screens of both anniversary ships have been posted, so i suppose its speculation time, PVP style, as in how they will effect, and what they will bring to pvp
the question is, will they be be fleet ship spec, or stock RA spec when they give them to us. since nether of these ships have any chance of a 3 pack being spawned off of them, i think theres actually a very good chance they will be fleet ship level, and then added to the fleet store after the event. the breen ship having as fleet ship level stats might be set a precedent here too.
Ambassador
42,900 hull
1.1 shield mod
7.5 turn rate
35 inertia
4 eng consoles
3 sci consoles
3 tac consoles
COM eng LTC sci LT eng LT tac ENS uni
Kamarag
38,000 hull
1.05 shield mod
10.5 turn rate
35 inertia
DC use
cloak
4 eng consoles
2 sci consoles
4 tac consoles
COM eng LTC tac LT eng LT sci ENS uni
sure, this might be a bit optimistic, but these ships would be extreamly awesome with such stats. on the ambasidor, its kinda like haveing an LTC sci on an odyssey, but also not also haveing a LT sci, which ban be a bit to much sci and not enough eng imo.
of course a kdf cruiser between the stats of fleet vorcha and fleet ktinga would be extreamly awsome as well. in some cases the fleet vorcha has too much tac, this diles the excess tac down a bit, for another close to ideal setup.
the universal ens stations would be gravy, an extreamly nice addition. though they are most likly to just be ENS eng. they might be ether sci or tac , depending on the LTC they have though, like the galor has.
Once again you evul Klinguns have an advantage...4 tac consoles and an LTC tac...Adm. Quinn, let me say this...YOU SUCK!:D
it might be 4/3/3 for the kdf ship, could only have 9 consoles. we will see. the feds though, a ship with that station setup could cause a shake up within the healing ranks as to whats the top heal boat. just like the oddy and bortasq, 1 will be a go to ship and the other might be left in obscurity. but this kdf ship isnt some fat fed cruiser clone by the looks of it, im sure it will be great for kdf cruiser fans like me.
oh ya, special console powers. im hoping none personally.
Great looking ship though, but really the KDF has enough Battlecruisers I think.
In terms of its stations I would be surprised if they lock down the LTC station to one career due to the drought the KDF have experienced over the last 2 years. I would expect them to make that Universal - to at least allow all classes an equal opportunity at a ship/ role for their class.
But then again. What I know about anything important is pretty much about nothing
42,900 hull
1.1 shield mod
7.5 turn rate
35 inertia
4 eng consoles
3 sci consoles
3 tac consoles
COM eng LTC sci LT eng LT tac ENS uni
Hrmmm... better hull and shield modifier than a Galaxy Retrofit? That doesn't really make sense for an older ship. More consoles than a G-R?
This isn't like with the Oddy - where they were doing the next Enterprise. This is the C. Even a Retrofit C would not be as good as a Retrofit D... wouldn't it more likely be a variant of a RA Star/Assault...with stats closer to that?
Kamarag
40,000 hull
1.05 shield mod
10.5 turn rate
35 inertia
DC use
cloak
4 eng consoles
2 sci consoles
4 tac consoles
COM eng LTC tac LT eng LT sci ENS uni
Hrmmm... same here. It's a better ship than it should be. It's along the lines of a variant of a Tor'Kaht...when it should be somewhere between the K't'inga and Vor'cha?
Cause if these older ships come out with better stats than the newer ships that already exist - that's TRIBBLE over the people that have those ships. It's not the same as coming out with new ships/future ships (where one would expect them to be better) - they're older ships. RA Retrofits, so they're better than standard RAs...but not on the level of VA Refits/Retrofits...because they're older.
edit: Variants of the Excelsior and the Vor'cha... cause these "new" ships are T3/T5 ships - not T4/T5 nor T5/T5+ ships.
edit2: That being said, if they hope to sell a T5 variant - it may be a case we only get the T3 free.
edit3: Or it may be a case that the free T5's weak enough that folks would pay for a T5 that's decent. Or you could be looking at the console thing.
