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Kinda disapointed at the JemDread Boff Slots.

captainbmoneycaptainbmoney Member Posts: 1,323 Arc User
edited February 2013 in Klingon Discussion
A carrier with a Commander Tactical is going to suffer immensely seriously what is up with that? I liked that the Recluse is Universal Commander. they could have at least brought that over with this.

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Post edited by captainbmoney on
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Comments

  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited January 2013
    Mind explaining why you believe the carrier will suffer with a Commander Tactical?

    Just saying it will suffer immensely doesn't explain anything
  • captainbmoneycaptainbmoney Member Posts: 1,323 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Because Tacticals are mostly for offensive abilities. this just rips the defensive out of carriers and just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. which sucks considering I have a Jemhadar attack ship on my main.

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  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited January 2013
    Because Tacticals are mostly for offensive abilities. this just rips the defensive out of carriers and just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. which sucks considering I have a Jemhadar attack ship on my main.

    I say it has enough defense to get by.

    Besides, you were warned that this carrier will be the most Tactical carrier of the bunch
  • ocp001ocp001 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It's pretty underwhelming. Six degrees of turn makes those DHC about as viable as the Galaxy X.

    It could at least have a polaron lance weapon.
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited January 2013
    ocp001 wrote: »
    It's pretty underwhelming. Six degrees of turn makes those DHC about as viable as the Galaxy X.

    It could at least have a polaron lance weapon.

    The stats didn't say it could use DHC's, but even if it could, beams are more appropriate. Why else would it have subsystem targeting.
  • ooiueooiue Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    cliftona91 wrote: »
    The stats didn't say it could use DHC's, but even if it could, beams are more appropriate. Why else would it have subsystem targeting.

    SubSystem Targetting in itself isn't a reason, its just an addition.

    That said, I still believe the Kar'Fi is the best Carrier out there (since all Escort Carriers are, are basically Escorts with Hanger Bays) and this Jemmy Dreadnought doesn't change that for me, despite its impressive boff and console layout, I don't think the Turn Rate is viable for such a ship combination to be effective in its intended role (but without testing, I cannot say that for sure).
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  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I'm more upset about the stats on the fighters...I mean come on pulse cannon and DEM...makes it quite worse than even the Stalkers.
  • ocp001ocp001 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    cliftona91 wrote: »
    The stats didn't say it could use DHC's, but even if it could, beams are more appropriate. Why else would it have subsystem targeting.

    Then I humbly submit you reread the stats. Looks like it's now seven degrees of turn.
  • cliftona91cliftona91 Member Posts: 254
    edited January 2013
    ocp001 wrote: »
    Then I humbly submit you reread the stats. Looks like it's now seven degrees of turn.

    Nope, still says 6 and can equip cannons.
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Not sure why this is in our Fleetyard section when this is a cross faction ship.

    Anyway I am very pleased with the boff layout this ship has. I am not interested in getting it and I am glad that this ship does not have a viable boff layout for pvp, there is already way to much carrier spam in pvp.

    This ship will work great in pve as you can just put DHC on it and get most use out of its Cmdr and Lt tac stations since you don't need a lot of turn to use DHC in pve. Thankfully pve is all this ship will be mostly doing.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • ocp001ocp001 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    cliftona91 wrote: »
    Nope, still says 6 and can equip cannons.

    Fair enough, guess should take my own advice. But still the ability for a "dreadnought" class ship with DHC, lackluster turn and carrier pets for 800 lobi. I agree with B-money...

    Where's the dread for that kind of coin?
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ocp001 wrote: »
    Fair enough, guess should take my own advice. But still the ability for a "dreadnought" class ship with DHC, lackluster turn and carrier pets for 800 lobi. I agree with B-money...

    Where's the dread for that kind of coin?

    Considering it outclasses the only other *dreadnoughts* that are playable in game I would say its fine.

    She has one more forward arc than the vo'quv...2 more tac consoles than it and 1 more tac console than the fed dread and one less rear arc...but two hangars.

    I would say its a better dread than any other playable one we have.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Considering it outclasses the only other *dreadnoughts* that are playable in game I would say its fine.

    She has one more forward arc than the vo'quv...2 more tac consoles than it and 1 more tac console than the fed dread and one less rear arc...but two hangars.

    I would say its a better dread than any other playable one we have.

    It may have 2 more tac consoles.. but it cant use DHS and turns like a cow.

    A VoQuv should easily take out the jemhadar carrier just by using birds of prey and its own dual heavy cannon loadout.

    The jemhadar carrier would only be effective... a threat ... to the VoQuv if it used ultra rare scorpion pets (plasma torp spam) and polaron or tetryon weapons that rip the shields off for those torps... but the b'rel torpedo damage+voquv heavy dual cannon damage wouldve likely popped the jemmie carrier before those plasma torps arrive.
  • ankokunekoankokuneko Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    carrier pets cant (elite scorpion, b'lroth or adv ferjal) even get through escort shields, much less a carrier. Voquv vs jemhadar carrier would be a total stalemate
    jFriX.png
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It may have 2 more tac consoles.. but it cant use DHS and turns like a cow.

