that the beams have that 250 arc, it's very easy to give the appearance of the Beams having 360 arcs - as long as you wiggle from side to side instead of just sitting on a target Fore/Aft.
It would be strange if they ever fixed this - there are probably a lot of DHC Escortjocks that would take a hit to their DPS cause they don't even realize it. Others, well - they wouldn't notice - they're that good...Evil Bastiches.
Hrmmm, so should weapons check arc per shot instead of per cycle?
It is kind of amusing. though, to have that Hyper-Plasma mounted fore, firing, doing the quick 180, and giving the appearance that your Hyper-Plasma is mounted aft while firing off the THY Omega that is mounted aft.
But still, would Arrays be more viable if:
DHCs/DCs actually only fired in their 45s?
DBBs actually only fired in their 90s?
SCs actually only fired in their 180s?
Heck, what about Torps, eh? That single shot - single activation - in its 90? Would they look better if everything else was actually limited to the arc that's supposed to be limiting them...but isn't?
Kind of begs the questions, eh? Are the weapons balanced with this flaw acknowledged or balanced without it being acknowledged? If they're balanced with it, well - that's that. If not though, maybe they should fix the arcs or balance the weapons around the broken arcs.
Simple test: Grab a friend, DHCs, CRF, line up the friend on the edge of your 45, CRF, fire, turn, and watch the DHCs fire while outside the 45 arc. It's broken.
Yeah, we need some kind of shooting range with a built-in combat log and dmg/healing counter, where a person can load up whatever weapons s/he wants and whatever target s/he wants, and even adjust the various equipment on the target. How cool would that be? I would be in that program at least 5 times a week!!
There's actually 1 good instance now for a target dummy.
It's not exactly what you describe as it is only 1 type of target, but SB 234 in Tau Dewa functions as a good target to get baseline results on.
It's also repeatable, and it's exceedingly rare to see another player in the instance.
Yeah, I've recommended that to a few folks since S7 started. The base has pretty high resists and if you're not paying attention might even kill some players.
I spent some time there in the first couple of weeks after S7 to see how low I could get the base before time ran out.
Based on this prognosis the pvp ques have lost another player sure you won't miss me but its a crying shame as Star Trek and beams is how it's meant to be
This is a variant of what I'm working toward on one of my toons. There are some boff/doff changes I make depending on my mood. The underlined items are the things I'm still working toward - usually a case of having Blue wanting Purple or having a stand-in while working toward that item.
Consoles
Tac: 4x Plasma Infuser Mk XI (Currently 3x VR Mk XI and 1 R Mk XI - those VR Mk XII's start at ~22m EC - ouch!)
Eng: EPM, Tachyokinetic, Neut Mk XI (Typical R Mk XI currently - VR Mk XI and R Mk XII ~same price VR Mk XII ~30m)
Sci: Borg Module, Zero-Point, Field Gen Mk XII (R Mk XI currently - the R Mk XII's ~6m while the VR Mk XII's ~42m)
Do things pop like a Tac's DHC Alpha? Not a chance in Hell...lol.
Does it pop from the Tac's DHC Alpha? Nope.
Against an equally skilled opponent? I'd take this build over the average DHC build.
But it's not about 1v1's outside of duels or perhaps in CnH. I believe the Beamscort can better apply damage that warrants healing than a DHCscort. If caught in tractors during the gap in APOs, if the DHCscort's facing the wrong way...it's got nothing. 3x Turrets vs. possible 5x Beams and the Cutting Beam? Yeah, there are healers that won't bite - plenty do though - allowing others to burn down the actual target.
I could go on and on about it, but it doesn't really matter. Cause I'm not talking about the same thing that the others are talking about. It's apples and oranges.
Premades & PUGs.
Premade vs. Premade? Yeah, not going to happen. Not viable. There's just too much coordination and synergy taking place that requires the high spike from DHCs to kill anything.
PUGland? More than viable, imho.
