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Placate stacking

shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited February 2013 in PvP Gameplay
With the last season there arrived many mechanics that were rushed and poorly-tested at best. The original Tier 4 shield heal comes to mind, as do both the Embassy DOffs and BOffs (it's quite astounding that the same mistake was made twice in such rapid succession). I also think human BOffs need another look at but that's still up in the air at the moment.

By far the most frustrating aspect introduced was the Tier 4 Romulan placate. Along with the decision to introduce placate DOffs and a decoupling of the KHG shield from the exclusive purview of the KDF, we now have a situation where placates can rather easily be stacked onto one another to not only overcome the RNG but create a reliable, zero-cost defense. On top of that, there's a Tier 5 cloak toggle which passes the line of the excessive into the absurd. We didn't need cloaks on every ship before and we don't need them now.

The potential for stacking different sources is a nightmare but the placate itself is no joke either. A supposed immunity was put in place, however it doesn't appear to be functioning correctly (I've FRAPsed footage of the debuff reapplying twice in the span of ~7 or 8 seconds), and it only provides immunity for one player, meaning the rest can still be constantly placated by the thing (this also cuts short one potential counter for the placate: taking target from allies).

While irritating for players who need to keep an arc with their weapons or abilities, this nerfs pure Sci ships the most; SA breaks on the placate if you don't reacquire target fast enough. It's also just plain silly, and with all the projectiles and plasma and people dipping in and out of vision constantly, the game feels like an utter visual mess.

I urge the developers to reconsider the passives, the Romulan placate in particular. There are two solutions:

1. Disable all Reputation passives in PvP, in the same manner that TC allegedly works (I personally prefer this option);

2. Apply a real, hard-lasting immunity to the proc and lower the proc rate by an order of magnitude. It procs far, far too often for the cost it involves in taking it (none).

Best + love,

- Shim
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
vids and guides and stuff

[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Post edited by shimmerless on
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Comments

  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    There's the DOFF, the OnCrit Passive, the OnBeingCrit Passive, the Rep Cloak, the KHG Shields for both KDF/Fed, Jam Sensors...Scramble Sensors...AMS...

    ...am I forgetting anything that dorks with targeting-placates, confuses, perception, etc?

    With the happening more often than 12s thing, I think a lot of folks have noticed that. My question, though, is it possible that somebody's got both the OnCrit Passive and the OnBeingCrit Passive?

    So, they're doing a Plac when they Crit you and they're doing a Plac when you Crit them? That the "immunity" is only specific to the same particular ability/plac? So, you could end up with multiple Placs taking place at different times - as each deals with their individual (or small group) immunities but without there being any global immunity?

    In general though, CC shows a somewhat underdeveloped nature of the game compared to other games. When STO came out, there was plenty of information available from what other games had done (including the mistakes they felt they made) - in the interim - it's been even further refined in other games that have been around or new games that came out and paid attention to what the games before them did.

    As more and more has gotten lumped in...the issues, such as this, become more and more apparent.
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    dont forget the cpb aoe placate!
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    dont forget the cpb aoe placate!

    See...knew I was forgetting something.

    Course, in talking about things that "break target" for Sci stuff - would we also want to add PSW and other shockwave things with a disable? Do the Nadeon shocks disable like that? How about the Vesta push - pushing out of range?
  • rudiefix1rudiefix1 Member Posts: 420
    edited January 2013
    in my opinion the whole game is getting saturated with al this kind of "stuff".... And yes, in pvp the screen is a mess nowadays.

    I wonder how it would be if the borg npc's would placate everyone, shockwaving viralmatrixing, cloaked tractoring and draining your powers while stuck in the cube's warp plasma and all your crew assimilated, so no repairs of any kind....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    @rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
    @rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
    @rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
  • maicake716maicake716 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    See...knew I was forgetting something.