    A VoQuv should easily take out the jemhadar carrier just by using birds of prey and its own dual heavy cannon loadout.

    The jemhadar carrier would only be effective... a threat ... to the VoQuv if it used ultra rare scorpion pets (plasma torp spam) and polaron or tetryon weapons that rip the shields off for those torps... but the b'rel torpedo damage+voquv heavy dual cannon damage wouldve likely popped the jemmie carrier before those plasma torps arrive.

    I don't think it said it earlier, but the blog now says both new jem ships can load cannons.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    KDF finally gets access to something called an Escort Carrier, but is more a light Flight Deck Cruiser anything like the Armitage Fed side.

    Hopefully, they'll continue tweaking the post (like adding in the 'can equip cannons' already) to something that makes a bit more sense. Why does it have +5 Aux but only an Ensign Sci dedicated and the possibility of using the Lt. Universal for it? It'd make more sense if it had a Universal Lt. Comm, but I guess it could be just for the hangar bay time reduction.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ankokuneko wrote: »
    carrier pets cant (elite scorpion, b'lroth or adv ferjal) even get through escort shields, much less a carrier. Voquv vs jemhadar carrier would be a total stalemate

    Dunno about you but my brolths constantly near-1shot kill player escorts.

    Ive had duels of me vs another voquv and the birds of prey have one-shot the other voquv. ToDujs are also quite effective if you know how to use them properly.
  • xantrisxantris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ocp001 wrote: »
    It's pretty underwhelming. Six degrees of turn makes those DHC about as viable as the Galaxy X.

    It could at least have a polaron lance weapon.

    In PvP. In PvE I can keep a Recluse lined up with cannons most of the time, and that thing moves slower than this,
  • xantrisxantris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    ocp001 wrote: »
    Fair enough, guess should take my own advice. But still the ability for a "dreadnought" class ship with DHC, lackluster turn and carrier pets for 800 lobi. I agree with B-money...

    Where's the dread for that kind of coin?

    Considering she'll likely have the best PvE damage potential in the game (with elite scorps) and a massive tank to boot... I'd say she's worth it. We don't even have stats on the Attack ship pets yet, for all we know those thing might be ridiculous; it wouldn't be surprising considering they require you to own a bug ship to get them.
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Heh, people complaining about the dread carrier...

    My Atrox puts out a ton of damage, even with her turn 5 and me not loading cannons on her. Thats with a lt tac. People undersestimate the amount of damage pets do under the right curcumstances.

    The dread carrier is going to be a nightmare beast in PvE. PvP it will be another carrier. Yay.

    If you can't figure out how to make the dread carrier a PvE beast, I'd sugest retirement, that or maybe Hello Kitty Adventure Island.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Dread Bug...vs Vo'quv and Kar'Fi (not comparing the Mirror nor Fleet Vo'quv):

    Hull
    +3000
    +10500

    Shield Modifier
    +0.15
    -0.05

    Crew
    -500
    +500

    Weapons
    +1 Fore

    Devices
    -1

    Consoles
    +2 Tac, +1 Eng, -2 Sci
    +1 Tac, +2 Eng, -2 Sci

    Turn Rate
    +1
    -1

    Impulse Modifier
    +0.02
    +0.02

    Inertia
    ???

    Power
    +10 Weapon
    +5 Aux

    Other
    Has Subsystem Targeting like the Vo'quv. Only one of the three that can equip Bug pets if you've got a Bug. Kar'Fi has the PSG console. Dread Bug has the DCI console and can use the Heavy Bug's DCP console (which means the 2pc bonus if both are used).

    Okay then, so how about those BOFF layouts?

    Dread Bug: CMDR LT LCDR EN LT
    Vo'quv: LCDR LCDR CMDR LT
    Kar'Fi: LCDR LT LT CMDR EN

    While it's not as simple as just a "count" of abilities, it obviously stands out how the Dread Bug compares to the other two in regard to Sci abilities. EN plus possible LT vs. CMDR LT/CMDR EN. You'd be looking at either comparing a CMDR slot to an EN or LT slot. Yeah, Sci is not the Dread Bug's thing. That's also reflected in having 2 fewer Sci consoles than either the Vo'quv or Kar'Fi.

    It picks up that CMDR level ability over both of them (and that Tac'ness is reflected in the 4/3 weapons as well as the +2/+1 Tac consoles). Compared to the Vo'quv, it also has the additional LT Tac slot.

    Like the Tac angle, the Dread Bug has +1 Eng console compared to the Vo'quv and +2 Eng consoles compared to the Kar'Fi. The option exists to use that LT Uni as another Eng slot over the Vo'quv, while even at base it has the LCDR level ability over the Kar'Fi (with the option of using that LT Uni still).

    You can't think of the Dread Bug like you would the Vo'quv or the Kar'Fi. That change in Sci is...a big change. First off, there's no GW/PSW/VM. Then, there's no "3" of any Sci ability. CPB, ES, FBP, PO, TBR, SS. and TR are all limited to "1" if you were to take them.