PUG vs. PUGmade/Premade...well, let's be honest here - does it really matter? You're likely to start off with 1-2 AFKers, 1-2 more will not respawn upon seeing the other AFKers and that they're facing an organized team, and even the folks that will just suicide run over and over to get the match over as fast as possible. So that's moot, imho.
Until they address the issues with abilities ignoring weapon mods and procs and until they address the issue with firing arcs... I'd be curious to see somebody making the case for them to be viable outside of "pressure" on a healboat or nuker/debuffer in Premade World.
For PUGland? Eff 'em, if you believe you can bring value to the team by doing it - then do it. If you're just doing it because it's Star Trek (but you're not building around trying to get the most out of them) - well, be honest with yourself - don't expect much return on the investment, because you haven't made much of an investment into the build.
I took out my Prometheus with beams out of space dock and even with tetryon glider I could not bring my victims shields down.. The drain is just not manageable. Beam escort was always worse (or rather different) but the implementation of various passives surely didnt help it.
If escort with 4 consoles that can hug the target on perfect broadside and point blank range does **** dmg with them, what about 2-3 console ships. :rolleyes:
Unless you use DHC, your dmg sucks period.
TetGlider on Beams does suck because they don't have the fire rate to really make use of it.
But I dunno. I used to get pretty respectable damage out of my Intrepid at 100 Weapons power and 5 Beams. But, then again, I haven't used a beamBoat since... Season 6?
Based on this prognosis the pvp ques have lost another player sure you won't miss me but its a crying shame as Star Trek and beams is how it's meant to be
Perhaps you could try the new (and expensive) Romulan beam arrays with the plasma and disruptor proc.
More people are moving away from the STF gear and opting for the Elite Fleet shields. The plasma burn, while it doesn't seem like much, can really start putting the hurt on people only running one HE (which is pretty much everyone).
It's possible that you could just burn your target to death if you can get high DOT and a lot of plasma DOT procs.
Perhaps you could try the new (and expensive) Romulan beam arrays with the plasma and disruptor proc.
More people are moving away from the STF gear and opting for the Elite Fleet shields. The plasma burn, while it doesn't seem like much, can really start putting the hurt on people only running one HE (which is pretty much everyone).
It's possible that you could just burn your target to death if you can get high DOT and a lot of plasma DOT procs.
Things I've observed while flying Rom Beams/Hyper/Omega/(EWP) and Hyper/Omega/Plasma Torps/Mines/EWP:
1) The guy that wastes his HE on the DEW DoTs and leaves himself open to the Torp/Mine/EWP DoTs.
2) The healer that wastes their HE on the guy with the DEW DoTs, leaving that guy open to the Torp/Mine/EWP DoTs.
3) The somewhat coordinated group that HE's the DEW DoTs and the rest, but leaves another target exposed to DoTs/other hull damage.
4) The coordinated group that renders your DPS all but null and just kills you.
Outside of the potential disruptor proc on the Rom Plasma weapons, there's also running APD to further decrease that hull resist. APB's going to be cleared by TT spam.
This is along the lines of why I felt it was viable in PUGland but pointless in Premade World.
Beams are viable, Tactical or Engineers in any cruiser can hammer the hell out of enemies with x8 beams. First off u need to realize weapon power is boss here, EptW3,Aux2Bat and anything that increases ur weapon power setting. I have found the Ambassador to be an awesome beam boat, with the LtCmdr sci boff running he1,tss2 and Energy Siphon2 on a Aux2Bat/DeM3 build is devatating with a Tactical captain.
Things I've observed while flying Rom Beams/Hyper/Omega/(EWP) and Hyper/Omega/Plasma Torps/Mines/EWP:
1) The guy that wastes his HE on the DEW DoTs and leaves himself open to the Torp/Mine/EWP DoTs.
2) The healer that wastes their HE on the guy with the DEW DoTs, leaving that guy open to the Torp/Mine/EWP DoTs.
3) The somewhat coordinated group that HE's the DEW DoTs and the rest, but leaves another target exposed to DoTs/other hull damage.
