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Engi/Cruiser Build Help Plz

sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited February 2013 in PvP Gameplay
Hi, I'm a bootcamp student and newbie pvp'er; been to both camps twice (as my tac [cet] and engi [est]). :D So you can see I'm really serious about trying to understand these fundamentals lessons well.

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=Neye2013PvPHeal3_0

This is my proposed build based on the classes. It's tweaked a little from the suggested trees as I do a lot of PvE and tank with my Ody so I need 9 Threat and some points in Attack Patterns (APD). With this in mind I need help please with two questions:

1. How many points if any should my eng/cruiser/healer put into Starship Sensors? One of my coaches suggested 6 points, the other zero. I realize alot of the skill tree choices are opportunity costs but it seems like Sensors makes sense as i have been in a few bouts with annoying Scramble Sensors, Jam, AMS, etc. My problem is what skills to sacrifice to get 6 pips in Sensors?

2. Are points in Flow Capacitors a waste? I would eventually like to get Polarized Disruptor Accx2 BAs as well as Phased Tetryons (was told to get multiple weapon types depending on how the match is going and the team is built).

Thanks for taking the time to assist me. And if you see anything else that's glaring plz let me know. :D
Post edited by sonulinu2 on

Comments

  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Hear, hear!

    Does Sensors actually do anything against SS and AMS? I have not seen it do jack. I still get SSed and AMSed quite nicely.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited February 2013
    sonulinu2 wrote: »


    1. How many points if any should my eng/cruiser/healer put into Starship Sensors? One of my coaches suggested 6 points, the other zero. I realize alot of the skill tree choices are opportunity costs but it seems like Sensors makes sense as i have been in a few bouts with annoying Scramble Sensors, Jam, AMS, etc. My problem is what skills to sacrifice to get 6 pips in Sensors?

    2. Are points in Flow Capacitors a waste? I would eventually like to get Polarized Disruptor Accx2 BAs as well as Phased Tetryons (was told to get multiple weapon types depending on how the match is going and the team is built).

    Thanks for taking the time to assist me. And if you see anything else that's glaring plz let me know. :D

    Hello dear student and happy you asked and posed your question. Granted im no cruiser pilot, but i will happy assist with any answer i can provide.

    1. Sensors in my opinion should have a minimum of 6 to compensate for BO abilties and other debuffs which may hamper sensors. There are tons of placates as well, which makes pvp worse, so adding sufficent points in sensors is vital.

    2. Flow capacitors i have 8 points in to compensate for power drainage, and to increase skills which i may use to drain power. Against klingons this skill is aboslutly vital to prevent your energy from subsystems from going dry, as self-righteous klinks have claimed assimilators and leech is now as mandatory as APO is on escorts.
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited February 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Hear, hear!

    Does Sensors actually do anything against SS and AMS? I have not seen it do jack. I still get SSed and AMSed quite nicely.

    Yes they should reduce timers on it and minimize its effects on especially AMS:
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    devorasx wrote: »
    2. Flow capacitors i have 8 points in to compensate for power drainage, and to increase skills which i may use to drain power. Against klingons this skill is aboslutly vital to prevent your energy from subsystems from going dry, as self-righteous klinks have claimed assimilators and leech is now as mandatory as APO is on escorts.

    You mean insulators right?

    Personally I would use something more along the line of this for skills, threat control has no effect on other players and 3 is enough for any PvE while still giving you a decent boost to your defence, you may want to experiment on the Tribble server when it comes to the effectiveness of sensors skill and flow caps isn't that great in my experience.
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    devorasx wrote: »
    Hello dear student and happy you asked and posed your question. Granted im no cruiser pilot, but i will happy assist with any answer i can provide.

    1. Sensors in my opinion should have a minimum of 6 to compensate for BO abilties and other debuffs which may hamper sensors. There are tons of placates as well, which makes pvp worse, so adding sufficent points in sensors is vital.

    2. Flow capacitors i have 8 points in to compensate for power drainage, and to increase skills which i may use to drain power. Against klingons this skill is aboslutly vital to prevent your energy from subsystems from going dry, as self-righteous klinks have claimed assimilators and leech is now as mandatory as APO is on escorts.