    Course, in talking about things that "break target" for Sci stuff - would we also want to add PSW and other shockwave things with a disable? Do the Nadeon shocks disable like that? How about the Vesta push - pushing out of range?

    i thought you were talking about placates... theres a doff that can be put on that gives cpb a 20% chance to placate anything it hits.
    mancom wrote: »
    Frankly, I think the only sound advice that one can give new players at this time is to stay away from PVP in STO.
    Science pvp at its best-http://www.youtube.com/user/matteo716
    Do you even Science Bro?
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    rudiefix1 wrote: »
    in my opinion the whole game is getting saturated with al this kind of "stuff".... And yes, in pvp the screen is a mess nowadays.

    I wonder how it would be if the borg npc's would placate everyone, shockwaving viralmatrixing, cloaked tractoring and draining your powers while stuck in the cube's warp plasma and all your crew assimilated, so no repairs of any kind....

    I wonder how it would be if NPCs even used Tac Teams, manual shield redistribution...lol, all the other stuff - yeah, but the NPCs don't even do the most basic things in the majority of cases.

    It's a monster farm. They're there for us to go kill and feel powerful. They know their place. :rolleyes:
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    maicake716 wrote: »
    i thought you were talking about placates... theres a doff that can be put on that gives cpb a 20% chance to placate anything it hits.

    Oh yeah, I know - I was saying I had forgotten that with the placates.

    The rest was just an addition - an aside on the overall things that can break things. It should have likely been a separate post or better separated in that post.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Maybe the NPCs oughta use all that kinda stuff. I mean, the Borg Queen essentially does.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Agreed.

    Give NPCs reputation passives so that the PvEers can see how ridiculous they are.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    And about the OP, yeah.

    One of my buddies was constantly kept placated in a 1v1.

    It's only going to get worse when more people unlock it.


    Once I get T4 Rom on a char, I'm not sure if I will slot it or not. It sounds like not taking it would gimp your character severely with the way things will be once it's mass adopted.

    But I just hate the idea of being a cheeser. :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    And about the OP, yeah.

    One of my buddies was constantly kept placated in a 1v1.

    It's only going to get worse when more people unlock it.


    Once I get T4 Rom on a char, I'm not sure if I will slot it or not. It sounds like not taking it would gimp your character severely with the way things will be once it's mass adopted.

    But I just hate the idea of being a cheeser. :(

    I choose to avoid it, but the repair isn't something I think of as gimpy.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    This is getting out of control, I am seeing a fleet that is queing up together with 2 or more people using placate stacking builds. Getting hit by the T4 Romulan passive constantly is bad enough, but when multiple people are using CPB with the placate doff it is just ridiculous. Then they make it worse by using AMS and SS with it to.

    They need to fix this so when you get hit by any confuse or placate you are immune to both for a period of time. I don't even notice getting an immunity to the t4 placate for a few seconds like we are supposed to.
    Maybe new doffs should be added or some skills should be tweaked to give us a counter to all the placates to.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    There's the DOFF, the OnCrit Passive, the OnBeingCrit Passive, the Rep Cloak, the KHG Shields for both KDF/Fed, Jam Sensors...Scramble Sensors...AMS...

    Ok so the OnCrit passive is the Romulan t4 ability, what is this On Being Crit passive?
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    This is getting out of control, I am seeing a fleet that is queing up together with 2 or more people using placate stacking builds. Getting hit by the T4 Romulan passive constantly is bad enough, but when multiple people are using CPB with the placate doff it is just ridiculous. Then they make it worse by using AMS and SS with it to.

    Christ, people sure love being pricks.

    And what's sad is that without naming and shaming, we all generally know who engages in this kind of ****. :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • emoejoeemoejoe Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    With the last season there arrived many mechanics that were rushed and poorly-tested at best. The original Tier 4 shield heal comes to mind, as do both the Embassy DOffs and BOffs (it's quite astounding that the same mistake was made twice in such rapid succession). I also think human BOffs need another look at but that's still up in the air at the moment.

    By far the most frustrating aspect introduced was the Tier 4 Romulan placate. Along with the decision to introduce placate DOffs and a decoupling of the KHG shield from the exclusive purview of the KDF, we now have a situation where placates can rather easily be stacked onto one another to not only overcome the RNG but create a reliable, zero-cost defense. On top of that, there's a Tier 5 cloak toggle which passes the line of the excessive into the absurd. We didn't need cloaks on every ship before and we don't need them now.

