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Bioneural traded for Nadeon?

cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited January 2013 in Klingon Discussion
Bioneural: Essentially a high yield tricobalt torpedo with a point defense turret on its nose. Can be fired out to 15km range which has armor and shields to protect itself en-route. Does not consume boff torpedo abilities. Acquires new target if old target is lost. 1 minute timer.

Nadeon detonator: Turns most torpedos into a photonic shockwave after impact. No damage bonus (1pnt of shields renders the entire shockwave damage null) to the torpedo fired with this ability, 3 minute delay timer. Triggers delay in torpedo boff abilities (aka you cant fire two torp spreads and assign nadeon to a third launcher).



This is the stupidest trade-off I've seen. Completely and utterly biased towards giving the Federation faction a very potent weapon while giving the KDF a TRIBBLE in exchange.


A FAIR exchange would have been the bioneural for the torpedo point defense system.
Post edited by cmdrskyfaller on
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Comments

  • f9thaceshighf9thaceshigh Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    you're not losing the bioneural. Relax. If anything it's just making things more even.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    you're not losing the bioneural. Relax. If anything it's just making things more even.

    It IS about losing it as a unique KDF weapon. The thing is we're getting TRIBBLE in return.


    Its like the KDF getting the Vesta console set and giving them the magnetrometric generator in return.

    The only console the federation has that is equivalent to the bioneural is the torpedo point defense.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,708 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Well one of the reward packs give the point defense to klingons and feds Subspace jump.

    Evens out in the end.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • edited January 2013
    This content has been removed.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,921 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It IS about losing it as a unique KDF weapon. The thing is we're getting TRIBBLE in return.


    Its like the KDF getting the Vesta console set and giving them the magnetrometric generator in return.

    The only console the federation has that is equivalent to the bioneural is the torpedo point defense.

    I don't know...I wouldn't be to upset if we got say the wide angle quantum next lockbox...would be fair...though should get it this box to be honest.
  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    questerius wrote: »
    Well one of the reward packs give the point defense to klingons and feds Subspace jump.

    Evens out in the end.

    Subspace Jump is a very potent console just like the point defense turret is.

    Nadeon is nowhere near the performance of a bioneural.
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Bioneural: Essentially a high yield tricobalt torpedo with a point defense turret on its nose. Can be fired out to 15km range which has armor and shields to protect itself en-route. Does not consume boff torpedo abilities. Acquires new target if old target is lost. 1 minute timer.

    Nadeon detonator: Turns most torpedos into a photonic shockwave after impact. No damage bonus (1pnt of shields renders the entire shockwave damage null) to the torpedo fired with this ability, 3 minute delay timer. Triggers delay in torpedo boff abilities (aka you cant fire two torp spreads and assign nadeon to a third launcher).



    This is the stupidest trade-off I've seen. Completely and utterly biased towards giving the Federation faction a very potent weapon while giving the KDF a TRIBBLE in exchange.


    A FAIR exchange would have been the bioneural for the torpedo point defense system.


    People say this with every lockbox.

    This is because Feds have mostly terrible consoles, and KDF does not.
  • scurry5scurry5 Member Posts: 1,554 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    It's not really that bad. It's partly because the Nadeon is most handy in PvP, for breaking extend chains. In PvE, on the other hand, there's not much you can use it for besides breaking tractors. So, while Nadeon is slightly less useful than Bioneural, it's not really as bad as you think.

    Come to think of it, this will give BoPs another way to break tractors.....Always handy. The stun might also be handy to increase the time you have to alpha......possibly.
  • trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    People say this with every lockbox.

    This is because Feds have mostly terrible consoles, and KDF does not.
    As a player who was all FED until months ago, I gotta agree with this :( So really, the fact we're getting crud back is unavoidable.
    Was named Trek17.

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  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    this thread is a joke, right? you cant honestly think the worthless bio neural is as nice to have as the shockwave torp. RIGHT?

    dude, kdf scored pretty big here, stuns disrupting over time abilities like TB, ES, EWP, TBR, etc.. are hugely beneficial in pvp, its a free PSW on your target for any ship. as always, neither of these things are any good in pve, and i have no idea how you like that silly gimmick, and care so much that its going in a lock box
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, and let's not forget the cooldown reduction of the console with Photonic doffs. ;)
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  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Bioneural I like because it's a fun little toy, especially if it crits when you fire it, because then all the shots it fires are automatic crits as well, plus the actual hit (if it lives).