    Thank you Coach/Mentor (from my first class too!)! I will keep my Flow Cap points then. But where do you suggest I get the points for Sensors; which skill do i skim from?
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    adamkafei wrote: »
    You mean insulators right?

    Personally I would use something more along the line of this for skills, threat control has no effect on other players and 3 is enough for any PvE while still giving you a decent boost to your defence, you may want to experiment on the Tribble server when it comes to the effectiveness of sensors skill and flow caps isn't that great in my experience.

    Thank you for your response. I realize threat has no effect in pvp other than the extra def. However in PvE I've done a lot of testing and 9 pips even with embassy +Th console is necessary against some of the more aggressive scorts.

    When you say flow cap isn't that great, do you mean it's not worth energy/shield draining; or do you mean flow consoles with 3 pips works better? Sorry for all the noob questions.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Yeah, does anyone here want to test on Holodeck when it comes up?

    I mean, test the effectiveness of Sensors against SS and AMS.

    I'd love hard numbers to see how much I should spend on Sensors.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    sonulinu2 wrote: »
    Thank you for your response. I realize threat has no effect in pvp other than the extra def. However in PvE I've done a lot of testing and 9 pips even with embassy +Th console is necessary against some of the more aggressive scorts.

    the amount of healing your ship can do more than makes up for that, why build a healboat to not use it to its fullest?
    When you say flow cap isn't that great, do you mean it's not worth energy/shield draining; or do you mean flow consoles with 3 pips works better? Sorry for all the noob questions.

    Because 6 points in insulators is far more effective than 9 points in flow caps those points are better spent elsewhere
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited February 2013
    sonulinu2 wrote: »
    Thank you Coach/Mentor (from my first class too!)! I will keep my Flow Cap points then. But where do you suggest I get the points for Sensors; which skill do i skim from?

    Need to correct myself on flow caps. 6 points in there to prevent being drained. Thanks to adamkafei for correcting me there.


    For availble points if you intend to do some pvp, i would suggest removing points in starship energy wep spec (remove here after removing 3 from aux, until 6 points is achived) or aux performance (remove 3 points).
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Hear, hear!

    Does Sensors actually do anything against SS and AMS? I have not seen it do jack. I still get SSed and AMSed quite nicely.

    My mistake. In reviewing my notes from class again, my coach said AMS has no counter. However, 6 pips in Sensors will significantly reduce down time from Scramble Sensors.
  • adamkafeiadamkafei Member Posts: 6,539 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Yeah, does anyone here want to test on Holodeck when it comes up?

    I mean, test the effectiveness of Sensors against SS and AMS.

    I'd love hard numbers to see how much I should spend on Sensors.

    I have 9 points on my sci and have yet to be attacked with AMS or SS but she has yet to make VA so I'll see how she fares with Queenie when I can :)
    ZiOfChe.png?1
  • devorasxdevorasx Member Posts: 693
    edited February 2013
    sonulinu2 wrote: »
    My mistake. In reviewing my notes from class again, my coach said AMS has no counter. However, 6 pips in Sensors will significantly reduce down time from Scramble Sensors.

    Who coached you then? I`ll personally slap that person, cause AMS`s counter is sci team, and he/she should have known that.
    Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!

    PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I personally and most of our top healers in Pandas do not spec sensors - This overall is a waste of points which can be better spent elsewhere. The other healers would cleanse you of the relevant debuffs (Part of being a team setup is to min max your roles within the team to become most effective at the said role)
  • naz4naz4 Member Posts: 1,373 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    devorasx wrote: »
    Who coached you then? I`ll personally slap that person, cause AMS`s counter is sci team, and he/she should have known that.

    It wasn't me ;)

    sci team cleanses it

    By the way sonulinu2, reduce your Threat control down to six, max out energy weapons and then batteries. More overall benefit in both PVE and PVP
  • heegoo419heegoo419 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    A couple things I did notice:

    1) You have points in Attack Patterns but your not using any. I would either move those points elsewhere or possibly run a AP: Delta instead of the FAW.