4) The coordinated group that renders your DPS all but null and just kills you.
Outside of the potential disruptor proc on the Rom Plasma weapons, there's also running APD to further decrease that hull resist. APB's going to be cleared by TT spam.
This is along the lines of why I felt it was viable in PUGland but pointless in Premade World.
My fleetmate's plasma build does emphasizes on plasma torpedoes than arrays. So, he definitely gets more plasma procs. In fact, his ship only has the Romulan experimental beam array and the chroniton beam banks. He also runs his weapon power at the minimum, because he just uses the chroniton beams for the movement debuff proc and the beam array for the disruptor and plasma DOT.
And he does a pretty good job on his own, though he does admit that he gets slaughtered when he's being focus fired on by several people. But, really, who doesn't?
Since the plasma proc doesn't trigger as often on the romulan beam arrays, it may not work as well as one that has emphasis on the Omega and Hyper plasma torpedoes. But, it's still do-able.
Bah, need to switch log parsers - forgot that ACT doesn't do it right. Heck, STOICs doesn't do it right either. So never mind. I don't feel like manually parsing with Notepad++ and Excel right now.
One of my biggest gripes with Beams is that they (graphically at least) fire far too often. They light up the screen and look like they should really be doing something but some odd mechanics seem to prevent that from being the case.
I'd like to see beams fire only once per cycle. The damage calculations would still operate similarly to the way they do now with four possible chances to hit/miss. If all of the calculations say they hit then your single beam will be stronger. That should make the beam a little more spikey since it would apply that damage only once rather than over time.
Power drain might work more like DHCs, so it should fire at a higher level but also recover more quickly.
Fire at will would still work something like it does now (once they've fixed the issues with certain mods being ignored by various abilities). Plus, it would actually look very different from the new single shot per cycle version so it would be more visually impressive than it is now.
I also think that Beam Overload should be returned to something like its original state where the beam was offline for a while after it was used. I think it's a more realistic penalty than just power drain.
__________________________________________
Foundry: Yet Another Borg Mission
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
May not actually be "way" cooler or even "slightly" cooler.
One of my biggest gripes with Beams is that they (graphically at least) fire far too often. They light up the screen and look like they should really be doing something but some odd mechanics seem to prevent that from being the case.
I'd like to see beams fire only once per cycle. The damage calculations would still operate similarly to the way they do now with four possible chances to hit/miss. If all of the calculations say they hit then your single beam will be stronger. That should make the beam a little more spikey since it would apply that damage only once rather than over time.
Power drain might work more like DHCs, so it should fire at a higher level but also recover more quickly.
Fire at will would still work something like it does now (once they've fixed the issues with certain mods being ignored by various abilities). Plus, it would actually look very different from the new single shot per cycle version so it would be more visually impressive than it is now.
I also think that Beam Overload should be returned to something like its original state where the beam was offline for a while after it was used. I think it's a more realistic penalty than just power drain.
As a beam user, I agree ! always found stupid the look of beams firing. I could even live with a new type of beam, heavy beam...one or two long slow powerful hits.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Comments
I think the only thing you'd be good for in a larger match would be for heavy torp, mines, and pet spam maintenance.
Thanks to the second post I was thinking about using tetryon glider see what miles I get out of that
But, I have put all beams on a cruiser and even on my escort before. Just for fun.
I'm not one for hitting the exchange paying 10mill for 1.9% extra damage(not saying this so you) just I know some that do
I hit pug ques and pve ques most of the day to have fun regardless of damage dealt just want to make this work that's all
if your ship cant use DHCs, your damage practically doesn't mater. you will only be a threat to noobs and npcs
I'd disagree. Sure, you won't be ripping anyone to shreds in seconds like you would with 4 DHCs and 5 Tac consoles, but even 5+ Beams can be useful. If, for nothing else, pressure damage to soak up/divide heals.
Everyone has their place... except for maybe Engineers :P
Tet Glider works decently enough with Beams. But it really shines with Cannons (even Singles) + Turrets and RF.