edit4: Or don't forget all those folks that said they'd pay to be able to fly an endgame Ambassador - so it might be the T3 for free and a shoddy T5 for those folks.
the question is, will they be be fleet ship spec, or stock RA spec when they give them to us. since nether of these ships have any chance of a 3 pack being spawned off of them, i think theres actually a very good chance they will be fleet ship level, and then added to the fleet store after the event. the breen ship having as fleet ship level stats might be set a precedent here too.
since the last few releases have been of ships at fleet level, and because its basically the new baseline, i think these anniversary ships will be fleet ship level. the breen ship, steam runner, and vesta are the newest additions, and all at fleet ship level with enhanced stats and 10 consoles
my ambassador stats mirror the fleet excelsior, that is of course higher then the stats of the the non fleet galaxy. the fleet galaxy has 44k hull though, thats what my proposed ambassador is aimed at.
the klingon ship, i meant for its hiitpoints to be less then the fleet vorcha's, i'll correct that. klingon ships are going to be tactical heavier period. the vassle states are the ones making more sci leaning ships. a universal LTC isn't happening on another cruiser, thats reserved for the ody, vesta, and vet ship
don't blame me that the galaxy and fleet galaxy are a joke, i hate that thats the case. i would love for it to be a viable ship. i would let the fleet galaxy have a 4/3/3 console setup, and
COM eng
LTC eng LT uni
LT uni
ENS uni
station setup. it could have the traditional starcruiser assault cruiser setup, or something more like the steam runner with 2 like LT and the odd ENS
i think a LTC sci is a better fit on the ambassador. the galaxy was not a sci ship more then it was a battleship. the ambassador is also nearly exactly half the volume of a galaxy, so a 7.5 turn i think is appropriate
That's the thing - are they actually going to be giving a free T5 ship or just a free T3 ship with the T5 variant being a purchase involving Zen (either through the Z-Store or buying Modules)?
The Ambassador's between the Enterprise-A Cruiser and the Enterprise-D Exploration Cruiser. It's a simple T3 between the T2 and T4 there...for the T3 version. Will it be slightly worse than the T3+ Excelsior then?
Then getting into the T5 version - well, T5 can mean so many things.
Is it going to be slightly worse than the RA T5 Excelsior Retrofit? Maybe even slightly worse than the VA T5 Galaxy Retrofit? It just doesn't make sense for it to be better.
Will there be a Fleet Variant? That's entirely a possibility with a T3 < Excelsior and T5 < Excelsior Retrofit being given for free. Both versions would still be worse than a Galaxy. Even with the Fleet Ambassador - it would still end up either being worse than the Fleet Excelsior or perhaps an alternative to the Fleet Excelsior. It would still be worse than the Fleet Galaxy.
The KDF side's more complicated, eh? The Kamarag - a cross between the T3 K't'inga and the T4 Vor'cha? That sets it up as a K't'inga variant, no?
One might even make the case that the Ambassador should be lower than the Excelsior at each tier...though, I think it's more likely(tbh) that the Ambassador will be an pseudo equivalent variant of the Excelsior. Still, the Ambassador would be lower than the Galaxy.
As for the recent ships - the Steamrunner was a special case/tie-in with Steam. The Vesta's an abomination that should have only had 9 consoles since it has a hangar. The Breen ship is at that "high" VA level...but there's no history for it like there is the Galaxy for the Ambassador.
Years of discussion about them adding the Ambassador has revolved around adding a worse ship - because it was a replaced ship - the Ambassador < Galaxy. There were countless posts by folks describing an Ambassador that was better than the Galaxy... they never made sense. At the same time, there were so many posts by folks that just wanted an "endgame" Ambassador - didn't have to be better than the Galaxy - they just wanted to fly an Ambassador.
There's room for a RA Ambassador and even a Fleet Ambassador... they'd both be "worse" than the Galaxy, whether it's the VA Galaxy or the Fleet Galaxy...