    But yeah, KDF got the better end. I can't wait to get a Nadeon for my KDF sci.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,708 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Subspace Jump is a very potent console just like the point defense turret is.

    Nadeon is nowhere near the performance of a bioneural.

    You serious? I would not put the subspace jump on my BoP if people payed me to do so.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    this thread is a joke, right? you cant honestly think the worthless bio neural is as nice to have as the shockwave torp. RIGHT?

    dude, kdf scored pretty big here, stuns disrupting over time abilities like TB, ES, EWP, TBR, etc.. are hugely beneficial in pvp, its a free PSW on your target for any ship. as always, neither of these things are any good in pve, and i have no idea how you like that silly gimmick, and care so much that its going in a lock box

    this, Bioneural warhead is maybe nice while leveling...but then it is worthless.
    You serious? I would not put the subspace jump on my BoP if people payed me to do so.
    on a BoP you will hardly need it, since there is nothing turning faster than you. But imagine it in combination with subnuke or some other narrow arc weapon. (javelin, lance)
    also the movement can save your TRIBBLE...it certainly saved mine countless times, regardless of the ship i used.
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  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 2,382 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I actually like the bio-neural as, effectively, a suiciding fighter more than as an actual torp.

    A bio-neural torp is another bird in the air, shooting at stuff. The fact that it blows up at the end is almost incidental...
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  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    this thread is a joke, right? you cant honestly think the worthless bio neural is as nice to have as the shockwave torp. RIGHT?

    dude, kdf scored pretty big here, stuns disrupting over time abilities like TB, ES, EWP, TBR, etc.. are hugely beneficial in pvp, its a free PSW on your target for any ship. as always, neither of these things are any good in pve, and i have no idea how you like that silly gimmick, and care so much that its going in a lock box

    At the expense of using up a torp ability and sacrificing its damage.

    Look, the 'stun' ability barely lasts 1 second so it is really useless. Using it as a means to disrupt tractors and such is so, so situational its not even worth equipping it for that particular purpose (theres many other ways to do that).

    Rather than shoot a HY3 or Spread3 on a target you're firing a regular damage torpedo that pops into a shockwave. Knockback and 1s stun is all you get in return.


    Thing is, IF the console did NOT trigger torpedo boff timers the nadeon would be indeed VERY good.

    But it doesn't.

    We are trading a torpedo that, with good torp skills can do nearly 50k damage (plus whatever damage the turret does in flight..and the turret's damage IS buffed by the BoP's tac abilities and consoles!) for a console that does no extra damage, stuns for a second and puffs ships back a few hundred meters.

    This is not a good trade.


    Yes, I understand feds have crappy consoles. However that is no excuse to give them the very best consoles which KDF players paid for... in return for TRIBBLE.
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    baudl wrote: »
    this, Bioneural warhead is maybe nice while leveling...but then it is worthless.


    on a BoP you will hardly need it, since there is nothing turning faster than you. But imagine it in combination with subnuke or some other narrow arc weapon. (javelin, lance)
    also the movement can save your TRIBBLE...it certainly saved mine countless times, regardless of the ship i used.

    Exactly my thought. Put this 'nuke' on a gal-X fitted with cannons and tric mines, maybe a jumper console too...
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  • erraberrab Member Posts: 1,434 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yeah,

    I think OP is way off here.

    The Bio neural was never all that special and I only used it once or twice and I got it when it was 1st released.

    The Nadeon console is a big win here for the KDF and I think it will be a nice new option for those of us who use the Brel Refit with the Enhanced Battle Cloak.

    I am curious to know if the Nadeon console has been made to work will all Torpedo types because I use it on my Fed Tac in the Steam Runner and it only worked with Photon Torpedo's there.
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  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    errab wrote: »
    I am curious to know if the Nadeon console has been made to work will all Torpedo types because I use it on my Fed Tac in the Steam Runner and it only worked with Photon Torpedo's there.

    I believe they changed it a few weeks ago to work with all non-targettable torpedoes.

    So no Bio Neurals, no Breen Clusters, Tric torps, etc.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Subspace Jump is a very potent console just like the point defense turret is.