    The potential for stacking different sources is a nightmare but the placate itself is no joke either. A supposed immunity was put in place, however it doesn't appear to be functioning correctly (I've FRAPsed footage of the debuff reapplying twice in the span of ~7 or 8 seconds), and it only provides immunity for one player, meaning the rest can still be constantly placated by the thing (this also cuts short one potential counter for the placate: taking target from allies).

    While irritating for players who need to keep an arc with their weapons or abilities, this nerfs pure Sci ships the most; SA breaks on the placate if you don't reacquire target fast enough. It's also just plain silly, and with all the projectiles and plasma and people dipping in and out of vision constantly, the game feels like an utter visual mess.

    I urge the developers to reconsider the passives, the Romulan placate in particular. There are two solutions:

    1. Disable all Reputation passives in PvP, in the same manner that TC allegedly works (I personally prefer this option);

    2. Apply a real, hard-lasting immunity to the proc and lower the proc rate by an order of magnitude. It procs far, far too often for the cost it involves in taking it (none).

    Best + love,

    - Shim

    better idea. shoot less. do more damage with real attacks. dont get placated. end discussion. please cryptic continue to punish fail builds and spacebar mashers. and continie to reward tight highpower weapon with spot on fire control. and fyi sci ships fail damage is actually hurting noobs who just want to debuff/ cc (save ur 1 dmg turrets dude)

    ya dig bro? do u understand what i am saying? with only 3 or 4 points of damage contact i rarely suffer placate. yet, i am almost always placating failtard cannon spammers.

    more placates yum yum. and the 1 per 10 min rom special 5s cloak is TRIBBLE imho. whos happy im back to annoy you with outside the box logic and unconventional playstyle? i know iam
    o
  • emoejoeemoejoe Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Christ, people sure love being pricks.

    And what's sad is that without naming and shaming, we all generally know who engages in this kind of ****. :(

    actually now that i think about it, digging thru failposts by noobs is part of what made me quit this game in first place. the cpb jam doff is op now? and scramble sensors? go home or go hard, just go
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 1,812 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    emoejoe wrote: »
    actually now that i think about it, digging thru failposts by noobs is part of what made me quit this game in first place. the cpb jam doff is op now? and scramble sensors? go home or go hard, just go


    Not by itself no, it's the combination of all of those powers that make it stupid as ****.

    And I'm still here and will remain here. I didn't leave the game for MWO or other lolground games. :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • emoejoeemoejoe Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    See...knew I was forgetting something.

    Course, in talking about things that "break target" for Sci stuff - would we also want to add PSW and other shockwave things with a disable? Do the Nadeon shocks disable like that? How about the Vesta push - pushing out of range?

    lets go back to 30 second viral shutting down all systems and movement. k? cya back at barbie dress up bro. guess all the hardcore true skill pvpers quit amd left the whiney babies?
  • emoejoeemoejoe Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Not by itself no, it's the combination of all of those powers that make it stupid as ****.

    And I'm still here and will remain here. I didn't leave the game for MWO or other lolground games. :P

    comboing powers = winning. bo _bland, trico torp, lackluster

    ultimate minimax 1 shot simulstrike kills you thru rsp and tacteam? priceless
  • zarathos1978zarathos1978 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, yeah. And limit all to few builds that are not triggering placate. Lots of fun. Loooooots of fun I tell you.

    Go with you "hardcore" to private matches and do not bother people who want to have some fun. Who want to spent hour or so in the game after returning from work. Before all that thing called "life" like kids, wifes, cats etc. needs their attention.

    Ask Cryptic - perhaps they will make a special STO version for you with all the broken stuff being even more broken. You will have twice as much fun.
  • emoejoeemoejoe Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    Yeah, yeah. And limit all to few builds that are not triggering placate. Lots of fun. Loooooots of fun I tell you.