I should say, I'm not a fan of the Galaxy in the least. I'm even less of a fan of the Ambassador if that's possible. My concern was more with the KDF side of things, and I'm kind of disappointed that they're tossing out the Kamarag.
Perhaps then, we'll see the K'vort offered if/when they do the Kumari for the Feds?
Oddly enough, in looking at the actual story - it made more sense for them to do the K'vort with the Ambassador (the actual story) and one can easily see where the Kamarag would have gone with the Kumari (pair of battle cruisers)...
think of my stats as what these ship's fleet level version should look like. the whole tier 3 and 5 thing is stupid and years out of date of a concept at this point. just add the ship at RA level, and then launch a fleet version at the same time. or just offer the fleet level version, and let anyone who misses the event buy them from the fleet store.
i think the version we will get is at least going to be a RA level. and at the same time the tier 3 version will be added to the c store, most likely with a console to give it a reason to exist at all.
as far as the galaxy>ambassador thing goes, don't let canon cloud your reasoning. i know, it SHOULD mater, but it doesn't and it wont. LTC sci is just a niche that makes sense for it. its got shrimpy phaser arrays by modern standards, it should be tactically inferior to the galaxy, VERY tactically inferior. so we balance that with stronger sci, thats why a dinky intrepid can be at the same tier as a galaxy. the ambassador and sovereign are basically the same volume, really its just an older sovereign as far as cruiser ranking goes. it continues to be a crime that the game is set up so every attribute the galaxy has counts as a disadvantage, but thats what we got, and they wont even acknowledge its a problem.
as far as the kdf ships go, the neg var should be twice as powerful and dangerous as a vorcha, but again, the game favors small and maneuverable, those are always good, large is always bad. its a joke that those ships are at the same level. but oh well. my ktinga beats both their TRIBBLE, proboly the biggest crime against ship logic of all. as far as the Kamarag goes, count on it to be the kdf's excelsior. the excelsior hardly makes sense too, at least the Kamarag is a few decades newer.
think of my stats as what these ship's fleet level version should look like. the whole tier 3 and 5 thing is stupid and years out of date of a concept at this point. just add the ship at RA level, and then launch a fleet version at the same time. or just offer the fleet level version, and let anyone who misses the event buy them from the fleet store.
i think the version we will get is at least going to be a RA level. and at the same time the tier 3 version will be added to the c store, most likely with a console to give it a reason to exist at all.
Yeah, adding a T3 to me is mind boggling. Leveling is just so fast in this game - outside of the person that might play an hour every week or two, what's the point of adding a T3 ship?
I suppose I could see them doing the 1k Zen to buy the console - keeping it separate so they can charge more overall for the combination of the T3 and Fleet (Modules) variants - while tossing out the free RA/VA ship.
as far as the galaxy>ambassador thing goes, don't let canon cloud your reasoning. i know, it SHOULD mater, but it doesn't and it wont. LTC sci is just a niche that makes sense for it. its got shrimpy phaser arrays by modern standards, it should be tactically inferior to the galaxy, VERY tactically inferior. so we balance that with stronger sci, thats why a dinky intrepid can be at the same tier as a galaxy. the ambassador and sovereign are basically the same volume, really its just an older sovereign as far as cruiser ranking goes. it continues to be a crime that the game is set up so every attribute the galaxy has counts as a disadvantage, but thats what we got, and they wont even acknowledge its a problem.
Heh, guess it's hard to get passed over almost a year's arguing with all those Ambassador folks out there about where the ship would fit in and what's the point of Cryptic putting so much effort into it...meh.
I try not to think too much about how they have the Galaxy, Defiant, and Intrepid at the same level...I really try not to think about that, lol. It makes me want to go have a ciggy, walk around the block, and all that sort of thing. The way the game's set up - it would be like watching TNG with a Defiant or Intrepid, watching VOY with a Galaxy or Defiant, and watching DS9 with a Galaxy or Intrepid.
as far as the kdf ships go, the neg var should be twice as powerful and dangerous as a vorcha, but again, the game favors small and maneuverable, those are always good, large is always bad. its a joke that those ships are at the same level. but oh well. my ktinga beats both their TRIBBLE, proboly the biggest crime against ship logic of all. as far as the Kamarag goes, count on it to be the kdf's excelsior. the excelsior hardly makes sense too, at least the Kamarag is a few decades newer.