    2) Are you going for a damage/healing spec? Because I noticed that you have 6 points in Weapon Performance as well as your running a EPtW and a EPtS. Extend Shields resist power is helped by your own shield power, so you might wanna run 2 copies EPtS to keep the full up time.

    3) You have no points in Inertial Dampeners. One of the most common counters to Extend Shields is Photonic Shockwave or Repulsors. Without points into dampeners, I've personally noticed you get pushed/stunned quite a bit from those skills so it could hinder your ability to help your teammates.
    Risa Squadron
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    devorasx wrote: »
    Who coached you then? I`ll personally slap that person, cause AMS`s counter is sci team, and he/she should have known that.

    I'm sure it was my error in note taking and not the coach. And it was definitely not Naz. :D
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    heegoo419 wrote: »
    A couple things I did notice:

    1) You have points in Attack Patterns but your not using any. I would either move those points elsewhere or possibly run a AP: Delta instead of the FAW.

    2) Are you going for a damage/healing spec? Because I noticed that you have 6 points in Weapon Performance as well as your running a EPtW and a EPtS. Extend Shields resist power is helped by your own shield power, so you might wanna run 2 copies EPtS to keep the full up time.

    3) You have no points in Inertial Dampeners. One of the most common counters to Extend Shields is Photonic Shockwave or Repulsors. Without points into dampeners, I've personally noticed you get pushed/stunned quite a bit from those skills so it could hinder your ability to help your teammates.

    Hi and thank you for the above.

    1. This Boff build is for when I PvP for heal/support. I have a different Boff set up when I PVE/tank; and I do use APD then as well as FAW.

    2. For PvP really just going for healing. I have FAW for the oh so slight but why not inflict some damage if I can (and the potential procs of course). I have Skills in Weapons primarily for PvE to tank. I only run one copy of EPtW and EPtS because I run 3 Dmg Control Doffs (or whichever one give the chance to reduce EP CDs). For PvP my remaining 2 Doffs are the ones that reduce ET CD.

    3, Ty for the thought on Inertial Dampeners. Never crossed my mind and I was probably daydreaming during class when that was brought up. With all these great suggestions from you and the other above experts, my head is spinning on how to finalize my tree. :D
  • heegoo419heegoo419 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    sonulinu2 wrote: »
    Hi and thank you for the above.

    1. This Boff build is for when I PvP for heal/support. I have a different Boff set up when I PVE/tank; and I do use APD then as well as FAW.

    2. For PvP really just going for healing. I have FAW for the oh so slight but why not inflict some damage if I can (and the potential procs of course). I have Skills in Weapons primarily for PvE to tank. I only run one copy of EPtW and EPtS because I run 3 Dmg Control Doffs (or whichever one give the chance to reduce EP CDs). For PvP my remaining 2 Doffs are the ones that reduce ET CD.

    3, Ty for the thought on Inertial Dampeners. Never crossed my mind and I was probably daydreaming during class when that was brought up. With all these great suggestions from you and the other above experts, my head is spinning on how to finalize my tree. :D

    ahhh, I apologize I didnt see the would be used in PvE and PvP part.

    this is an example of what I use as a tree/setup for one of my engineers that does pve/pvp

    http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=neye_0

    here's a link you should check out regarding the skill tree and point allocation. It shows you the benefits/downsides from putting 3/6/9 points into different areas of your tree. I' not sure who did this to properly give them the credit but I've found it extremely useful.

    http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skill%20Point%20Effects.htm
    Risa Squadron
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    heegoo419 wrote: »
    here's a link you should check out regarding the skill tree and point allocation. It shows you the benefits/downsides from putting 3/6/9 points into different areas of your tree. I' not sure who did this to properly give them the credit but I've found it extremely useful.

    http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skill%20Point%20Effects.htm

    Wow, thank you this is really very helpful!

    It seems that for the most part going to 9 from 6 is hardly worth it. I wonder why then many experts suggest 9 points in, for example, Warp core potential and Electro Plasma, unless the practical experience proves otherwise. Heck if I went 6 points instead of 9 in my current skills I could easily include Sensors, Dampeners, and Flow. But I'm sure I'm missing something important.