In my opinion what you need to know about beams on an escort is this. Never run more than one dual beam bank up front and one single beam array in back. There is never a need NOT to have cannons on your escort. Or a torpedo in my opinion. However the general consensus is that torpedoes suck and if you share that consensus then I would tell you there is no issue with running all energy.
If you wish to go all energy I recommend 3 cannons up front, one dual beam bank, 2 turrets in back one single beam array. Assuming you are flying a defiant with a torpedo I would go with two beam overloads, two rapid fires, one omega with attack pattern doffs, and one high yield. If not I would suggest a different ship as running an all cannon load out or an all energy loadout is not efficient on a defiant unless you decide to run 2 attack patterns (still with the attack pattern duty officers).
In my opinion beams are highly underrated on an escort. But I can tell you that they are not. Relative to any problems with faw or beam overload currently yes. Beam modifications may not be optimal for that reason. But there is nothing wrong with beams on an escort and you can be extremely effective. Just keep in mind that there is never a reason NOT TO have cannons equipped. period.
-Captain Tripwire-
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
I took out my Prometheus with beams out of space dock and even with tetryon glider I could not bring my victims shields down.. The drain is just not manageable. Beam escort was always worse (or rather different) but the implementation of various passives surely didnt help it.
If escort with 4 consoles that can hug the target on perfect broadside and point blank range does **** dmg with them, what about 2-3 console ships. :rolleyes:
Unless you use DHC, your dmg sucks period.
For spam (fighters/drones) only if you are tac captain or are in cruiser/sci with three tac slots to buff them up (assuming you use two TT) or both. If not then single turret is more effective spam manager then two or three beams. Dunno why, most likely due to some ACC differences between beams and cannons and possibly drain mechanics. Pure beams (no buff) simply lack the punch to kill even fighters quickly and often have issues with ACC to get the heavy torps before they get you. Buffed up it is different.
So no - beams are not valid at all.
That doff is from the temp lockbox.
8s is plenty of time for a beam overload.
Static Target.
Cruiser Target.
Escort Target.
Fighter Target.
Mixed Group Target.
Something that a person could go through and...get a baseline. Where the resists and defense stats of the target were known...so folks could look at the numbers and adjust them based on what they might be facing - taking into account different resists and heals that would be received.
We don't have those, though. Folks have tested things against each other though, eh? OPvP: "Hey, can somebody help me test something?"
So folks must have parsed the Escort DHC vs. Escort Beam builds - they should have the DPS from the first to compare to the DPS of the latter, right? Hard numbers?
As a separate note in regard to Beams on Escorts, there's an additional benefit outside of just having the additional Tac consoles and +Weapon Power: flawed Arcs.
Okay, so this doesn't just apply to Beams - it applies to all weapons with a cycle (whether DHCs or Hyper-Plasma torps). The target only has to be in the arc when you start the cycle. The weapon will continue to fire at the target even after the target's left the arc.
Escorts are best suited to exploit these flawed Arcs because of their turn rates. With that base turn rate and judicial use of abilities that boost turn - you can give Beams the appearance of having a 360 arc while also firing your fore and aft torps.
You approach the target (Fore facing) - fire your beams and Fore torp. You turn left. Fore beams are still in their arc and continue to fire. Aft beams now in their arc begin to fire. You continue to turn left (Aft facing). Your Fore beams are still going to fire, even though they're no longer in their arc. The Aft beams will continue to fire since they're obviously still in their arc. Your Aft torp fires. You continue to turn left. Fore and Aft beams are both in their arcs and continue to fire. You turn left again (Fore facing once more). Yep, not only will your Fore beams and Fore torp fire - but your Aft beams are going to continue firing if they're still in that cycle. Given that the beams have that 250 arc, it's very easy to give the appearance of the Beams having 360 arcs - as long as you wiggle from side to side instead of just sitting on a target Fore/Aft.