    Meanwhile, looking at the CMDR Tac - you're not looking at any abilities you couldn't take - just "2" and "3" of abilities you could. You gain access to APO2/3, and "3" for APB, APD, CRF, CSV, and DPB.

    Compared to the Kar'Fi, the LCDR Eng slot gives you access to AB1 and EWP1 (as well as "2" and "3" for various other abilities).

    Yep, it's basically a somewhat tanky "Escort" BOFF layout...on a ship with a turn of 6. Which is why, imho, there have been the comments about it being a PvE boat and a PvP failboat. Without the Sci goodies, that extra hull's not going to mean much as somebody chews through that extra hull in the blink of an eye. PvE on the other hand, I can see it being fun.

    Heck, I'd still fly it in PvP if I ever picked it up - but I do flaky things like that. Sometimes it works - sometimes it doesn't. Heh, think about how much hull you could still have when hitting GDF at 50% or lower...it's already fun to do that in a Vo'qvu - can picture that with the two additional Tac consoles as well as an APO3 instead of an APO1, etc, etc, etc.
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I'm actually thinking of the power of a carrier that provides its own AP:B3 with 2 racks of elite scorps... AP:O is nice but AP:B helps your pets and teammates as well.
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  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    kimmym wrote: »
    I'm actually thinking of the power of a carrier that provides its own AP:B3 with 2 racks of elite scorps... AP:O is nice but AP:B helps your pets and teammates as well.

    I tend to think in regards to movement... but yeah, given the DCI and DCP consoles as well as the 2pc bonus - dropping out APB on targets could be interesting.
  • bi9tbi9t Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Its a PvE ship and probably be one of the strongest.

    If you are complaining from a PvP perspective than I dont know what to tell you. Before the stats were released everyone was complaining about them being overpowered, then once the stats were released, 6 hours later, people were complaining they were too weak.

    If you dont like the ship dont fly it. There are alot of other carriers with different boff layouts that can fill your desire.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    bi9t wrote: »
    Its a PvE ship and probably be one of the strongest.

    If you are complaining from a PvP perspective than I dont know what to tell you. Before the stats were released everyone was complaining about them being overpowered, then once the stats were released, 6 hours later, people were complaining they were too weak.

    If you dont like the ship dont fly it. There are alot of other carriers with different boff layouts that can fill your desire.

    To be fair, couldn't there be some happy middleground? Why do things have to be OP or UP? It's like we're all Goldilocks looking for the third option...
  • xantrisxantris Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    To be fair, couldn't there be some happy middleground? Why do things have to be OP or UP? It's like we're all Goldilocks looking for the third option...

    Because that's generally how this game works.
  • bi9tbi9t Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    To be fair, couldn't there be some happy middleground? Why do things have to be OP or UP? It's like we're all Goldilocks looking for the third option...

    I think the ships are great and will be fine. But spend more than 2 minutes on this forum and people will find a way to cry about anything, hence my post of the contradiction that exist. The only time I really care about any of this stuff is when cryptic actually listens to all the crybabies that are nothing but an overwhelming loud minority.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    To be fair, couldn't there be some happy middleground? Why do things have to be OP or UP? It's like we're all Goldilocks looking for the third option...

    One man's OP is another man's UP, is another man's 'middle-ground'.

    If you mention any one thing in this game we can do or use, you'll probably get all 3 answers. One person will say it's overpowered for reason X, another will say it's underpowered for reason Y, and another will say it's fine as is for reason Z, maybe also including reasons X and Y.

    Example:

    RMC

    Reason X: It's overpowered because it allows you to repair ALL subsystems and give a large boost for no other cost.

    Reason Y: It's not really that powerful, considering that the power can still be drained, and you can be re-disabled.

    Reason Z: It's fine as is, because it provides a good boost to power and repairs systems, but also has such a long cooldown, you have to use it strategically. Also, if you get disabled again, have another power ready to fix it, don't overly rely on it.

    A simple example, but still, it's there. Mention anything, and pretty much it'll always be split into 3.

    The real problem lies in actually figuring out what the item/ship/etc actually is: OP, UP, or middle-ground.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    To be honest I was hoping for this BOFF layout:

    • 1 Commander Tactical,
    • 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal,
    • 1 Lieutenant Engineering,
    • 1 Lieutenant Science
    Allows for more customization than the current set-up and different careers could use it and use the universal for their career powers.

    Shame it is the way it is, I rarely use engineering powers and I find the BOFF set-up a major incentive not to get the ship.
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  • ooiueooiue Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I personally don't plan to get it at all, I love my Kar'Fi and my new Mirror Vo'Quv and I wouldn't fly this at all.
    To be honest I was hoping for this BOFF layout:

    • 1 Commander Tactical,
    • 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal,
    • 1 Lieutenant Engineering,
    • 1 Lieutenant Science
    Allows for more customization than the current set-up and different careers could use it and use the universal for their career powers.

    Shame it is the way it is, I rarely use engineering powers and I find the BOFF set-up a major incentive not to get the ship.

    That does seem to fit the general Carrier play more.
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