    I know, Cryptic just give me an additional 100k Space Skill points plz. :rolleyes:
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    naz4 wrote: »
    I personally and most of our top healers in Pandas do not spec sensors - This overall is a waste of points which can be better spent elsewhere. The other healers would cleanse you of the relevant debuffs (Part of being a team setup is to min max your roles within the team to become most effective at the said role)

    In theory this sounds great and that explains why the Pandas have such a good rep. I know my fleet doesn't have the teamwork clicking that finely yet. But what I don't understand is how can another healer cleanse me if they too are under the influence of Scramble or AMS? Should we spread ourselves out? If so, don't we all need to be within approx 10km of each other so the team remains covered?

    If this question will be covered in a future bootcamp I apologize and can wait till then.
  • heegoo419heegoo419 Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    sonulinu2 wrote: »
    Wow, thank you this is really very helpful!

    It seems that for the most part going to 9 from 6 is hardly worth it. I wonder why then many experts suggest 9 points in, for example, Warp core potential and Electro Plasma, unless the practical experience proves otherwise. Heck if I went 6 points instead of 9 in my current skills I could easily include Sensors, Dampeners, and Flow. But I'm sure I'm missing something important.

    I know, Cryptic just give me an additional 100k Space Skill points plz. :rolleyes:

    There are still a few areas you will want to max out your points in just so you can be as efficient as you possibly can in PvP. Where those extra 3 points from 6-9 can mean survival or death for you or your teammates. I generally suggest 9 points in Hull Repair, Shield Emitters, Structural Integrity, Weapons Training, Shield Systems, Maneuvers, and Targeting systems. After that the min/maxing becomes a preference on what you would like to do with your build or defenses/weakness on your opposition.
    In theory this sounds great and that explains why the Pandas have such a good rep. I know my fleet doesn't have the teamwork clicking that finely yet. But what I don't understand is how can another healer cleanse me if they too are under the influence of Scramble or AMS? Should we spread ourselves out? If so, don't we all need to be within approx 10km of each other so the team remains covered?

    Firstly teams should always try and stay in range of their healers, so yes it's a great benefit to the team to all stay within 10km.

    As for the passing of heals while scrambled or AMSed, that's where keybinds come in very useful.
    If this question will be covered in a future bootcamp I apologize and can wait till then.

    If I am giving out information thats not on pace with the bootcamp I apologize for this. It's not my intention to do that at all, and some one just let me know and I will cease and desist. I do not want to undermine the efforts of all the coaches and others involved with this.
    Risa Squadron
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    even if you were stunned for .1 second, ES would be broken. but dampeners would prevent push
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    heegoo419 wrote: »
    There are still a few areas you will want to max out your points in just so you can be as efficient as you possibly can in PvP. Where those extra 3 points from 6-9 can mean survival or death for you or your teammates. I generally suggest 9 points in Hull Repair, Shield Emitters, Structural Integrity, Weapons Training, Shield Systems, Maneuvers, and Targeting systems. After that the min/maxing becomes a preference on what you would like to do with your build or defenses/weakness on your opposition.

    All the experts (sorry don't know what short name I should give all the pro=pvp'ers) seem to agree on your list for 9 pips. The only exception is 6 for Maneuvers for engi/cruiser/healer. This is a good rule of thumb thank you.
    heegoo419 wrote: »
    As for the passing of heals while scrambled or AMSed, that's where keybinds come in very useful.

    Please elaborate on this. Are you referring to the F(n) keys? F1 = self, F2-F5 other teammates?

    I have often wondered about this. Say we get hit by Scrambled, if I hit F3 then ES, will in fact player F3 get my Extend Shields or is there another kind of keybind you're talking about?

    We've talked about keybinds in bootcamp but it's always along the lines of, 'you all know about keybinds right?..." So short I forget to ask these exception/non-obvious cases; not the coaches fault but mine, of course.
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    even if you were stunned for .1 second, ES would be broken. but dampeners would prevent push

    Ok thanks, I have 3 points in dampeners. Still playing with the tree. Will probably hold off on respec until after tomorrow's ground bootcamp. Then I hope to be ready for Hilbert's classic tournament! :cool:
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