The Negh'var was the "flagship" before the Bortas...sure isn't treated that way. The Vo'quv is a "dread" and it sure isn't treated that way.
As for the Kamarag - they say prototypes were built in the mid-24th century. Kamarag was the Klingon Ambassador to the Federation in the late 23rd century. The K't'inga started service in the late 23rd century (a decade or so before Kamarag was Ambassador) and were still in service into the late 24th century. The Vor'cha started to take over at that point - around 100 years after the K't'inga was introduced. For a short period (<5 years), they were even the "flagship" until the Negh'var took over.
Bah, none of my rambling matters - we all know what's going to happen:
X Players are going to scream that they're OP.
Y Players are going to scream that they're UP.
Bah, none of my rambling matters - we all know what's going to happen:
X Players are going to scream that they're OP.
Y Players are going to scream that they're UP.
Right?
it depends on if they TRIBBLE with us and give us non fleet ship level ships or not. the new kdf ship is certainly the missing link between the vorcha and ktinga. ktinga was around in the 2270s, the vorcha proboly a product of the 2350s, and the negvar 2370 or so. the Kamarag is proboly from about 2320 or 2330. so for it and the ambassador, its conceivable that they are about at the end of their shelf life, and by around 2409 would get their final overhaul. something like the excelsior, which was rotten on the vines in the 2370, just no excuse what so ever being in this game. the ktinga i could see being used for very limited roles, and a tier 1 ship, but nothing beyond that. the connie, god no, they havent built ships that size in that shape for 100 years.
it depends on if they TRIBBLE with us and give us non fleet ship level ships or not. the new kdf ship is certainly the missing link between the vorcha and ktinga. ktinga was around in the 2270s, the vorcha proboly a product of the 2350s, and the negvar 2370 or so. the Kamarag is proboly from about 2320 or 2330. so for it and the ambassador, its conceivable that they are about at the end of their shelf life, and by around 2409 would get their final overhaul. something like the excelsior, which was rotten on the vines in the 2370, just no excuse what so ever being in this game. the ktinga i could see being used for very limited roles, and a tier 1 ship, but nothing beyond that. the connie, god no, they havent built ships that size in that shape for 100 years.
The K't'inga entered service in the early 2270s.
The Vor'cha entered service in the mid-to-late 2360s.
The Negh'var entered service in the early 2370s.
Their little spiel on the Kamarag has it in service during the mid-24th century.
The Ambassador supposedly entered service around 2325, with the events of "Yesterday's Enterprise" taking place in 2344 (as far as the Ambassador side of things). They were still in service in 2367/2368 for the Klingon Civil War and were also even around in 2374 in a DS9 episode.
The K't'inga was still a frontline ship even during the Dominion War in the early 2370s. The Vor'cha and the Negh'var were still just starting out, so to speak...the K't'inga saw a lot of upgrades over that century - from flying against Connies, Excelsiors, etc, etc, etc.
To an extent, that's kind of what it feels like they may be trying to do with the Kamarag. They picked a name from a guy that was an Ambassador - they went with a period of time after which he would have been dead...and it's possible that the Kamarag was in service around the same time: 2325-late2350s? Not a very long time, eh? Maybe the Kamarag came before the Ambassador by a brief period...
...with both the Kamarag and Ambassador being replaced by the Vor'cha and Galaxy respectively because of jumps in technology/changing needs.
As each new "flagship" was introduced, the previous "flagship" became a more common ship, and the previous previous became more of a workhorse, etc, etc, etc.
On the Fed side, the Odyssey's the new flagship. So the Sovereign would become the more common ship and the Galaxy would become the workhorse. What's the Ambassador? Course, the same (only worse) could be said of the Excelsior...eh?