    Nadeon is nowhere near the performance of a bioneural.
    In fact Nadeon can be way over the performance of a bioneural. You can use a Nadeon to shoot off 10+Tricbalts torpedoes at once. 1 torpdeo per target on screen which is way better then a bioneural.
  • kimmymkimmym Member Posts: 1,317 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Bio-neurals aren't worth loading most of the time. Most cases you will get more use out of a tric. The only niche use is if you really want a HY tric but can't load the skill for some reason. Almost any other torp will give you more DPS over time. They have a kick me sign written all over them. If you use it against a single target you would get better returns out of using a breen cluster torp, it has a lower cooldown and might even respond to torp doffs. Yeah... the bio-neural doesn't. It has a fixed cooldown. No loading it instead of a tric in your torp boat, because the tric is going to get cooldown reduction.

    It has limited uses, but most of the time I see a player fire a bio-nueral it just shows me they are bad at math.
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  • vinru821vinru821 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I don't mind the trade for kdf

    let the feds waste a slot on a bio neural, with the omega torp and romulan torp they will have a hard time deciding what to pick.
    :eek:
  • misterde3misterde3 Member Posts: 4,195 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    I believe they changed it a few weeks ago to work with all non-targettable torpedoes.

    Pretty much

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=489351
    "Console - Universal - Nadeon Detonator" will now enhance any standard torpedo, instead of only functioning with Photon Torpedoes.
  • momawmomaw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    PVE players: "Nadeon detonator is trash."

    PVP players: "Nadeon detonator is situationally useful."


    Yet another fine example of why PVE and PVP need to be addressed separately.
  • bitemepwebitemepwe Member Posts: 6,760 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    The Nadeon console works on any torpedo so B'rel torp builds may ahve gotten a good boost out of this.


    and frankly the others are right we get TRIBBLE from the exchange becuase the feds have lessor consoles in comparison.

    BTw, I like the BIo-Nueral torpedo.
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  • cmdrskyfallercmdrskyfaller Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    bitemepwe wrote: »
    The Nadeon console works on any torpedo so B'rel torp builds may ahve gotten a good boost out of this.


    and frankly the others are right we get TRIBBLE from the exchange becuase the feds have lessor consoles in comparison.

    BTw, I like the BIo-Nueral torpedo.

    It is irrelevant if it works on any torpedo.

    It REPLACES a torpedo BOFF skill. You can NOT use high yield, torp spread AND nadeon detonator , the nadeon replaces one of the previous boff attacks.. using nadeon triggers boff torpedo attack timers.

    ...and it replaces it high damage (and high damage AOE if replacing spread) for the sake of knocking back targets and 1 second disable. There is ZERO damage boost to the nadeon-enhanced torpedo.

    So no, it does not 'boost' anything...particularly in the b'rel torp setup.

    What i'm sayins is IF the nadeon console was independent of boff abilities it would be a fine trade. But it isnt.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    OP should be glad, that the KDF did not get emission seeking torpedo instead. Pff.
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  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    momaw wrote: »
    PVE players: "Nadeon detonator is trash."

    PVP players: "Nadeon detonator is situationally useful."


    Yet another fine example of why PVE and PVP need to be addressed separately.
    It's not a PvP vs. PvE thing. It's a type-of-enemies thing. Nadeon is situationally useful in PvP because of the type of enemies you fight: People, who use team support skills, that you want to break up by knocking them apart and stunning them. Since the NPCs we presently fight (Borgs) do not use such abilities, an ability that counters such a behavior is of no use in such a fight.

    It's the same story behind other abilities like, say, SNB...in PvP, SNB is everything, it defines the entire landscape of the battlefield...in PvE...it's basically near useless: Enemies have no buffs to remove nor abilities to impede, just tons of hitpoints for you to beat down until they die.

    NPCs should behave more like players.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,326 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    There is ZERO damage boost to the nadeon-enhanced torpedo.
    That is not true for all torpedoes. Like I said before the nadeon can make you shoot over x3 more torpedoes out in a volley then torpedo spread III. Each one of those torpedoes will have a large AoE blast as well. There was also extra damage from the particle skill. So you can have all tac and all sci slots boosting torpedo damage along with other items.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    OP should be glad, that the KDF did not get emission seeking torpedo instead. Pff.

    Lol, I was thinking about that after Bran shut down one of the threads saying what the pairing would be. How are they going to handle that one, eh?
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