It would be strange if they ever fixed this - there are probably a lot of DHC Escortjocks that would take a hit to their DPS cause they don't even realize it. Others, well - they wouldn't notice - they're that good...Evil Bastiches.
Hrmmm, so should weapons check arc per shot instead of per cycle?
It is kind of amusing. though, to have that Hyper-Plasma mounted fore, firing, doing the quick 180, and giving the appearance that your Hyper-Plasma is mounted aft while firing off the THY Omega that is mounted aft.
But still, would Arrays be more viable if:
DHCs/DCs actually only fired in their 45s?
DBBs actually only fired in their 90s?
SCs actually only fired in their 180s?
Heck, what about Torps, eh? That single shot - single activation - in its 90? Would they look better if everything else was actually limited to the arc that's supposed to be limiting them...but isn't?
Kind of begs the questions, eh? Are the weapons balanced with this flaw acknowledged or balanced without it being acknowledged? If they're balanced with it, well - that's that. If not though, maybe they should fix the arcs or balance the weapons around the broken arcs.
Simple test: Grab a friend, DHCs, CRF, line up the friend on the edge of your 45, CRF, fire, turn, and watch the DHCs fire while outside the 45 arc. It's broken.
Yeah, we need some kind of shooting range with a built-in combat log and dmg/healing counter, where a person can load up whatever weapons s/he wants and whatever target s/he wants, and even adjust the various equipment on the target. How cool would that be? I would be in that program at least 5 times a week!!
There's actually 1 good instance now for a target dummy.
It's not exactly what you describe as it is only 1 type of target, but SB 234 in Tau Dewa functions as a good target to get baseline results on.
It's also repeatable, and it's exceedingly rare to see another player in the instance.
Yeah, I've recommended that to a few folks since S7 started. The base has pretty high resists and if you're not paying attention might even kill some players.
I spent some time there in the first couple of weeks after S7 to see how low I could get the base before time ran out.
This is a variant of what I'm working toward on one of my toons. There are some boff/doff changes I make depending on my mood. The underlined items are the things I'm still working toward - usually a case of having Blue wanting Purple or having a stand-in while working toward that item.
Chel Grett
Engineer Captain
Passives
Romulus: +3% CrtH, ShieldHealOnCritProc
Omega: +30 Weapons Training, KineticProc
TT1, BTW2, APO1, APO3
THY1/TS1, FAW2 (THY for FvF and TS for FvK - Omega the AAs)
EPtS1, AtS1
EPtW1
ST1, HE2, TSS3
DOFFs: 2x Conn(TT), 2x DCE(EPt), EWO(Sub)
Deflector: MACO Mk XII
Engine: Aegis (+5% Defense (Engines) + 10% Defense (Escort) + Maneuvers/Impulse > 24 = would still mean +85% Bonus Defense)
Shield: MACO Mk XII
Weapons
Fore: Omega Torp, Experimental Beam Array, 2x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2
Aft: Hyper-Plasma Torp, Cutting Beam, 2x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc]x2
Consoles
Tac: 4x Plasma Infuser Mk XI (Currently 3x VR Mk XI and 1 R Mk XI - those VR Mk XII's start at ~22m EC - ouch!)
Eng: EPM, Tachyokinetic, Neut Mk XI (Typical R Mk XI currently - VR Mk XI and R Mk XII ~same price VR Mk XII ~30m)
Sci: Borg Module, Zero-Point, Field Gen Mk XII (R Mk XI currently - the R Mk XII's ~6m while the VR Mk XII's ~42m)
Devices: SFM, Aux Batt, Eng Batt
The Alpha? TT1, APO3, FAW2, THY1, EPtW1, Nadion Inversion, EPS Power.
Do things pop like a Tac's DHC Alpha? Not a chance in Hell...lol.
Does it pop from the Tac's DHC Alpha? Nope.
Against an equally skilled opponent? I'd take this build over the average DHC build.