On the KDF side, the Bortas is the new flagship. The Negh'var becoming the more common ship and the Vor'cha the workhorse? (Heh, okay - not in STO). Here though, it would be the case of asking what does that mean the K't'inga is...? But, they're introducing a ship after the K't'inga...so bam, what's happening to the Kamarag and the K't'inga?
In a sense, it's dropping the K't'inga down to the Excelsior level. Well, given they added the Fleet Excelsior... yeah, the Kamarag and Ambassador as Fleet ships makes sense (in STO fashion).
Many of the vessels we see in the game, would have long ago been relegated to pseudo planetary defense - basically figurehead ships - showing a presence, so to speak. The Connie Refits...Enterprise-A...along with Mirandas and the rest...even there, it would be difficult to justify the expense of keeping them running in such a manner when they would have been replaced by newer Escorts that run with a lower TCO.
Hrmm, this seems to have stepped over way to the left of the discussion stats though...
...in looking at your versions vs. the Fleet Galaxy and Fleet Tor'Kaht - yeah, in that regard - can see them being along those lines.
It's kind of unfortunate that there are several KDF ships that were referred to, but their classes not revealed (verbal nor shown) - but that have been "labeled" as Vor'cha in other games, books, etc, etc.
They could have developed a point of reference for them otherwise.
im not sure were you guys are getting this limited use prototype stuff, its clearly a cruiser between the ktinga and vorcha, thats all thats really certain. such a thing most certainly existed within the canon, we just never saw it.
this sci ship and breen ship stuff is kinda bizarre, its gonna be a cruiser theres no question. you just got a sci ship and destroyer in the form of the temporal ships, its been quite a wile since a new cruiser was added. take a look at the ktinga and vorcha, its gonna be somewhere between those 2, with an unused yet station niche. i'll only believe stranger station setups on more alien designs.
I don't think anyone gives Rats-A$$ about the lower tier version of Ambassador. T3 or T4 nobody cares. Players will actually use the T5 version...plain and simple.
As for what you're going to see with the Ambassador, it's fairly easy. Ambassador might maneuver closer to an Excelsior, have a lower hull than Galaxy, and a slightly different BOFF layout the Galaxy/Excelsior. Probably a special console, and some different skins (Yamaguchi, Zhukov,1701-C, etc). It is what it is.
Comments
it might be 4/3/3 for the kdf ship, could only have 9 consoles. we will see. the feds though, a ship with that station setup could cause a shake up within the healing ranks as to whats the top heal boat. just like the oddy and bortasq, 1 will be a go to ship and the other might be left in obscurity. but this kdf ship isnt some fat fed cruiser clone by the looks of it, im sure it will be great for kdf cruiser fans like me.
oh ya, special console powers. im hoping none personally.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
I'd like to see it as a tac > sci > eng in terms of bridge slots. That would be an interesting and different ship for the klingons at least.
Great looking ship though, but really the KDF has enough Battlecruisers I think.
In terms of its stations I would be surprised if they lock down the LTC station to one career due to the drought the KDF have experienced over the last 2 years. I would expect them to make that Universal - to at least allow all classes an equal opportunity at a ship/ role for their class.
But then again. What I know about anything important is pretty much about nothing
Hrmmm... better hull and shield modifier than a Galaxy Retrofit? That doesn't really make sense for an older ship. More consoles than a G-R?
This isn't like with the Oddy - where they were doing the next Enterprise. This is the C. Even a Retrofit C would not be as good as a Retrofit D... wouldn't it more likely be a variant of a RA Star/Assault...with stats closer to that?
Hrmmm... same here. It's a better ship than it should be. It's along the lines of a variant of a Tor'Kaht...when it should be somewhere between the K't'inga and Vor'cha?
Cause if these older ships come out with better stats than the newer ships that already exist - that's TRIBBLE over the people that have those ships. It's not the same as coming out with new ships/future ships (where one would expect them to be better) - they're older ships. RA Retrofits, so they're better than standard RAs...but not on the level of VA Refits/Retrofits...because they're older.
edit: Variants of the Excelsior and the Vor'cha... cause these "new" ships are T3/T5 ships - not T4/T5 nor T5/T5+ ships.
edit2: That being said, if they hope to sell a T5 variant - it may be a case we only get the T3 free.
edit3: Or it may be a case that the free T5's weak enough that folks would pay for a T5 that's decent. Or you could be looking at the console thing.
edit4: Or don't forget all those folks that said they'd pay to be able to fly an endgame Ambassador - so it might be the T3 for free and a shoddy T5 for those folks.
since the last few releases have been of ships at fleet level, and because its basically the new baseline, i think these anniversary ships will be fleet ship level. the breen ship, steam runner, and vesta are the newest additions, and all at fleet ship level with enhanced stats and 10 consoles
my ambassador stats mirror the fleet excelsior, that is of course higher then the stats of the the non fleet galaxy. the fleet galaxy has 44k hull though, thats what my proposed ambassador is aimed at.
the klingon ship, i meant for its hiitpoints to be less then the fleet vorcha's, i'll correct that. klingon ships are going to be tactical heavier period. the vassle states are the ones making more sci leaning ships. a universal LTC isn't happening on another cruiser, thats reserved for the ody, vesta, and vet ship
don't blame me that the galaxy and fleet galaxy are a joke, i hate that thats the case. i would love for it to be a viable ship. i would let the fleet galaxy have a 4/3/3 console setup, and
COM eng
LTC eng
LT uni
LT uni
ENS uni
station setup. it could have the traditional starcruiser assault cruiser setup, or something more like the steam runner with 2 like LT and the odd ENS
i think a LTC sci is a better fit on the ambassador. the galaxy was not a sci ship more then it was a battleship. the ambassador is also nearly exactly half the volume of a galaxy, so a 7.5 turn i think is appropriate
The Ambassador's between the Enterprise-A Cruiser and the Enterprise-D Exploration Cruiser. It's a simple T3 between the T2 and T4 there...for the T3 version. Will it be slightly worse than the T3+ Excelsior then?
Then getting into the T5 version - well, T5 can mean so many things.
Is it going to be slightly worse than the RA T5 Excelsior Retrofit? Maybe even slightly worse than the VA T5 Galaxy Retrofit? It just doesn't make sense for it to be better.
Will there be a Fleet Variant? That's entirely a possibility with a T3 < Excelsior and T5 < Excelsior Retrofit being given for free. Both versions would still be worse than a Galaxy. Even with the Fleet Ambassador - it would still end up either being worse than the Fleet Excelsior or perhaps an alternative to the Fleet Excelsior. It would still be worse than the Fleet Galaxy.
The KDF side's more complicated, eh? The Kamarag - a cross between the T3 K't'inga and the T4 Vor'cha? That sets it up as a K't'inga variant, no?
Basically:
T3 Ambassador < T4 Galaxy
T5 Ambassador Re/Retro < T5 Galaxy Retro
Fleet Ambassador < Fleet Galaxy
T3 Kamarag < T4 Vor'cha
T5 Kamarag < T5 Vor'cha Retrofit
Fleet Kamarag < Fleet Tor'Kaht
One might even make the case that the Ambassador should be lower than the Excelsior at each tier...though, I think it's more likely(tbh) that the Ambassador will be an pseudo equivalent variant of the Excelsior. Still, the Ambassador would be lower than the Galaxy.
As for the recent ships - the Steamrunner was a special case/tie-in with Steam. The Vesta's an abomination that should have only had 9 consoles since it has a hangar. The Breen ship is at that "high" VA level...but there's no history for it like there is the Galaxy for the Ambassador.
Years of discussion about them adding the Ambassador has revolved around adding a worse ship - because it was a replaced ship - the Ambassador < Galaxy. There were countless posts by folks describing an Ambassador that was better than the Galaxy... they never made sense. At the same time, there were so many posts by folks that just wanted an "endgame" Ambassador - didn't have to be better than the Galaxy - they just wanted to fly an Ambassador.
There's room for a RA Ambassador and even a Fleet Ambassador... they'd both be "worse" than the Galaxy, whether it's the VA Galaxy or the Fleet Galaxy...
Perhaps then, we'll see the K'vort offered if/when they do the Kumari for the Feds?
Oddly enough, in looking at the actual story - it made more sense for them to do the K'vort with the Ambassador (the actual story) and one can easily see where the Kamarag would have gone with the Kumari (pair of battle cruisers)...
i think the version we will get is at least going to be a RA level. and at the same time the tier 3 version will be added to the c store, most likely with a console to give it a reason to exist at all.
as far as the galaxy>ambassador thing goes, don't let canon cloud your reasoning. i know, it SHOULD mater, but it doesn't and it wont. LTC sci is just a niche that makes sense for it. its got shrimpy phaser arrays by modern standards, it should be tactically inferior to the galaxy, VERY tactically inferior. so we balance that with stronger sci, thats why a dinky intrepid can be at the same tier as a galaxy. the ambassador and sovereign are basically the same volume, really its just an older sovereign as far as cruiser ranking goes. it continues to be a crime that the game is set up so every attribute the galaxy has counts as a disadvantage, but thats what we got, and they wont even acknowledge its a problem.
as far as the kdf ships go, the neg var should be twice as powerful and dangerous as a vorcha, but again, the game favors small and maneuverable, those are always good, large is always bad. its a joke that those ships are at the same level. but oh well. my ktinga beats both their TRIBBLE, proboly the biggest crime against ship logic of all. as far as the Kamarag goes, count on it to be the kdf's excelsior. the excelsior hardly makes sense too, at least the Kamarag is a few decades newer.
Yeah, adding a T3 to me is mind boggling. Leveling is just so fast in this game - outside of the person that might play an hour every week or two, what's the point of adding a T3 ship?
I suppose I could see them doing the 1k Zen to buy the console - keeping it separate so they can charge more overall for the combination of the T3 and Fleet (Modules) variants - while tossing out the free RA/VA ship.
Heh, guess it's hard to get passed over almost a year's arguing with all those Ambassador folks out there about where the ship would fit in and what's the point of Cryptic putting so much effort into it...meh.
I try not to think too much about how they have the Galaxy, Defiant, and Intrepid at the same level...I really try not to think about that, lol. It makes me want to go have a ciggy, walk around the block, and all that sort of thing. The way the game's set up - it would be like watching TNG with a Defiant or Intrepid, watching VOY with a Galaxy or Defiant, and watching DS9 with a Galaxy or Intrepid.
The Negh'var was the "flagship" before the Bortas...sure isn't treated that way. The Vo'quv is a "dread" and it sure isn't treated that way.
As for the Kamarag - they say prototypes were built in the mid-24th century. Kamarag was the Klingon Ambassador to the Federation in the late 23rd century. The K't'inga started service in the late 23rd century (a decade or so before Kamarag was Ambassador) and were still in service into the late 24th century. The Vor'cha started to take over at that point - around 100 years after the K't'inga was introduced. For a short period (<5 years), they were even the "flagship" until the Negh'var took over.
Bah, none of my rambling matters - we all know what's going to happen:
X Players are going to scream that they're OP.
Y Players are going to scream that they're UP.
Right?
it depends on if they TRIBBLE with us and give us non fleet ship level ships or not. the new kdf ship is certainly the missing link between the vorcha and ktinga. ktinga was around in the 2270s, the vorcha proboly a product of the 2350s, and the negvar 2370 or so. the Kamarag is proboly from about 2320 or 2330. so for it and the ambassador, its conceivable that they are about at the end of their shelf life, and by around 2409 would get their final overhaul. something like the excelsior, which was rotten on the vines in the 2370, just no excuse what so ever being in this game. the ktinga i could see being used for very limited roles, and a tier 1 ship, but nothing beyond that. the connie, god no, they havent built ships that size in that shape for 100 years.
Not sure the transwarp powers would be included but that would be nice too.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
The K't'inga entered service in the early 2270s.
The Vor'cha entered service in the mid-to-late 2360s.
The Negh'var entered service in the early 2370s.
Their little spiel on the Kamarag has it in service during the mid-24th century.
The Ambassador supposedly entered service around 2325, with the events of "Yesterday's Enterprise" taking place in 2344 (as far as the Ambassador side of things). They were still in service in 2367/2368 for the Klingon Civil War and were also even around in 2374 in a DS9 episode.
The K't'inga was still a frontline ship even during the Dominion War in the early 2370s. The Vor'cha and the Negh'var were still just starting out, so to speak...the K't'inga saw a lot of upgrades over that century - from flying against Connies, Excelsiors, etc, etc, etc.
To an extent, that's kind of what it feels like they may be trying to do with the Kamarag. They picked a name from a guy that was an Ambassador - they went with a period of time after which he would have been dead...and it's possible that the Kamarag was in service around the same time: 2325-late2350s? Not a very long time, eh? Maybe the Kamarag came before the Ambassador by a brief period...
...with both the Kamarag and Ambassador being replaced by the Vor'cha and Galaxy respectively because of jumps in technology/changing needs.
As each new "flagship" was introduced, the previous "flagship" became a more common ship, and the previous previous became more of a workhorse, etc, etc, etc.
On the Fed side, the Odyssey's the new flagship. So the Sovereign would become the more common ship and the Galaxy would become the workhorse. What's the Ambassador? Course, the same (only worse) could be said of the Excelsior...eh?
On the KDF side, the Bortas is the new flagship. The Negh'var becoming the more common ship and the Vor'cha the workhorse? (Heh, okay - not in STO). Here though, it would be the case of asking what does that mean the K't'inga is...? But, they're introducing a ship after the K't'inga...so bam, what's happening to the Kamarag and the K't'inga?
In a sense, it's dropping the K't'inga down to the Excelsior level. Well, given they added the Fleet Excelsior... yeah, the Kamarag and Ambassador as Fleet ships makes sense (in STO fashion).
Many of the vessels we see in the game, would have long ago been relegated to pseudo planetary defense - basically figurehead ships - showing a presence, so to speak. The Connie Refits...Enterprise-A...along with Mirandas and the rest...even there, it would be difficult to justify the expense of keeping them running in such a manner when they would have been replaced by newer Escorts that run with a lower TCO.
Hrmm, this seems to have stepped over way to the left of the discussion stats though...
...in looking at your versions vs. the Fleet Galaxy and Fleet Tor'Kaht - yeah, in that regard - can see them being along those lines.
Kamarag Science Cruiser
Crew: 1000
Hull: 35000
Shield Modifier: 1.2
Turn Rate: 10
Inertia Rating: 40
Weapons:
- Fore 3
- Aft 3
Consoles:
- Tac 3
- Eng 4
- Sci 3
Lt Tac
LCdr Eng
Ens Eng
Cmdr Sci
Lt Uni
CMDR Tac
LTC Eng
LT Sci
LT Tac
Ensign Universal
They could have developed a point of reference for them otherwise.
this sci ship and breen ship stuff is kinda bizarre, its gonna be a cruiser theres no question. you just got a sci ship and destroyer in the form of the temporal ships, its been quite a wile since a new cruiser was added. take a look at the ktinga and vorcha, its gonna be somewhere between those 2, with an unused yet station niche. i'll only believe stranger station setups on more alien designs.
Given that what is canon is dictated by appearing on screen, there is no way you can say this. :rolleyes:
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
As for what you're going to see with the Ambassador, it's fairly easy. Ambassador might maneuver closer to an Excelsior, have a lower hull than Galaxy, and a slightly different BOFF layout the Galaxy/Excelsior. Probably a special console, and some different skins (Yamaguchi, Zhukov,1701-C, etc). It is what it is.