    Go with you "hardcore" to private matches and do not bother people who want to have some fun. Who want to spent hour or so in the game after returning from work. Before all that thing called "life" like kids, wifes, cats etc. needs their attention.

    Ask Cryptic - perhaps they will make a special STO version for you with all the broken stuff being even more broken. You will have twice as much fun.

    if only......

    theyd have to have permadeath as well instaedit
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    STO's too buggy for permadeath. :)
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    emoejoe wrote: »
    better idea. shoot less. do more damage with real attacks. dont get placated. end discussion. please cryptic continue to punish fail builds and spacebar mashers. and continie to reward tight highpower weapon with spot on fire control. and fyi sci ships fail damage is actually hurting noobs who just want to debuff/ cc (save ur 1 dmg turrets dude)

    ya dig bro? do u understand what i am saying? with only 3 or 4 points of damage contact i rarely suffer placate. yet, i am almost always placating failtard cannon spammers.

    more placates yum yum. and the 1 per 10 min rom special 5s cloak is TRIBBLE imho. whos happy im back to annoy you with outside the box logic and unconventional playstyle? i know iam
    o

    I... SA doesn't have anything to do with your weap type. It just depends on having lock (which the placates break constantly). I don't even use energy on my Sci tubs.

    Do you beat your wife too?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    emoejoe wrote: »
    actually now that i think about it, digging thru failposts by noobs is part of what made me quit this game in first place. the cpb jam doff is op now? and scramble sensors? go home or go hard, just go

    Well its not fun, and their should be doffs or abilities that give resistance or counters to placates and confuse. The system is to unbalanced currently towards these builds. You can't shoot more when your targets keep disappearing and you get focused on with no way of fighting back.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    snoge00f wrote: »
    Christ, people sure love being pricks.

    And what's sad is that without naming and shaming, we all generally know who engages in this kind of ****. :(

    Yeah isn't it just "Beautiful" how this game is turning out.
    Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
  • p2wsucksp2wsucks Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    Well its not fun, and their should be doffs or abilities that give resistance or counters to placates and confuse. The system is to unbalanced currently towards these builds. You can't shoot more when your targets keep disappearing and you get focused on with no way of fighting back.

    I agree the CritH passive is a bit much.

    But, the KHG can be mitigated by TBing 1 target for allies to shoot while you shoot at another.

    The others are clearable by Sci Team which can be reduced to 15 second cooldown w/Doffs if you really wanted or mitigated by zooming in so you only see 1 target.

    The only issue I had w/SS was when it was reported scrambling a target allowed the scrambled target to see cloaked allies. I didn't mind the hopping abilities (which can now be mitigated by using F1 1st and/or zooming in so you only see yourself), and never actually experienced the jumping evasives.

    Iirc there's a resistance option to the duration via skills.
    [Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
    Random Quote from Kerrat
    "Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
    C&H Fed banter
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    the rep system placate occurs when YOU crit your target. it has nothing to do with flying an all cannon DPS hose. and it happens every 12 seconds, because its easy as hell to have 20% crit chance anymore
  • ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    emoejoe wrote: »
    better idea. shoot less. do more damage with real attacks. dont get placated. end discussion.
    the rep system placate occurs when YOU crit your target. it has nothing to do with flying an all cannon DPS hose. and it happens every 12 seconds, because its easy as hell to have 20% crit chance anymore


    Yes, "shoot less" doesn't actually help vs. that particular placate.
  • sonulinu2sonulinu2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    I'm confused, which isn't saying much :), I thought there was only the Sensor Officer/Jam Sensor Doff that affects placate. Which Doff does the same for CPB and what does it do exactly?

    Also doesn't SS have an immunity effect after use thereby limiting it's effectiveness?
  • emoejoeemoejoe Member Posts: 229 Arc User
    edited January 2013
    the rep system placate occurs when YOU crit your target. it has nothing to do with flying an all cannon DPS hose. and it happens every 12 seconds, because its easy as hell to have 20% crit chance anymore

    actually if u did fly cannons instead of how i play ud get this placate more. lame oh well
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