But it's not about 1v1's outside of duels or perhaps in CnH. I believe the Beamscort can better apply damage that warrants healing than a DHCscort. If caught in tractors during the gap in APOs, if the DHCscort's facing the wrong way...it's got nothing. 3x Turrets vs. possible 5x Beams and the Cutting Beam? Yeah, there are healers that won't bite - plenty do though - allowing others to burn down the actual target.
I could go on and on about it, but it doesn't really matter. Cause I'm not talking about the same thing that the others are talking about. It's apples and oranges.
Premades & PUGs.
Premade vs. Premade? Yeah, not going to happen. Not viable. There's just too much coordination and synergy taking place that requires the high spike from DHCs to kill anything.
PUGland? More than viable, imho.
PUG vs. PUGmade/Premade...well, let's be honest here - does it really matter? You're likely to start off with 1-2 AFKers, 1-2 more will not respawn upon seeing the other AFKers and that they're facing an organized team, and even the folks that will just suicide run over and over to get the match over as fast as possible. So that's moot, imho.
Until they address the issues with abilities ignoring weapon mods and procs and until they address the issue with firing arcs... I'd be curious to see somebody making the case for them to be viable outside of "pressure" on a healboat or nuker/debuffer in Premade World.
For PUGland? Eff 'em, if you believe you can bring value to the team by doing it - then do it. If you're just doing it because it's Star Trek (but you're not building around trying to get the most out of them) - well, be honest with yourself - don't expect much return on the investment, because you haven't made much of an investment into the build.
TetGlider on Beams does suck because they don't have the fire rate to really make use of it.
But I dunno. I used to get pretty respectable damage out of my Intrepid at 100 Weapons power and 5 Beams. But, then again, I haven't used a beamBoat since... Season 6?
More people are moving away from the STF gear and opting for the Elite Fleet shields. The plasma burn, while it doesn't seem like much, can really start putting the hurt on people only running one HE (which is pretty much everyone).
It's possible that you could just burn your target to death if you can get high DOT and a lot of plasma DOT procs.
Things I've observed while flying Rom Beams/Hyper/Omega/(EWP) and Hyper/Omega/Plasma Torps/Mines/EWP:
1) The guy that wastes his HE on the DEW DoTs and leaves himself open to the Torp/Mine/EWP DoTs.
2) The healer that wastes their HE on the guy with the DEW DoTs, leaving that guy open to the Torp/Mine/EWP DoTs.
3) The somewhat coordinated group that HE's the DEW DoTs and the rest, but leaves another target exposed to DoTs/other hull damage.
4) The coordinated group that renders your DPS all but null and just kills you.
Outside of the potential disruptor proc on the Rom Plasma weapons, there's also running APD to further decrease that hull resist. APB's going to be cleared by TT spam.
This is along the lines of why I felt it was viable in PUGland but pointless in Premade World.
~The Eleventh Order~
11thOrder Youtube
And he does a pretty good job on his own, though he does admit that he gets slaughtered when he's being focus fired on by several people. But, really, who doesn't?
Since the plasma proc doesn't trigger as often on the romulan beam arrays, it may not work as well as one that has emphasis on the Omega and Hyper plasma torpedoes. But, it's still do-able.
I'd like to see beams fire only once per cycle. The damage calculations would still operate similarly to the way they do now with four possible chances to hit/miss. If all of the calculations say they hit then your single beam will be stronger. That should make the beam a little more spikey since it would apply that damage only once rather than over time.
Power drain might work more like DHCs, so it should fire at a higher level but also recover more quickly.
Fire at will would still work something like it does now (once they've fixed the issues with certain mods being ignored by various abilities). Plus, it would actually look very different from the new single shot per cycle version so it would be more visually impressive than it is now.
I also think that Beam Overload should be returned to something like its original state where the beam was offline for a while after it was used. I think it's a more realistic penalty than just power drain.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
As a beam user, I agree ! always found stupid the look of beams firing. I could even live with a new type of beam, heavy beam...one or two long slow powerful hits.
6:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwKnvRPIrl0